Changes at the last minute

[Stuffie]

I think things like this, where dBPDex has a sliver of control, frustrate me the most. Because once he has an ounce of control, he exploits it.

He takes our son one day a week from 10-2. I work normal hours, 8-5, so I cannot participate in the pick ups and drop offs. My mom watches my son and meets my ex at the location that he chose for exchanges, at the times that he chose as well. He is either insanely late, by an hour or more without warning, or he pulls stunts like he did today.

He texted me as soon as he picked up our son and said that he is suddenly not comfortable meeting my mother for exchanges and it has to be me or he isn't giving our son back until he deems fit. Also, that I have to call him to confirm that I will be there for pick up because he no longer receives my text messages. He has had a vendetta against my mother since she stopped listening to his lies and started ignoring his calls. He used to go to my parent's home and sit down with them, trying to convince them I was basically the anti christ and they needed to cut off all emotional support. My parents shut him out and ignored everything he said, they see me every single day and knew exactly what was going on.

Now that he has our son in his care, I have to take off work at 2 to go get him. I wish I could pick him up, hand him off to my mom and come back to work but with as late as he has been recently, I don't trust him to even show up before 5 pm to return our child.

I don't know what to do. I really don't. It seems like he will use every opportunity to exploit our son and use him to manipulate and control me. I don't have the money to really talk to a counselor anymore, I've burnt so much of it going in and out of court. I know what he wants, he wants to make this so inconvenient that I break down and stop taking our son to the pick ups. Even if I give him a deadline and say, "I will wait 30 minutes and if you do not give me warning that you will be late or that you aren't coming then I'm leaving." If I do that then he throws a huge fit, calls the police when he does finally arrive and if I'm not there he files a report claiming I'm refusing to share custody.

I'm at a loss. I am so stressed out every time we have to do a pick up. He has an overnight coming up this weekend and it sickens me to think how he will intentionally try to make it difficult.

[DreamGirl]

Do you have a court-appointed supervised exchange facility in your area?

There, it wouldn't matter who was doing the drop off/pick ups.

There, if he was late - it could and would be used against him - anything over 10 minutes is a documentable offense.

There, they would be the liason between you and him so that you wouldn't have to talk to him (in essence keeping the conflict to a minimum).

[Stuffie]

Do you have a court-appointed supervised exchange facility in your area?

There, it wouldn't matter who was doing the drop off/pick ups.

There, if he was late - it could and would be used against him - anything over 10 minutes is a documentable offense.

There, they would be the liason between you and him so that you wouldn't have to talk to him (in essence keeping the conflict to a minimum).

I didn't even know those existed! I'll look into it! :D

[DreamGirl]

I didn't even know those existed! I'll look into it! :D

If you enter "supervised exchanges" and your city/area into your internet's search engine, you should see if there is any available where you live. I've volunteered for a program in my local area, and it is really helpful for these kinds of situations.

It's a win/win really.  

[Matt]

Yeah, it sounds like you need a lot of structure right now - everything established in a court order.

Do you have a court order in place, saying who has the child when?  If not, you can file a motion like that and the court will probably approve it, or maybe there will be a hearing if the other party opposes it.

You can say, "We agreed to the schedule by e-mail - those e-mails are attached.  Child with father each Sunday from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. and with Mother the rest of the time.  Exchanges at [address].  We did not specify who would be present at exchanges but it is often my mother because I am working those times."

Be very, very specific about everything - others here can help by talking through what seems to work best.  Once it becomes a court order, then stick to it exactly, and if the other party doesn't comply with it, you file a motion asking that he be cited for contempt of court - not to be too picky (like if he's 1 minute late) but if he is causing problems - that's what the court order is for, to minimize the conflict.

[ForeverDad]

And if he's late to an exchange, you or your mother probably don't need to wait endlessly until he shows up.  In my county there's a 30 minute window for exchanges, miss that without a call and a valid reason for the delay then the exchange gets cancelled.  Find out what time frame your county sets as adequate.  Of course, it would work for you now but in time he might decide to try to use any delay you have against you when it is time for your child's return.

