Moving out with kids?

[Soulsisters]

You are doing great with all of your planning.

I didn't do any of it and lost everything.  Everyone has been giving you great advice.

You mentioned the phone, and if he can see deleted text messages.

This answer I do know.  Yes yes yes he can.  Go get a new phone with a different carrier.  He can still find any of your old text messages pretty easily if he wants to though.  But new ones moving forward you may be safer.

My x hired a team of hackers to infiltrate my world for months and months.  The damage was severe. Be very careful with every bit of communication. 

When you leave you need to move very quickly with divorce proceedings.  I would have been better off if things would have been swift. 

Be careful and run like hell.  He will hurt you, but you could help minimize your losses.

Good luck

[nevaeh]

So... . tomorrow is the day.

Yesterday I set up my own bank account and know exactly what I need to do to get money moved over to the new account.  The woman who helped me was wonderful and told me I can just call her directly and she will move the money for me so I don't actually have to go to the bank to do it.

Today I have a long list of things to do:

• I am taking pictures of everything in the house.



• I did inventory of the silver coins as well as took pictures as best I could.



• I am moving boxes of pictures out of the house.  I went through them a couple of weeks ago and are already kind of organized.



• I have a hard drive backup of our laptop that I did a couple of weeks ago.  It will go in my box.



• I am taking savings bonds, car title, birth certificates, social security cards, etc.



• I am going to the safe deposit box at the bank to take pictures of whatever is there.  I think it is just title info for our house/land, but just want to make sure I know what's there.



• I am going to lunch with a friend who left her abusive husband a couple of years ago... . for moral support



• I started a letter to my husband that I need to finish. I don't know how this will go tomorrow and there are things I want to make sure I say and am not sure if I'll be able to say everything.



• I will make an appointment with my lawyer to go in early next week to sign the disso papers and get the process going.

I still don't know exactly how this will all play out.  I am scared to death.  Mostly scared about taking the money from the account.  That will be a HUGE trigger for him and I'm not sure what kind of reaction that will cause. 

I have been forcing myself to take every single step.  I have mini panic attacks every time something comes up but I am forcing myself to move ahead.

Lots of deep breaths... . I am so nervous.

[Waddams]

I know it's scary, but you can do it.  And when it's done with, you'll be better for it.  There's something empowering about facing a fear and beating it. 

I'd tell as few people as possible your new address.  He's going to hound people to try to find you.  And have a list of places for visitation exchanges picked out.  At least at first, it's probably better to meet in a public place to exchange kids.  or at the police station.

What about schools?  I wouldn't put a new address on file with the schools yet.  He might go in and see the update and get it that way.  I also would be careful with mail forwarding through the post office.  Maybe set up a PO box for forwarding mail to?

Do you think there's a risk he could become violent after you leave?

[livednlearned]

I'll be thinking about you 

You have planned as much as you can and that can go a long, long way to helping you stabilize. When I took money out of my joint account, my L said that the alternative is N/BPDx taking ALL of the money out of the account, which she has seen happen over and over in many high-conflict divorces.

You are protecting yourself, not trying to hurt him. We forget that, those of us who endure abusive marriages, because we're so used to being told that THEIR hurt feelings are OUR fault. It doesn't work that way. You are taking care of yourself and being fair. He is going to feel hurt and abandoned, and he is responsible for his feelings.

Nice touch to have lunch with someone who has been through this 

How are you going to handle things with the kids? Do they know?

Also... . do not apologize in your letter to him. The letter I wrote to N/BPDx had to go through many revisions before I finally got it. The time to appease is over. My letter was 8 pages of listing the things that he did, almost like a factual account. The first version, I kept apologizing for how I didn't deserve him, how I just made him unhappy, etc. Then my therapist and I worked on it until I wrote exactly how I felt about his actions.

No matter what you write, he will be hurt and angry. So write the letter for yourself.

Good luck tomorrow.

LnL

[nevaeh]

I'll be thinking about you 

You have planned as much as you can and that can go a long, long way to helping you stabilize. When I took money out of my joint account, my L said that the alternative is N/BPDx taking ALL of the money out of the account, which she has seen happen over and over in many high-conflict divorces.

