how to politely

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

How should I politely turn down my recent ex when he suggests doing something together?  He wants to have a meal here at the house on new year's eve.  I know the kids are happy when we do things together, but I think new year's eve is a slippery slope and I don't want to deal with him emotionally right now.  I am going to say that I think we shouldn't do anything major tog ether right now.  Don't know how else to put it. 

[momtara]

How should I politely turn down my recent ex when he suggests doing something together?  He wants to have a meal here at the house on new year's eve.  I know the kids are happy when we do things together, but I think new year's eve is a slippery slope and I don't want to deal with him emotionally right now.  I am going to say that I think we shouldn't do anything major tog ether right now.  Don't know how else to put it. 

[newlymarried]

A short reply is best. Just say "No thank you." He doesn't get an explanation. You are divorcing.

[livednlearned]

Are you concerned that he will dysregulate? Or are you worried that he will ignore your request and show up regardless of your wishes?

A lot of us (nons) and pwBPD got into these high-conflict relationships because we had bad (or no) boundaries, learned in our FOO and carried over into our marriages. This is a good opportunity to set a boundary with him. Like newlymarried said, keep it simple and there is no need to offer an explanation. You're divorced... .

[ForeverDad]

Recently my ex has a couple times offered to do something together.   Once was after our son's 5th grade graduation for ice cream with her friend and the kids.  Another was Thanksgiving Day at the house  of a friend of hers.  Both times I declined.

I didn't state why but I knew it would be too easy for me to tell her friend how my ex still threatens, when in a foul mood thanks to inconsistent BPD, to call the police if I come to her parking lot.  Or before that when she made repeated allegations of child abuse, etc.

My ex can partition her life that way, I can't - or won't.  I just don't want to go there.  I do feel a little 'guilted' but not that much.

[atcrossroads]

Ugh.  How did you do with this Momtara?

[momtara]

I just said I didn't think we should spend lots of time together right now.  Implying that maybe someday.  He still thinks we may get together someday.  I do think anyting's possible, as he's in counseling.  But I don't want to start doing stuff now, as he'll get the message to push for more and more. 

[livednlearned]

I just said I didn't think we should spend lots of time together right now.  Implying that maybe someday.  He still thinks we may get together someday.  I do think anyting's possible, as he's in counseling.  But I don't want to start doing stuff now, as he'll get the message to push for more and more. 

momtara, you have a big heart. You are divorced, and yet still have hope that the two of you will be back together. This may be the most difficult type of relationship status possible, not only for you and your kids, but for everyone who knows you. Being divorced with the hopes of being together again is very confusing, for you and for your ex, and it could create lasting psychological problems for your girls and their chance at developing healthy relationships when they get older. It will take tremendous self-awareness, strength and excellent boundaries to pull this off, and a very deep understanding of BPD, codependence, and boundary busting. When BPD relationships end and couples stay in contact, boundary busting is the most common behavior. You experienced that recently when your ex wanted to get physical and you rebuked him. He drove off and left you abruptly, leaving without the baby, and it affected visitation, your plans for the weekend, and it made you feel so hurt. Do you see that he is responding to the mixed message he's getting? He thinks there is a possibility, and he will continue to test your boundaries in hurtful and troubling ways. The hardest are the extinction bursts, which tend to ratchet up when pwBPD feel a boundary. I wonder if you will experience even more of this than normal, and it makes me worried for you.

A lot of nons have deep issues and problems with intimacy. It's our side of the dynamic. Is it possible that you are choosing this mixed status because it insulates you from being intimate with someone else? It will be difficult, if not impossible, to open your heart to someone new in your life, including perhaps even deeper parts of yourself, if there are no clear boundaries with your ex.

[momtara]

My answer to this is complicated.  I think you are right on a few levels.  I am still walking on eggshells by not completely saying to him, "There's no chance we can ever be together again."  But my own therapist told me he saw no reason to say something like that - there is always the small small chance things can change.  He is also the father of my children, and I hate the idea of them having a stepdad or whatever. 

But he has said that if we were to ever get back together, it would be after years of therapy, which he knows.  All I have said is that there's a very small possibility, and one never knows what can happen in the future.  He is aware that it might not happen.    We still have to coparent together and I have to see him no matter what.  BUT you are right, I do fear new relationships, and think a lot of people out there have their own creepy problems.

That said, when he does things like what he did this weekend, it makes me realize how sick he really is.  There's very little chance we can ever be together.  I also worry how far he could go for revenge if I did someday meet someone new.  I am not focusing on that right now, as nice as it would be to find someone normal.   My focus for the time being is to protect and take good care of the kids. 

[livednlearned]

That said, when he does things like what he did this weekend, it makes me realize how sick he really is.  There's very little chance we can ever be together.  I also worry how far he could go for revenge if I did someday meet someone new.  I am not focusing on that right now, as nice as it would be to find someone normal.   My focus for the time being is to protect and take good care of the kids. 

You have lots of time to figure this out. Focusing on the kids is great, but focusing on you is also important. Focusing on you will help you meet someone normal. Normal people are out there. Most likely, it will happen when you aren't looking for him, when you are just... .ready. It took me 2 years after leaving N/BPDx before I could date, or even imagine being with someone, and then, the bigger problem turned out not that he was normal, but I was afraid of experiencing genuine intimacy. Never had it before, so I was terrified. It's been a year now, and it's the healthiest relationship I've ever had. I have no male friends, all my coworkers are women, my instructors at school are all women. And then this guy shows up with his dog and hello normal. Be open to it happening to you   so it can happen.

But about untangling what is complicated... .the more clear you are, the better it will be for you. It's a process, it's ok if it takes a while. Keep working through your values. It's ok if they conflict. Just knowing what they are, and knowing that they conflict can help you. Values = boundaries. Usually we feel conflict when we have conflicting values. That makes it harder to have clear boundaries. Which leads to more conflict with your ex. Which hurts you.

[Skip]

I might call him and talk about your interest and the importance of having a solid relationship for the children and for the two of you that may eventually range anywhere from friendly ex to possibly something else or possibly not... its OK to share your thoughts on this and be honest.

Generally the way to rebuild a high conflict relationship is to have a period of therapeutic separation - many therapists even suggest parallel parenting the first year with the intent of slowly moving into a co-parenting situation thereafter.  This is a successful model.

Talking through therapeutic separation and agreeing would be best - or you just nicely say this is the model you want to follow - or a hybrid.  

In a therapeutic separation, usually the therapists are dialed in (this is important), and there are ground rules (like no dating).  There is typically a mandatory NC period - might be 6 weeks if I remember - and you come together in a joint counsellings session.

The one good thing about this is that it reduces the abandonment anxiety on both sides.  In this sense, the thing you would do to recovery the relationship is very similar to the thing you would do to leave it - at least in the first 6 weeks - and you have alone time to process the difference and gain perspective.

Ask your therapist about this.

A structured plan will likely work in all areas better than playing it by ear.

[momtara]

That's kind of interesting.  I never heard anything before or read something here about how to structure a relationship AFTER the divorce.  I think that's useful.  Thanks.  Livedandlearned, thanks to you too.