[david]

We have week on / week off during the summer. Wednesday is the changeover day. I pick the boys up at 9 am on my time. I am plus or minus 5 minutes, This has been for the last three years. Ex picks the boys up at 10 am. The soonest she has been at the pickup is 33 minutes past 10 am. The longest has been over three hours. I stopped counting after three hours. To be fair that was only one time. This has also been for the last three years. Our boys made a gambling game of it with an over/under time. I never made an issue of it because I have other concerns and the boys are welcome to stay with me all the time if she wants. All she is doing is pushing them further away by her actions. They are 15 and 10 now. When they were younger they would not have noticed but now they do. It is what it is. Someone on this site once said, "negative engagement is still engagement." I don't engage over this. Yes it can be frustrating but I now expect it and have learned to adjust. Just this summer I really needed her to be on time. I emailed her asking approximately what time she would be picking up the boys. That was the first time in three years she was on time. She is very dependable when things are presented the right way. 

[Matt]

And if he's late to an exchange, you or your mother probably don't need to wait endlessly until he shows up.  In my county there's a 30 minute window for exchanges, miss that without a call and a valid reason for the delay then the exchange gets cancelled.  Find out what time frame your county sets as adequate.  Of course, it would work for you now but in time he might decide to try to use any delay you have against you when it is time for your child's return.

Yeah, this should be specified in the court order very clearly.

If the distances aren't too big, even ten minutes might be reasonable - if he doesn't show up and doesn't call, then you keep the kids.

On the other side, if he has the kids and doesn't show up, you call the police and show them the court order, and get their help to track him down.  And file a motion with the court, every time it happens, so he knows that the court order means what it says.  (The judge might give him a pass the first time, or even several times, but you keep filing motions until the court has had enough and cites him.)

This is what court orders are good for - to provide structure to the relationship so things will work OK without continuing conflict.

[Stuffie]

And if he's late to an exchange, you or your mother probably don't need to wait endlessly until he shows up.  In my county there's a 30 minute window for exchanges, miss that without a call and a valid reason for the delay then the exchange gets cancelled.  Find out what time frame your county sets as adequate.  Of course, it would work for you now but in time he might decide to try to use any delay you have against you when it is time for your child's return.

Yeah, this should be specified in the court order very clearly.

If the distances aren't too big, even ten minutes might be reasonable - if he doesn't show up and doesn't call, then you keep the kids.

On the other side, if he has the kids and doesn't show up, you call the police and show them the court order, and get their help to track him down.  And file a motion with the court, every time it happens, so he knows that the court order means what it says.  (The judge might give him a pass the first time, or even several times, but you keep filing motions until the court has had enough and cites him.)

This is what court orders are good for - to provide structure to the relationship so things will work OK without continuing conflict.

Thanks for all of the advice! It's very helpful. I've thought very similar things about my son eventually resenting my ex for his inability to show up and be accountable.

As far as him always being late, he said yesterday that he thinks it will give him an advantage in court. Which I don't understand at all. He keeps asking for week on week off, our son is only 15 months old, and since my ex has moved 4 times in the last year, including a stint where he moved in with his ex wife for several weeks, I have denied those requests. We do have a current order in place but it's very vague. The times are outlined but that's it.

[Matt]

We do have a current order in place but it's very vague. The times are outlined but that's it.

But that's good, because it's a starting point - you don't have to start from a blank piece of paper.  You can file a motion asking for the existing order to be modified, and say the words you want added, and where, and give your reasons why.  Make sure the reasons are based on what is best for the child:

"In order to carry out the court's order for shared custody, and make sure Child is with each parent the times given in the court order, I am asking that paragraph X be amended to be more specific.  After the first sentence, add, 'Blah blah blah.'"  Make sure to include what will happen if each parent is late, and make sure to say that your mother may handle the exchanges at times.