You are protecting yourself, not trying to hurt him. We forget that, those of us who endure abusive marriages, because we're so used to being told that THEIR hurt feelings are OUR fault. It doesn't work that way. You are taking care of yourself and being fair. He is going to feel hurt and abandoned, and he is responsible for his feelings.

Nice touch to have lunch with someone who has been through this 

How are you going to handle things with the kids? Do they know?

Also... . do not apologize in your letter to him. The letter I wrote to N/BPDx had to go through many revisions before I finally got it. The time to appease is over. My letter was 8 pages of listing the things that he did, almost like a factual account. The first version, I kept apologizing for how I didn't deserve him, how I just made him unhappy, etc. Then my therapist and I worked on it until I wrote exactly how I felt about his actions.

No matter what you write, he will be hurt and angry. So write the letter for yourself.

Good luck tomorrow.

LnL

Good point about the letter.  The tone of the letter is basically how we both have had our faults in this marriage... . him with his anger issues, mine with enabling issues.  Also to tell him that I have been thinking about this for years and that I need to do this and it is really best for both of us.  And, there is no chance of me changing my mind.  I haven't decided if I am going to give it to him yet.  May not need to if I feel like I can get my thoughts out there.

This first step is just telling him I want the divorce.  That am seeing a lawyer next week to get the process going. 

The next step is figuring out which one of us will stay in the house - him alone or me with the kids.  If by some chance he decides he will move out, I will have to give him a deadline to say that if he isn't out by the first weekend in February I will move to my sister's house.  Otherwise I'm afraid he will just linger around and I will suffer with him being here.  Unless things get really bad, we will hopefully be able to co-exist in the same house at least for a few days.  If I have to I will take the kids to my moms or to a hotel but I really don't want to have to do that.

My D16 knows.  S13 and S9 do not know and I think this is going to be hard for them, particularly if they have to move.  I can deal with them better if H isn't here so we'll see how that goes.  I think life will be better for them if not living with dad every day, but they won't "get" that until a while down the road.  I have to remember to tell myself that they might be mad at me for a while but I am doing what is best for me and eventually for them as well.  D16 is on board.

I have planned as much as I could possibly plan and the rest will work out as I go along.  My friend said that the first few months will feel a bit like a fog, like you're watching someone else live your life.  But, she is so excited for me and knows that I will be so much better off.

I have it set up with my mom that I will text her the letter P if I need the police, B if things are going bad but I am handling it, or OK if things are going OK. 

I'll try to post an update tomorrow after I tell him.  I'm sure I'm going to need a place to unload. 

Thanks all... . can't tell you what it means to have so many helpers out there in cyber-land! 

[livednlearned]

That's so true -- the first months I felt like I was visiting my own life. I also felt incredible relief, and my emotions were so raw. It was almost freeing to feel things so vividly after years of stuffing my feelings so they didn't upset anyone. It's a real caterpillar-butterfly metamorphic time.

Ask your lawyer if your letter is ok to send. You don't want your good intentions to be used against you. You are going to change a lot in the next year, and what you write now may not reflect who you become. Also, your kids are going to see the letter, probably. My lawyer read my letter and made me take out two paragraphs where I basically said he supported me for 10 years. Her response, "He was your husband. That's what marriage is about. That's why we have laws."

Just something to think about. It's awkward going through this when the law is involved, but that's why we're here. To help you walk the fine line between the emotional stuff from the legal stuff.

LnL

[nevaeh]

That's so true -- the first months I felt like I was visiting my own life. I also felt incredible relief, and my emotions were so raw. It was almost freeing to feel things so vividly after years of stuffing my feelings so they didn't upset anyone. It's a real caterpillar-butterfly metamorphic time.

Ask your lawyer if your letter is ok to send. You don't want your good intentions to be used against you. You are going to change a lot in the next year, and what you write now may not reflect who you become. Also, your kids are going to see the letter, probably. My lawyer read my letter and made me take out two paragraphs where I basically said he supported me for 10 years. Her response, "He was your husband. That's what marriage is about. That's why we have laws."

Just something to think about. It's awkward going through this when the law is involved, but that's why we're here. To help you walk the fine line between the emotional stuff from the legal stuff.

LnL

Point well taken... . I think I will hold off on giving him the letter.  Thanks for the insight... .

[Soulsisters]

I wish you well

Try to be somewhere where he can't find you.

