What do you do when you get the same advice from everyone yet...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have found a co-worker that just in general converstion has gone through a very similar situation with his exBPDw. Purely by chance did the conversation come up about relationships. I think he might have seen I was at times struggling at work. Like he told me. He was me a several years ago and could see similar things going on with me by just observing.  I have asked several people not only on this site but others and family as well what to do and what options are there. The writting should be on the wall when you get unanamous responces form others that do not even know each other and some do not really even know me.

In short I should leave and try to get myself better and healthy and happy again. That I can not do any more or expect to be a husband that can fix this illness by just being nice. Also that I need to put in place a possible protection plan with athorities if it so comes to that.  So my question is this... I have all the agreein support wo go along with what I know in my hear to be right and end this relationship... . yet the guilt lingers on and I can't physically do it. Its feels liek th physically abused spouse that keep sgetting hit yet won't leave even though they want to in the worst way. How is this possible?

[Cipher13]

I have found a co-worker that just in general converstion has gone through a very similar situation with his exBPDw. Purely by chance did the conversation come up about relationships. I think he might have seen I was at times struggling at work. Like he told me. He was me a several years ago and could see similar things going on with me by just observing.  I have asked several people not only on this site but others and family as well what to do and what options are there. The writting should be on the wall when you get unanamous responces form others that do not even know each other and some do not really even know me.

In short I should leave and try to get myself better and healthy and happy again. That I can not do any more or expect to be a husband that can fix this illness by just being nice. Also that I need to put in place a possible protection plan with athorities if it so comes to that.  So my question is this... I have all the agreein support wo go along with what I know in my hear to be right and end this relationship... . yet the guilt lingers on and I can't physically do it. Its feels liek th physically abused spouse that keep sgetting hit yet won't leave even though they want to in the worst way. How is this possible?

[maxsterling]

Not sure.  I think part of the problem is it takes time to get your brain and your emotions in order.  Many days I feel like I can't take another day.  But then I get home from work and spend time with her and decide to keep working on things - for now.

What keeps me for now is that she is suicidal.  I certainly hate being in this position, it's not fair to me.  But at least for the short term I feel more at peace staying with her until she can get the services she needs.  The alternative is really ugly for her, and despite my history with her, I know I deeply love and care about her. 

In the long run, my gut tells me this will never work out.  She isn't the person she made herself to be when I met her.  And I don't think I am the person she is truly looking for, only what she needs right now.  In the beginning we got together partly because we had similar life goals - to get married and have a child or two.  When she first started falling apart, I wanted to run. I stayed because she promised to get help. And not knowing how serious, I thought once she started to get help things would steadily improve.  The opposite has been true.  I know now that without a miracle, she will never lover herself, and therefore I will never want to have a child with her.  I see that as extremely unlikely.  And when I finally make up my mind for certain on that, and let her know, I expect the relationship to fall apart.  I just hope she has other resources when that happens.  And it is such a shame.  I would certainly feel like she could be a good life partner if her mood gets to a point where she is happy even half of the time - just not a mother of my children.  Right now I am still in a place where if I think about how sad she would be without me, I feel heartbroken for her, and have to change my thoughts.   

As for you - I think it takes committing to the idea that this isn't working out.  Mentally think about alternative plans such as where you would live and where she would live, what your lives would be like, etc.  Mentally detach simply by taking care of you, and thinking about a future without her.  I think if you slowly mentally detach and reach out for yourself, you will eventually get to a place where you can move without as much pain. 

My best to you.

[Waddams]

In my case, I've always been almost petrifyingly afraid of hurting other people's feelings, to the point I have major problems telling them things they don't want to hear.  Particularly when they are dysfunctional about a certain subject.  With both my PDx's, they both developed major issues with cognition, and things devolved into a lot of FOG'ing.  I always knew they were BS'ing me, but I took way too long to call them out for it, and that was because I was afraid of not being able to call them out and still stay with them.

It came down to this both times - if I didn't, I'd lose me, my dreams, my hopes, my wants, etc. for good.  I realized loving someone doesn't mean you have to sacrifice yourself entirely for them.  If they loved you as deeply as you love them, they would never require that of you in the first place. In fact, they'd be horrified by the prospect.  In the end, they love themselves, to be honest, not really anyone else.