[ForeverDad]

As far as him always being late, he said yesterday that he thinks it will give him an advantage in court. Which I don't understand at all.

And I doubt the court would understand it either.  It may not give him consequences for it, but it's doubtful tardiness for the sake of tardiness would be rewarded.

He keeps asking for week on week off, our son is only 15 months old, and since my ex has moved 4 times in the last year, including a stint where he moved in with his ex wife for several weeks, I have denied those requests. We do have a current order in place but it's very vague. The times are outlined but that's it.

Stick to the order.  If you have majority time, DO NOT gift it away.  Usually majority time signifies custodial parent.  Being "nice" and "gifting" him equal time could blur that clarity.

My story about alternate weeks... .When my son was nearly six and we were about to make a settlement for Shared Parenting with equal time, I was wanting alternating weeks since our exchanges fomented confrontations and conflict from my ex.  The Custody Evaluator is a child psychologist and he quickly stated, Don't do alternate weeks before age ten.  He was firm about that and he recommended 2/2/5/5 if we did equal time.  Some 6 years later, son is nearly 12 and we're still doing the 2/2/5/5 schedule.  (That schedule is: one parent gets the first two overnights of the week, the other parent gets the second two overnights of the week and then the three-overnight weekends are alternated.  With that schedule the child is never more than 5 days away, except for holidays and vacations.)

So don't even consider his idea of alternate weeks.  That's too log for your child to be away from you.  Does your county have a schedule for young children?  In my county children under 3 get a short alternate weekend with a couple visits in between.  From 3 onward it's a longer alternate weekend and one visit in between.

So if you already have majority time, don't even think about alternating weeks for another decade and try to avoid equal time for as many years as you can.

Beware of being too fair, too nice, too whatever.  If he claims you're mean, unreasonable or whatever, who cares?  Just do what is best for your child (and you).  And put specifics and teeth into the order.  Many orders have vagueness built in since the courts expect most parents will cooperate.  Well, not our sort of cases, sadly.  On the other hand, beware of making some terms too rigid, often what applies to one parent applies to both.  So ponder the things you want to tighten up, could he use them against you to make your life more difficult?

[Stuffie]

As far as him always being late, he said yesterday that he thinks it will give him an advantage in court. Which I don't understand at all.

And I doubt the court would understand it either.  It may not give him consequences for it, but it's doubtful tardiness for the sake of tardiness would be rewarded.

He keeps asking for week on week off, our son is only 15 months old, and since my ex has moved 4 times in the last year, including a stint where he moved in with his ex wife for several weeks, I have denied those requests. We do have a current order in place but it's very vague. The times are outlined but that's it.

Stick to the order.  If you have majority time, DO NOT gift it away.  Usually majority time signifies custodial parent.  Being "nice" and "gifting" him equal time could blur that clarity.

My story about alternate weeks... .When my son was nearly six and we were about to make a settlement for Shared Parenting with equal time, I was wanting alternating weeks since our exchanges fomented confrontations and conflict from my ex.  The Custody Evaluator is a child psychologist and he quickly stated, Don't do alternate weeks before age ten.  He was firm about that and he recommended 2/2/5/5 if we did equal time.  Some 6 years later, son is nearly 12 and we're still doing the 2/2/5/5 schedule.  (That schedule is: one parent gets the first two overnights of the week, the other parent gets the second two overnights of the week and then the three-overnight weekends are alternated.  With that schedule the child is never more than 5 days away, except for holidays and vacations.)

So don't even consider his idea of alternate weeks.  That's too log for your child to be away from you.  Does your county have a schedule for young children?  In my county children under 3 get a short alternate weekend with a couple visits in between.  From 3 onward it's a longer alternate weekend and one visit in between.

So if you already have majority time, don't even think about alternating weeks for another decade and try to avoid equal time for as many years as you can.

