Sad new member

[cincin]

I come to this sight very overwhelmed and very sad. It has taken me a couple of years to come to the realization that my 26 yr old daughter very likely has BPD. Ironically, I am a retired mental health counselor who had worked with several People with BPD. My daughter has been treated for depression, bipolar disorder and ADD for about 6 years now. It is only recently that my husband and I have come to this realization that personality disorder, most likely BPD, is what we see in our child. I'm sure the holidays can highlight the symptoms. When we spend time with her and other family members, we see almost constant manipulation, misperception of situations, triangulation and drama to the hilt. She idealizes, devalues, goes from 0 to 100 with intensity of emotions and can not bear to feel rejected or abandoned while she pushes everyone away with her actions and thus fulfills her belief that others are mistreating her. Suicidal threats are frequent. Neither my husband or I, or her sister can understand the etiology. I know that many people with BPD have been abused as a child but this is not the case with her. She did have a long time boyfriend (since age 16) who got involved with steroids and other drugs and became physically abusive. She broke up with him 3 years ago. Instead of getting better as she ages she is getting worse. She loves her psychiatrist who has not a clue as to what we are dealing with. I want to give her info about our daughter but dread the blow up that would happen should she found out we provided the doc with info. We recently talked to her as a family ( sort of an intervention) and explained that we would call an ambulance from now on and would not allow her to talk her way out of the suicidal comments, as she usually does. I really want her to do DBT but the closest therapists are 45 minutes away and her job is on the line now. I just needed to vent. Her Dad and sister look to me for help and it is very hard for me to step back and be objective. I blame myself for not beings better amok and I am currently the target of her hate because I call her out on her manipulation so much. I hope to learn from others here and I thank you for reading this.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Surnia]

Hi cincin

and 

What a though story brought you here, cincin. I am so sorry what you have to go through with your daughter.

You are not alone here, you will see. So many members are in similar shoes.

Is your daughter living in her own household or with you?

Please stay tuned, cincin! 

[lever.]

This is so similar to my experience. I have been watching these boards for a long time and have learned a lot from other people's advice. I thought things were improving but everything blew up over the holiday. When frequent suicide threats and attempts were a feature things improved when I made it clear that I would just call the emergency services every time. I stopped giving a lot of attention in the aftermath of an overdose and gave support at other times. The suicide threats reduced and then stopped. However the interpersonal difficulties have remained and Christmas turned into a nightmare ( see my first post -de-lurking for advice). What is distressing me now is that 3 young children are involved. and I am being kept from contact.  Just writing it down helped and knowing that there are other people who can relate to the situation. I have also worked in mental health services but it doesn't make it easier when it invilves your own family, does it?

[lever.]

PS I meant to say that I had the same experience with the psychiatrist and also with other people who be-friended daughter. Any attempt to give information behind her back even though intended for her benefit turned out to be a huge mistake and came back to bite me on the bottom. Be very careful and try to be direct with her.

[cincin]

Thank you Surnia. I hope it will help us. She lives alone but nearby. Lever, I can not imagine how hard it would be with small children involved. You have to protect them from those outbursts as much as possible. For years I recommended the book, Walking on Eggshells, to others. Ironically, two family members have used that terminology this weekend to describe their interactions. Are there any newer books that either of you know of that can help the person with BPD gain some insight?

[Surnia]

Hi Cincin

Good boundaries are important and not reinforce bad behavior, I think you probably know this yourself. What you and your family decided regarding suicide is spot on.  What about validation?

As for books to bring insight to the person suffering of BPD: I think this can easily backfire.

The members here on this board have more knowledge: Parenting a son or daughter suffering from BPD board.

Take care, cincin.

[momtara]

You are a good person.  You will learn a lot here.  Welcome.

[cincin]

Thank you all. I am already learning from others. My husband and I are working together on this. He is better at validation than me and I'm better at setting boundaries. We all just want peace and we say to her that we want peace for her. This is frustrating to her because she doesn't know how to find it nor how not to make things worse for herself. Thanks for your kindness

[co.jo]

I have read most of the books, and am most of the way through Valerie Porr's Overcoming BPD which is for the family. I found it most useful, as it is up-to-date, and provides some of the latest brain research which helped me understand it all much better. I wish my daughter was in contact so I could try some of the techniques. It does give you hope as well.

