Is Laziness and/or faking illness to avoid responsibility common?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So another issue that we continue to bicker over is what I perceive as sheer laziness, and when there isn't a good enough excuse for him to use anymore as to why he has done nothing for three days except watch TV and use the bathroom, he all of a sudden has these mystery ailments or illnesses that he uses to get out of doing much of anything around the house, so that he can continue to sit. 

For instance, he does really good with loading the dishwasher, and is great at switching laundry from washer to dryer.  That's about where his participation in household duties ends.  I appreciate that he does these things, don't get me wrong, but if on a Saturday I'm working -- which is common -- and he has to get the dishes and two loads of laundry done, he will insist that it takes up his entire day, requiring at least eight hours of work, which we all know is BS.  In fact, he recently told me that he just doesn't have time to straighten up our downstairs when he comes in from work -- with kids here every day and three dogs, it gets cluttered quickly -- because it just takes too long.  So he has from 4:00 to 10:00 every day where he "can't get anything done."  I set a timer one day last week and I was able to pick up all the clutter from the kids/dogs, sweep and mop the foyer/living room/dining room, sweep and mop the kitchen, load the dishwasher, take out trash, throw a load of laundry in, and did it all in under 30 minutes.  So I'm just not buying his excuses.  I think he's lazy and uses excuse after excuse to explain away why he is that way, but then I'm the bad guy if I dare suggest that he do something when he's "clearly sick/hurt."   

So if something is broke, or something needs done that is a "man" job -- in other words, requires much more physical exertion than I'm capable of on my own, especially with a neck injury -- I will start by asking him if he would mind taking care of it.  Days will go by, so I remind him that it still isn't done.  A few more days go by and it still isn't done.  By now I'm getting ticked off.  Sometimes this is major stuff -- like a roof leak, or our tub was leaking and every time we would shower/bathe we would have water going into our dining room.  So I'm not complaining because he forgot to put his shoes in the closet.  This is stuff that kind of needs taken care of in a reasonable amount of time.  All of a sudden, because he really has no good excuse for why it hasn't been done, he develops some injury or illness and whines, "I can't believe you would ask me to do that when you can see I'm sick/hurt." 

The thing, though, is, that I don't think he's really sick, injured or anything else.  These conditions appear out of the blue, only when he's being confronted with something that he hasn't taken care of or I find out again that he's been way overspending, and then magically go away with no doctor visits or medication required.  So he tries really hard to make me feel bad for daring to burden him with responsibility when he's "sick/hurt."  It used to work, but it ain't working so well anymore.  I call him on it every single time it happens, but the behavior never changes. 

This is maddening to me because I don't understand it, and now that he knows that I know that he's faking, I don't understand why he continues to try this game.  Is there any solution for getting him up and moving?  I'm being serious when I say that he watches, at a minimum, of TV for 30-40 hours a week.  It is his entire life, and I'm getting sick and tired of shouldering all the burden of running a household, raising a child, and handling life while he fakes illnesses just to get out of moving. 

I suppose it's harder for me to deal with this because I DO have a real injury -- rare neurological condition with no cure -- that causes severe chronic pain, and yet I still hold down a job, take care of whatever needs done that I'm capable of in the house, take care of everything... .all while he sits on the couch in front of the TV watching me bust my hump to get things done. 

So is this a potential component of BPD or do I just have a lazy one on my hands?

[karma_gal]

So another issue that we continue to bicker over is what I perceive as sheer laziness, and when there isn't a good enough excuse for him to use anymore as to why he has done nothing for three days except watch TV and use the bathroom, he all of a sudden has these mystery ailments or illnesses that he uses to get out of doing much of anything around the house, so that he can continue to sit. 

For instance, he does really good with loading the dishwasher, and is great at switching laundry from washer to dryer.  That's about where his participation in household duties ends.  I appreciate that he does these things, don't get me wrong, but if on a Saturday I'm working -- which is common -- and he has to get the dishes and two loads of laundry done, he will insist that it takes up his entire day, requiring at least eight hours of work, which we all know is BS.  In fact, he recently told me that he just doesn't have time to straighten up our downstairs when he comes in from work -- with kids here every day and three dogs, it gets cluttered quickly -- because it just takes too long.  So he has from 4:00 to 10:00 every day where he "can't get anything done."  I set a timer one day last week and I was able to pick up all the clutter from the kids/dogs, sweep and mop the foyer/living room/dining room, sweep and mop the kitchen, load the dishwasher, take out trash, throw a load of laundry in, and did it all in under 30 minutes.  So I'm just not buying his excuses.  I think he's lazy and uses excuse after excuse to explain away why he is that way, but then I'm the bad guy if I dare suggest that he do something when he's "clearly sick/hurt."   

So if something is broke, or something needs done that is a "man" job -- in other words, requires much more physical exertion than I'm capable of on my own, especially with a neck injury -- I will start by asking him if he would mind taking care of it.  Days will go by, so I remind him that it still isn't done.  A few more days go by and it still isn't done.  By now I'm getting ticked off.  Sometimes this is major stuff -- like a roof leak, or our tub was leaking and every time we would shower/bathe we would have water going into our dining room.  So I'm not complaining because he forgot to put his shoes in the closet.  This is stuff that kind of needs taken care of in a reasonable amount of time.  All of a sudden, because he really has no good excuse for why it hasn't been done, he develops some injury or illness and whines, "I can't believe you would ask me to do that when you can see I'm sick/hurt." 

