The House

[ts919]

I have an initial hearing coming up here in a month... .currently my stbxw and I are still living under the same roof.  We own the house together, (both names on the deed and loan), married for 2 years, no children, I make 2/3's of the family income.  We have split finances, however, stbxw is now refusing to pay her portion of the bills.  She refuses to put the house on the market and refuses to move out.  I'm not sure what I can do from a legal standpoint - if I just move out (I have a son from a previous marriage that is with us 1/2 the time) and let the house go, other than probable foreclosure (she can't afford it on her own) are there any other consequences I'm not aware of?  My attorney advised that I stay put but I'm not sure how much longer I can take being under the same roof as her.  Other than the house and a couple of cars we have no assets - and we owe on all of those to begin with.  There is nothing to fight over except debt. 

I think I'm having one of those panic days right now

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[Free One]

Come up with a plan of what you want at initial hearing - do you want her to pay her bills (and how much is that), do you want her to move out, do you want to put the house on the market? Then ask your L to have the judge make it part of the temporary orders.

[ForeverDad]

I have an initial hearing coming up here in a month... .married for 2 years, no children, I make 2/3's of the family income.  We have split finances, however, stbxw is now refusing to pay her portion of the bills.  She refuses to put the house on the market and refuses to move out... .There is nothing to fight over except debt.

For a short marriage she probably could not expect significant support, at least not for long.  Perhaps it's just a sense of "I'll do whatever I want"?  You can't reason with her, the only option left is to counter her sense of entitlement or whatever with the real authority - the judge.

Long term there are 3 options: The house becomes hers, yours or is sold.  She could never afford the house, so that's not possible.  Likely it would be hard for you to afford the house, but even if you could, it may be hard to get her to sign off on the quit claim deed, so count that option as unlikely too.  So odds are it would be best to sell the house.  That's probably the best option to seek when before the judge.

However it is not that simple.  Likely she will tell the court she wants to stay in the house "until it is sold".  Learn from coffeeshop (among others), her most recent thread is below.  The last year or two were spent trying to get out from under a mortgage with her name on it.  Her ex wanted to stay in the house until he refinanced it.  She said he couldn't swing it, he said he could, court let him try.  Months passed, he never refinanced the mortgage yet stayed in the house.  Court agreed it had to be sold.  She said he wouldn't do it, he just was trying to stay longer, he said he would sell it, court let him try.  He eventually got a realtor, then wouldn't show the home and even sold off some of the property's assets.  Somewhere along the way she had to pay the mortgage because he stopped paying.  Finally after more than a year of delays she got the house, fixed it up and got it sold.

Property settlement was completed today. Property sold in September, after many delays and hearings the proceeds have been divided. This is it, I never have to deal with him again. He can never control me again, he can never abuse me again. I might always be afraid of him but he will NEVER control or hurt me again.

The jerk of judge made a very bad ruling. He gave me my down payment, the payments I made on the property after my N/BPD ex husband quite paying, gave me half of my expenses to bring the sewer & wells up to code, gave me half the electric bill then gave him all of the rest of the proceeds. We made a nice profit and he said that my ex gets the gain in the market because he was awarded the property in the divorce. Truth is he wanted the place and was told to get financing on the agreed price and he could have it. There was not intent to give it to him as part of the settlement.  I said fine.

My attorney asked for a moment and advised me not to take the grossly unfair ruling but to take the judge up on having an evidentry (sp) hearing so she could try to recoup some of my other expenses and make up for his bad ruling. I said NO, seal the deal. I am done, I want this finished, it is over. Afterwards my attorney said, it was probably a good idea to do this as this way he will see that he won and I will be safer in the future.

I am on cloud nine. I don't care how much money I have lost, thousands of dollars... .my life, no choice!

Although you may not have a scary ex, based on coffee's experience try your best to get her out of the house and into her own place such as an apartment (or not as good, you both out of the house) so it can be sold with the least amount of delay and obstruction.  If she is left in possession, expect delays and obstructions.  As it is, even if everything goes in your favor it still may take longer than you think for her to sign the required paperwork for sale and eventual closure.

What if she pleads with the court to remain in the house?  Use the fact that she's stopped financial support of the home's expenses.  Also that she is unlikely to have the financial resources to refinance the home, a necessity in order to get your name off the mortgage.

What if she pleads with the court to remain in the house until it is sold?  Inform the court that you are concerned if she has interim residency of the house she will delay the listing, preparation, showing or sale of the home.  And that would delay the divorce and make it vastly more complicated and expensive.

What if the court is willing to take it slow?  Work with your lawyer to develop a practical strategy that the court will accept as an adequate solution that limits the financial impact to both spouses.  Best to do that from the start.  Part of it can be that your spouse has already started withholding her money from supporting the marital assets and so she can use her withheld money to find her own residence.  However, what will also be needed is a signed quitclaim deed and perhaps signatures on other paperwork when the house is ready to be sold.  Look ahead on what is needed to avoid as much pain as possible.

