Please provide some insight into this

[btechpc]

I am now convinced that my girlfriend has this disorder. She fits the bill perfectly and frankly I am scared. She is 20 and I am 34, so a lot of her 'outburst' I chalked up to her age and immaturity, but I can see that I am totally wrong.

She is very nice and loving when she is not having an episode, but when she gets angry it really hurts and scares me. Many times she has had outburst that embarrass me in public and I just walk away which always makes it worse. An example of this was when I took her away this weekend for her birthday and we were in the hotel lobby (5 star+ place) and she got very agitated and said people were staring at her. I told her to relax and she got more agitated. She always feels like people are laughing or staring at her, she has had several incidents where she has confronted people in public over what I would consider nothing. 

I have treated her very well and nothing ever seems to be good enough.

She is also a very heavy marijuana user and smokes it from the time she wakes up and right before she sleeps. I worry that this is used to mask her true behaviour as she gets very agitated when she doesn't have any for several hours. I told her she must stop using, but she says she won't until we move in together as it's too tough with her roommates there who also use marijuana. She lies to me about when she gets drugs too as I watch her supply and I know when she gets a new delivery. I have questioned her about this and she has straight up lied to my face about it. Another time she ran out of drugs while on vacation and flew into a 45 minute rage, punching the car and saying she wanted to die. She ended up jumping out of the car and running away, I had to chase her and try and talk her down for like 3 hours as she was just totally unreasonable.

She also spends a lot of money. I am very well off financially so its not a huge issue, but she is always buying a lot of little things like DVDs and knick knacks. Like she can't just buy one season of a TV show, she needs to buy them all and seems obsessed until she has them all.

She also lied to me about how many people she was with sexually. When we first got together she told me about all these 'risky' situations she was in, including having sex with a teacher when she was in high school and group sex. She then backtracked on her 'number' and said the teacher thing/group sex was a lie just to make it seem like she wasn't 'square' but I'm not sure what to believe.

She also keeps setting these 'deadlines' for me to do things, but she is unwilling to set deadlines for herself. If I blow a deadline or change something she goes crazy and tells me she hates me and I don't care about her.

She constantly accuses me of looking at other women and threatening me about it. I don't and it really bothers me.

She also said a past boyfriend (she was 13 he was 22... . yikes!) who physically,mentally and sexually abused her. She likes to have rough degrading sex which I find kind of strange given her past story of abuse. I try to be loving and gentle when we are intimate but she always pushes it into the zone of what I would consider abusive and I feel uncomfortable sometimes with it. Like I genuinely feel bad about it after, but she says its ok and she likes it.

She had a hard childhood and I feel bad for her a lot of the time. She is a loving person and says that she wants to be a my wife and take care of me. She says she will love my children from my previous marriage (and seems to act that way when she is around them) but I just feel lost as I don't know or trust what will happen. I would love to hear from others about their experiences about this and any insight to what my future will look like would be great as I just don't know where to turn. I do love her as I see the good in her, but I worry about what being in this relationship might do to my kids from a previous marriage. She has also said I am the man of her dreams, but then like 15 minutes later she says she hates me wants me to leave. Please help! I'm so confused.

[SimplySeattle]

It's hard to tell what issues she may be experiencing, but for sure the Marijuana probably does not help the situation. She is probably due for some counseling (if you could ever convince her to go). There is a big age difference between you two, and it sounds like she has a checkered past, it might be best to move on and not tempt fate (what you experience now is what you may get for the rest of your life with her).

Just my 2 cents.

[Changingman]

Read what you have written and try to make a sound judgement, perhaps some time away from her chaos would make this clearer, although they don't like you thinking clearly and would see this as abandonment.

I have 2 kids from a previous marriage, and my uBPDxgf would mirror me and my daughter. I've realised how dangerous it was having her around them, she didn't give a damn about any of us. Not even common decency, my kids had to watch me fall into the chaos she created and the aftermath. Me, ok! Innocent children? My god what a monster. Read Cinderella again, Snow White, Hansel and Gretel.

Maybe those tales weren't for children but for Dads.

Think long and hard about this, it is confusing. On this board I cannot say what I think, you need to read about the condition. It sounds like textbook BpD to me.

Undecided: staying or leaving ? Really?