The thing, though, is, that I don't think he's really sick, injured or anything else.  These conditions appear out of the blue, only when he's being confronted with something that he hasn't taken care of or I find out again that he's been way overspending, and then magically go away with no doctor visits or medication required.  So he tries really hard to make me feel bad for daring to burden him with responsibility when he's "sick/hurt."  It used to work, but it ain't working so well anymore.  I call him on it every single time it happens, but the behavior never changes. 

This is maddening to me because I don't understand it, and now that he knows that I know that he's faking, I don't understand why he continues to try this game.  Is there any solution for getting him up and moving?  I'm being serious when I say that he watches, at a minimum, of TV for 30-40 hours a week.  It is his entire life, and I'm getting sick and tired of shouldering all the burden of running a household, raising a child, and handling life while he fakes illnesses just to get out of moving. 

I suppose it's harder for me to deal with this because I DO have a real injury -- rare neurological condition with no cure -- that causes severe chronic pain, and yet I still hold down a job, take care of whatever needs done that I'm capable of in the house, take care of everything... .all while he sits on the couch in front of the TV watching me bust my hump to get things done. 

So is this a potential component of BPD or do I just have a lazy one on my hands?

[Pearl55]

I used to ask my husband if he could take rubbishes out sometimes and he was in a good mood he would do it if not, he uesd to tell me to "am I your servant?"

That was it. I uesd to do everything I mean everything he used to watch TV mostly cartoons with my son.

I do understand now why he was like that? Their egos are very faragile and they know that they are not normal whether diagnosed or not. They think they are used if they do a lot in their mind. They think that they are abusive, abnormal, unlovable... .So why mr x,y or z or mrs x,y and z are still in a relationship with them? So they are using them.

Many womens with this disorder even if they are housewives, don't do anything! Their husbands do cleaning, cooking... .

[seeking balance]

So is this a potential component of BPD or do I just have a lazy one on my hands?

This could be related to BPD or it could be a very common theme in a lot of marriages... .either way, does it help your frustration?

The point is, you need some help.  Communication skills are one of the most valuable things learned on this forum - whether BPD or not, they tend to work.

Taking some time to read the lessons on DEARMAN technique may help you to communicate your needs in a non-threatening way... .many times, this can lead to a result closer to what we are looking for.

pwBPD have very fragile sense of self - so "how" we go about handling conflict can go a long way.   On the staying board, many people practice the communication tools and it truly does help.

Good luck,

SB

[karma_gal]

Weird that I just posted this and then another incident occurred.  I am going to add it here so there's a more full picture of what I deal with.

So H normally works days, but this week has to work nights to get a job done for work where they can't be there during normal business hours due to noise and dust, et cetera.  I am working on my freelance job today, upstairs in my office. 

I went downstairs to grab some lunch, and one of our dogs was at the door, signaling she had to go out to the bathroom.  He was sitting on the couch, as usual.  We have six inches of snow on the ground.  I have shorts, a sweatshirt, and no shoes on, which is my usual work attire when I work from home.  I said, "Can you please take her out?  I took my shoes off upstairs and do not want to go out with all the snow barefoot."  He said he would get her in a minute.  I said, "Look, she's a puppy, she can't hold it until it's convenient for you.  Please just take the dog out."  Of course, he didn't move, so the dog went on the floor.  Then to top it all off, he started screaming at the dog for not going outside to potty and started yelling at me to get the mop and clean it up... .all because he couldn't be bothered to just take the 30 seconds and take her out.  So the dog cowers and goes to her crate, I mopped the floor, and he still sits. 

This is ridiculous. 

[karma_gal]

So is this a potential component of BPD or do I just have a lazy one on my hands?

This could be related to BPD or it could be a very common theme in a lot of marriages... .either way, does it help your frustration?

The point is, you need some help.  Communication skills are one of the most valuable things learned on this forum - whether BPD or not, they tend to work.

Taking some time to read the lessons on DEARMAN technique may help you to communicate your needs in a non-threatening way... .many times, this can lead to a result closer to what we are looking for.

pwBPD have very fragile sense of self - so "how" we go about handling conflict can go a long way.   On the staying board, many people practice the communication tools and it truly does help.

Good luck,

SB

We must have been cross-posting because I didn't see this until after I posted the addition. 

I am definitely going to look into the technique you mentioned, because I need all the help I can get in this area.  Nothing I'm trying on my own is helping.  Whether I'm nice or raging, the result is always the same.  I just can't seem to find an approach that works to appeal to his sense of responsibility -- if he even has one -- or understanding that he needs to participate in life and chores and general life stuff. 

I'm off to go read about communication to see if that helps.  Thanks!

[maxsterling]

Since March when she moved in, I have probably done 90% of the cooking, 95% of the cleaning, 100% of the yard work, in addition to household repair and auto repair.  Lately, she hasn't been able to even fold and put away her own laundry without me helping.  The worst part is, for awhile after she moved in, she gave me a hard time about not being organized or leaving stuff out.  She no longer gives me a hard time, but instead will still complain that the house is messy, and then start with the self-hate that she can't seem to gat anything done.  And she uses ever excuse:

She's too tired.

Her back hurts.

Fibromyalgia.

She has a headache.

Shelves are too high.

My things are in the way.