Beware of being too fair, too nice, too whatever.  If he claims you're mean, unreasonable or whatever, who cares?  Just do what is best for your child (and you).  And put specifics and teeth into the order.  Many orders have vagueness built in since the courts expect most parents will cooperate.  Well, not our sort of cases, sadly.  On the other hand, beware of making some terms too rigid, often what applies to one parent applies to both.  So ponder the things you want to tighten up, could he use them against you to make your life more difficult?

Thanks for this! My ex has a very chaotic home life and that scares me. I don't like my son being exposed to it for the limited amount of time that he currently is, let alone for two weeks a month. My ex has moved several times in the last year, including into his ex wife's home for several weeks before being put into a mental institution for about 10 days. He currently lives in a one bedroom loft. When he has our son and his daughter from a previous marriage, he takes him to his ex's house and they stay the night there since she has space for them. I can't imagine how confusing this would be to grow up in for our baby.

As far as things being used against me, I can't think of any stipulations I would put on him that I wouldn't be able to adhere to. The being on time is the biggest thing and punctuality is in my blood . I constantly think about how my son would feel if I were supposed to pick him up at a certain time and I made excuses, was late or denied him access to his father. I don't want him to suffer in any way so I make every effort to try to do what would be right, if both of his parents were functioning adults anyway.

I feel like I'm the crazy one sometimes, honestly. The constant documenting, stressing over whether or not he will bring our son back, if he will show up at all, his harassment of me and my SO, even him claiming that I'm the one that is acting irrationally, it all takes such a huge toll. I feel like my life is still consumed by him even though we aren't together.

Anyway... thanks for the advice!

[Matt]

Thanks for this! My ex has a very chaotic home life and that scares me. I don't like my son being exposed to it for the limited amount of time that he currently is, let alone for two weeks a month. My ex has moved several times in the last year, including into his ex wife's home for several weeks before being put into a mental institution for about 10 days. He currently lives in a one bedroom loft. When he has our son and his daughter from a previous marriage, he takes him to his ex's house and they stay the night there since she has space for them. I can't imagine how confusing this would be to grow up in for our baby.

As far as things being used against me, I can't think of any stipulations I would put on him that I wouldn't be able to adhere to. The being on time is the biggest thing and punctuality is in my blood . I constantly think about how my son would feel if I were supposed to pick him up at a certain time and I made excuses, was late or denied him access to his father. I don't want him to suffer in any way so I make every effort to try to do what would be right, if both of his parents were functioning adults anyway.

I feel like I'm the crazy one sometimes, honestly. The constant documenting, stressing over whether or not he will bring our son back, if he will show up at all, his harassment of me and my SO, even him claiming that I'm the one that is acting irrationally, it all takes such a huge toll. I feel like my life is still consumed by him even though we aren't together.

Yeah, "chaos" is how dealing with someone with BPD is often described - you never know what to expect.

I think it's important how you present this issue to the court.  It's OK to give some examples, but not too many - you can say, "Those are a couple of examples but there are a lot more."  Talk about the impact on you but mostly on the child - "It's really hard for me to deal with and I'm very concerned about how this chaos might affect Child."

Ask for what you think will be best, but be open to alternative solutions, if the other side should offer something that is practical.  But if they offer something that you don't think will work, make sure to say so, and say why;  pretty often we agree to things to be agreeable when we know they won't work.  If you're in a position where you are getting pushed into something you don't think will work, you can ask for a few minutes to think, or talk with your attorney, to figure out the best way to explain why you don't think it will work.  "I'm open to ideas, but what Mr. Ex has proposed I don't think will work well for Child, because... .".

It's good you are aware of your own tendency to like things very orderly.  Make sure the court sees you as flexible and open to ideas, and at the same time watch out for "solutions" that you know won't work.