[PullToEject]

I'm sorry you're going through this and you seem like a good hearted caring guy, a lot like me.  You don't mention how long you've been together but it doesn't seem to be that long.  I wish I had a more positive outlook for you, but she is not going to change, and it can get a lot worse.  I've spent countless hours on the internet learning about BPD, gone to a therapist, read all the books... . I think if I were a parent of a BPD child it would be a different story, commitment wise, but guy-to-guy, we have to get out of these toxic relationships.  Your girlfriend, like mine, is a beautiful disaster that we cannot fix.  

The first time I tried to break up with my BPD girlfriend, she got 2 DUIs in the span of 8 days, showed up IN my house in the middle of the night 4 times while I was sleeping (not at, IN!), stole my cell phone and I had to have the police come with me to her house to get it back, and lost her job.  She intentionally cut herself and overdosed on alcohol and Xanax and was hospitalized for the suicide attempt.  

GUESS WHO PICKED HER UP WHEN SHE WAS DISCHARGED FROM THE HOSPITAL?

Yep, ME.  And I took her to her court dates too.  And found her AA meetings.  And taught her how to read the train schedule since she lost her license.  Guys like you and I have it in our nature to help.  Especially when we have the means to do so.  

I know this is not much help, or give much hope, I'm just hoping your not in too deep.  :)oes she live with you?  :)epend on you financially (not like DVDs but actually paying her bills)?  How is her relationship with her mom and dad?  

[maxsterling]

Sorry you are dealing with this.  Yes, it sounds like BPD to me, as she sounds like my girlfriend was 18 years ago.  And guess what?  My girlfriend is still the same today, except she quit the drugs.  I've only known my girlfriend for a year, but from what she has told me, the BPD behaviors started showing up around 9-10, she started drugs and really reckless stuff at 14, was completely out of control until 26, then sobered up, and has basically been sober and out of control (but less out of control) since.  She's had lengthy stays in hospitals and treatment facilities.  She's been seeing psychologists since she was a teenager.  She's been on nearly every kind of drug, legal or illegal.  She does the NA/AA 12-step program. And her behavior is still reckless.  She still hurts herself through food and sleeping around.  She hasn't been able to keep a job longer than a year - ever.  She's never felt comfortable where she was and can't keep friends or boyfriends.

I say this because your girlfriend is 20 and I can guarantee you she will get worse before she gets better.  And if and when she does realize her behavior is destroying herself (she will never admit it is destroying you), the road to healing and a normal life has no end. 

I can't tell you what will be best for you in the long run, but I am glad you are here searching for answers and peace of mind.

[an0ught]

Hi btechpc,

I am now convinced that my girlfriend has this disorder. She fits the bill perfectly and frankly I am scared. She is 20 and I am 34, so a lot of her 'outburst' I chalked up to her age and immaturity, but I can see that I am totally wrong.

Good observation. PwBPD are emotionally immature at times but not like 20 but more in the kid-teenager age. It is however harder to deal with than a spoiled teenager as they come with all the expectations and full rights of an adult.

She is very nice and loving when she is not having an episode, but when she gets angry it really hurts and scares me. Many times she has had outburst that embarrass me in public and I just walk away which always makes it worse. An example of this was when I took her away this weekend for her birthday and we were in the hotel lobby (5 star+ place) and she got very agitated and said people were staring at her. I told her to relax and she got more agitated. She always feels like people are laughing or staring at her, she has had several incidents where she has confronted people in public over what I would consider nothing.  

That is the place where you went 180 degree wrong, we call this invalidation here on the board. There is a cultural bias for invalidating negative emotions so this is unfortunately quite common. She is feeling tense and - due to BPD - is not able to regulate it down. Telling her to do something she can't do is making matters obviously worse. What is needed is simply acknowledging that she is tense and struggles mightily (we call this validating). Accepting her as she is at the moment and letting her also be ok with herself. Then her own emotional regulation has a chance to kick in and calm her down.

She is also a very heavy marijuana user and smokes it from the time she wakes up and right before she sleeps. I worry that this is used to mask her true behaviour as she gets very agitated when she doesn't have any for several hours. I told her she must stop using, but she says she won't until we move in together as it's too tough with her roommates there who also use marijuana. She lies to me about when she gets drugs too as I watch her supply and I know when she gets a new delivery. I have questioned her about this and she has straight up lied to my face about it. Another time she ran out of drugs while on vacation and flew into a 45 minute rage, punching the car and saying she wanted to die. She ended up jumping out of the car and running away, I had to chase her and try and talk her down for like 3 hours as she was just totally unreasonable.