I don't think mental health professionals get the whole picture unless they are involved in the crisis situations. That is where my daughter first heard the BPD suggestion, in the ER, and then she researched and diagnosed herself, which was a good way.So the suicide talk could lead to more appropriate interventions if it gets that far. From what I understand, it really takes someone specializing in DBT work and/or bPD to work effectively. The calm, intelligent person discussing things in the therapist's office can really hide the whole picture. I wish they would contact families but of course they don't.

Good luck!

[Bracken]

Hi CinCin

Welcome! I really empathize. My D is also 26 - and engages in the same behavior. She has been out of town, visiting her boyfriend - so we have been spared the usual Christmas rages and/or suicidal crashes. (Though she worked up a huge condemnation of me - for a truly insane reason -  just before leaving, on Christmas morning.)

It sounds like your D is  "high-functioning": lives by herself, has a job. My D can do well, too. She is in grad school now- (though she talks about quitting all the time.) Like your D, she has never been diagnosed with BPD. But ADD, anxiety, OCD, depression - yes.

I hope you will continue here in this Forum. And I hope we can all support and help each other. Best wishes -    - Bracken

[cincin]

Thank you co.jo I will check out that book. Bracken, we have had a Christmas upheaval for two years in a row now. Puts everyone in tears. Now she's being my pal and acting as if all is well. This despite the fact that her Dad and I have dealt with several texts and calls about how she just can't stay with her job, crying at work, wants to die, etc. She agreed to go to doc on Monday morn, has not been taking mood stabilizer. This I discovered when we had dinner together, b/c this week she has elevated me and devalued Dad ( it's usually the opposite).My husband is not in good health and her dependency and drama is affecting his health. I have appealed to her to stop leaning so heavily but she has no idea the effect her actions are having on him. This makes me so angry. I saw a video on here about how this is prolonged adolescence. She is just like a self-centered 14 year old. Does anyone else here censor what they say for fear of the elephant in the living room (suicide)? We have two friends who have lost their kids this way and it's our biggest fear. She knows this and uses it to her advantage.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Googie]

www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1572245131

The above link is for the workbook that both my daughter and I use.  Love it!  You should google DBT worksheets and a ton will pop up.  I can not afford to go to a therapist so I read and learn by using that green book as well as reading a bunch of great stuff online.

I am envious that your DD is out on her own.  My DD is currently hospitalized (8th time in less than 3 years) but will be residing in a therapeutic home as part of her transition back into society.  Our home was not a place any of us wanted to be when she would "cycle" as we call it.  Like a tornado.  Intense, scary, dangerous, but mostly I felt like I had somehow created all her pain and anger.  I know I am not the cause, but when I'm living in it up to my neck with no end in site, I felt like I was being punished and that I must have said or done something to trigger all of her sickness.

She is in a much better place now than she was a year ago.  So am I.  I put my foot down and took back my life when it got too hard to deal with and it's been the best thing to happen.  If she choses to throw her pills when she is visiting then she is told to get her stuff together to go back to her home, and that she can not and will not disrupt this home and instill fear in her siblings because she can.  I have had to do that 2 or 3 times, and one time I ended up bringing her back because she was able to process why she felt so unstable and apologized.

DBT, one nice thing for you a day, and remember that what you allow or put up with is what you end up with.  Take your control back and enjoy your life a day at a time.

Googie

[Bracken]

Hi again,

My D and I also spent time with some DBT workbooks - and they could certainly be helpful - not just for those with BPD, but for everyone! It is just all-round good advice.

However, it has been hard to get my D to stay interested or committed long enough, for DBT to make a difference.

CinCin, I know how it feels to have your D play favorites: sometimes it`s you, sometimes it`s your H. The ``Tools`` section of this site calls that Triangulation. That has been a big problem with our D. She used to go on and on with my H: ``Why don`t you divorce her!`` ( Referring to me.) But in the last couple of years, she is just as likely to favour me, and condemn my H. Because H - who is a phenomenally loving, caring guy - is at this point getting worn out and fed up with our D. He will react very harshly sometimes. (Though he is always still there to help her out - as I am.) My H also has health problems - and I am sure that the severe unpleasantness and stress caused by D make it all much worse.