[Stuffie]

Thanks for this! My ex has a very chaotic home life and that scares me. I don't like my son being exposed to it for the limited amount of time that he currently is, let alone for two weeks a month. My ex has moved several times in the last year, including into his ex wife's home for several weeks before being put into a mental institution for about 10 days. He currently lives in a one bedroom loft. When he has our son and his daughter from a previous marriage, he takes him to his ex's house and they stay the night there since she has space for them. I can't imagine how confusing this would be to grow up in for our baby.

As far as things being used against me, I can't think of any stipulations I would put on him that I wouldn't be able to adhere to. The being on time is the biggest thing and punctuality is in my blood . I constantly think about how my son would feel if I were supposed to pick him up at a certain time and I made excuses, was late or denied him access to his father. I don't want him to suffer in any way so I make every effort to try to do what would be right, if both of his parents were functioning adults anyway.

I feel like I'm the crazy one sometimes, honestly. The constant documenting, stressing over whether or not he will bring our son back, if he will show up at all, his harassment of me and my SO, even him claiming that I'm the one that is acting irrationally, it all takes such a huge toll. I feel like my life is still consumed by him even though we aren't together.

Yeah, "chaos" is how dealing with someone with BPD is often described - you never know what to expect.

I think it's important how you present this issue to the court.  It's OK to give some examples, but not too many - you can say, "Those are a couple of examples but there are a lot more."  Talk about the impact on you but mostly on the child - "It's really hard for me to deal with and I'm very concerned about how this chaos might affect Child."

Ask for what you think will be best, but be open to alternative solutions, if the other side should offer something that is practical.  But if they offer something that you don't think will work, make sure to say so, and say why;  pretty often we agree to things to be agreeable when we know they won't work.  If you're in a position where you are getting pushed into something you don't think will work, you can ask for a few minutes to think, or talk with your attorney, to figure out the best way to explain why you don't think it will work.  "I'm open to ideas, but what Mr. Ex has proposed I don't think will work well for Child, because... .".

It's good you are aware of your own tendency to like things very orderly.  Make sure the court sees you as flexible and open to ideas, and at the same time watch out for "solutions" that you know won't work.

I'm very unsure of what to expect when we go to court so this helps a lot! He is a high functioning BPD individual and makes a good first impression most of the time. Our current parenting plan has only been in affect for about 6 months and he has never adhered to it. For a few months he was even living out of state and did not see our son unless I made the 3 hour trip so he could spend time with him.

Our first agreement was put together outside of court and it is exactly what my ex requested, to the letter. I was unable to go to court to make it official and since we were getting along so well, I trusted him to just go and get it signed. He did so and now wants to change EVERYTHING because I refuse to get back together with him. I know I can't really prove that as his reasoning and an outside party will view it as him just wanting more time with his child. That just isn't the case. He can't be on time to get his son now, I doubt that will change if he is granted more time on paper. He is very aware of my anxiety and mistrust of him and he likes egging me on when he has our son in his care. Like being 90 minutes late returning him to me for no reason and then calling me and demanding to know why I'm not still at our designated meeting place to get our child, then being adamant that if I'm not there within 5 minutes then he is leaving and I'm not getting my child back. How insane is that? It's so stressful and I get so emotional when he uses our son against me.

[Stuffie]

Thanks for this! My ex has a very chaotic home life and that scares me. I don't like my son being exposed to it for the limited amount of time that he currently is, let alone for two weeks a month. My ex has moved several times in the last year, including into his ex wife's home for several weeks before being put into a mental institution for about 10 days. He currently lives in a one bedroom loft. When he has our son and his daughter from a previous marriage, he takes him to his ex's house and they stay the night there since she has space for them. I can't imagine how confusing this would be to grow up in for our baby.

As far as things being used against me, I can't think of any stipulations I would put on him that I wouldn't be able to adhere to. The being on time is the biggest thing and punctuality is in my blood . I constantly think about how my son would feel if I were supposed to pick him up at a certain time and I made excuses, was late or denied him access to his father. I don't want him to suffer in any way so I make every effort to try to do what would be right, if both of his parents were functioning adults anyway.