Brace yourself for the worst, but you sound very prepared I think you will do great!

I wish you the best of luck. Be strong

[whirlpoollife]

I will be looking for your post

[Nope]

Good luck! Hope it all goes as well as possible. Wish I'd seen this thread sooner. I'd have told you to have a tape recorder with you for the main event. Just in case.

[ForeverDad]

Ask your lawyer if your letter is ok to send. You don't want your good intentions to be used against you. You are going to change a lot in the next year, and what you write now may not reflect who you become. Also, your kids are going to see the letter, probably. My lawyer read my letter and made me take out two paragraphs where I basically said he supported me for 10 years. Her response, "He was your husband. That's what marriage is about. That's why we have laws."

Point well taken... .  I think I will hold off on giving him the letter.  Thanks for the insight... . 

I agree.  Be extremely careful about writing anything that he could twist into making you appear to be the problem.  You don't need to 'explain', that's more an issue on how you feel, closure on feelings will turn out to be best handled as a gift to yourself from yourself, you're unlikely to get it from your ex.

[livednlearned]

Ask your lawyer if your letter is ok to send. You don't want your good intentions to be used against you. You are going to change a lot in the next year, and what you write now may not reflect who you become. Also, your kids are going to see the letter, probably. My lawyer read my letter and made me take out two paragraphs where I basically said he supported me for 10 years. Her response, "He was your husband. That's what marriage is about. That's why we have laws."

Point well taken... .  I think I will hold off on giving him the letter.  Thanks for the insight... . 

I agree.  Be extremely careful about writing anything that he could twist into making you appear to be the problem.  You don't need to 'explain', that's more an issue on how you feel, closure on feelings will turn out to be best handled as a gift to yourself from yourself, you're unlikely to get it from your ex.

I wrote a very simple email the day I left saying, "S12 and I are safe, he will call you soon. I am filing for divorce, my attorney is L."

[nevaeh]

FOUR HOURS later... .

This happened exactly as I thought it would.

I drove around for 30 minutes trying to get up the courage to go back home to talk to him.  Got home, he wasn't there so I called him and told him I needed to talk to him so he came back home.

I told him I want a divorce.  He immediately replied NO!  Then came the begging, crying, negotiating, telling me we can be better, that he will not agree to this, that he acknowledges that he has problems and needs to work on them, that he needs to give me space to figure "me" out, that we need to rebuild intimacy, acknowledging that we never talk and that we need to be better about that.

Irritated that I saw a lawyer, but not mad.  Did not show any signs of anger whatsoever.  Just extreme desperation and sadness.

**SIGH**

We talked for FOUR hours.

He said he does not agree with this and that I am wrong.  He says that we can/should get couples counseling and really WORK on our issues "this" time instead of the half-ass effort we gave it the "last" time.  He is not going to give up on me.  He has known that since the day he met me that I was the one for him.  I am his "queen".  He does not see divorce as an option, at all, ever.  He will go to counseling with me.  He will sleep in another bed if I need him to.  He loves me with all of his heart.  He lives for me and the kids... . we are his entire world. 

I was as honest as I could be but not as much as I should have been... . WHY is that?  I told him from the beginning of the discussion that there would be no changing my mind, that I have decided what I want to do and am not willing to try and work on this marriage anymore.  I told him that we have been in this "place" so many times before that I already know what the outcome will be... . we will try really hard to make things better and then we will both fall in to old habits.  I told him that I am emotionally dead, that I am not able to be a wife to him or anyone else for that matter.  I laid it all on the table.  The problem is that as soon as he started showing his emotions I felt myself starting to cave.  I told him that I heard everything he said and that I had a lot to think about.  He says he doesn't believe me, that he thinks I'm just telling him that to appease him and then am going to come back in a couple of days and say that I'm done.  And, instead of just holding my ground I tell him I'm not appeasing him and that I really will think about it.  What the heck is wrong with me? 

I feel like I am going to be stuck in this marriage forever.  I am in my office at work now.  I kept my cool while talking to him, but lost it as soon as I got in the car and bawled all the way to work. 

I haven't moved the money yet.  Why?  I guess because I am trying to spare his feelings and not make it look like I'm TOO far along in this process.  Again, why?  Because I am trying to keep him on my good side and not put him on the defensive.  Heck, he even agreed to move the money over to my account and I told him he didn't need to.  I am flipping crazy, there is no other possible explanation.  I hate myself right now. 