A positive factor - that has greatly reduced  D`s Triangulation -  is that H and I have figured out how critically important it is, for us to be on the same page with D. In the past - when we are all  so busy in our individual lives and all living together in a crowded house - it was impossible for H and me to communicate and consult with each other adequately, regarding our D. So she could easily manipulate us.

My D26 is also an adolescent - when at her best! In a rage, she is about 3 years old. And yes, suicidal talk has been an enormous fact of our lives. She goes on about how she has NEVER been happy. Very heartbreaking for a mother to hear. She also has developed this new approach to suicidal talk - which is much more chilling than when such talk was very agitated or emotional. Lately, her suicidal talk appears terribly calm, rationalistic, thoughtful. She has gone into great detail about how she would do it. She has asked us to help her do it -

Even on this Forum, I feel pretty bad about sharing this horror. Hope it`s okay.

But- at this particular moment - my D is probably as close to happy as she ever gets. Visiting her BF. We just live moment to moment. (Though we still try to have belief in the future.) Is that what is meant by ``radical acceptance`` I wonder --

Take care, everyone   

[MammaMia]

cincin

What is the psychiatrist treating your daughter for?  As a mental health professional, you are aware that many are reluctant to diagnose BPD.  :)o you know if her therapist has training in BPD therapy?  I suspect your dd may not be sharing the entire picture of her disorder.

This must be very frustrating for you.  If your dd likes her dr, she may be reluctant to change therapists ... . and he/she may be reluctant to suggest a BPD specialist  because some therapy is better than none and your dd may reject a change.

I have a dBPDs 39 and know exactly what you are going through.  He was diagnosed 4 years ago after refusing treatment his entire adult life.  He had a year of intensive therapy for alcoholism and BPD.  Currently lives on his own with no therapy.  He is unable to keep a job or stand to be around people.  I am his source of support in every way, and half the time he hates me.

Please know that we understand your frustration and are here to help in any way we can.  It is so difficult to deal with an adult child with BPD.  We live in frustration and fear.  We must learn to accept what we cannot change and this means hard work on the part of anyone who loves a pwBPD.  

Stay strong and please take care of yourself. 

[cbcrna1]

I find it hard to believe that her therapist does not know.  Although BPDs are chameleons I can't imagine that time and events would not point to BPD loud and clear.  I believe that my daughter was diagnosed and told when she was 17.  I had sent her to a therapist then, but her sessions were confidential.  I did not find out about her diagnosis till several years ago.  She is 36 now and we have been NC or mininal contact for 3 years.  I went to a therapist for my own grief and overwhelming loss due to our relationship deterioration.   Bpd is an attachment disorder.  She attaches to her perceived "good" in another person.  That attachment can not stand up to reality.  She will eventually "split" feeling persecuted, abandoned and with a life and death need to self protect.  You need boundaries, you need to nourish yourself, your family, and your other relationships.  She needs to find herself.  I have hope it is possible. 

[jellibeans]

Cincin

I want to suggest you read Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr... . excellent book that I reread over and over again.

When I look at your situation I really try and see the positive... . now that you suppect BPD you can begin to improve things with your dd. I think there are many on this site that went years without a DX so now that you know what you are dealing with you can prepare yourself.

Have you thought of a family therapist? A place where you can all together about what is going on? This might be a good place to start rather than her personal therapist. Have you looked at some of the lessons here? I found that I really can only change myself so changing how I interact with my dd help reduce the conflict and the drama and SI.

Welcome here and please keep posting.

[cincin]

Hello everyone, this is an update since last post. I decided to send my d's psych. An informative letter before her appt. I penned it, then H read it before we sent it. I told her I knew she couldn't respond and figured she may share with D. I had learned from my husband that our D was overtaking a benzo. ( this doc inherited the problem from the first doc that prescribed it)and at the end of the month she was seeking his Valium. We shared that and also our suspicion of personality disorder, our frustrations, etc. we just laid it out there.