[Cipher13]

In my case, I've always been almost petrifyingly afraid of hurting other people's feelings, to the point I have major problems telling them things they don't want to hear

This fits me to a "T" also. I've been told when I was much younger that I can't always expect to fix everything and just being nice to poeple while its good can still get you hurt. Advice I am remebering but way late in the game.

As for you - I think it takes committing to the idea that this isn't working out.  Mentally think about alternative plans such as where you would live and where she would live, what your lives would be like, etc.  Mentally detach simply by taking care of you, and thinking about a future without her.  I think if you slowly mentally detach and reach out for yourself, you will eventually get to a place where you can move without as much pain.

Again to the letter here. I am already doing that. I think I have been a little at a time anyway. I day dream and idealize what ot wpoud be like to be on my own.  Now its more and more vivid.

[musicfan42]

In my case, I've always been almost petrifyingly afraid of hurting other people's feelings, to the point I have major problems telling them things they don't want to hear

This fits me to a "T" also. I've been told when I was much younger that I can't always expect to fix everything and just being nice to poeple while its good can still get you hurt. Advice I am remebering but way late in the game.

You have a right to freedom of speech. You may have opinions that other people don't agree with but you still have the right to express those views.

If you're assertive, then you'll be able to express your point of view while still being respectful of the other person.

There's an assertiveness book that I'd recommend called "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by Manuel J. Smith.

Have you checked out the workshop thread on SET, PUVAS and DEARMAN? It may help you as well.

[waverider]

To up and leave requires a consistent approach. Consistency itself is hard to hang on to in what is natural an inconsistent environment. In short, the desire to go today may be huge, next week not so. It becomes reactive to your surroundings.

[Cipher13]

There's an assertiveness book that I'd recommend called "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by Manuel J. Smith.

read that one a few months ago. Tried a few techniques... . wow she sid not like that. I may as well just turned into an abusive drunked lunatic just called her every name in the book. Would have maybe been a better result. But thats 100% the oposit of how I am.

Have you checked out the workshop thread on SET, PUVAS and DEARMAN? It may help you as well.

Tried these many times over the last couple years. even with mor eand more practice I don't seem to do much but make it worse for me. I don't feel any better from them and she thinks I am trying to manipluate her.

To up and leave requires a consistent approach. Consistency itself is hard to hang on to in what is natural an inconsistent environment. In short, the desire to go today may be huge, next week not so. It becomes reactive to your surroundings.

True. When its bad I want to leave evven more. When its good its not as focused. And at those times I feel guilt creeping in to even think about leaving her to herself. She is not and has neve been suicidal. However since I do a lot for her that she doesn't have to she is what you might call someone who can't help themselves or would rather have soemone else do just about everything for them.

WhenI have commented on the things I do for her she saysI"I don't make you do them" So I say then why we I don't do them or ask not ot you get angry liek I am trying to upset you on purpose. It comes across to me lek I have to do them or you will be  very upset with me. That is the same as making me.  That goes about as well as juggling hammmers in a glass room with no arms.

[waverider]

WhenI have commented on the things I do for her she saysI"I don't make you do them" So I say then why we I don't do them or ask not ot you get angry liek I am trying to upset you on purpose. It comes across to me lek I have to do them or you will be  very upset with me. That is the same as making me.  That goes about as well as juggling hammmers in a glass room with no arms.

You probably have to firm up on your boundaries in dealing with neediness, make it more clear what you will do and what you wont. What you are effectively doing is enabling neediness.

I have these issues too, it is hard as each individual issue does not seem big enough to make a drama over it. Rather it is the overall lack of personal effort that is the core issue. Just pick some issues and make these completey her responsibility to either do, or do without.

My partner once showed insight and complained I was disabling her by doing too much for her. Though she wasn't too happy when I stopped  

[rj47]

When its bad I want to leave evven more. When its good its not as focused. And at those times I feel guilt creeping in to even think about leaving her to herself. She is not and has neve been suicidal. However since I do a lot for her that she doesn't have to she is what you might call someone who can't help themselves or would rather have soemone else do just about everything for them.

Maddening isn't it?