She doesn't know where anything goes.

It's too hot.

It's too cold.

And this morning she told me she has a negative attitude toward housework because her mom used to beat her if her room was messy, and her dad was very critical of her.  

I can understand some of these.  But in my mind, it still boils down to that she is a 38 year old adult, and she is going to have to find some way of taking care of herself, overcome her fears and excuses, because it's not fair to put all that burden on me.  My frustration is that I don't see her trying that often - just force herself to do something that she doesn't feel like doing, doing it without complaint, just like the rest of us learn to do.  Meanwhile, I am taking up the slack, because I don't want to live in a complete mess, and I worry I am just enabling her.

[seeking balance]

Ok - I am going to break this down from a BPD perspective and show you how the tools may have yielded a different result - not in any way going to be a criticism of you - simply  a different way of doing things.  Trust me when I say, treating an adult like this was against my nature and took me some practice.

I went downstairs to grab some lunch, and one of our dogs was at the door, signaling she had to go out to the bathroom.  He was sitting on the couch, as usual.  We have six inches of snow on the ground.  I have shorts, a sweatshirt, and no shoes on, which is my usual work attire when I work from home.  I said, "Can you please take her out?  I took my shoes off upstairs and do not want to go out with all the snow barefoot."  He said he would get her in a minute. 

Specifically, what was he doing on the couch?

I said, "Look, she's a puppy, she can't hold it until it's convenient for you.  Please just take the dog out." 

argumentative and no real cause/effect... .treating him like you are his parent.  He likely was completely checked out. 

Of course, he didn't move, so the dog went on the floor.  Then to top it all off, he started screaming at the dog for not going outside to potty and started yelling at me to get the mop and clean it up... .all because he couldn't be bothered to just take the 30 seconds and take her out.  So the dog cowers and goes to her crate, I mopped the floor, and he still sits. 

Well, pwBPD have very thin skin - when the dog went on the floor he likely felt intense shame and one of the coping mechanisms to this intense shame is rage at what caused it... .this is pretty text book BPD behavior.

When I have more information regarding what he was doing on the couch, I will try and rescript a bit.

Another good read for you is "High Conflict Couple" - the skills are priceless.

[karma_gal]

Ok - I am going to break this down from a BPD perspective and show you how the tools may have yielded a different result - not in any way going to be a criticism of you - simply  a different way of doing things.  Trust me when I say, treating an adult like this was against my nature and took me some practice.

I went downstairs to grab some lunch, and one of our dogs was at the door, signaling she had to go out to the bathroom.  He was sitting on the couch, as usual.  We have six inches of snow on the ground.  I have shorts, a sweatshirt, and no shoes on, which is my usual work attire when I work from home.  I said, "Can you please take her out?  I took my shoes off upstairs and do not want to go out with all the snow barefoot."  He said he would get her in a minute. 

Specifically, what was he doing on the couch?

I said, "Look, she's a puppy, she can't hold it until it's convenient for you.  Please just take the dog out." 

argumentative and no real cause/effect... .treating him like you are his parent.  He likely was completely checked out. 

Of course, he didn't move, so the dog went on the floor.  Then to top it all off, he started screaming at the dog for not going outside to potty and started yelling at me to get the mop and clean it up... .all because he couldn't be bothered to just take the 30 seconds and take her out.  So the dog cowers and goes to her crate, I mopped the floor, and he still sits. 

Well, pwBPD have very thin skin - when the dog went on the floor he likely felt intense shame and one of the coping mechanisms to this intense shame is rage at what caused it... .this is pretty text book BPD behavior.

When I have more information regarding what he was doing on the couch, I will try and rescript a bit.

Another good read for you is "High Conflict Couple" - the skills are priceless.

Thank you so much for doing this, and I promise I will take nothing offensive.  I really, really need all the help I can get to figure this out.

So what was he doing on the couch?  Sitting there with game music making noise on his iPhone but not really playing it, with the TV on.  I'm really not sure what he was doing, to be honest, aside from sitting there.  I will say that he often sits on the couch staring off into space, doing absolutely nothing that you can see, so it was kind of like that but with the TV on and phone in his hand. 

I totally get the parent/child thing you mentioned, and someone told me to start reading into transactional analysis, that we are stuck in this dynamic, which I totally see. 

I am going right now to put that book on my request list from the library.  Just thinking out loud... .I wonder if my poor librarian is starting to wonder what goes on in my house from all the book titles I request?  LOL

[karma_gal]

Ok - I am going to break this down from a BPD perspective and show you how the tools may have yielded a different result - not in any way going to be a criticism of you - simply  a different way of doing things.  Trust me when I say, treating an adult like this was against my nature and took me some practice.

I went downstairs to grab some lunch, and one of our dogs was at the door, signaling she had to go out to the bathroom.  He was sitting on the couch, as usual.  We have six inches of snow on the ground.  I have shorts, a sweatshirt, and no shoes on, which is my usual work attire when I work from home.  I said, "Can you please take her out?  I took my shoes off upstairs and do not want to go out with all the snow barefoot."  He said he would get her in a minute. 

Specifically, what was he doing on the couch?

I said, "Look, she's a puppy, she can't hold it until it's convenient for you.  Please just take the dog out." 

argumentative and no real cause/effect... .treating him like you are his parent.  He likely was completely checked out. 

