husband seems to make making matters worse

[2girls3canines]

Morning All,

I am sitting here with tears rolling down my face… I have been trying to set some boundaries for myself, and have been hit straight on with animosity from both my BPD DD (17) and husband. And I am not sure what to do.

He is a great guy and great provider. A military man who works long hard hours. I have for the most part, "managed" our BPD daughter almost exclusively. While I want to believe he tries, I am seeing that he really is just at a point that he doesn't want to be bothered with hearing all of her drama, her meltdowns, her BPD life... Whenever I try to vent, or even tell him what some of the issues are, or call him when I am in a crisis with her, he usually responds "so what do you want me to do?" (implying that I need to take care of it)

DD had another meltdown 2 days ago in the bank parking lot. Screaming, ranting, accusing, refusing to get out of the drivers seat… on and on and on... I called my husband as I was standing out in the cold, and all he could manage was a loud sigh and a "what am I supposed to do about it"

I finally got her home. She was still mad, so he set out to try to "smooth things over" - which means let her do whatever she wants…

Yesterday, I "took the day off". I told him ahead of time I was not going to be available for either of them and he would have to manage her... I took the day off and he did not manage her… at 7 last night, he had not even spoken to her since she texted him asking for a ride home from school… He was still at work and running errands after work... Thankfully she had gotten home and was safe.

So this morning, I told him what was on her calendar as far as school, sports, outstanding college app stuff, etc… I told him I was not going interact with DD as long as she was disrespectful and I was taking a break from "managing" her when I got attitude from her and ambivalence from him…

So, nice guy that he is, went and told DD that I wasn't going to help her anymore with college, school or cheer…(I had never said that when I was doing it all and he didn't participate)

Now they are both angry at me and are feeding off of each other. I just needed to take up for myself and not allow either of them to continue to complain about or criticize my efforts. Was that wrong?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time communicating with everyone.  It's so hard feeling like you're the person who has to do everything.  I wish I could tell you that there is an easy solution. I sure understand what you're going through.  I wonder if you could do a dearman to start a conversation with him.

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

Take some time for yourself.  If he can't be there to step in then just breath and clean up whatever mess there is to clean up later.

[lbjnltx]

Hi 2girls,

I can identify with the situation you are in, I think it is pretty typical in families that have children with BPD.  

Unless and until your husband learns some skills that are helpful for your d, skills that are helpful for you... .he will feel helpless.  Feeling helpless is a scary feeling and one most men avoid feeling.  :)addy's have a very difficult time accepting that their child has a disorder, it is ego involved.

Here is a very simple concept that is difficult to wrap our heads around:

Validate him.

Use I feel I need statements so he can validate you.

Validate your daughters feelings.

Encourage her to use I feel I need statements so he can validate her too.


In other words give and model what you each need to receive.  We all need to be heard and understood, we all need to know our feelings matter.

lbjnltx

[six]

hi 2girls.

sorry for what you are going thru

I have found that men think they are supposed to solve the problem and fix things (women too sometimes)

when you call your husband in a midst of a crisis, I think you need to be clear with yourself about what are you asking from him.  do you want to vent? do you want him to speak to dd? do you want him to come up with a plan for how you should get home with dd having a meltdown? once you are clear with yourself then you can tell dh what you need. perhaps you just need him to understand what you re going thru so that he can validate you and express his care and concern for you.

similarly when you tell him I am not going to be involved in DD's stuff, are  you implying that he should step up and take care of all the things that you usually do? it is possible that so much involvement with her activities is not the way he wants to parent her.  it was hard for me to realize that the involvement I had with my kids was not always the healthiest thing for them.  my Dh's ability to detach to some extent was sometimes a better parenting model. 

it sounds like you and dh need to have a clear conversation when you are not in the midst of crisis about the roles that you each can play with dd and how you can be supportive of each other.  BPD is very hard on parents and hard on marriage.  I would try to put into place protections for the two of you (parents) as  you travel this road together

wishing you peace

6

[qcarolr]

Yes, my dh gets stuck in wanting things to just 'get better', he is feeling helpless that he makes things worse (though this is very unconsious, though improving), and trying to just step out and leave it up to him has never worked.