I've been at it 30 years. Taming the beast is not easy, maybe impossible. For most of that time it was children that she threatened I would lose. Then; suicide attempts and the continuing threat of it. But in painful hindsight and through some coping therapy I realized it was all me. Maybe its guilt, love, obligation, sex, security, etc that keeps us engaged in spite of the unbelievable chaos. Hard to be clear headed about your shifting emotions while being run through a meat grinder on a weekly basis. I think it could be a form of Stockholm Syndrome where the abused begins to have sympathy and understanding for the abuser as a defensive mechanism to cope with the trauma the abuser creates.I love my wife in spite of herself. However, its the realization that she can never fully love me back unconditionally that has me pointed and ready to hit the exits. Our kids our grown up, the house is almost ready for sale; even, the agreements providing for her support are in draft form. She knows it and is finally afraid I might allow it to finally collapse. It does not stop her from having episodes, but when she stabilizes she's far more conciliatory and apologetic than in the past (which may not be a good thing). I seem to have her attention for the moment and she's in therapy. Will it make a difference? Probably not. But; exhausting every reasonable avenue for healing is important if I am ever to bring closure and know that I tried the best I was able. The despair comes from the realization that decades spent attempting to outlast the PD are likely to fall short

I have heard "run" so many times from lawyers, therapists and a few well meaning friends that I no longer talk about the issue for the simple reason that anyone that might listen will conclude that I'm the one with serious issues for sticking around.

[Cipher13]

I have heard "run" so many times from lawyers, therapists and a few well meaning friends that I no longer talk about the issue for the simple reason that anyone that might listen will conclude that I'm the one with serious issues for sticking around.

I have had the same. I also am beiging to think that I have some serious issues within myself to allow myself to continue to be inthei situation. Especially when I do not have children. I have few few person items of my own that I woul not be willing to part with. I have a house but I am not attached to that other than the mortgage payments. I have been told that compared to most I have few if any strings. Why do I feel lousy when I know I want to and dream about how much better it would be to leave. That first step is hard.

[Pearl55]

Maxterling

I was in the same position as yours. I felt very guilty and and spent 3 years of analysing. I had wishful thinking all the time the same as you due to constant brainwashing! She will survive and she uses these threats as manipulations.

[Pearl55]

Wadems

She doesn't think the same way you do, her brain works very different to yours. Her emotions and feeling are very different to yours as well. You are only an object in her view to control, play games, to compete as an opponent, to use you as a punch bag to rag( if she is that type of borderline),... . You are the victim in your relationship not her!

[Cipher13]

So I finally broke down today and I am taking my last ditch effort for this relationship. Last night I got a text from her mom about a recipe to try out. She heard the phone go off and asked who is texting you and why? I told her and she says no one shoudl text you only I should be texting you. I said ok then make sure to tell your mom that. Since I knew she wasn't going to actually do that... . I did. I had a brief conversation with her mom this morning to go over the situation. She said she knew there was soemthings going on and didn't know just how bad. She suspected it was worse than they thought and what they could see.  I have contacted a T for the both of us to see. I gave my wife a list but alas it was too difficult for her to choose. So I found on that met all her expectations and mine as well. My hope is that this tips the scale into she finally sees that I can not possible responsible for 100% of her happiness. If she can't then I am goign to be responsible for 100% of mine and leave. I will giv ethis process all the time that it needs to succeed. I do not expect it to work quickly.

[an0ught]

Hi Cipher,

So I finally broke down today and I am taking my last ditch effort for this relationship. Last night I got a text from her mom about a recipe to try out. She heard the phone go off and asked who is texting you and why? I told her and she says no one shoudl text you only I should be texting you. I said ok then make sure to tell your mom that. Since I knew she wasn't going to actually do that... . I did. I had a brief conversation with her mom this morning to go over the situation. She said she knew there was soemthings going on and didn't know just how bad. She suspected it was worse than they thought and what they could see.  I have contacted a T for the both of us to see. I gave my wife a list but alas it was too difficult for her to choose. So I found on that met all her expectations and mine as well. My hope is that this tips the scale into she finally sees that I can not possible responsible for 100% of her happiness. If she can't then I am goign to be responsible for 100% of mine and leave. I will giv ethis process all the time that it needs to succeed. I do not expect it to work quickly.

You wondering how your wife can finally shoulder her responsibility for her happiness. Your wife will never learn that you are not responsible for her happiness by anything that is told to her by anyone. She can only shoulder what you have put down. Only boundaries will make it tangible enough for her that her mind slowly adopts to the new situation and motivates her to look after herself. You can only refuse to feel responsible for carrying stuff that is clearly hers. You worrying about her acknowledging her responsibility is also a sign that you see part of your solution in her. But that part of the solution is in you - you do not have to feel responsible for it. Sure she may believe you are - even healthy people are sometimes confused about responsibilities - but you have a choice here that is alone yours. I know it sounds hard but it is her choice whether she is unhappy or not and what she does about it.

