rights to personal property after seperation before divorce

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hey gang. My wife and I married last December. After months of her violent raging,lies and manipulations I had enough and left 6 months ago. I had to leave with literally only the clothes on my back.

   I have sent many emails (only way of contact) about setting up a time for me to get the rest of my stuff, but she will not reply. I only want what I brought into the marriage, my personal belongings and that of my daughters.

So I'm going to have to get the police involved to go with me to retrieve my things. We are still married and I am still on the lease of the house she's renting, though I haven't paid any of the bills there. I've been hesitant to get my stuff as I can imagine how pissed she will get.

What should I be expecting out of her? What are my rights?

What if she says she doesn't have my stuff, then what? I kind of expect her to say she sold my things to pay rent or something like that. Can she do that?

     All of this is probably so obvious to most people. But most people don't have to deal with BPD and it's deceitful ways.

Thanks for any help.

[blur]

Hey gang. My wife and I married last December. After months of her violent raging,lies and manipulations I had enough and left 6 months ago. I had to leave with literally only the clothes on my back.

   I have sent many emails (only way of contact) about setting up a time for me to get the rest of my stuff, but she will not reply. I only want what I brought into the marriage, my personal belongings and that of my daughters.

So I'm going to have to get the police involved to go with me to retrieve my things. We are still married and I am still on the lease of the house she's renting, though I haven't paid any of the bills there. I've been hesitant to get my stuff as I can imagine how pissed she will get.

What should I be expecting out of her? What are my rights?

What if she says she doesn't have my stuff, then what? I kind of expect her to say she sold my things to pay rent or something like that. Can she do that?

     All of this is probably so obvious to most people. But most people don't have to deal with BPD and it's deceitful ways.

Thanks for any help.

[Waddams]

I would think if you still have a key and you're still on the lease, you have a right to be there and you can go anytime you want to get your things, assuming she hasn't changed the locks.  She might not react well, but I'd think you have the right to do it regardless of how she reacts.  Just be careful.  It might depend on what your jurisdiction's laws are regarding landlord/tenant law.

As for your things, whatever your state's abandoned property laws would probably come into play.  I'm not saying you abandoned your things.  The law will stipulate a definition of what constitutes abandoned property, what does not, and what people holding abandoned property can do with it, steps they have to take before getting rid of it, etc.

Has anyone started anything in the legal realm?  I'm not certain how moving out with no legal agreements in place plays into your situation.  If you're on the lease but not paying, you could be set up for some kind of abandonment liability exposure there, depending on your state's divorce laws.

[livednlearned]

Hi blur,

One option is to get what's called "domestic assistance" when you have law enforcement escort you to the house. If your ex works, you could arrange to do it then. They won't allow you to take marital property, only things that are your personal possessions (is your daughter from another relationship?)

I did that when I left the marriage. Also, I came back about a month later with a moving truck while N/BPDx was at work and took the rest of my personal belongings. The moving guys knew exactly what was going down, and I got the impression they see it happen all the time.

As far as court goes, at least where I live, even if you took every item in the house, it basically counts against the financial settlement (and everything is basically appraised at Craig's list value). Meaning, no one gets worked up about separating the stuff in family court. Not when it's personal items and things of little to no value. Truthfully, I think lawyers and judges are relieved when you take matters into your own hands and don't plug up the courts over petty disputes over personal items.

But before you do anything, it's not a bad idea to consult with a lawyer. Sometimes it's free for 30 minutes, in other places it's $50 to $100. Write down a list of questions and find out if you can do a quick sweep without any repercussions.

The whole issue about "abandoning the marital home" is moot in no-fault divorce states, I believe. But that's a question for an attorney.

