Do they remember raging / dysregulating?

[HopefulDad]

To those who are staying, which is the purpose of this board, are you finding throwing this evidence back in their face making your relationship better?

Is there a diplomatic way of doing this to minimize escalation?

Where do you draw the lines between fighting back and letting it wash?

What is the happy medium?

What needs a boundary, and what is conflict for the sake of it?

Why do we need to prove we are right, if we know our own truth?

I think changing actual facts needs to have a boundary.  And like the extinction bursts experienced with other boundaries, there is going to be resistance.  

I don't recommend using the texts/emails to prove your point of view.

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[LetMEgoPLS]

IME, the uBPDstbx that I am dealing with does not remember his raging episodes and if I bring them up, he will gaslight and say it was ME and there is no convincing him otherwise.

A great example is about a month ago, we got into a text fight where the told me that he was going to abandon me and all kinds of other (meant to be) hurtful things. Within in minutes, his next reply is, "Hi. How is your day going?" -- wow. This was very eye opening for me. It was like the huge blow up never happened.

One nice thing about when you have an iFight via text or email is that you have a record of what was said.  If your pwBPD tries to deny it later during discussion, you can break it out.  I have.  And my BPDw did NOT like that, but you know what?  Tough feces.  You said/wrote it, then own it.  :)on't deny it.  :)on't pretend it didn't happen.  :)on't say you said something else.  :)on't accuse me of changing the events to suit my needs.

I think rooted in the anger of bring up the texts and emails is the shame of revisiting their behavior, their hurtful words... .deep down they *do* know they were wrong, but can't bear having to own it.  So they fight back.  Hard.

He KNOWS what he says is wrong & vicious, so he's taken to snatching my phone -- I originally thought that it was for snooping, but the deletes the thread of messages between him and I, so I've started taking screen prints to preserve the messages. He'd never subject himself to re-reading these conversations, because that would mess up his, it's not ME, it's YOU defense.

Am just jumping in a little late here with some thoughts.

I also get the distinct impression it's too shameful for them to acknowledge it as they aren't in control when they are dysregulated into a rage.  (Imagine if you repeatedly did something which made you feel ashamed and didn't feel you could control it from repeating).

I've been subjected to the awful text tirades as well.  As to re-reading them?  Personally, I don't want to as it just hurts me more.

If we can truly accept they have a problem (hard to do) and therefore realize we don't need them to tell us, in order to be "right", (needing them to validate we're right), (which is also hard), it can help give us some peace.

I spent plenty of time trying to get him to face the behavior was wrong.  He would admit it, and his acknowledgement made me feel better, but didn't make the behavior stop the next time.

So, in my case, I had to ask myself... .what am I looking for here to get from him by "proving" he is wrong and being acknowledged?  And why? 

Now, I don't need him to tell me it's wrong to treat me that way, I know it and I walk away from it.  And I don't participate in it.  (And I'm still angry / frustrated when I do walk away)

When I started to accept (and still am trying) that he suffers from emotional problems, then the questions I've asked myself started to change as well.

When we let go of the need for them to tell us we're "right", then it becomes a matter of how to avoid the dysregulation and reduce our exposure to it.  Don't have to go 'round in circles with them over it.

FWIW... .that's what I've learned from the wise people here, and it's a journey for all of us to get there, and it doesn't end there.   

FWIW, I usually don't break out the texts/emails unless my wife decides to revisit the conversation and starts changing facts left and right.  She is entitled to her interpretation of the words, but not entitled to change what was actually said.  Especially if I'm accused of swearing at her or some other BS.

Honestly, I've rarely, if ever, had him revisit a text conversation. I keep them to support my documentation describing how he's been treating the family - as I expect to be involved in a pretty awful custody battle. The text msgs support the scenarios that I've documented in my diary of events.

[earthgirl]

A great example is about a month ago, we got into a text fight where the told me that he was going to abandon me and all kinds of other (meant to be) hurtful things. Within in minutes, his next reply is, "Hi. How is your day going?" -- wow. This was very eye opening for me. It was like the huge blow up never happened.

nod nod.  with my xBPDgf, this was so prevalent that i began to wonder if she had multiple personalities.  i didn't stick around long enough to find out, tho.

has anybody else wondered that about their pwBPD?  i wonder how often it's actually the case... .

I get this.  Big blow up; I am quiet afterwards; then I get, "What's wrong?"

WHAT'S WRONG?  I just asked you to knock before coming into the bathroom, and you tossed our 20-year-old cat out of your lap, yelled that you were sorry you couldn't measure up to my romantic ideal, stormed out, slammed the door loudly, and when you come back in, you ask me what's wrong?



I love this man but this is seriously... .*sigh*

[earthgirl]

To those who are staying, which is the purpose of this board, are you finding throwing this evidence back in their face making your relationship better?

Is there a diplomatic way of doing this to minimize escalation?

Where do you draw the lines between fighting back and letting it wash?

What is the happy medium?

What needs a boundary, and what is conflict for the sake of it?

Why do we need to prove we are right, if we know our own truth?

Waverider,

I am trying to limit the "fighting back" to those instances when something keeps happening and I know that if I don't talk about it, it's going to be seen as acquiescence to continue the behavior.  Sometimes this is a hard line for me to draw.  OK, it's a hard line all the time.