I have found a co-worker that just in general converstion has gone through a very similar situation with his exBPDw. Purely by chance did the conversation come up about relationships. I think he might have seen I was at times struggling at work. Like he told me. He was me a several years ago and could see similar things going on with me by just observing.  I have asked several people not only on this site but others and family as well what to do and what options are there. The writting should be on the wall when you get unanamous responces form others that do not even know each other and some do not really even know me.

In short I should leave and try to get myself better and healthy and happy again. That I can not do any more or expect to be a husband that can fix this illness by just being nice. Also that I need to put in place a possible protection plan with athorities if it so comes to that.  So my question is this... I have all the agreein support wo go along with what I know in my hear to be right and end this relationship... . yet the guilt lingers on and I can't physically do it. Its feels liek th physically abused spouse that keep sgetting hit yet won't leave even though they want to in the worst way. How is this possible?

you see the two points are related. You struggle to think of yourself as an independent person that always has the option to leave. This is not saying you should or should not leave. This is just you, yourself as you described not feeling able to even clearly think about it and wonder "How is this possible?". Attachment works on a very low mental level and can be a very strong force - drama and abuse often make it even stronger. In a BPD relationship people get really close and confused about responsibilities on both sides. This workshop may be of interest in your context: TOOLS: Dealing with Enmeshment and Codependence

Getting a T involved makes sense. The work to set boundaries and stick to them will remain your problem. Boundaries may be discussed (already that can be triggering) but it is the implementation that matters.

[rj47]

18-months ago I suggested we see a marital therapist as an avenue for self-reflection and healthier communication skills. I offered to find the most "man-hating-lesbian-feminist-therapist" in the state if it would help ease her concern with getting fair treatment. She opted for a gay male couples therapist (it mattered). He laid out rules for communicating including giving equal time, not replaying the past and focusing on constructive dialogue to develop new relational skills. 20 minutes into the first session he stopped me mid-sentence saying "You are absolutely terrified of her aren't you?. This isn't going to work if you won't communicate". I took a risk and cautiously (careful of every word and nuance) opened up. Each session would trigger an episode on the drive home. Fortunately, by the 4th session she was openly fighting with him. She could not follow rules we agreed to; the most of important of which was no constant dragging the past into the discussion. She absolutely couldn't do it, would shut down, refuse to speak and then spit out sarcasm and contempt. I felt sorry for her, but found it strangely satisfying to watch her unwind in front of another person. That was the last visit.

I suspect it can work for couples committed to improving communication and better dealing with conflict resolution, but the operative attribute is commitment. It did not work for us... . I hope it does for you.

[an0ught]

Couple counseling is problematic indeed for exactly the reasons rj47 described. Getting through extinction bursts requires some relationship first which does not exist at the beginning. DBT starts with validation and not with boundaries for a reason. But like the non seeking out T for themselves it can be one first step. Getting once over the initial threshold.

If the T offers also individual therapy one option may be to let the pwBPD build a relationship with the T and then leaving the pwBPD partner continuing while looking for another one for yourself.

[Cipher13]

I have been everythign she has asked me to be and more. When I can see that it will never be enough and that she needs to realize for herself what is going on I don't know how to do that. When I stand up and set a personal boundry i fail at executing it or keeping it up. she wears me down so I end up longing for the peace of not fighting over everthing.

[Waddams]

I have been everythign she has asked me to be and more. When I can see that it will never be enough and that she needs to realize for herself what is going on I don't know how to do that. When I stand up and set a personal boundry i fail at executing it or keeping it up. she wears me down so I end up longing for the peace of not fighting over everthing.

Abuse, in general, is an issue of disrespect that usually involves trespass upon individual's equality and freedom due to unclear or poorly-defined boundaries.  In other words, abuse is when someone refuses to respect your boundaries.

Continuing to enforce disrespected boundaries while living with or constantly seeing an abuser will only enable and give the abuser permission to continue the abuse. Your presence is all that is needed for them to translate it into permission.  The way they see it, you give them permission to continue their behavior by staying.