Could be indeed self medicating. PwBPD have all sorts of dysfunctional behavior that allows the to somehow cope. Alcohol, drugs, cutting, suicidal actions, eating disorders, shopping - it is dysfunction it sure is part of the menu. It is usually a symptom and not the cause. Some need tackling at the very beginning of T before serious therapy starts (alcohol, some drugs, suicidal actions). Whether marijuana belongs to them is not known to me.

Generally focusing on symptoms is not helpful unless it is highly disruptive. Get rid of one another rears its head.

She also spends a lot of money. I am very well off financially so its not a huge issue, but she is always buying a lot of little things like DVDs and knick knacks. Like she can't just buy one season of a TV show, she needs to buy them all and seems obsessed until she has them all.

Black holes are a real beauty to watch until you reach the event horizon. Read up on boundaries. You need strict spending budgets/limits. Expect no understanding and an extinction burst at their introduction. But read up first - boundaries should not be rushed. They need planning and commitment from your side.

She also lied to me about how many people she was with sexually. When we first got together she told me about all these 'risky' situations she was in, including having sex with a teacher when she was in high school and group sex. She then backtracked on her 'number' and said the teacher thing/group sex was a lie just to make it seem like she wasn't 'square' but I'm not sure what to believe.

Game playing. Fantasy world. Truth may be somewhere in the middle but who knows. Part of her changing her numbers will be her high rejection sensitivity. She wants to be accepted by you.

She also keeps setting these 'deadlines' for me to do things, but she is unwilling to set deadlines for herself. If I blow a deadline or change something she goes crazy and tells me she hates me and I don't care about her.

Game playing. Boundaries. Work on your schedule and only adjust when needed. For details how to communicate hard facts see workshop listed in the LESSONS on the staying board.

She constantly accuses me of looking at other women and threatening me about it. I don't and it really bothers me.

Fear of abandonment. You probably deny that you do it which would be invalidating. Which makes her more fearful.

Another aspect of this is that this is a button she can press to make you upset. She feels for whatever reason bad - press button you feel bad. Now she got her validation and feels better. You still feel bad. The way out is giving her what she needs i.e. telling her she is afraid of other beautiful women, afraid of you leaving her, insecure, jealous etc... She only needs to hear not to admit for it to work.

She also said a past boyfriend (she was 13 he was 22... . yikes!) who physically,mentally and sexually abused her. She likes to have rough degrading sex which I find kind of strange given her past story of abuse. I try to be loving and gentle when we are intimate but she always pushes it into the zone of what I would consider abusive and I feel uncomfortable sometimes with it. Like I genuinely feel bad about it after, but she says its ok and she likes it.

Her emotional system is not calibrated for not so strong emotions. She is more on the black and white side. Keep that in mind when validating her. Grey may be a valid color for you but she can't see it.

She had a hard childhood and I feel bad for her a lot of the time. She is a loving person and says that she wants to be a my wife and take care of me. She says she will love my children from my previous marriage (and seems to act that way when she is around them) but I just feel lost as I don't know or trust what will happen. I would love to hear from others about their experiences about this and any insight to what my future will look like would be great as I just don't know where to turn. I do love her as I see the good in her, but I worry about what being in this relationship might do to my kids from a previous marriage. She has also said I am the man of her dreams, but then like 15 minutes later she says she hates me wants me to leave. Please help! I'm so confused.

She sure believes that she loves you and that she hates you. She can hold both in her head but they are not connected. You see one or the other (splitting) at any point in time. At this point in time she is not emotionally stable. There are concrete steps you can take to avoid feeding it (like tuning down invalidation - your good intentions are backfiring here but that can be learned quickly). You can protect yourself to some degree from her extreme actions. Ultimately however she needs therapy to stabilize and grow up.

[btechpc]

I am just blown away from the responses here from everyone, thank you all.

A bit more background on the relationship might be helpful as well and some other items.