[livednlearned]

nevaeh,

This BPD stuff is seriously hard stuff, not easy for anyone. If your relationship and intimacy patterns trace all the way back to your family of origin, then it's even more difficult. It's changing a lifetime of habits. I think it's about changing our entire definitions of who we are. No trivial matter! And in BPD relationships, our boundaries are constantly busted. It isn't easy to wake up one day and have boundaries, it's a process that takes time and healing. 

Your ex sounds like he has more waif traits, and that's a different kind of challenge. It's a boundary buster that in some ways can be harder to manage than aggression because puppy eyes are, well, puppy eyes.

I'm wondering if a therapeutic separation might give you the time and distance needed to manage this in stages? Here's a link to therapeutic separation on bpdfamily: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686.0;all

[Waddams]

I was just going to say that as long as you are close by, he'll continue to cling onto you instead of the do the work he needs to build himself into a healthy partner.  You're presence alone enables him. 

And vice versa, his presence alone will also contribute to you not being able to grow either.

I'm not saying it's over for good for your marriage, but my opinion is BPD relationships don't get better living in the same house.  I think distance and separation are helpful, and sometimes even necessary. 

Leaving will be good for you, but it's not necessarily the very end either. 

[ForeverDad]

I know how it is.  My then-spouse had been out of the house for a couple months, I had a temporary protection order and yet when we were in court I asked her if she wanted to reconcile.  However, she was not changing for the better and finally I realized my dreams and hopes really were over and long gone, I just hadn't accepted it yet...

He made promises.  Predictable.  You weakened.  Predictable.  However, you still have the option to do as you had resolved IF you don't trust his latest promises (that had never lasted for long in the past).  Do you really want to go through this merry-go-round again?  Do you really believe this time he will change?  Maybe he will change, maybe not, anythings theoretically possible, but will it be enough change to make the relationship a success?

The key to success is often this:  The person has to be changing for himself or herself.  Changing for someone else isn't a solution built on firm ground.

Remember, you have the option to review your decisions and choices and adjust them, don't feel they're written in stone, as though you're somehow more obligated today than you were yesterday.

Generally the hardest decision is whether to end it or not, once that is done the next steps on your chosen path are not nearly so difficult to take.

[CdnSunrise]

Hi nevaeh,

As we've discussed, our BPDh are very, very similar. I didn't have the same plan that you did, but when I left him, it was on a temporary basis and I told him I needed him to leave me alone while I thought things through. Of course, the begging, crying, manipulating of kids, etc, didn't stop, and that drove my final decision to ask for a divorce. It was easier to go there once I had some physical separation to see how unhealthy the situation was. During that time we both continued with counselling - BPHh even started going to church, was counselling with a minister, and went to a meditation retreat. Once I told him I wanted a divorce, all of that suddenly stopped. As my therapist said, he wasn't really interested in changing himself, his sole purpose was to win me back. No true and lasting change happens in a person's life if they're doing these things for the wrong reasons. I had to finally let go of the hope that he would be able to change in a meaningful way -- plus, I finally came to the realization that the relationship had nothing left for me. Time to take care of YOU, nevaeh.

[CdnSunrise]

One thing that is triggering me about your description of him seeing you as his "queen" - my BPDh said the EXACT same thing, but 2 days (or 2 weeks, whatever) later I couldn't do anything right and he was raging about the way I sliced cheese ? IT'S A LINE. You're on a pedestal one day, and knocked to the ground the next with your nose being rubbed in s**t. He truly might see you that way, but it doesn't mean that he truly loves you in a healthy, normal way. That emotional roller coaster is just hell and I'm so glad to be done with it! Although talking about it is making me cry. But thank God it's over for me and I hope it will be for you soon too.

[livednlearned]

One thing that is triggering me about your description of him seeing you as his "queen" - my BPDh said the EXACT same thing, but 2 days (or 2 weeks, whatever) later I couldn't do anything right and he was raging about the way I sliced cheese ? IT'S A LINE. You're on a pedestal one day, and knocked to the ground the next with your nose being rubbed in s**t. He truly might see you that way, but it doesn't mean that he truly loves you in a healthy, normal way. That emotional roller coaster is just hell and I'm so glad to be done with it! Although talking about it is making me cry. But thank God it's over for me and I hope it will be for you soon too.