Of course, he didn't move, so the dog went on the floor.  Then to top it all off, he started screaming at the dog for not going outside to potty and started yelling at me to get the mop and clean it up... .all because he couldn't be bothered to just take the 30 seconds and take her out.  So the dog cowers and goes to her crate, I mopped the floor, and he still sits. 

Well, pwBPD have very thin skin - when the dog went on the floor he likely felt intense shame and one of the coping mechanisms to this intense shame is rage at what caused it... .this is pretty text book BPD behavior.

When I have more information regarding what he was doing on the couch, I will try and rescript a bit.

Another good read for you is "High Conflict Couple" - the skills are priceless.

Before I forget, when you have a minute, can you elaborate on the bolded part for me?  So he likely felt intense shame and then the rage followed.  I think I have that part because I see that play out often.  Throughout this process does he not understand if he would've just taken the dog out the whole thing could have been avoided?  This seems like a simple cause/effect scenario to me -- you don't take dog out, dog goes on floor.  So to me if you make the choice not to take the dog out and it goes on the floor, you don't yell at the dog.  She did what she was supposed to do -- go to the door -- and he didn't do what he was supposed to do -- take her out -- so she's going to go in the house as a result.  I don't see what the point of the rage is, I guess.  I guess I am failing to see how blame could be shifted to either myself or the dog that would've caused him to go off like this.  And the only thing I see that I could have done differently was to go outside barefoot in six inches of snow, because if I had run upstairs to grab my shoes, she would have gone on the floor in the time it took me to do that.  I promise I'm not being argumentative.  I really just don't understand this. 

[seeking balance]

So what was he doing on the couch?  Sitting there with game music making noise on his iPhone but not really playing it, with the TV on.  I'm really not sure what he was doing, to be honest, aside from sitting there.  I will say that he often sits on the couch staring off into space, doing absolutely nothing that you can see, so it was kind of like that but with the TV on and phone in his hand. 

So, let's look a BPD - the basic criteria - I found it extremely helpful to understand the disorder for a few reasons including:  1. not taking things personally, 2.  have more tolerance, 3.  Know my own buttons and when I needed a break, 4.  have REALISTIC expectations

The articles here are fantastic - my suggestion is stick with credible sources as there is a lot of misinformation out there.

So, your H was zoning out from your perspective... .from his perspective it could be quite different.  Let me also clarify that he may not even know his perspective if he is disassociating.  Many times pwBPD go through the motions w/o really knowing why or even what is going on.

Let's talk about tone - pwBPD are very sensitive - I have heard it described as 3rd degree emotional burns.  As such, your tone can trigger and once triggered, how he "copes" (remember some of the symptoms - maladaptive coping to emotional stimulus) can be number of reasons.

This may or may not have worked differently.

"I am sorry to bother you" (no judgmental tone)

"I seem to have come downstairs without my shoes and I see the dog is at the door.  Can you help me out by letting her out so she does not have an accident on the floor?" 

If you get the same response of

"I will get it in a minute"

You know he is not going to help you out and just do it yourself.  He is not stupid, he may be disassociating.  Arguing or rationalizing this is only going to piss you both off.

Picking and choosing your battles can help.

Well, pwBPD have very thin skin - when the dog went on the floor he likely felt intense shame and one of the coping mechanisms to this intense shame is rage at what caused it... .this is pretty text book BPD behavior.


Before I forget, when you have a minute, can you elaborate on the bolded part for me?  So he likely felt intense shame and then the rage followed.  I think I have that part because I see that play out often.  Throughout this process does he not understand if he would've just taken the dog out the whole thing could have been avoided?

yes, he feels intense shame that the dog peed and you are mad... .his maladaptive coping is rage.

This seems like a simple cause/effect scenario to me -- you don't take dog out, dog goes on floor.  So to me if you make the choice not to take the dog out and it goes on the floor, you don't yell at the dog.  She did what she was supposed to do -- go to the door -- and he didn't do what he was supposed to do -- take her out -- so she's going to go in the house as a result.  I don't see what the point of the rage is, I guess.  I guess I am failing to see how blame could be shifted to either myself or the dog that would've caused him to go off like this.  And the only thing I see that I could have done differently was to go outside barefoot in six inches of snow, because if I had run upstairs to grab my shoes, she would have gone on the floor in the time it took me to do that.  I promise I'm not being argumentative.  I really just don't understand this. 

I will say exactly what our MC said to me, "do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?"

You are assuming he was "here" - he more likely was checked out.  pwBPD have gotten really good at hiding the intense emotions they often feel - as such, when they check back in and a bad event (dog peeing) has happened, anger is the emotion shown.

Radical Acceptance - yours at truly understanding BPD is critical for both you and he to be happy.  BPD is a mental illness, not a bad attitude or a cold - disassociating is common in this disorder and what may seem logical, (dog standing at the door means let it out) he might not even see happening.  And if you ask if he sees it, he is going to get pissed and say yes - nobody wants to think they are not normal.  He isn't stupid, he really likely was zoned and not capable of registering 1+1=2.

Now, this isn't a pass on his behavior or on his part of this.  Does he express interest in being happier or having a better relationship with you when in a mental state "more like him" and not zoned?

This is the undecided board - picking a path - staying/leaving is the goal.