We met at my work when I was in a rough patch in my marriage, she was the 'new girl' and me the upper level executive. It was a really chance meeting that we met as I was walking in a hallway and she hit me with a door by accident. Being the older one I kinda joked that she owed me lunch and laughed it off as why would a beautiful young woman have any interest in me. However I was shocked when she showed up at my office the next day asking me out to lunch. We went out and hit it off and actually had a lot of laughs. Over the next few weeks we started exchanging emails and then started texting each other. From there it progressed to more lunches and flirting. I can't lie, I was taken by her fun attitude and beauty. About 2 months after our meeting I went to her house one afternoon and before I knew it we were being intimate with each other. The passion and intensity was amazing at first, something I had been missing for years in my marriage. As things progressed with us my marriage got worse and dissolved. I don't blame her as things were bad well before I met her.

About 6 months after meeting her I was on vacation with my kids and got a call from her crying that she got laid off from the office. Upon my return I learned that it was due to poor work performance and I was surprised as she was well liked at the office. Now 8 months later she is still unemployed and I have many reservations about moving in with her. As noted above I am unsure about trusting her. I have been paying for her rent, food, drugs and any items she wants to buy (clothes, DVDs, Etc). I have also taken her on two very nice vacations that were in my eyes ruined by her behaviour and outburst as she ran out of drugs and got very agitated. When we talk about going away her first question is that room must have a balcony so she can smoke drugs. I have told her that it bothers me as it really limits where we can go and I don't like bringing drugs in the car.

When we are out in public she is always gushing about having babies and loves them. She talks a lot about wanting to have a family with me, to which I have told her I would be ok with after we live together for a few years. She also seems very content in running a household (cleaning, cooking, mothering) but I am unsure as she is always wanting to be out doing things and she only does these 'household' things when I am not around. From what I have read here it seems like people with BPD are like chameleons, able to blend in with their surroundings.

In general we have pretty good interaction together, but as noted above we do have a lot of intense fights. One thing I should have mentioned is that she told me she would quit drugs after moving in with me as I don't want it around my kids. Should I trust this, or is she just fleecing me to get what she wants? Should I make her stop before allowing her to move in? Her argument is that she will take care of me and manage the cooking and cleaning in the home. I like the sounds of it, but I am worried about what kind of issues will arise.

Another constant issue with us is that she always says I am trying to change everything about her. The only thing I ever ask her to change is about her drug use, attitude and the way she talks to me. I told her it comes down to respect. 

Should I also be concerned about leaving my kids with her? Can she be trusted? This worries me.

Like I said before I do love her very much and see the good in her. But due to her condition and age, would I be better to let her go and get the therapy she needs to get better without me? As I have three kids (3,7,13) my focus is on them and it seems like someone with BPD needs the focus to be them?

Thanks again for the responses everyone. I will start reading some of the threads for more information. I feel so much better that I am not alone.

[btechpc]

One other thing to add is that today for some reason she seemed stressed and was not very talkative. She usually runs to me and hugs and kisses me. She seemed somewhat withdrawn towards me, not very loving at all. This is the first time I have experienced this from her since the start of our relationship, even when she is mad at me she is very loving.

She has barely been texting me today too. She usually sends me 5 messages telling me how much she loves me and misses me, but today it was 3 hours before I got a text from her and it was cold and asked me what was going on. Should I prepared for something to go sideways with her? Is this an indicator of something bigger going on or happening?

[SimplySeattle]

Push-pull cycle.

Here is some good reading on the subject: www.downwardspiralintothevortex.com/2012/03/push-me-pull-you-push-pull-cycle.html

Just an observation/question. If you are working in upper management, why are you wasting your time on a 20 year old that has issues? I can understand that there was passion (especially in light of your failing marriage), but you're keeping her around to wreak havoc in your life. She will drain you emotionally and financially in the long run unless she gets some help if she is indeed borderline.

My advice to you is to find a low maintenance relationship as this one will probably be like a second job to you and you don't want it to jeopardize your employment or the assets you've worked hard to acquire.

[btechpc]

Thanks for the link and I will be sure to read up on this.

I guess the reason I can't just 'walk away' from her is that I do care about her a lot. I feel that this is what people in her life have done to her in the past. I'm not trying to be a saviour, but I'm not cold hearted either. I agree with the statement that will wreak havoc in my life if she is not treated.

Is the warmth and loving feelings that she expresses towards me and my kids just an illusion to meet her needs? When she says she loves me and I am the greatest man she has ever met just an act?