You've tried numerous other avenues.  In order to stop her from continuing to beat against the boundaries you set until she wears you down and you cave, you're going to have to remove yourself from the situation so you are not there for her beat against.  That doesn't mean divorce right away.  It does mean having another place to go for a few hours, or overnight.  Hotel, or a friend's place.  Or even family. 

It might be difficult to figure out how to remove yourself, but you can figure something out, I promise you that you can.

[waverider]

You need to find some small easy (relatively) boundary to reinforce completely. This will teach you the confidence that it is doable and give you a feeling of reward. Then once that has been achieved start applying it to the more difficult areas.

We understand it is very difficult to get the ball rolling, not only does it take courage but our own awareness of how bad it is, is severely impaired.

You will not be able to negotiate these changes, they will need to be enforced amongst much kicking and screaming if necessary

[rj47]

When I stand up and set a personal boundry i fail at executing it or keeping it up. she wears me down so I end up longing for the peace of not fighting over everthing.

Brother, its an endemic behavior that many of us engage in. Regardless of where you and your wife end up; you are in good company here. I suspect that its a rare man or woman in a BPD relationship that can absorb the lessons of shared experiences and good advice; and, then immediately put it into action. I expect that it takes a lot of failures along the way.

I fail at successfully enforcing those boundaries more than not for the same reason as you. We're generally not wired for the intense emotional engagement that they are capable of. I got in a lot of fights when I was a young man, but would rather take a physical beating than endure a round of emotional warfare. But each time you try and fail is an opportunity to commit not to fail the next time... . and maybe learn from the failure to adjust your response the next time she comes after you with the emotional wrecking ball. Heck, I sometimes quietly repeat to myself "there's no place like home" (or some other stupid mantra) over and over while she spews. Its juvenile maybe; but to listen to the near demonic vile she is throws at me during the manic bursts would shred me in about five minutes. Whatever works bro.

[Cipher13]

I tried to stand my ground again over what I though was a simple issue. Again it goes back to the demaning and apology for everythign from a hurt feeling based on a coment she took to mean something completely the oposite to demaning I beg for forgiviness every single day of my life for the hurt she feels.  I refused saying I had already several times done so. And that I would like one form her from the horrible texts she sent yesterday.  She flat out refused saying I have not right to feel upset. I have no right to feel anything. And that she deserves an apology an honest sincere apology where I take her in my arms and hold her and cry and beg for forgivenss... . all the whle that she is screaming angry profanities and hasa face that is shooting flames and lightning bolts.  Like that is soemthing that says come here and hug me. I was able to last and hour before she was able to break me. I didn't fully fall in completely to all the demands but it was close engouh that she calmed down and went to bed.


It was in this argument that I realized even clearer how hard it is for her to see the gray in any situation. Its either ALWAYS or NEVER  LOVE or HATE  in everything she said and explained it was one extreme or the other.  I'm never going to be able to talk to her. I can't it always turns to such arguments. As soon as I open up to be honest she sees it as me tryign to break up our relationship by hurting her feelings. She needs to be validated that everthing is going to be ok not just on a daily basis anymore but hourly. As son as I say that this isn't the kind of situation I pictured for us she freaks at the statement. Its shows her that I think that its not stable. It isn't for crying out loud.

[Pearl55]

Cipher 13

Your apology has got no meaning to her instead she will see you as a weak person!

[an0ught]

Hi Cipher13,

sounds like extinction burst to me. Trying to control you by her demands. The puppet at the string however seemed to have developed an own will 

This is a difficult phase   for you. Accepting herself that you are not there to fix all her emotional needs on command and taking some part of the responsibility in her own hands. It is quite a big change for her and it is very uncomfortable.

There is nothing wrong in validating her whenever appropriate. She got a lot on her hands to regulate now that she bumps in boundaries.

[Grey Kitty]

I know my unwillingness to continue to put up with the crap I'd been going through was the key to improving my marriage... . including the willingness to let it end if this crap was all I found in it.

Your resolve will serve you well, whatever path you choose.

You need to find some small easy (relatively) boundary to reinforce completely.

I tried to stand my ground again over what I though was a simple issue.

[... . ]she deserves an apology an honest sincere apology where I take her in my arms and hold her and cry and beg for forgivenss... . all the whle that she is screaming angry profanities and hasa face that is shooting flames and lightning bolts.