[waverider]

A great example is about a month ago, we got into a text fight where the told me that he was going to abandon me and all kinds of other (meant to be) hurtful things. Within in minutes, his next reply is, "Hi. How is your day going?" -- wow. This was very eye opening for me. It was like the huge blow up never happened.

nod nod.  with my xBPDgf, this was so prevalent that i began to wonder if she had multiple personalities.  i didn't stick around long enough to find out, tho.

has anybody else wondered that about their pwBPD?  i wonder how often it's actually the case... .

I get this.  Big blow up; I am quiet afterwards; then I get, "What's wrong?"

WHAT'S WRONG?  I just asked you to knock before coming into the bathroom, and you tossed our 20-year-old cat out of your lap, yelled that you were sorry you couldn't measure up to my romantic ideal, stormed out, slammed the door loudly, and when you come back in, you ask me what's wrong?



I love this man but this is seriously... .*sigh*

Everyone else on the planet is immature and bears grudges, a pwBPD is the only one who is capable of "getting over it" in a mature adult way. We all need to grow up.



Thought you all knew that.

[hergestridge]

Actually, one of the first really odd things about my BPD wife (then gf) was that she demanded to be forgiven within hours (or even minutes) if she'd done something hurtful. She can't ser that she does damage and that forgivness is a process.

I once explained that procesd to her. Firstly, the whole thing seemed completely alien to her. Secondly, she asked me why I didn't leave her when it's so much pain to be with her (familiar with that one?).

[waverider]

Actually, one of the first really odd things about my BPD wife (then gf) was that she demanded to be forgiven within hours (or even minutes) if she'd done something hurtful. She can't ser that she does damage and that forgivness is a process.

I once explained that procesd to her. Firstly, the whole thing seemed completely alien to her. Secondly, she asked me why I didn't leave her when it's so much pain to be with her (familiar with that one?).

Its the black and white on/off switch thing. They dont do transition periods. You can explain it forever, they are simply not wired that way.

[Devin6]

To those who are staying, which is the purpose of this board, are you finding throwing this evidence back in their face making your relationship better?

Tonight it did.

*After a string of extremely negative thinking about something that was actually very positive that involved swearing at me and being very vulgar and saying explicitly to leave her alone, verbatim*

[via text]

Me: you're mad at me?

*silence*

Me: I don't feel like I deserve to be talked to this way

Me: I don't like how it makes me feel

Me: Ill talk to you later

Her: you're just going to leave?

Her: figured

Me: you told me to leave you alone

Me: 8 minutes ago

Me: after that you swore at me and made it clear I shouldn't try to talk to you, if you want to talk to me then I want to be here, but if you don't then I won't pester you

Her: call me then then

Proceeded to tell me she wasn't actually mad at me. Didn't apologize, but... .well take what I can I guess. I followed up with validation of her feelings that went something like "I know how that makes you feel. I hate it when its like that". Within a few minutes it was pretty cheery. Later she brought up the issue again, a few times, just out of the blue. Like, *pause in conversation* "I f***ing hate that", at which point I gently stated I understood why she felt that way or something to that effect. Was then able to make some humour, divert from that tangent again.

Without the conversation history staring at her as my words "You said it to me 8 minutes ago" arrived I don't think she would have stopped being that way to me. I found it was key to salvaging tonight. Thats only an 8 minute gap, but I don't know yet how far back I can dig and expect a satisfactory response from her just yet.

Why do we need to prove we are right, if we know our own truth?

Because sharing your life with a person is about sharing yourself and that includes the reality you inhabit. It feels like you have no intimacy when your partner cannot see the world how you do. Every minor acknowledgement of your point of view, every nod in the direction of empathy restores whatever faith you have in your desire to continue with this damaged person that you happen to love. At least it does for me.

Maybe this idea has to die, just a little for me to make this work. Maybe this will end up being my ultimate boundary and what leads to my departure. We will see.

[waverider]

That was a good use of expressing your truth in the SET format. As opposed to just rising to the bait. Good use of "I" feel like, with no direct use of "you" are wrong

In that case the issue wasn't really about you so she dropped it. Often if it is about you and it just escalates from there, and that is the point past which it is pointless acting like a defense lawyer.

You didn't throw evidence back at her, but it gave you confidence and validation in your own reality.

That was well handled and defused the situation

Because sharing your life with a person is about sharing yourself and that includes the reality you inhabit. It feels like you have no intimacy when your partner cannot see the world how you do. Every minor acknowledgement of your point of view, every nod in the direction of empathy restores whatever faith you have in your desire to continue with this damaged person that you happen to love. At least it does for me.

Sharing your reality and view of the world is important, but trying to convince them of your version is not. Often any agreement obtained is more a reflection of how their opinion is of you at that moment, and can be junked when you are the "bad person" again. That leaves you feeling betrayed and bitter, with their agreement seeming shallow, which it often is.

Attacks on others are often driven by a defensive reaction to feeling like a failure themselves, providing evidence of this failure simply adds fuel to the self loathing, which may not manifest until the next blow up.

[hergestridge]

I'm not talking about things that are open for interpretation. I think it's important to hold on to reality, because reality is seriously challenged in a situation like this. I think it's plain unhealthy to swallow your pride and negotiate the truth with someone who is twisting it (consciously or not) and refer to an actual conversation (as opposed to an BPD-edited version) as "my version". Isn't that the kind of self-destructive road you often go down in couples therapy with a BPD person?