I'm just confused about how she can act loving, talk about having kids and a life together but not mean any of it like a big lie. Is she just playing me until we move in together so she can unleash her emotional rage on me because then I will have a harder time escaping?

Is there anything I do or say just to test her out to gauge what kind of response I get? Like to see her real feelings?

Also from my reading on here it seems that a lot of people with BPD have issues staying monogamous to their partner. How true is this and if so is there anything I can do to test her to see if she admits the truth about being unfaithful?

[SimplySeattle]

I think everyone's situation is different with some common overtones. There are also cases persons that have BPD also face other mental heath issues (Co-Occurring disorders), so you may have someone with a lot more issues than BPD. It's best, if you can get her to agree, to go get a professional diagnosis and help.

With that being said, I can share some of what I've gone through over the past year. I met a woman who I thought was my soul mate, fell in love because of this amazing connection, and married quickly (big mistake). Another mistake I made was marrying someone who has a different socioeconomic and educational background. After we were married, I got to see her true colors (we lived separately because she wanted to keep her home for her adult son). Since she did not have the education to get a good job, she was in need of money to pay for her astronomically high mortgage. I told her that she should sell her place and relieve the stress, but she wanted money from me. When I didn't comply, she gave me the silent treatment and pretty much disconnected from me without verbalizing what she wanted (I should have been in tune with her on some psychic level). After getting the silent treatment a few times, I told her that if she did it again, then I would just leave. No more silent treatment. Instead, she would find other ways to punish me (including kicking me in bed or, more recently, hitting my head).

Yes. She can be a very warm person too and tell me that she never wants to leave me, and that she's happy that I put up with her. But that can change quickly if I do something that does not rub her the right way. For instance, if she makes some food and asks me how it tastes, I pretty much have to always say it's great (she will ask several times). If I say it's ok, then she may harbor her anger inside until the next day when she jumps out of bed, runs downstairs, and yells at me for not getting up quickly when I come down. The anger coming out can manifest itself in different forms and, sometimes, you don't even know what you did that caused it. If for some reason she hurts your feelings, and you mention it to her, you will be lambasted for being too sensitive, so it's hard to express your feelings in a BPD relationship.

When they say, "I love you," then I think they love you in their own way, but it's not normal. Think of yourself like a toaster in her kitchen. When you're working and doing what she wants, she loves you. When you're broken or burning the toast, she hates you (white or black). My soon to be ex has a problem with saying I love you at all. When I say I love you, she would respond with, "Thank you." I translate this into, "Thank you for letting me beat you up psychologically and staying around for more." Sometimes she would say I love you, but she would say it in a different, higher pitch that didn't sound sincere.

I don't know of any Litmus test to determine what feelings are real or not; they will learn quickly your needs and adapt to them in order to manipulate you. I've seen tears from her when talking about our relationship and thought, "oh she must really have feelings for our relationship," but from my research it appears that these people really are incapable of loving. They are like an empty emotional pit that they work hard to fill. This leads me to your next question.

Yes. Some people with BPD do have issues with being monogamous with their partner. In my case, my wife has an Ipad that she constantly uses to chat with her friends. Sometimes she is secretive with it and gets angry if I challenge her excessive use of it. If I ask about her friends, she also gets upset and accuses me of being too suspicious. I later learned that she remarried her ex husband to try and work things out, but she also had a short relationship with this other guy. She divorced her ex husband, then met me, and was still having email communication with this guy. I had to tell her to tell him that she is now married and to stop communication with this guy. She made me write the email to him and then I had her block his email because he kept trying to contact her. I have no idea if there are others, or if she every reconnected with this guy, but I would not be surprised if she has. Right now her son is out of town and she is home alone. We have not seen each other in 3 weeks, so someone/something has to fill the emptiness.

Here is my thinking, if things are going well between you and a BPD, and they paint you black (make you the bad guy in their head for some benign reason), then the emptiness needs to be filled and that's when they may go out and talk with others. They can also triangulate you with another person.

I hope this helps give you some insight. I'm in therapy now trying to sort out the damage I got from my relationship and try to regain some self worth; I would give and get very little in return.