First, I have needed to learn the TOOLS on the side bar to the right, and practice them daily. Some days I do better than others. I need to be kind to myself - I am human - I can go back and make repairs to my relationships with both dh and my Dd27 (and my gd8 that we are raising).

I have to make some time for myself each day - take the best care of myself I can. If I am depressed, exhausted, emotional, dysregulated everyone around me gets more dyregulated too. I suffer from "THis is SO UNFAIR" often. I want to just drive away and not come back. So I can accept that these feelings are real, and I am able to not take any negative actions.

As I have gained better skill and access to the tools, it is amazing how my family members have shifted their thinking/feeling/actions. My dh and I have a much better relationship - this takes effort. My dh has gotten better at listening to me as I am better at listening to him.

There are many couples here that have participated in family group sponsored by NEABPD called "Family Connection". My dh would never agree to this. So it is left to me to change myself first - take care of my own needs. And hope for others to respond to this -- and accept it is not about me when they do not change.

The other part - it sounds like there is a lot of pressure on your D right now. Going away from the known environment of home, not matter how chaotic, is terrifying. She needs help in managing. Is she in any kind of therapy? She can benefit from learning some new tools for herself. DBT is a great start if she is willing.

Let us know how things are going. We understand - we are good listeners. Come here to vent -- it has worked so much better than ranting to my dh.

qcr

[Mish66]

Wow this is like reading about my family. My dh is military too and has the attitude I just don't care anymore, we can't control her. My dd15 is so disrespectful and rude to us all the time. She self medicates with weed and refuses medication and counselling.  Feels like it will never get better.  Only good thing is that she has a part time job and we get 6 hours respite care while she is there.  It is so exhausting and destructive, depressing, sad and overwhelming having a child with BPD.  I really can't see anything changing in our lives until she wants to change and will accept help.  We still have 3 other great, easy kids and our marriage to think of

[Bonus mom]

I'd like to comment on what came to mind reading your post: so much of what you've written sounds as though you are (very understandably!) personally struggling with your ability to handle all you have taken on. Maybe if you could give yourself permission to let go of being the one to handle everything, give yourself permission to step back - it sounds as though you might feel it's all up to you.  If that is the case, remember that it is not fair to yourself - you can't and shouldn't be expected to be the answer to all your family's needs.  Just something I thought while reading your post.

[Gidget]

My husband also seems to be making it worse. I can't blame him he also has been thru a lot. He has been their for her since 13yrs old. She is now adult when her father was not. Her last attack on me and the things she has said about him had literally broke the family. For the last 3yrs we have barely spoken my husband has not spoken to her at all.

Over the last three years when we have been at our Grandkids games or functions and he has stayed away from her any attempts between me and her to start speaking again were halted because she would punish me because of him ignoring her. He had just reached the end of his rope. He felt she was manipulative controlling selfish used us and abused us. I could understand how he feel he was there for both her and her husband and my grandchildren. Built their addition on there house ran when she called him sent them on vacations and paid for them. All the attempts stop with his rejection.

He has slowly begun to understand about this I keep trying to explain to him how she feels I talk about the articles I have read. He seems to be softening a bit he is actually very stubborn.  I started to go to the kids games alone. I feel this isn't good I am trying to keep as much normalcy if front of the kids as possible. This has affected the kids they were used to us being with them all the time. We watched are grandchildren for 5 years when they were first born. This breaks my heart also I feel the kids look at me differently like I am the one to blame. They don't understand. The older one I believe can see some things she will confide in us. I never speak about the things with them only answer what I feel is ok that won't let to much info out.

She recently told me her Mom doesn't answer the phone when I call and will run around to try and find one of them. I knew she did this I had told her that this was not good to do in front of the kids and that should not have to see this. Thank God she has not taken the kids away from me yet this is the first time in 3 years they all will be together at my house for a sleep over with us.