I think this is why many of us stay so long. It's an abuse cycle -- just enough kindness at just the right moment to give us hope.

Taking some time apart to get some distance (and strength) might help you nevaeh. But just know that NOT leaving right now is not a failure. This is a process, not a project. Don't beat yourself up or feel weak. Really. This is hard stuff, not easy. It took me 4 years to plan, 1 year of really planning, and then things started to get scary and everything began closing in on me, until I panicked. In some ways, it's easier to leave when they are so cruel that it's not safe to stay.

We're here for you.   

LnL

[nevaeh]

  to you all!

[Soulsisters]

Be careful.

I hope you are ok

[nevaeh]

I am OK. 

He just constantly wants to "talk".  I'm getting the whole used car salesman pitch.  I feel for him but I finally told him that we have to stop talking about it because I need time to process everything.

He is understandably feeling desperate.  I get that.

I have been CRYSTAL clear that I still know what I want.

He was very upset last night because he told me three times (in a row) that he loved me and each time I responded "I know you do... . "  He was upset because I didn't say it back.  I told him I am not going to lead him on or give him false hopes.

Ugh.  I'm exhausted and irritated.

[Soulsisters]

You are in a tough spot.

Why dont you go out with your girlfriends to tonight, get drunk, and come back late?

That was always a sure fired way to make my x mad.  I am kidding, its just it is easy to know that you want to leave when they are jerks.  I always had a 10pm curfew like my sons.  Actually my oldest could stay out till midnight.  I stopped going out ever.

You are in the middle of the spin cycle and it makes you dizzy.  I thought I seriously had something wrong with me because I truly felt dizzy.  I went to the doctor and everything.  Then he went out of town and the dizzy stopped.  Crazy

I promise when you do go you will survive and feel better.  Not one dizzy spell since I left.

Take care

[livednlearned]

Do you think controlled contact might help?

Controlled Contact. Experts suggest that the best way to break away is to "Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The pwBPD" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.".

https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles10.htm

Controlled Contact works really well.  Often there is a little reaching by the other party at the beginning, but if we stay cool, the extinction burst depletes and the person lets go.

The biggest advantage of CC is that it phases detachment, a little at a time,  as both parties accept the distance.

[nevaeh]

Do you think controlled contact might help?

Controlled Contact. Experts suggest that the best way to break away is to "Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The pwBPD" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.".

https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles10.htm

Controlled Contact works really well.  Often there is a little reaching by the other party at the beginning, but if we stay cool, the extinction burst depletes and the person lets go.

The biggest advantage of CC is that it phases detachment, a little at a time,  as both parties accept the distance.

That's basically what I've been doing for the past 6 months, unfortunately.  If nothing else it has helped ME to detach.  He just accepted it as my version of acceptance that I wouldn't ever leave him and that we would just live like that, I guess.

It is a great suggestion though!  Just didn't work with my H.

[livednlearned]

Do you think controlled contact might help?

Controlled Contact. Experts suggest that the best way to break away is to "Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The pwBPD" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.".

https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles10.htm

Controlled Contact works really well.  Often there is a little reaching by the other party at the beginning, but if we stay cool, the extinction burst depletes and the person lets go.

The biggest advantage of CC is that it phases detachment, a little at a time,  as both parties accept the distance.

That's basically what I've been doing for the past 6 months, unfortunately.  If nothing else it has helped ME to detach.  He just accepted it as my version of acceptance that I wouldn't ever leave him and that we would just live like that, I guess.

It is a great suggestion though!  Just didn't work with my H.

Yeah, seemed like it from what you wrote.

Do you think that suggesting therapeutic separation to him might help? It's kinda flipping what therapeutic separation is for, because most people who try it are not actually wanting the relationship to end. But it might help you and your husband agree to physical distance for a trial period. See how you feel once you are on your own.

[Soulsisters]

If that is too much,

What about a vacation. Just so you can take it easy for a few.  You don't need to go to Mexico or anything, how about just going to a decent hotel for a week.  Just to be gone from the house?

The kids can still go to school and come back and swim and eat pizza while they do homework? 