[livednlearned]

Hire the best lawyer you can and nail down every loophole you can think of. Whatever you do, make sure everything has a consequence. If she does not do xyz by Day/Month/Year, then abc will happen. For everything. For example: By Date/Month/Year, she must show that she can refi the house and afford to stay there. If not, she must move out within 30 days. If she is not out, then she will be police escorted out of the house and her belongings will be delivered to such and such an address. Locks will be changed and she will be in contempt of court for returning to the house unannounced. If you have to file motions for contempt for any of these agreements not being met by her, she is responsible for your attorney's fees. If you are able to secure refi, then she must cooperate within 36 hours. If you sell the house, you will pick the realtor. Etc.

Super tight loopholes. Think of every possible way she can obstruct you. Then address it in writing with consequences. Make it easy for the judge to see that she agreed to xyz and abc so you aren't waiting around for the hem or haw.

Super. Tight. Loopholes. Get a lawyer who has a clue about BPD if you can. Make sure you read over the details like your life depended on it, because your ex is going to ignore every single part of it and you're going to be revolving through court like a merry go round.

Sorry -- going through this right now myself. The smallest, smallest, smallest things, he will obstruct, deny, thwart, upend, obscure, feign, dodge, duck, avoid, block. Doesn't matter if he loses every time in court, or costs him money, or wastes his time, or humiliates him, or makes himself look like an @ss. Doesn't matter. As long as he is negatively engaged, he feels great.

[ForeverDad]

Hire the best lawyer you can and nail down every loophole you can think of. Whatever you do, make sure everything has a consequence... .

Super tight loopholes. Think of every possible way she can obstruct you. Then address it in writing with consequences. Make it easy for the judge to see that she agreed to xyz and abc so you aren't waiting around for the hem or haw.

Super. Tight. Loopholes. Get a lawyer who has a clue about BPD if you can. Make sure you read over the details like your life depended on it, because your ex is going to ignore every single part of it and you're going to be revolving through court like a merry go round.

Sorry -- going through this right now myself. The smallest, smallest, smallest things, he will obstruct, deny, thwart, upend, obscure, feign, dodge, duck, avoid, block. Doesn't matter if he loses every time in court, or costs him money, or wastes his time, or humiliates him, or makes himself look like an @ss. Doesn't matter. As long as he is negatively engaged, he feels great.

Delay is your enemy and a pwBPD's tool.  Court doesn't care about delays ('continuances' to later dates) since it's just a job and it's seen as no big deal.  However, it's your life and sadly you're your own best advocate - if you are informed, educated, prepared and warned of traps and pitfalls along the way.  Even your polite niceness and sense of fairness can be used to sabotage you.  You wouldn't be inclined to do it to your spouse but we here have found out the hard way that a disordered spouse won't reciprocate your normal common sense.

Ponder this truism... .The misbehaving spouse is not likely to face consequences and the properly behaving spouse is not likely to get credit.

View this as unwinding the marriage, keep it businesslike as much as possible.

Imagine this conversation with your lawyer:

Lawyer: Her lawyer said she's asking for the house.

You:     She can't afford it, not for long.  She's already stopped paying her share of the bills.  It was only a 2 year marriage, she should be making plans not for her post-marriage life.

Lawyer: Her lawyer said she wants to live in the house until the divorce is final.

You:     And that is when... .?  Next year?  The year after?  I won't pay for her to live there for who knows how long.  What are her consequences if she stops paying the mortgage, utilities, home insurance, etc?  Sure, the court can make an order stating she has to pay them but what if she doesn't?  We must have the consequences stated up front and clearly, without wiggle room, without that it could be months before we get the court's attention.

Lawyer: Well we usually don't state consequences except stating failure is Contempt of Court and we'd have to go back to court to state our case and after ex gets a few continuances to later hearing dates we will find out what consequences, if any, the court will determine.

You:     Let's prepare for every contingency so there's less delay and less uncertainty what and when the consequences occur.

Lawyer: That's unusual.  Most cases don't need that level of preparedness.

You:     This may be a protracted high conflict case.  I don't want to realize six months from now, with little progress made toward completing the divorce, that from the very start I/we should have been more proactive in anticipating sabotage and more proactive in plugging the usual and unusual loopholes.

Lawyer: Well, if you're that concerned... .

You:     I am.  I've been burned badly.  As the old saying goes, Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  That's a phrase I learned years ago from Scotty on the Starship Enterprise.

Lawyer: Well, I doubt the judge will want to do all you want.  Judges often don't want a winner and a loser, they wants both sides to feel like losers.

You:     So let's make the best case for a fair but structured unwinding of the finances, debts and assets with a minimum of delays.  Delay is my enemy and I suspect one of my soon-to-be ex's primary tactics, along with obstruction, noncompliance and nonresponse.

Do you see my point?  A lawyer may not be as adamant for your welfare as you are.  So be assertive, without going too far of course.