Suspecting he is a sex addict now too. Wonderful

[pecia]

Goodmorning. Well, my udBPDh and I have been married for 17 yrs. He moved out in September for a trial separation to see if we want to stay married. That was his choice. I was emotionally unfaithful and he had one physical affair he will admit to, although I suspect many more. He has admitted to being a pathological liar. Since living apart, we have been sort of dating and it has seemed fairly good. We have been talking and sorting our issues. We see each other several nights a week and still have sex at least weekly. Yesterday, I was running errands in town and hadn't heard from him so I decided to stop by his apartment (first time I have gone there). He had just woke up. We sat on the couch for a min and then I needed to go to the bathroom. He had talked about how small the shower stall was - so while I was in there I peeped in his shower- which should have been benign. I notice 2 bottles of body wash, his shampoo, and some girly shampoo and conditioner. Interesting. I am not a rocket scientist, but I know my husband of nearly 2 decades has oily hair and doesn't use conditioner. This prompts me to look in his vanity. I find tear drop earrings and a big bag of makeup under the sink. I lose it at this point. I was shaking. I went into the living room as calmly as I could and sat the items on the bar and asked whose they were. He blurted out "I'm not fxcking anyone! If I tell you whose they are you will be mad." I slammed the door and left before I lost control. This caused him to start revisiting all the horrible things I did by loving another man and contemplating leaving him 2 years ago. Nevermind his countless affairs. He tried to say it was a buddy of his girlfriends stuff (horrible substandard lie - geez). I know he is having sex with someone else. I am not dimwitted. Then he reminds me that I didn't have enough sex with him before. I asked him how he was keeping it in his pants then since I am so lacking. He said porn and masturbation. Are you kidding me? Is he serious? It just kinda calls into question 18 yrs of a relationship. I don't even know who I am married to anymore. How can they just do this to us? I am smart and successful. I am about to graduate with my masters degree and will have a 6 digit income. In the meantime - he is probably screwing some trash. It makes me want to throw up. I don't know what to do. I love him. He says he loves me and wants to be with me but that he has to know that it is real before he comes back home. I am not even sure I want him to at this point. I am exhausted from trying to be the rational one that keeps myself in check and doesn't hurt his feeling (because boy you pay for that later). I am almost 35 years old. I am too old for this kind of teenage drama. He won't get therapy and because of school and work and every amount of bills we have being my responsibility - I cannot afford it for me. Thanks for letting me vent. I am just feeling very helpless right now.  Thanks, pecia

[Clearmind]

Pecia, therapeutic separation is a good thing when each person seeks independent help - are either of you in therapy? (independent of one another).

Conflict will arise and it helps to have a therapist work through it all.

Being undecided sucks…what needs to happen for you to want to reconcile? Maybe lay down some facts to help you with your decision. What do you need to do differently? - we are part of the cycle of conflict (I'm not referring to infidelity here - that is not right).

Where there any boundaries set re: sex with others during this trial separation? What boundaries would you need to set with hubby to reconcile given his infidelity and have you got past it the resentment?

[pecia]