It is just a thought.  When I had to leave my first 18 days were in a hotel.  My case was different.  But I remember using the hot tub with my headphones on and finally just going slower and relaxing.  I just think of you can get some distance you will find a strange sense of peace.  Tell him you need one week and he must respect that or you will never come back again.  He will do this for you now. 

Don't let him contact you at all except through email or text. 

Good luck,  I wish you well

[nevaeh]

He just called me at work and I was dumb enough to take the call.  1.5 hours later... . I finally just had to be rude and cut him off or he would have kept talking all day long.

He just won't stop talking.  I just want him to stop talking.

I told him towards the end of our conversation that if I were to even think about giving this a chance that the best option for me may be separation.  He absolutely does not want that and is saying anything he can to convince me otherwise.  But, I really don't think I can continue to live with him as he attempts to transform himself.  It all seems sincere (I know he is really hurting), but it also seems fake and desperate given the fact that he is only coming to the revelations because I told him I want a divorce.  He told me last night that he knows that it took a ton of courage for me to tell him I wanted to leave, and that he's asking me to stay, realizing that if I had the courage to tell him I wanted to go that he knows I have the courage to give him another chance by staying.

I told him that for me this is not about him, it is about me.  But he "needs" to make sure I understand that HE can give me the fuel I need to keep going, HE can prove to me that HE can be the person I deserve, that HE is willing to work on this, that HE can be a better person.  He says he understands that he has put me in this situation but that he really needs me to give him one more chance.

I just cannot picture myself trying to make this work.  I honestly am thinking about WHY I don't want to make it work.  I realize it would mean that I would have to make myself vulnerable, that I would have to share lots of things with him that I have never felt safe sharing with him, and that I would have to open my heart back up to him.  On the one hand, I think what could it hurt to try again?  What if he could be different?  But... . I don't love him!  I don't want to be with him, and I'm not even sure I want to be with him if he were to happen to change to be that different/better person.  He can't wrap his head around that.

Yes, separation is what I need.  He won't accept that.  So, I force separation despite his wishes, or I keep trying to get him to see that this is what I need.  The fact that he can't accept that I need a separation from him tells me that this is all selfishly driven.  On a base level I understand that he believes it would be impossible to make me see that he can be better if we aren't living together.  I get that.  But at the same time if he REALLY loved me maybe he could see how much pressure he is putting on me and that it would be best for ME if he were to step back. 

I do have a lot to process.  But, separation whether "temporary" or permanent is what I need.  Period.

[Nope]

I've been in a similar situation. Many years ago with a diagnosed bipolar boyfriend. He would not stop talking. He'd say the same thing over again five hundred times in different ways, he would butter me up by making me feel for at least a little while like I had some control over the situation and he would even go so far as to make me feel validated. The one thing he would not do was respect my decision.

You will never get him to "see" or agree with your reasoning. And all he needs to do is wear you down with all of his nonstop talking until doing anything but giving in is just too hard because you've already exhausted yourself having the discussion over and over again. You won't be done with this merry go round until you step off the ride.

[ForeverDad]

I've been in a similar situation... . He would not stop talking. He'd say the same thing over again five hundred times in different ways, he would butter me up by making me feel for at least a little while like I had some control over the situation and he would even go so far as to make me feel validated. The one thing he would not do was respect my decision.

You will never get him to "see" or agree with your reasoning. And all he needs to do is wear you down with all of his nonstop talking until doing anything but giving in is just too hard because you've already exhausted yourself having the discussion over and over again. You won't be done with this merry go round until you step off the ride.

In the past I sometimes have made this observation which I hope does not sound too blanket negative, it is meant to be objective and practical:  You can't reason with unreason.  If your ex doesn't or won't listen, you can't make him listen... . although that's what he's trying to do to you.

He needs to know that recovery is for him and not you or 'us'.  If he doesn't do it for himself, then treatment and therapy is less likely to work.

I recall that a prolific poster and moderator here in past years, JoannaK sometimes wrote that when the spouses got counseling and made progress toward recovery that often they both became different persons and saw the other differently through more balanced eyes... . and sometimes they decided they didn't have a future together.  For that reason also, neither of you should hope - or promise - that if your ex just seeks therapy and 'recovers' that you two can automatically get back together.