Leaving while staying -- the best of both worlds?

[spuds_mckenzie]

Me and my UBPDw of 13 years agreed to separate 3 months ago.  We are right at the crossroads and are going to talk later tonight.

On one hand, I am open to doing the work to rebuild the marriage, I could convince my wife if I wanted to, and I know my son would like it too.  We both agreed such a path would have to start with finding the friendship, which we once did have.  However there seems to be a consensus here that marriage to BPD usually doesn't work, and when it does it usually becomes all about taking care of the BPDso's needs.  I already feel crazy after the past several years and I don't think I can take the verbal abuse and blaming anymore unless she changes or I make a radical change to learn how to adapt.  Her view is that I have to change (!)

On the other hand, I'm open to divorce.  I'd definitely go that route without hesitation if we had no kid, as I tired from all this, am not looking for a relationship, and would prefer to have her out of my life.  But I have my son to consider.  A divorce would pose the problems of me either having to give her sole custody or fighting for joint custody, which are all troublesome areas to get into and could spill over and hurt our son (partly due to the conflict and the way the courts work).

I'm thinking what minimizes the collateral damage is remaining separated, living in different houses, and basically try to work toward the goals in "L5: Staying" without the horrors of living under the same roof.  I can probably live with that.  I'm wondering whether this is a realistic goal to work toward with a BPD, if others are doing it, and if there's anything I need to know or talk to my UBPDw about.

[karma_gal]

Me and my UBPDw of 13 years agreed to separate 3 months ago.  We are right at the crossroads and are going to talk later tonight.

On one hand, I am open to doing the work to rebuild the marriage, I could convince my wife if I wanted to, and I know my son would like it too.  We both agreed such a path would have to start with finding the friendship, which we once did have.  However there seems to be a consensus here that marriage to BPD usually doesn't work, and when it does it usually becomes all about taking care of the BPDso's needs.  I already feel crazy after the past several years and I don't think I can take the verbal abuse and blaming anymore unless she changes or I make a radical change to learn how to adapt.  Her view is that I have to change (!)

On the other hand, I'm open to divorce.  I'd definitely go that route without hesitation if we had no kid, as I tired from all this, am not looking for a relationship, and would prefer to have her out of my life.  But I have my son to consider.  A divorce would pose the problems of me either having to give her sole custody or fighting for joint custody, which are all troublesome areas to get into and could spill over and hurt our son (partly due to the conflict and the way the courts work).

I'm thinking what minimizes the collateral damage is remaining separated, living in different houses, and basically try to work toward the goals in "L5: Staying" without the horrors of living under the same roof.  I can probably live with that.  I'm wondering whether this is a realistic goal to work toward with a BPD, if others are doing it, and if there's anything I need to know or talk to my UBPDw about.

I have more questions than answers right now, so I'll probably drive you nuts. 

Are you guys separated currently?

You've been together a while and I assume have lived through the highs and lows of all things BPD.  Why in the world would you be interested in jumping back in now that you're free, or freedom is on the horizon?  I mean no disrespect; I am just thinking, man, if I ever get out, there is NO WAY I would go back. 

So you and I and everyone here knows the likelihood of her getting the extensive treatment she needs and making changes is about as likely as us hitting the lottery, so that means you will be responsible for changing, adapting, coping, surviving.  Are you really up for all that for the very little you get in return?

Aside from custody issues with your son, is there any other reason you would be willing to put yourself in the line of fire again?  Do you think she would just agree to joint custody so that you won't have to go through a custody battle?  If it comes to that, would you be willing to request that she undergo a psych eval as part of the process? 

How old is your son?  If he's old enough, what has his opinion of the separation been if it's already happened? 

I don't think there's any easy answers. Like most of us, you have some longevity in your marriage, lots of time and money and heartache invested, and a son.  I would just say that whatever you decide, make sure that your son is able to see a strong role model.  So if you stay, let him see you stand up for yourself and handle business, not see you getting raged at and being a doormat.  If you separate, be awesome and focus on yourself and having a solid relationship with your son.  The worst thing that could happen is you stay, things remain status quo, and your son grows up thinking this is a normal relationship and thus seeks to recreate it when he's older, keeping the cycle going. 

[karma_gal]

Sorry I forgot something.

So I totally see what you're saying about how remaining married but living in separate houses can mitigate some of the issues that come from either of the other decisions on the table.

Seriously, though, think long and hard about what you would be giving up by choosing that option.  You would forever be married to her, just not living with her, and not free to go find someone with whom you are more compatible and who can love you the way you deserve to be loved.  If she goes on a spending spree, kills someone in a drunk driving accident, runs up hospital bills because she attempts suicide -- whatever -- you will be responsible.  Your wife has BPD; what are the chances she is going to remain faithful under this scenario?  Then you would have the heartbreak of worrying about her cheating to deal with as "punishment" for something she is sure you did wrong that justifies it. 