Clearmind,

Thanks for the reply Neither one of us are in therapy. I would love to be but my insurance does not cover it and because we are separated and I am in school (while working), we now have our own set of household bills. I don't have any disposable income at this point. I am hoping when I graduate in May and get a better paying job that I will be able to afford it. When he originally moved out in September, I tried to get him to agree to not see anyone else while we were trying to fix our relationship. I suspected he might already have a candidate when he moved out and he never would agree to not see other people. It ticked me off, but at the same time I really didn't think that he was considering he is over my house most nights and has sex with me regularly. What I found the other day pretty much confirms it. I am sure he didn't want to tell me whose stuff it was because it is probably a woman I am familiar with from his previous escapades. I came home that day and wrote every hateful thing I was thinking down just to get it out of my head. Later on in the night we texted back and forth. He maintained his cool (which is abnormal). We both said some snarky things here and there but nothing like he used to say to me. He has finally stopped with the name calling. I have repeatedly told him that feelings are not up for debate. I just want him to acknowledge my feelings, not necessarily agree. He is finally getting that and that it applies to his feelings too (which he likes). After a couple days I cooled off. Tonight we talked a little too - text again. He worked and I work tomorrow (opposite shifts) so seeing each other wasn't really an option. I asked him if he was coming back when his lease is up in March. He says he still can't promise he will. He says things need to be better between us before he will agree to it. I concur. I told him that he has until March to decide (he is horrible at making decisions - I always did it). If he will not agree to a monogamous, honest relationship by then, then he can stay gone. I told him technically he never agreed to be faithful during this time but that it hurt me to find out that way and then have him lie about it to my face. A consequence of that is that now I am not all gung ho about having sex with him.  I asked him to write down his expectations of marriage and I will do the same (essentially our boundaries incognito). I am requiring they be agreed upon before he comes home. Since he has an immature mentality - maybe he needs clearcut rules and consequences for both of us. Prior - it was don't do anything you wouldn't want me doing - which got horribly misinterpreted. I know we will always have issues because of the BPD. I can handle that. Time apart has allowed me time to get more control of my emotions, to detach a little (as I am very codependent). I have already told him that any more physical affairs after he comes home and I am gone for good. Any ideas on the rules/regulations of the marriage? I want to be sure I hit on all the important issues. Thank, pecia

[Clearmind]

Pecia, I get sad to hear that members need insurance to get therapy! In Australia is heavily subsidised.

I'm sorry to hear that you suspect he has another person in his life. This makes it very hard for you to build trust and move the relationship forward.

To agree to a monogamous relationship he will need to show it too and right now he is showing you any action that he is willing to commit. He is on spring break right now which is not how a separation should go.

I like the idea of writing down expectations - a therapist would be inclined to do that too. If there is anything you do not understand its good to clarify what he means. Sometimes Borderlines misconstrue their feelings.

Firstly, whatever "rules" you write down need to be your rules and there needs to be consequences if your boundaries are busted. Trust is a huge issue right now I would imagine. Your boundaries may need to revolve around feeling secure and protected inside the marriage. The other factor is also allowing each other, in the face of lack of trust, to still have your own interests and move out of the relationship being enmeshed/co-dependent. Other boundaries maybe for you to not enable him so Hubby has the space to step up and be accountable.

- our happiness cannot be pinned onto how well the relationship is going - we need external stimuli - friends, hobbies, families

- shaming, accusatory or judgmental banter is off limits in the marriage - if he or you are angry, walk away and cool off

- begin to work on noticing unhappiness when enduring has been your prime survival mechanism

- write down your needs and what you want, need from a marriage - he will need to the same

- no cheating and infidelity

- time together

etc. etc. Make a list hear pecia of what you want/need - great time to start thinking about it.

[pecia]

Hello, I am feeling a little frustrated today. I asked my husband if I could spend the day with him Sunday since it is the only day we have off together. He says he has to change his brake pads that day (he has been saying that for months). I told him ok but I asked him if it had to be that day since I needed time with him. He said yes. I asked him if I could share my feelings without upsetting him. He said probably not but I did it anyway- for me. I just related that it made me feel like I wasn't important to him and that I feel that since he doesn't care to see me that it reinforces that he has someone else. He got moody after that. Went into his rant about me not liking sex and that I never did and that is one of the big reasons he will not commit to coming back. I explained to him that if I never see him- I cannot have sex with him and that him possibly having a girlfriend makes me apprehensive. And also that if he expresses no interest in it- I am not going to push it on him- sex isn't my sole reason for wanting to see him (unlike his apparently). If he is tired from work and we only have 2 hrs together - I would rather just visit with him. We haven't been intimate in almost 2 weeks- but I have only seen him for 3 of those days and only 1 was for any real amount if time (and he had just had sex the previous 2 days)- so it wasn't an urgent need then. He doesn't see how he objectifies me. It feels like the only thing he interprets as affection is sex and it drives me batty. He either went to sleep or just shut down after I started talking feelings. So frustrating. What is worse is if we don't see each other Sunday- it will be another week before will are able to again. I also reminded him that not living together will cut down on time for sex and that he says we need time apart to heal and cleanse ourselves- yet he still want sex every other day. ? I was as gentle as I could be but I really just want to scream- u are f**king someone else- why would I want to let you touch me?