I am trying very hard to understand his feelings he feels our marriage was almost destroyed by all we have gone thru in the last 21years. I just wish he would take what the counselor said to us which was to try and not take this personally it is not about us. Sometimes I just don't know. I have put my life under a microscope  for the last 21yrs and looked at every incident to see if I could have done things differently or how I could have hurt her. I can't even remember calling her a Jerk the things just didn't happen as she says they did

I am starting though to understand her feelings where she took everything as a personal rejection or an attack. I would cringed when I had to tell her something as simple as the baby was pulling her ear and she may have a ear infection. Crazy I would spend the day worring about something as simple as that for fear she would get nasty or take it as a personal attack on her. I realize how I have just become so emotionally drained 

[Tightrope walker]

2girls3canines

   I think that having a mentally ill child puts tremendous stress on a relationship.  My H wanted to fix my D in the early stages of her illness: going to see her everyday when she was hospitalized, looking for the right word to make things better, etc.   When she worsened, he basically gave up.  No he never read any books, articles or tried to attend the countless therapy sessions.  I have been the one to do it all.

  As Bonus Mom states:

If that is the case, remember that it is not fair to yourself - you can't and shouldn't be expected to be the answer to all your family's needs

  This is a difficult action to take.  Yes, I use the tools and I find an improvement.  What I struggle with is that I may give validation to my spouse, but do not receive the same back.  Therefore, I have learned to receive validation from others.  I also give myself the gift of validation. 

             Tightrope Walker

[jellibeans]

I think this is very common in families. My husband really struggles when it comes to dealing with my dd16. He doesn't read any of the books I have and is very relutant to go to family therapy. He really is the kind of person that likes to put his head in the sand and I have just come to accept that to some degree. I know I have changed and my relationship with our dd16 has improved a geat deal. It is unfortunate that things between my daughter and my husband have not but I really can't control either one of them... .I can only control my self. I use to call my husband for help when things got out of control but I find that the skills I have learned have meant that things are just not as crazy at our home. I have learned how to defuse the conflict and not have it escalate. When you have better skills you will not need your husband's help. Don't allow her to pit you against each other. Have a united front. 2girls you can't expect change by threats and running away although that is exactully what I wanted to do so many times. Have you read Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr? This is a great book... .I have read many but this is the one I pick up when I am lost. Don't get discouraged... .things will get better but only if you try and learn new ways to deal with the both of them. Focus on yourself... .take care of yourself... .it is a long road but things will get better.

[qcarolr]

I am grateful for a shift in my connections with my dh. I realize that, well, he is human too. And he is a male human at that. And his brain really is wired a little different than mine. And that my more emotionally connected patterns are my way, and his more reserved or sacarstic ways are his ways. As I have come out of a deep dark place he is still here for me and our girls (DD27 and gd8). As I am better able to sit with him and really listen after more quietly sharing my deepest fears about life -- well he has some good suggestions. And sometimes he is just there to listen with his best ability. This is about 20-30 minutes, then he reminds me that he has taken in all he can. I can keep talking if I choose. I don't get angry at this anymore. I am grateful for his time.

And he has shared more openly with me some of his deepest fears and concerns about his life. With his mom reaching the end stage time with Alzhiemers, with our girls that he cannot fix, with his concerns at 63 raising a young child and getting fatigued and looking at wanting to cut back to part time work in a couple of years. And accepting that we will be involved with DD in some way for her whole life. Turning our back - total detachment - it did not work out for us. Too much pain. And DD is responding to our love, at least for now.

I remind myself that I believe -- God will provide what I need when I need it. He will work all things for good -- I just don't get to see how this will all work out until the next moment comes. And the more tools I can learn while I wait ----

Dh and I need each other. And we need others so we don't lean too heavily on each other. And we are finding ways to reach out for this support, each in our own ways. Then we are stronger in facing the hard parts of our days.

qcr

This is trying to live with dh in a relationship based on autonomy and interdependence -- secure attachment with my 'self' and in my r/s with him. Learned this language from Daniel Hughes in "8 Keys to Building Your Best Relationships".