[Love Is Not Enough]

My story is similar to yours. I am 35 and also very financially stable. I also met my gf at work and she stalked me in a similar way. The biggest difference is that my gf is 8 years further along than yours with two kids of her own. To answer some of your questions:

Yes, the over the top loving feelings are just an act. I do not really think it is intentional or predatory. Just the way they function. Although sometimes you will really question their intentions. It is usually referred to as mirroring as mentioned previously. When you move in together she will probably begin to rage much more since she will feel she has you trapped now. The more control they have over you, the more of their true self you will see.

Which brings me to my most important advice: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GET HER PREGNANT! I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH! She will own you and feel entitled to rage at you non-stop. Even marriage is out of the question. My gf desperately wants another baby also as her youngest is getting older. She struggles to care for the two she has now and has no business with another child. Children put a massive amount of stress on them and this causes them to deregulate more frequently and intensely. I even considered getting a vasectomy before she agreed to getting an IUD.

They have a fantasy that they want in their head, but they are unable in any way to make those things happens. Yes, she wants to be normal and have the white picket fence with a family, but they are unable to do the things to make that happen. My gf talks about it all the time, but the reality is that if I was not there providing an extra set of hands to help with the kids and most of the financial support, she would be a total mess. She would be raging at the children and probably acting out in very self-destructive ways. She has talked about school and all these plans to better herself, but she just cannot get it together to accomplish any of it. I just listen to all of her "plans" and act as supportive as possible, but I do not put much expectation behind them.

The drug use is a huge problem and I can guarantee that her moving in with you will change nothing. She uses them to cope and if she does manage to stop using then she will most likely rage at you more. My gf had a cocaine habit before she had kids. She used it to cope and I always think she may go back to it one day. She swears she never will because of her children, but that brings me to my next point.

You can trust nothing they say. Your gf has already proven that over and over to you. You can only reference her ACTIONS. That is the only truth you will ever get from her. You are also concerned about how promiscuous she was in the past. You will NEVER get the truth about this. I have caught my gf in many contradictions about this subject and she also told me stories that ended with her saying just made it up to mess with me. There are no telling how many people she has been with and I do my best not to think about it anymore. I do not really discuss much of anything of any substance with her anymore because I know I will never get a truthful answer. There is no possibility of an actual intimate relationship with her. I gave up. I do not think she has ever physically cheated on me, but I wouldn't be surprised to find it out. I fully expect that if I stick it out with her long enough, she eventually will. So watch her actions. The drug use , lying , spending money and raging at you . That is your truth.

My gf also had a much older man who abused her. She was supposedly 18 (I think 16 in reality) and he was 34. Classic NPD from her description and from what I found online. If half the stuff she told me about him is true then it was a horrible relationship. He still "owns" her in my opinion and always will. Her main issues are with her drug addict mother who severely neglected her as a baby. Luckily she was taken away from her mother at an early age, but I think the damage was already done. There is also a strong genetic component to this disorder. I also see the emotionally sensitivity in her two children. Her mother and two sisters also have it. So keep that in mind when considering having a child with her.

You really should focus on your children. Your efforts with your gf will most likely prove futile and you may not see results for years. This even if she is willing to work on herself, which does not sound like it does presently. She may say so when she is in a good state of mind, but that will change quickly when she becomes dysregulated. She really is her own worst enemy right now. YOU CANNOT FIX HER. She has to make the changes herself. You really do not want her influencing your children.

The best advice I can give you is to do not move any further in the relationship and keep it as it is now until you figure out what is best for you and your children. You really have to focus on yourself and figure out how and why you got into a relationship like this in the first place. You are like a lot of posters here wanting to help people. Unfortunately we do not always do a good job helping ourselves first. The silver lining is that I have learned a lot about myself and have improved in many ways. But at what cost?

[PullToEject]

"Like I said before I do love her very much and see the good in her. But due to her condition and age, would I be better to let her go and get the therapy she needs to get better without me?"

--- Brother, the one thing you don't understand is, there is no "letting her go" - you are tangled up in her web and in deep enough that she will never let you let her go without some serious stuff hitting the proverbial fan.  I don't say this to scare you, but to let you know what is in store.  Suicide threats, showing up at your home and work, vandalizing your car - these are all very real possibilities if you try to leave. 