The fact you are reading and learning, indicates to me you would like to stay - am I right on that?  As such, might I suggest being active on staying board and really learn the proper techniques for communication, using the members to vent frustration and practice skills and learn how to enforce proper boundaries.  Perhaps I am wrong and you are truly undecided.  As such, the right hand column has valuable information on what you can go through to pick your path. 

Peace,

SB

[karma_gal]

Seeking Balance:

Thank you SOO much for taking the time to do this.  It really did help me to understand not only how I could have handled this situation better for him, but touched on another issue that drives me up the wall -- the spacing out/disassociating.  I thought maybe he was just weird, sitting there staring off into space for hours on end and nothing seemed to snap him out of it.  I only in the last two weeks had it suggested to look into BPD as an explanation of his behaviors, so I totally have had zero understanding for a long time of what's going on. 

What you said though about him doing this and not having any clue what's going on around him explains soo many things in our lives.  I have often wondered, and asked him, how it could be that he rarely notices anything going on around him.  I remember one rescue dog we brought home was literally sitting above him on the couch -- so he was on the cushion and the dog was on the back of the couch -- chewing away at our wood window trim.  It's original to the house, so over 100 years old, and still ticks me off to this day.  I saw the dog laying there before I went up to work and just assumed all would be fine, H was there to watch her.  He swears he had no idea that the dog was sitting there, let alone chewing up the wood work just inches away.    And we're not talking a small piece -- we're talking half a window worth of trim gone.  I can't tell you how many thousands of times situations like these have driven me to the point where I just lose all patience and tolerance with him. 

You're right, I could have done it myself, and most of the time I do.  You know what, though?  I'm getting really fed up with constantly having to do nearly everything myself because he can't or won't.  I'm tired and I just want him to pull his weight.  The more I read, the more I think I'm expecting more from him than he's capable of. 

Right now, I hang out here on the undecided board, although I have been lurking at the leaving board, because I'm on the fence.  I am going to take a bit to read through some of the material here -- I just discovered the link for the workshops and have been reading every chance I get today -- and go back to therapy because I really do need to make a decision.  I'm getting to the point where I'm just over all of his BS, BPD or not.  I'm tired of shouldering the burden for two people, thinking for two people, having him drain the bank account and having to work more.  This cycle has just beaten me down for way too long.  I am all for learning new communication techniques and making changes and have been doing that to some degree as things with my H have progressively gotten worse.  I'm just not sure I am willing at this point to completely change how I deal with everything in life simply because he can't handle it or respond to it or communicate at a level beyond that of school-age child.  I am 99 percent sure that I'm ready to go, but something keeps holding me back and keeps me sitting on the fence.  I need to figure out why that is, I think, before a concrete decision can be made that I'll feel good about. 

If this disorder is this bad for those of us who don't have it, I would hate to imagine what it would be like to be the person afflicted by it. 

[seeking balance]

You are right karma_gal - this is all exhausting.  I know when I came here I was exhausted.  Most of the time we don't look for change unless there is enough pain... .such is the human experience I suppose.

Wise of you to go to T and look into recharging your own batteries before making a decision.  Since you are clearly undecided, but still living together - the best advice you will get regarding communication is on staying - those folks are really the experts in all this.  I did find that not making things worse helped a lot.

So, what can you do for you to get a bit of the frustration out?

I found hot power yoga fantastic, others here took up kick-boxing - still others started running... .what do you do to physically release all that stress?

[maxen]

this was the single greatest irritant in my marriage. mail (including mine) tossed in piles and unattended to, dog mess not cleaned up in the yard, the dog's dish never cleaned, clothes thrown all over the place, sitting on clothes instead of moving them, caps not put back on spices, food not put back in the refrigerator, dishes undone, trash not thrown in the trash bin, clothes not taken out of the dryer, magazines never thrown out. we absolutely had to have a cleaning service, and when i suggested that it would be a marriage building thing if we set aside alternate saturdays to clean together she said i was uselss around the house (projection). this from someone who spent almost all her time on her ipad or in front of the television. we both worked full-time, i'm not talking in housewife terms, i'm talking about just taking care of her half. i wish i'd had SB's suggestions on dealing. this is a woman in her 40s, a phi beta kappa graduate with 2 masters' degrees, i could not for the life of me understand it, which led to me feeling like i had to raise my wife which led to big frustration which led to big unhappiness. i wept once or twice because it was simply unending and she would never do anything, even when i told her how much it would mean to me to see that i had a partner. i now believe that it was her own way of saying "take care of me, mr object-attachment", and, you know, if she had said something to that effect - "maxen, it makes me feel attended to when you clean up after me" - i would i think have been able to do it. but, she didn't.

[seeking balance]

this was the single greatest irritant in my marriage. mail (including mine) tossed in piles and unattended to, dog mess not cleaned up in the yard, the dog's dish never cleaned, clothes thrown all over the place, sitting on clothes instead of moving them, caps not put back on spices, food not put back in the refrigerator, dishes undone, trash not thrown in the trash bin, clothes not taken out of the dryer, magazines never thrown out. we absolutely had to have a cleaning service, and when i suggested that it would be a marriage building thing if we set aside alternate saturdays to clean together she said i was uselss around the house (projection). this from someone who spent almost all her time on her ipad or in front of the television. we both worked full-time, i'm not talking in housewife terms, i'm talking about just taking care of her half. i wish i'd had SB's suggestions on dealing. this is a woman in her 40s, a phi beta kappa graduate with 2 masters' degrees, i could not for the life of me understand it, which led to me feeling like i had to raise my wife which led to big frustration which led to big unhappiness. i wept once or twice because it was simply unending and she would never do anything, even when i told her how much it would mean to me to see that i had a partner. i now believe that it was her own way of saying "take care of me, mr object-attachment", and, you know, if she had said something to that effect - "maxen, it makes me feel attended to when you clean up after me" - i would i think have been able to do it. but, she didn't.