Nobody said it would be easy to stand up and enforce one simple boundary--just that it is the only successful way forward for you in the r/s.

I'd recommend trying a boundary of not participating in / sticking around for verbal abuse or circular arguments.

And I'd expect a serious extinction burst.

[Cipher13]

I'd recommend trying a boundary of not participating in / sticking around for verbal abuse or circular arguments. And I'd expect a serious extinction burst.

I should not have to do this yet I totally see your point and how necessary it is. These extinction bursts have always been the one thing I do what ever to avoid. I know somethign needs to eb done and soon. I can't feel comfortable at work any more even. I spend all day in anxiety as to if I do not reply to her at the right time or with the right words. We have an apt on the 7th foir our first T session with new T. I know not to put all my faith just in that as to making everything alright. But I just need soemone on my side that does not have a side that they would take when talkign about our issues. In other owrds and un biased person seeing that I am not always 100% at fault all the time. I can only admit to so much that I actually did wrong and admitting to everythign else is to please her is making me bitter.

[waverider]

I'd recommend trying a boundary of not participating in / sticking around for verbal abuse or circular arguments. And I'd expect a serious extinction burst.

I should not have to do this yet I totally see your point and how necessary it is. These extinction bursts have always been the one thing I do what ever to avoid. I know somethign needs to eb done and soon. I can't feel comfortable at work any more even. I spend all day in anxiety as to if I do not reply to her at the right time or with the right words. We have an apt on the 7th foir our first T session with new T. I know not to put all my faith just in that as to making everything alright. But I just need soemone on my side that does not have a side that they would take when talkign about our issues. In other owrds and un biased person seeing that I am not always 100% at fault all the time. I can only admit to so much that I actually did wrong and admitting to everythign else is to please her is making me bitter.

You need to be on your own side first and foremost. No one else can do that for you. It does not matter how many third parties validate you as being "hard done by" it wont change a thing. It still comes down to you believing in your own rights and enforcing them.

In fact being blamed by third parties will anger your pwBPD even more, which will add fuel to the projection dumped on you.

[Surnia]

Hi Cipher

I know I am repeating myself here. I think you need professional help to be "on your side". Your own therapist. So one thing at the couple T session could be to state this.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

My uBPDw bursts almost every other day. I had made the decision to not make it worse, in other words "put up with it". Things cooled off recently for a week, as we just got back from vacation, until I got ill and she was blaming me for not being responsible to take care of myself etc. etc. It hit a button, and in short I left after letting her know how I felt, needed some validation then even though I knew it wouldn't come. Since then she had asked me back, as expected and I did, not expecting her to change but how she took it when I enforced my boundary. The blaming slowly but surely shifted back to me, and I decided to stop. I had already spent 2 separate nights in the car, and last night was suppose to be the last together. Today I got a call with the usually blaming and accusations, and I told her I cannot engage in that conversation especially when at work. Think she raged and made some threats, which I couldn't really hear as I had the phone aside. It was the same rants for the past 2 years. I'm a mess at work and other relationships are almost non-existent. I'm telling myself to pack and go, the FOG has been ingrained, should I just bite the bullet and charge it. But the greatest fear is what she might do to herself, and that is the most powerful weapon she has against me.

Any words, to keep my sanity... . thanks.

[waverider]

Hi Cipher

I know I am repeating myself here. I think you need professional help to be "on your side". Your own therapist. So one thing at the couple T session could be to state this.

This is important, that way you get support without having your partner being affected by whatever T says or thinks, hence not reflecting it back on you. Couple T will either be a tug of war over influencing T or an exercise in hiding the real story. pwBPD dont do negotiations

[Cipher13]

LifeIsBeautiful

Alot of what you said rings home. I to am stuck in this damn FOG. I do not think that my wife woul dharm herself. She has not expressed any evidence to make me even suspect that being possible. However she can and probably would try to sabatage me and my work. That I know to be possible as she stated as much in a rage. The other is that I think she might shut down. Right after we first go married I entered the Army. She fell into deep depression. She was living with her parents and wouldn't come out of her room or eat for days on end. Would scream and cry. Thus the begining of the abandonment feelings I supose. Although I doubt this created them.There were there before this was just the largest trigger. I think she would  do that again if I left. In that regar maybe that is harm to herself in a way then to.