[Clearmind]

Pecia, sex and intimacy are two different things. My ex said the same thing your husband did. The facts are, if we remove the emotion - in order to feel and want to have sex - especially for a woman - we need to feel loved, protected and there needs to be mutual trust and admiration. My guess is you don't trust your husband, you may even get blamed and accused --- this is not a good precursor to sex with intimacy.

There is so much more going on here pecia, re: your sex life - lack of sex is only part of it…try not to focus on that... look past it and look at limitations of the relationship that lead to issues around sex, intimacy and spending time together. He is emotionally immature and see sex as the precursor to all…its not... good sex life is the result of a good relationship... the good relationship must always come first then the rest naturally follows.

[pecia]

Thanks for the reply

I understand that there is more to life than sex. He doesn't seem to. He automatically interprets me not throwing myself at him as he must be undesirable physically - which is far from the true. A million times I have attempted to explain to him that I love him, I think he is beautiful - but when he treats me like crap and shows zero caring - I usually have zero desire. Inconsiderate, mean behavior, and having affairs doesn't get me in the mood. . He cannot compute this. I think this is why he seeks meaningless affairs with fat ugly girls (my personal opinion of them). They are more than willing to stroke his ego and throw themselves whenever he is anywhere near them. They require no special care or love - I do. The fact that this lack of caring led me to cheat emotionally  boggles his mind. He swears I must have had sex with this other man - when in fact I didn't. I just sought out someone who cared if I had a bad day or a good day. I got compliments from the other man on more than just my boobs. It wasn't that the other guy was more attractive or better in anyway - other than he showed some kindness and caring. And to beat all - this was over 2 years ago. My husband has cheated for at least the past 8 years - maybe always, with who knows how many random women. Once they start putting out - he starts to fixate on them and give them his sweet infatuation attention while I am left with the scraps. Therefore, I don't trust the man as far as I can see him. But, I love him - maybe because I am codependent or just from the sheer timeframe of 18+ years. My brain knows I could do better, that I deserve better. I just cannot bear the thought of abandoning him. I get stuck in the fog sometimes. And sometimes I just see the potential he has. And as everyone on here knows - when it is good - it is really good and when it is bad - it is horrid. I sent him an article today on pulling bad memory files out on me for no apparent reason. He responded ok to it. I am learning how to better read his mood and when to try and discuss serious things. I am also learning not to take everything so personally. I am not the source of his pain - the disorder is. Cuts down on my guilt significantly. Still part of me wonders if I could even tolerate a normal relationship. All I have ever known my whole life is dysfunction. Normal men scare the hell out of me. Thanks mom and dad. My heart feels lighter now. Thanks for the validation

[Clearmind]

The fact that hubby has cheated for 8 years is a tell tale sign pecia! I completely understand that you love him – at what stage is it likely that hubby may not change and that maybe you need to.

Our Borderliner partners all have potential however I could no longer wait for that to come to fruition. I could not change my partner, because his illness was not about me at all.

The fact you have acknowledged that your past has been dysfunctional is very interesting pecia and worth exploring. So was mine and I also chose BPD’s. Maybe its time to concentrate less on him and more on healing you – this will lead you to an answer of what this relationship actually means to you.

As we heal from our own wounds we begin to realize how hard it is for our BPD partners to face their own wounds. We can and do acknowledge our shortcomings and can and do heal. Our partners are not so intuitive and have more obstacles to over come - this takes intense therapy.

If we were to look at the reality of our marriages/partnerships - how long can you wait for the potential to shine? And will our partners be willing to seek intensive therapy to reach that potential - for themselves?