  The doc called while D was still there. She determined then that she must titrate her off and also stop her ADD med b/c they were fighting each other. She believed this was the cause behind her extremes and said after ending both meds she would get a better idea of how to medicate her depression and if she still needed a mood stabilizer. D had a choice of going to hospital or coming home where we would titrate her down ourselves, keeping total control of her meds.D chose us (scary) but has not been the least bit argumentative. She seems relieved. The doc read the letter and surprisingly my D only said "I think you exaggerated". The doc gave her phone number with D's permission and warned of withdrawal symptoms to tell her about immediately.i know things are going to get worse before getting better but at the moment this was the best scenario. My H and I have been reading lots of info here and are definitely on the same page. Already we see her giving up sooner then usual on the triangulation. I also explained triangulation to her, to which she rolled her eyes but I think it sunk in. When she started to cry today about going to work I said " here's your meds, wash your face and get to work." That was hard to do but I swear those tears dried up immediately. I think she was much more capable of getting to work than I thought. Thanks for all the help and support.

[Angelsparkles]

Hi Cincin

I too have a 22 year old daughter who has recently been diagnosed with BPD - I am heartbroken for her. I cried for three weeks straight, and have now stopped (Still a little leak occasionally!)  I wrote a letter to her psychiatrist detailing many things we had noticed and experienced with her over the recent years. Knowing that she would be livid if I just sent it to him, I gave it to her to read,and asked her to give to him on her next ward round. She never gave it to him. It's so hard isn't it?

However, my daughter has found a DBT workbook to be really helpful. She is finding coping strategies for coping with her ever-circling emotions. This may help your daughter?

[jellibeans]

cincin

That is some good news and a few steps forward for you and your dd. Please keep reading and keeping an eye out for your dd. I have had the worst time with my dd when meds were changed or added. Brace yourself and stay the course. Things will level out and improve. please keep us posted.

[Fudge67]

Hello Cincin,

I am new here too and can readily identify with you. I also come from a mental health back round with a daughter whose behaviors are BPD. I just got the book "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" I have started reading it and it already is speaking to me. One of the things I love already is how it acknowledges that the person who spends the time with the BPD person is always on duty like 24/7, never getting a break and how that can impact that person or those persons. It has robbed me of my health. My daughter is 21 and knows she has issues but is not ready to call them BPD. In fact she balled me out for that. We have at least gotten her to stop and think about her out of control behavior after she loses it and she will apologize. It took my husband and I years to get that out of her. I haven't had it quite at the level you are at right now because we haven't had the law involved yet. Not saying that won't ever happen because it could. My husband is also very involved in dealing with my daughter just as yours is. They are a blessing aren't they.  It is so nice to have a place to go and talk with people when things feel really crazy. I have one of the other books on the reading list on it's way. My daughter is currently reading and working through a book about loving her self. She is finding it hard and when she voices that I tell her it is ok that she finds it difficult that it is not easy to change and for her to take her time with it, that she will get there. When I got her that book she didn't want to do it at first but that was 4 months ago. She decided to give it a try a month after I gave it to her and works the book a bit at a time. I hope this board is helpful to you. I am finding it very helpful.

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Hi Cincin 

I haven't posted in a while.  When my DD 23 has a raging meltdown, I usually come here.  I know exactly how you feel.  Currently, I'm just numb and I don't want to cry because I won't be able to stop.

The most recent episode happened last week; however, as usual, the drama just keeps building to include every family member.  My daughter is basically addicted to drama.  The drama is now worse because she quit her job a year ago and has nothing to do.

I took DD on a quick weekend get away.  BIG MISTAKE!  Too much time together and she became angry with me about me saying something about her spending (of course I paid for everything).  Her screaming and ranting resulted in her packing her bags, walking out of the hotel and took the next flight home.  Leaving me there alone.  I took a flight home the next day.

As always, she's involved my husband, her brother, her brother's girlfriend, my DD's husband... . the list goes on.  Unfortunately, she'll probably keep me from seeing my beautiful grandson (that's how it usually goes).

The stress on my husband & I is awful.  We're both a wreck.

It really helps coming here.  I'm so glad I found this site a while back.  It helps to know or understand why BPD's behave this way.

JustWantMyJoyBack

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

That situation, justwantmyjoyback sounds so similar to many situations that have happened in my family. SO upsetting. Yes coming on here has been so helpful when things are stressful and has helped me to respond in a constructive way rather than react. Valerie Porr's book is interesting and is helping me try out a new way of responding which is slightly different and more weighted towards validation. Difficult sometimes when you are upset yourself and all the family are drawn into a drama. That's when the boards are so useful to give time to get support and stop to think.