My story too - especially the bolded part - in the end, I felt crazy, tired and by the time I found the tools here - I had contributed to so much dysfunction by my own lack of understanding that I just didn't have anything left.

[Pearl55]

Maxen,

BPD is nothing to do with INTELLIGENCE. My husband is a Dr himself. The more intelligent they are the more they know what they are doing. She didn't clean or whatever on a purpose! They know what they are doing and often enjoy it. They are EMOTIONALLY 3 year old with no boundaries so as much as you let them, they use you.

I know they dissociate a lot but they are even in control of that as well. Why they don't dissociate a lot when they are at work? Because they know they will be kicked out. I wish I could explain these in a better way but English in not my first language.

[maxen]

in the end, I felt crazy, tired and by the time I found the tools here - I had contributed to so much dysfunction by my own lack of understanding that I just didn't have anything left.

yes, my reactions too were counterproductive and i too grew very tired.

since i'm venting, this laziness extended to herself. she had a weight issue, which didn't interfere in my feelings but she developed sciatica and the doctors said they wouldn't operate until she lost some pounds. so the surgery was delayed most of a year while she was on both fentanyl and oxycodone daily, and didn't lose an ounce. just wouldn't stick to a plan. she also referred to herself as possibly alcoholic and i thought, but didn't say, if you know you have a problem, one that interfered in our marriage, might you want to do something about it? but that would have taken discipline. (and i didn't understand alcoholism.)

her messes were others' to clean, her problems were others' to solve, and she left because she "didn't feel cherished."

[karma_gal]

You are right karma_gal - this is all exhausting.  I know when I came here I was exhausted.  Most of the time we don't look for change unless there is enough pain... .such is the human experience I suppose.

Wise of you to go to T and look into recharging your own batteries before making a decision.  Since you are clearly undecided, but still living together - the best advice you will get regarding communication is on staying - those folks are really the experts in all this.  I did find that not making things worse helped a lot.

So, what can you do for you to get a bit of the frustration out?

I found hot power yoga fantastic, others here took up kick-boxing - still others started running... .what do you do to physically release all that stress?

I usually read this site for an hour or so before going to bed at night so I will spend some time on the staying board tonight, and keep reading the workshops.  I've requested that book and will definitely start working on communicating "his" way a little bit better in the interim, until I'm ready to go.  You said it best, though, about therapy.  I'm really not looking for someone to help me figure out what's going on -- quite frankly, I'm beyond caring what the reason for it is, I just want it to come to an end -- I really just need to get my strength up to do what it takes to get out of here.  I love your "not making it worse" comment.  I totally needed to hear that perspective because that's exactly the point I need to get to.  The status quo sucks, but I have no doubt he's got much more if I push things too far, and I just can't handle any more.

What do I do to relieve stress?  I work.  Seriously, that's all I've done for the last six months.  We are caught in a vicious cycle where he spends enormous amounts of money, usually $20 to $30 a day at the gas station, plus lunch out, plus tools, plus whatever, and thinks nothing of depleting the checking account week after week after week.  It has been an argument forever and I hesitated to restrict him from the money, because that seemed to be taking the parent/child thing too far.  So our cycle is, we both work full time, he spends like there's no tomorrow, promises he will work overtime to help out for overspending, he refuses to work overtime, so I'm stuck working constantly to keep us afloat, which is sad because he makes great money.  He just can't not spend it.  I just recently told him I couldn't live like that anymore and opened my own checking account where I deposit all my checks and then just take out whatever I need for the bills.  

So I work, literally, 70 to 90 hours a week right now to get some recent medical debt paid off and to take care of some other things that need done, like house repairs, et cetera, that he refuses to do.  I guess the good part is that I love what I do for a living, so it's not as bad as it could be.  The downside, though, is that between work and his silliness, I'm constantly exhausted.  I try to work when my son is sleeping and at school and have it arranged where I am home and available when he is, and then I return to work some more. and then sleep when I can.  Sad, this whole thing, because when we met I owned a home of my own, all my bills were paid, and I had a nice savings account.  I forget what that was like, honestly.  

I need to get a stress-relieving hobby, though.  I'll put it on my list!  

[karma_gal]

in the end, I felt crazy, tired and by the time I found the tools here - I had contributed to so much dysfunction by my own lack of understanding that I just didn't have anything left.

yes, my reactions too were counterproductive and i too grew very tired.

since i'm venting, this laziness extended to herself. she had a weight issue, which didn't interfere in my feelings but she developed sciatica and the doctors said they wouldn't operate until she lost some pounds. so the surgery was delayed most of a year while she was on both fentanyl and oxycodone daily, and didn't lose an ounce. just wouldn't stick to a plan. she also referred to herself as possibly alcoholic and i thought, but didn't say, if you know you have a problem, one that interfered in our marriage, might you want to do something about it? but that would have taken discipline. (and i didn't understand alcoholism.)

her messes were others' to clean, her problems were others' to solve, and she left because she "didn't feel cherished."