I feel like I'm the crazy one sometimes, honestly. The constant documenting, stressing over whether or not he will bring our son back, if he will show up at all, his harassment of me and my SO, even him claiming that I'm the one that is acting irrationally, it all takes such a huge toll. I feel like my life is still consumed by him even though we aren't together.

Yeah, "chaos" is how dealing with someone with BPD is often described - you never know what to expect.

I think it's important how you present this issue to the court.  It's OK to give some examples, but not too many - you can say, "Those are a couple of examples but there are a lot more."  Talk about the impact on you but mostly on the child - "It's really hard for me to deal with and I'm very concerned about how this chaos might affect Child."

Ask for what you think will be best, but be open to alternative solutions, if the other side should offer something that is practical.  But if they offer something that you don't think will work, make sure to say so, and say why;  pretty often we agree to things to be agreeable when we know they won't work.  If you're in a position where you are getting pushed into something you don't think will work, you can ask for a few minutes to think, or talk with your attorney, to figure out the best way to explain why you don't think it will work.  "I'm open to ideas, but what Mr. Ex has proposed I don't think will work well for Child, because... .".

It's good you are aware of your own tendency to like things very orderly.  Make sure the court sees you as flexible and open to ideas, and at the same time watch out for "solutions" that you know won't work.

Also... .off topic... .but I'm so happy I found this site! I don't feel like I'm alone anymore, even though it's horrible there is more than one person like my ex in the world. No one understands when I try to tell them about his behavior. They act like I'm the unreasonable one simply because I can't articulate exactly how he behaves and how he does things. It's tough to show people unless they experience it first hand. My parents are finally comprehending just how off his mental state can be.

[Matt]

I'm very unsure of what to expect when we go to court so this helps a lot! He is a high functioning BPD individual and makes a good first impression most of the time. Our current parenting plan has only been in affect for about 6 months and he has never adhered to it. For a few months he was even living out of state and did not see our son unless I made the 3 hour trip so he could spend time with him.

Our first agreement was put together outside of court and it is exactly what my ex requested, to the letter. I was unable to go to court to make it official and since we were getting along so well, I trusted him to just go and get it signed. He did so and now wants to change EVERYTHING because I refuse to get back together with him. I know I can't really prove that as his reasoning and an outside party will view it as him just wanting more time with his child. That just isn't the case. He can't be on time to get his son now, I doubt that will change if he is granted more time on paper. He is very aware of my anxiety and mistrust of him and he likes egging me on when he has our son in his care. Like being 90 minutes late returning him to me for no reason and then calling me and demanding to know why I'm not still at our designated meeting place to get our child, then being adamant that if I'm not there within 5 minutes then he is leaving and I'm not getting my child back. How insane is that? It's so stressful and I get so emotional when he uses our son against me.

As far as what to expect, if you have an attorney she should explain how it works where you live - who will talk first - what will be expected of you, etc.  Make sure you and your attorney are 100% in synch as to what you both will say - she works for you!

If you don't have an attorney, you can still find all this out, either by talking with a public attorney, or somebody else at the courthouse.  Go there and ask - tell them you don't have an attorney and you need to find out how this is done so you can prepare correctly.

About this issue of making demands on you because you won't get back together with him - this is one reason e-mail is better than texts, and texts are way better than phone - because e-mails create a paper trail you can show to people, if he says something like, "Since you won't get back with me, I'm going to take you to court to change custody!", or anything else extreme or inappropriate.

You can assemble a file of e-mails showing how he is behaving, or if you have texts you can put those on your computer and print them - maybe "screen captures" if you can do that.  (My phone, if I press the "power" button and "home" button at the same time, takes a picture of its own screen, which I can then e-mail to myself, so I have it on my computer and I can print it out.)

If you can quit talking to him at all that might be best.  Or in some states it's OK to record phone calls if one party (you) knows about it.

Documentation is really important, to show patterns, so the judge can decide for herself what is going on.  Better to show than to tell!