[pecia]

Clearmind,

Hello again. I honestly don't know how long I am willing to wait to see a change. He is at least occasionally talking calmly to me now. And I think I am getting better at realizing when he is getting triggered and stopping the conversation before it escalates. I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about what caused me to be so attracted to him - especially considering how blatantly obvious it was that he was disordered. Many people got duped into a relationship believing the BPD was some perfect person. Not me. I grew up with a severely abusive family. My dad beat me and tried to molest me. I took care of my alcoholic mother, to include cleaning up her vomit and urine, as well as tolerating her extreme verbal abuse. I watched them beat each other weekly. I lived being told I wasn't good enough. Getting C's in school resulted in severe punishment and being told I was stupid. I got acne and was told I was ugly. I grew boobs and they teased me for looking like Dolly Parton. I wasn't allowed to have opinions or needs. I came last. No matter what I did - it was never good enough. I took care of my little brother because no one else would. I was 16 when I met my husband and he was in love with my best friend. He was a drug addict, alcoholic, and teen parent. But he told me I was smart, and beautiful, and that he loved my flaws. He said he would protect me and care for me. My partner for life. Everyone said he was crazy and violent and most people were scared of him. He didn't scare me. I had already been through hell. I thought I tamed him. In doing that, I got some confidence that maybe I was strong and capable of saving someone. All pleas with my family to get better never got me anywhere. When I was 30, I finally told my mother that I loved her but I could not be a part of her life anymore because I was tired of watching her kill herself with drugs and alcohol. So, I know I am capable of totally detaching from a loved one. It just takes a lot before I get to that point. My husband quit drugs for me. He married me and told me that it was us against the world. That I brought him peace when no one else ever could. Well, that was all I needed to hear. I had positively impacted someone. Finally. I don't give up on people. And I find myself not being able to give up on him. Up until now, our communication skills sucked. We were passionate but volatile.  Now that I know what I am dealing with - it seems to be going smoother. He is starting to understand he has to do his part. I have a forgiving soul. I really do. And I understand what staying with him means. I don't want to be a martyr. I have also discovered that he does not like to be told that he has to solve his own problems. I have always done that for him. At least being separated has made him have to take care of his own life responsibilities. I think it shocked him that I am able to live without him here. He once read one of my journals that said I would be fine without him and that who I chose to see after he was gone or how I behaved was none of his business. It really upset him. Realizing that I would be ok has given me some of my power back. I am starting to realize that he isn't the end all of my life. It is just taking some time to un-enmesh after so many years. Maybe I will be able to stay with him. Maybe not. I am just taking it one day at a time and trying to put some boundaries into place where before I had none. Thank you for listening to me ramble - pecia

[Clearmind]

Goodness pecia – thank you for sharing your past! It’s so tough no doubt and an invalidating childhood certainly can a bearing on our adult choices.

Your hubby provided you with a lot of promise when you met – I would imagine being where you are at right now is heart breaking.

I so hear you about how we tried to gain back our self worth. I also spent a great deal of time “fixing” my past loves. It provided me with value because I spent a lot of my own childhood doing just that. I was conditioned from any early age to fix everyone else and neglect myself. I served and expected nothing in return – until such time as this servitude bit me in the butt and I got angry and got resentful for the choices only I had made.

When we are faced with situations with this it really helps to break down these hard to hear patterns of relating and begin to process them and build back our worth – I did this by understanding that my childhood was no fault of my own and I began to relinquish all responsibility for my BPD partner. I learnt to take care of me and I valued me more than the value I placed on fixing my ex.

Learning to live without being in a enmeshed relationship is hard and I commend you on your journey. I has taken me a bit of therapy and some hard work to get to the stage of being highly allergic to enmeshment and learning to set strong boundaries with those that compromise my worth, my value system and my morals. It takes courage.

Pecia, boundary setting is a very good start. Learning to not walk on eggshells because you fear you may loose him is a barrier we all must overcome. You matter.

Remind yourself not to place your value on his behaviour. This was the case when you were a child - you had to comply - now being an adult we have adult privileges and that includes being open and vocal about our needs.