This right here, with "him" replacing "her," is the story of my life.  Unreal. 

[maxen]

Sad, this whole thing, because when we met I owned a home of my own, all my bills were paid, and I had a nice savings account.  I forget what that was like, honestly.

wow, kg, i am so sorry.

[karma_gal]

Sad, this whole thing, because when we met I owned a home of my own, all my bills were paid, and I had a nice savings account.  I forget what that was like, honestly.

wow, kg, i am so sorry.

Thanks!  I'm a little bitter, I think, when I sit down and try to count up all the money this man has cost me.  The good news is my current house will be paid for in just under two years, and he can't touch it if I decide to give up on the marriage.  It's financed in my parents' names and so after checking with an attorney, he has zero recourse in terms of trying to fight for the house.  I'll get back to where I was... .I just took the long, bumpy, windy, turny scenic route.  LOL

[wishfulthinking]

karma_gal... .I'm right with ya on the money thing... .I'm so broke, I can't pay my basic bills. I don't know what to do.  Everything is everyone else's fault.  I love this man, but I can't live like this.

[momtara]

OH.  MY.  GOD.  That was my big issue with my husband exactly.

Every cruel thing he did, or thing he got out of, he explained with "Well, I was sick."  And then I became the bad guy for mentioning it.

He canceled events to get back at me, then told our marriage therapist he canceled because he was sick, and that I was cruel to bring it up.

He avoided all household chores and said he was sick.  Then criticized how I did them and made me do them over and over.

If you look up somatization (or however you spell it), they probably do feel pain - from the stress of having to take responsibility!  It's all very convoluted.

The physical ailments is a way for them to cover up or save face because their illness makes them unwilling to do things for others or take responsibility.  If they really have the mentality of a kid, then they can't handle adult responsibility.  So they need their 'illnesses' to explain it.

Wow, have to go back and read your post, because it describes my marriage.  We went to a marriage counselor for a year and she thought the problem was that I was insensitive to his pain... .until FINALLY she figured it out!  He started to be inconsistent.

[momtara]

PS, I paid the majority of everything and made life easy for him.  It's quite possible that if I didn't, our relationship would have ended.

Some people above are telling you how to use different steps to get him to comply.  This is hard.  You have a right to get frustrated. 

This is NOT normal husband/wife behavior if it's past a certain point.  We all get lazy about chores, but people have to do at least a little of their share, barring a REAL illness.

This is manipulation.

[karma_gal]

OH.  MY.  GOD.  That was my big issue with my husband exactly.

Every cruel thing he did, or thing he got out of, he explained with "Well, I was sick."  And then I became the bad guy for mentioning it.

He canceled events to get back at me, then told our marriage therapist he canceled because he was sick, and that I was cruel to bring it up.

He avoided all household chores and said he was sick.  Then criticized how I did them and made me do them over and over.

If you look up somatization (or however you spell it), they probably do feel pain - from the stress of having to take responsibility!  It's all very convoluted.

The physical ailments is a way for them to cover up or save face because their illness makes them unwilling to do things for others or take responsibility.  If they really have the mentality of a kid, then they can't handle adult responsibility.  So they need their 'illnesses' to explain it.

Wow, have to go back and read your post, because it describes my marriage.  We went to a marriage counselor for a year and she thought the problem was that I was insensitive to his pain... .until FINALLY she figured it out!  He started to be inconsistent.

Momtara:

WOW, I can't believe someone else has lived through this and knows EXACTLY what I am talking about because, as in your case, he uses this "I was sick/hurt" story CONSTANTLY to explain why he just couldn't be bothered to do (insert anything here), and everyone looks at me like I'm some insensitive raging b**&&& for expecting anything of such a "sick" man.  People just don't get it and certainly don't buy my story that that's what he's doing because it sounds so asinine.  Unfortunately mine won't stay in therapy long enough for anyone else to see it, either.  I constantly will say, "Well, if your headache is so bad that your vision is impaired and you feel sick to your stomach and can't stand lights/noise/et cetera, have you taken a migraine pill?"  Well, of course not, because the pill might work, and then he won't have that excuse to use anymore. 

I wish I were exaggerating but this happens in some form at least four times a week.  His knee hurts so he "can't even walk."  How in the world can he take out the trash?  His elbow hurts, so he can't possibly be expected to load the dishwasher today.  His back hurts, so he can't possibly be in good enough shape to take a look and see why the roof is leaking.  It's never-ending and I literally want to throw things at him sometimes because I see right through it.  As you said, it's simply manipulation at this point.  I guess I figured, though, that once he knew that I knew what he was doing he would knock it off.  Nope, not him, he's still at it with gusto.  Again, I think it irritates me more simply because I DO have health issues that in most people would limit their activities -- my doc says most go on disability and he can't believe I'm still working -- and I manage to not only handle my responsibilities but his, too.  I am so sick of his "victim" mentality that I can't stand to look at him right now. 

So you used the past tense a lot in your post, does that mean you finally got out?  I chuckled as I wrote that, thinking, "Wow, it's sounding like I'm asking her if she finally got out of prison."  But you know what?  That's almost what this feels like to me right now, so I'm going to leave it there instead of trying to reword it to better convey what I mean.  If you did get out, is there sanity on the other end?  If so, how long did it take you to process what you had been through in your marriage and return to some level of normalcy?  I'm soo afraid that since it's been so long since my life has been "normal" -- realizing, of course, that normal is a relative term -- that I won't know how to function outside of this craziness. 