[Waddams]

LnL is wise. :-)

I just wanted to add that I was refering to abandoned property more relating to like what happens if a tenant moves out and leaves a couch/fridge/etc. At some point they lose their right to claim it later if they don't claim it within a set time frame, or if the landlord tries to contact them and they don't respond. When my uxBPDgf left, I got advice on how to not run afoul of my state's laws regarding her stuff. Legally we weren't married, her name wasn't on my house, so she was a tenant at will. Which made me her landlord. I had to figure out how to give her access to her stuff for a set time period while also figuring out how to keep her out of the house so I didn't wake up with knives in my chest.  Ended up moving all her stuff into my garage, changed the locks, and let her keep the remote opener so she could access her personal stuff.

If you can prove you've been trying to get your stuff, she probably can't just dispose of it without violating law regarding abandoned property.  You need to show you maintained an interest in any property that was left in her care. If she disposed/damaged it, then she'd be liable for whatever penalties the pertinent laws hand down. You might need to file for an order for her to allow you to get your stuff, and it probably won't be through family court. In my area, it's the same court evictions are handled in.

Blur really needs to consult a lawyer is what it comes down too.

[broken3]

Blur,

Almost same thing here. Except it was our home.

I called a local state constable to be there with me when she was home.

The firts thing I did was to video tape the contents of the house for inventory.

Then I removed my belongings.

Anything she objected to had to stay in the home till the divorce and division of assets.

The video was helpful as expensive items that were in video miraculously went missing. Or were smashed/damaged.

The constable was necessary to prove what was taken and to prevent being put in a situation where false allegations could have been made.

[blur]

Thanks for.the replies.

She will likely be there as she doesn't work. She had rented the house for a year before I signed along side of her last January. I'm sure she continued paying rent as if nothing had changed.

My daughter is from a previous relationship. We were able to get the majority of my daughters things, probably because my wife had no use for it. The wife still has my daughters laptop.

    You need to cover every angle when dealing with a BPD. They'll look for and exploit any weakness in your defense. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.

[Waddams]

Some jurisdictions also won't provide a police escort without an order from a judge.  Mine is like that.

You might be stuck until you file for divorce and get court orders specifying division of property/assets.

[livednlearned]

My lawyer, who has experience with BPD, recommended that I go to the house unannounced because it's not uncommon for items to go missing or get destroyed when you tip your hand.

So that's a good question for your L, what waddams mentioned -- can you go to the house without announcing, and do you need a court order from a judge to remove your stuff, and will she be given advance notice.

Sorry you're going through this. Really unfortunate that your daughter can't get her laptop back. 

LnL

[Waddams]

One other thought just hit me - this is along the lines of FD's quote - the badly behaving party rarely has consequences, the good behaving party rarely gets credit.

Sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.  LnL's point about just going when she's not home and getting your stuff sneak attack style is good one too.  People get screwed on asset division all the time because the other party just took something/stole/sold something and nothing is ever done about it afterwards via the courts.   

[ForeverDad]

One other thought just hit me - this is along the lines of FD's quote - the badly behaving party rarely has consequences, the good behaving party rarely gets credit.

Sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.  LnL's point about just going when she's not home and getting your stuff sneak attack style is good one too.  People get screwed on asset division all the time because the other party just took something/stole/sold something and nothing is ever done about it afterwards via the courts.

Do get legal advice.  It may go smoothly, it may not.  Hard to say beforehand.  There are a number of ways this could blow up on you - or it may go smoothly and be a done deal.

Since you're on the lease, you do have some rights.  If you no longer live there and she has de facto possession then maybe those rights are limited, I just don't know.  For sure, you do not want a confrontation, so don't be alone without witnesses to back you up.

How much conflict is there?  Have any court actions been initiated that might affect your rights to remove your belongings?  I've read here that some have hired professional movers who are familiar with conflict, then take photos or videos of everything removed as documentation you didn't 'steal' anything of hers.  As long as they're reputable, they should be aware of how to handle 'incidents' and 'confrontations'.

Also, the lease expires at the end of the year?  Then what?  Is she moving?  If she signs a new lease, then your tenancy or what there is left of it ends when the lease you signed ends.  The clock is ticking on what you decide to do or not do.  Potentially it's a sticky wicket, whatever that is, so do so carefully with lawyer on speed dial.