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

V. Porr says in her paragraph on parental grief that as we struggle with the grief over our child's mental illness,

as spouses we may not be able to support each other well in that. Because the pain that we see our spouse go through adds to our own... .And in that we may be loosing the support of the person who's been able to be there for us on other occasions.

It is a painful challenge. Lbjnltx's response is very helpful I think.

The concept of validation sometimes is not easy for men to grasp at first. They tend to be oriented to the problem-solving and feel helpless when they don't know how to 'fix' the situation.

The "I feel, I need" approach is great, because it lets them know how you feel, and it also lets them know what you want/need - they don't have to guess and feel inadequate.

How are you doing? Are things calming down at your household a bit?

[qcarolr]

Here is a very simple concept that is difficult to wrap our heads around:

Validate him.

Use I feel I need statements so he can validate you.

Validate your daughters feelings.

Encourage her to use I feel I need statements so he can validate her too.

In other words give and model what you each need to receive.  We all need to be heard and understood, we all need to know our feelings matter.

Validate him. This is really hard when he is being very invalidating with either DD27 or gd8. So hard for me to respond to him modeling this in front of one of the girls. So I do my best validate the child, support the child, in front of dh. And sometimes I try to get him to just be quiet and leave the room.

This conflict between us in front of gd or DD really undoes me and my desire to regulate the situation. Maybe I need to accept that maybe I am the one to leave the situation or find a mindful way to sit in the situation quietly. What is in the best interest of the child in this situation?

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

Here is a very simple concept that is difficult to wrap our heads around:

Validate him.

Use I feel I need statements so he can validate you.

Validate your daughters feelings.

Encourage her to use I feel I need statements so he can validate her too.

In other words give and model what you each need to receive.  We all need to be heard and understood, we all need to know our feelings matter.

Validate him. This is really hard when he is being very invalidating with either DD27 or gd8. So hard for me to respond to him modeling this in front of one of the girls. So I do my best validate the child, support the child, in front of dh. And sometimes I try to get him to just be quiet and leave the room.

This conflict between us in front of gd or DD really undoes me and my desire to regulate the situation. Maybe I need to accept that maybe I am the one to leave the situation or find a mindful way to sit in the situation quietly. What is in the best interest of the child in this situation?

I think each of lbj's suggestions has its own proper timing.

What you describe sounds like conflict situations in approaching your girls... .Have you considered that you trying to protect your girls from his statements may feel invalidating to HIM, and thus perpetuating the conflict?

I know that you love him and want the best for everyone... .Is it possible though, that he might feel like your validating statements to the girls are a put down of him, undermining him, humiliating him? If that is the case, how motivated is he likely to be to come to you and try to change?

[qcarolr]

pessio -I do appreciate your comments. I believe reading this actually helped shift me to lean more on dh with an open heart - being vulnerable. He, in turn, has been open-hearted with me. Sharing his deepest fears and accepting that he cannot 'fix' every situation in our family.

I realize that dh is a man that instinctively lives in the moment. Maybe this is why he has such a deep connection to our doggies.  And they give such unconditional love back to him. Gd also gets this from him. So in seeing this I can realize that he gives this to me as well. This is said with complete respect for dh. Does this make any sense?

This morning as we shared coffee together before he goes to work, he talked about how he feels gd's behaviors are intentional to get his anger going. I stopped him. I gently said "Stop". That I did not believe this. Reminded him that she only wants to please us. These behaviors are more about her feeling bad about her lack of self-control. We can see how hard she is on herself when we get angry with her in return. She needs us to sit quietly nearby telling her that we love her, that we feel '_____hit' when she acts out with these behaviors. Invite her to come by us. And she does - she snuggles up and holds my hand after she gets more calm.

His reply "Hmmm. I need to come downstairs and sit with her instead of yelling from across the house. WOW, he acknowledged that he yells too!

I can see that lbj's advice is so good when I am able to practice validation. The formula works: I feelhit_ when youhit__ I need_____. It works with everyone.

qcr