[karma_gal]

Momtara:

Thank you so much for giving a name to this craziness.  I plugged somatization into Google, preceded by BPD, and came up with a bunch of stuff.  Somehow I landed on a link that was specific to "factitious disorder" which is this exactly.  WOW, this is totally real... .and totally mind-blowing.  I have lots of reading to do today, thank you! 

[momtara]

Well, I just finished a divorce from him.  The sick-faking and not taking responsibility was only the tip of the iceberg, and in itself not enough to make me leave.  He did worse things than that (including falsely telling the cops I abused our kids... .another story.)

Anyway, he actually does have some real health problems, so it was always hard to pinpoint the fake ones, and that's probably why he was able to get away with it.  He never seemed to have those problems when we were about to do something HE wanted to do, though!

Does your H get sick on your birthday a lot?  And before trips?  That gets him out of doing anything for you.

[karma_gal]

Well, I just finished a divorce from him.  The sick-faking and not taking responsibility was only the tip of the iceberg, and in itself not enough to make me leave.  He did worse things than that (including falsely telling the cops I abused our kids... .another story.)

Anyway, he actually does have some real health problems, so it was always hard to pinpoint the fake ones, and that's probably why he was able to get away with it.  He never seemed to have those problems when we were about to do something HE wanted to do, though!

Does your H get sick on your birthday a lot?  And before trips?  That gets him out of doing anything for you.

WOW he did not? When I get done working I will check out your threads and read your story. Is there ANY limit that pwBPD will not cross to "win"?

Yep, mine does get "sick" or have some phantom injury before not only all holidays but my son and i's birthdays. I always thought it was him pulling these stunts to be the center of attention but now that I think about it I can't remember the last time he got me a gift. I always get an IOU. He throws the biggest fit tho if I don't get him something which I always found a bit incredulous. *pardon typos on my phone*

[momtara]

Same with me.  I got gifts, but it was like pulling teeth sometimes.  Yet, if I didn't get him something perfect, I'd get yelled at. 

It is hard to have a day when they are not the center of attention.

[karma_gal]

Same with me.  I got gifts, but it was like pulling teeth sometimes.  Yet, if I didn't get him something perfect, I'd get yelled at. 

It is hard to have a day when they are not the center of attention.

Ain't that truth?

So I just have a question that may not appropriate for this thread because it's a different topic entirely, but kind of fits.  I obviously have tons of reading to do and lots to learn... .but what I'm struggling with right now given everything I've read here so far, all the things you guys have validated for him are abnormal behavior whether BPD or something else is, how in the world do they stay "sane" or "normal" during the dating period but completely turn into someone else entirely after marriage?  I mean, most dating periods are a pretty good length of time -- a year or two or more.  How do they hide all of these things for so long?  I mean, I'm going to be honest and say there were some signs of things while dating, but they were easily dismissed at the time, and sometimes just flat-out overlooked by me because I didn't want to see them, but if I had seen ALL of this during dating, I wouldn't have been able to run fast or far enough to get out of Dodge.  I know for me it's hard being "fake" for an hour at a funeral home with relatives I can't stand; I can't imagine pretending and acting for years or more.  That seems like soo much effort, for what, really?  And if they can't stand us -- as mine tells me all the time, and demonstrates by not wanting to be close or have a life together -- why bother to get married at all?  Too many questions at this point, I think... .

[karma_gal]

Was going to post this earlier, but was too lazy to type from my phone.

So in the spirit of this post, my husband strikes again today. 

He has been working nights this week because the job they are doing can't be done with the office people there.  So he has been on his own, with no supervision, so far all week.  So far, he has come home early both nights because no one is there to make sure he stays as long as he's supposed to.  So this bugs me anyway; he's only scheduled for eight hours and is bailing after about five, but yet putting eight on his time card.  I get so sick of him thinking that the rules don't apply to him. 

But today he called me about three hours after going in and said he thought he was going to have to leave.  I said, "Why?  You were fine when you left."  He said his boss kept calling him to see why he was behind, but he was just too ill to stay there all night.  I'm wondering if this isn't one of those cases where:

He was put on this job on his own this week.

Because he's leaving early -- and likely doing the bare minimum, which is his trademark across the board -- he is now behind, and this job is on a limited schedule.

His boss is calling wanting to know why things are behind, so now he's suddenly sick.

I'm wondering if he's deploying this tactic at work, too; telling his boss he's soo incredibly sick so that he will stop getting on him about why nothing is getting done. 

Then he sends me an e-mail and tells me he is "too weak" to call and talk, but could I please get in the cabinet and have antibiotics waiting on him.  First of all, the antibiotics are the very first bottle that you see when you open the cabinet door.  Why is it MY job to open the cabinet door and get them out for him, when he could just as easily open it.  I can't figure out if he's using me because he really is THAT lazy as a general rule, or if he's trying to get me all worked up -- get me medicine, I'm dying -- so that I don't question him as to why he is once again begging off work early this week when he knows I will have ZERO sympathy for any excuse otherwise since I am now on my third 18-hour day of the week. 

I get so sick of never knowing whether he can be believed or not because he has faked so many times in the past.