Undecided:  Staying or Leaving is a misnomer.  I believe a lot of us have tried to leave, and stayed not because we wanted to, but because the hailstorm associated with trying to leave is even more intolerable than staying.  I have aborted the attempt twice, the last time at the request of her son (he lives with her) - he couldn't take it anymore and he was BEGGING me to come back.  I couldn't take the guilt.

I'm at the juncture where as terrible as it sounds - I feel the best outcome I can expect is for some guy like you to come around and take her off my hands.  Like a buddy of mine said to me "you're trying to teach her to swim before you kick her out of the boat, and what she REALLY needs is to find a bigger better boat".   The one thing I got going for me is that she is extremely beautiful, and that day may actually come. 

[btechpc]

Thank you so much for the insightful responses guys. I'm really worried about what I've gotten myself into and I'm feeling kinda sick inside. I'm usually way better at seeing these types of things, I guess I was just vulnerable and she got me. I agree that I think this genetic as both her parents seem like they may suffer from this and I know her dad is bipolar.

Before you moved in with these women did you go weeks without any issues or rage fits? Did they make it seem like they would be the perfect wife/gf and take care of their own homes well and be loving?

I had an incident today where my son hit his head so I needed to take him to the hospital so I could not keep my commitments with her, but she didn't flip out and seemed very concerned about him. I was expecting she was gonna flip out, but she said she was sick with worry. Is this just mirroring? She did however text me complaining of a stomach ache later in the day when she found out he was ok.

Also, did they always seem to worry about being pregnant? My gf is on the pill and I usually see her take it so I'm not too worried. She always complains about stomach pain or sore breasts and feeling sick, then it's another pregnancy test (always negative) I've spent so much on them I'm actually buying the wharehouse sized pack at Costco! It just seems ridiculous :-/

Thanks again guys!

B

[Proud_Dad]

btechpc,

I have to reiterate what was already said:

Which brings me to my most important advice: DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GET HER PREGNANT! I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH! She will own you and feel entitled to rage at you non-stop. Even marriage is out of the question.

Well, pretty much that whole post but the above especially. Take care of you and YOUR kids first.

Good luck brother.

One last thought... . I don't know if your part of the world has a "dollar store" or "99 cent store" but pregnancy tests can be had for a buck a pop from them. They are exactly the same as the expensive name brands and work just as well. We have used them many many times, and beleive me, they work for positive and negative results, as now I am... .

ProudDad

[PullToEject]

"Before you moved in with these women did you go weeks without any issues or rage fits? Did they make it seem like they would be the perfect wife/gf and take care of their own homes well and be loving?"

WELL - yes, absolutely.  We have had some amazing times.  For me, things were pretty great at first.  When she was working full time and staying with me only on the weekends.  My friends all thought she was great.  She was low-maintenance in the sense that she didn't care what we did or where we went, she just liked being with me.  And an extremely beautiful woman  that is happy just being with you is the best feeling in the world.   

My GF can be extremely loving, caring, and has many good qualities.  The good times are REALLY good and the bad times are a nightmare I would not wish on anyone.  It really is a roller coaster. 

[btechpc]

Thanks guys. I'm glad to hear from everyone about this, I'm feeling better and know what I'm seeing and feeling is real. I started to feel like I was going crazy from her and all the rage fits she was pulling on me. I'm just so torn up inside as I really do love her a lot, but everyone here from what I can read has nothing but heart ache and misery. I think I do need to take a second look at this whole thing. I just need to make a plan in my head of how to approach it and try and get away with as little damage to me and my kids. I just hope she doesn't go too ballistic... .

[SimplySeattle]

Good luck brother. This board helped me tremendously as I'm sure it will do the same for you. Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the BPD relationship, it's hard to differentiate if your sane or not (or who the bad person really is). Visiting this forum, along with some therapy with a counselor who knows BPD, will help you keep one foot in reality and make solid decisions about your relationship.

When I first met my undiagnosed BPD wife, things were wonderful.  I can remember our first fight though. We were laying on the bed and I took a silly (candid) picture of her and she freaked out! She raged and told me that image of her belongs to her and I needed to delete it immediately. I could not figure it out (since the relationship was fairly new and I did not know about her condition). I thought she was joking, but she was very serious, persisted, and was a bit of a bully. I stood up to her and told her what she could do with herself, and she went into the bathroom and cried for an hour. Something so harmless turned into a big blow up. It's really strange, but she does have over 100 self portraits in her Ipad.