I know it seems like it would be a great option, but I'm quickly learning that no option is a good option with dealing with pwBPD.  They ALWAYS find a way to inject chaos, drama, and get us to take responsibility for their stuff. 

[spuds_mckenzie]

Thanks much, I appreciate the fresh perspective.

Yes, we are currently separated.  We've been living apart for 3 months and for the most part it has gone smoothly, though we had a toxic argument during a visit this weekend.

My reasoning is actually mentioned right in the top post in the Decision Guide: "For example, it might be more conservative to work at it again with better knowledge, than to get a divorce and leave a child behind with a BPD mother."  I guess that's exactly it.  As far as being financially responsible for her, my willingness to do that is unchanged, and there have never been any infidelity dynamics in our marriage and I am not prone to a lot of jealousy.  If it got to that point, we'd just break up the marriage rather than fight about it.

However the yelling, blame, and drama do have to stop.  I'll probably have the space I need to cope with it and now that I've found this board I may be able to handle things better.  Once my kid is grown, however, or if it gets worse, then I'll definitely move towards divorce, no question.

[spuds_mckenzie]

However the yelling, blame, and drama do have to stop.

Actually I realize this will not happen, but maybe there is hope for less of it, or for me not to react.

[karma_gal]

What does your wife want, at least as far as you know? 

I totally see how it can be better for a child to remain in the home with both parents where the non can protect them, versus being alone for any extended periods with the pwBPD.  Do you think you could get full custody with her having limited visitation, or is she pretty adamant about retaining sole custody? 

[spuds_mckenzie]

She has been trying to feel me out to see what I want, which is good.  She is on the fence.  She says she prefers to be friends, and if we can't, it complicates things since our son wants us to have a life sort of together.  We are talking about the rest later tonight.

Regarding custody, she would consider giving me custody if my son wanted it, but he prefers to be with her.  Which is fine... she has taken great care of him for the most part.  I work a lot and my son's around my wife a lot, and I think he's started taking on a bit of a role of emotional caretaker for her... not really what he should be doing at his age, but it is what it is.  She doesn't want joint custody because then I have power over her life (I'm the bad guy of course).  I am fully for disengaging and allowing her all the freedom she wants, and it's really fortunate she has been a good mom overall, in spite of various problems.

Sorry if this is all incoherent but I'm still sorting out all my feelings this evening.

[karma_gal]

She has been trying to feel me out to see what I want, which is good.  She is on the fence.  She says she prefers to be friends, and if we can't, it complicates things since our son wants us to have a life sort of together.  We are talking about the rest later tonight.

Regarding custody, she would consider giving me custody if my son wanted it, but he prefers to be with her.  Which is fine... she has taken great care of him for the most part.  I work a lot and my son's around my wife a lot, and I think he's started taking on a bit of a role of emotional caretaker for her... not really what he should be doing at his age, but it is what it is.  She doesn't want joint custody because then I have power over her life (I'm the bad guy of course).  I am fully for disengaging and allowing her all the freedom she wants, and it's really fortunate she has been a good mom overall, in spite of various problems.

Sorry if this is all incoherent but I'm still sorting out all my feelings this evening.

You are fine!  You have so much to think about and through and I'm sure your thoughts are all jumbled.  Trust me, I wonder if anyone can understand half of what I write because I'm either half asleep or royally ticked off when I post most of the time   I told you in the other thread, you're in good company.  We can decipher almost anything.

So it's great that she's been a good parent, because so many aren't.  I would worry more about your son taking on the role of her emotional caretaker though because that's not his job.  His job is to be a kid and her job is to be a parent.  And I say this from experience.  I'm not BPD -- trust me, I've spent lots of money trying to find out since my H has always insisted I'm the crazy one -- but I found myself at some points relying on my older son more than a parent should.  He at one point was my closest confidant, which was not his job.  I should have used my friends and family more as sounding boards, but he was living through it with me and so we had a bond that I couldn't explain to others; he was literally the only person who understood at that point in time.  Right now he hates me and I'm sure that's part of it.  Thankfully I wised up pretty quickly so his exposure to this was short-lived, but it should have never happened to begin with.  So I would definitely keep an eye on that if I were you.

As for the rest, it sounds like she's much more agreeable than I would have imagined a pwBPD could be.  Although I wonder if she realizes in this day and age the likelihood of her getting full custody and you getting near nothing isn't likely to happen?  Here, most custody awards these days are shared parenting, with a 50/50 split.  In fact, I work in the legal field with clients in eight states and that seems to be the norm everywhere.  There isn't likely a court in the world who will appoint her "boss" and leave you hanging with no say in your child's life.  So I think you're okay there.

Since you are so conflicted right now, could you suggest extending the separation for a few more months, to give you time to think, seek therapy for an objective opinion, and just get to a point where you're comfortable with putting a proposal on the table that everyone can live with? 

Was therapy for both of you a condition of the separation?  Is she agreeable to therapy at all?