The good thing is that we live in separate homes because she is in Canada and I'm in the U.S. I was going to do her immigration paperwork, but after I started seeing the signs of her behavior, I decided that I didn't want to import the problems here and live with it 24/7 until she gets some help. She was going to see a counselor, but has since stopped because she feels tired.

By the way, my wife is also extremely attractive and gets complemented a lot, but I would trade that tomorrow for someone who has a good hart and is sane. Beauty is skin deep, and when you mix BPD into the relationship, it really doesn't matter what they look like; they may look beautiful on the outside, but are just an empty shell within.

[Love Is Not Enough]

Good luck brother. This board helped me tremendously as I'm sure it will do the same for you. Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the BPD relationship, it's hard to differentiate if your sane or not (or who the bad person really is). Visiting this forum, along with some therapy with a counselor who knows BPD, will help you keep one foot in reality and make solid decisions about your relationship.

It's really strange, but she does have over 100 self portraits in her Ipad.

I wish I had come here the day my T told me about BPD. I wonder if I would be out of this nightmare by now? My gf also takes a lot of selfies and will also flip out on me if I take a candid one of her. She is very self conscious and will usually only like 1 out of 20 pictures she sees of herself. I bet this is pretty common among pwBPD.

Before you moved in with these women did you go weeks without any issues or rage fits? Did they make it seem like they would be the perfect wife/gf and take care of their own homes well and be loving?

I had an incident today where my son hit his head so I needed to take him to the hospital so I could not keep my commitments with her, but she didn't flip out and seemed very concerned about him. I was expecting she was gonna flip out, but she said she was sick with worry. Is this just mirroring? She did however text me complaining of a stomach ache later in the day when she found out he was ok.

Sometimes they can go for extended periods of time when everything is fine. Then all of the sudden from seemingly out of nowhere it just all changes in an instant. My gf can also be fine with changing commitments one time and flip out the next time. I never know what is going to trigger her. I went to a friends house for a party and she was fine. Then the next time I am taking lunch back to my work when she calls me on her break and she flips out on me. She had concocted some scenario in her head I was having an affair with someone at work. She wouldn't tell me that when it happened and just gave me the silent treatment for the rest of the day. So there is no rhyme or reason to it. You end up just not telling them anything because you just never know.

Also, did they always seem to worry about being pregnant? My gf is on the pill and I usually see her take it so I'm not too worried. She always complains about stomach pain or sore breasts and feeling sick, then it's another pregnancy test (always negative) I've spent so much on them I'm actually buying the wharehouse sized pack at Costco! It just seems ridiculous :-/

From what you have said previously I would guess that she might be tricking herself into thinking she is pregnant because she wants a child so badly. They think it will fill the emptiness inside of them, but sadly it will only bring another soul into the world that will suffer their abuse. My gf's half-sister has the most serious issues out of everyone in her family. She meets all the criteria and is not stable at all. She would post on FB and tell everyone she was pregnant all the time and then say she would miscarry. She would hook up with anyone and everyone trying to get pregnant. We had hoped that she was unable to conceive, but then she did actually get pregnant. We tried to help her, but it was just one drama after the next with her supposedly abusive boyfriend. I am pretty sure she was the one abusing him from things my gf has told me about her. The sister asked for a large sum of money when the guy finally left and when my gf didn't give it to her (she didn't have it) the sister cut her off. Last we heard she was homeless and we have no idea where the baby is.

I think I do need to take a second look at this whole thing. I just need to make a plan in my head of how to approach it and try and get away with as little damage to me and my kids. I just hope she doesn't go too ballistic... .

That is a great idea. Do not just drop her. She will most likely punish you in some way, but you might be able to minimize it. I know I have read about this somewhere. It said to try and detach from them slowly over a period of time. This will also give them more time to find your replacement. If she finds someone else then she will less apt to come after you. Drop hints that you do not things are going well. Post a new question on here and search how to detach from a BPD. If I can find what I am thinking of I'll post a link. Good luck and let us know your progress!

[Mazda]

Pull to eject,

May I suggest that you also post this on the leaving board?  I spend most if my time there as I am now in the trying to detach but really stopping myself from kicking him in the balls stage.  A lot of people there (myself included) have had a lot of time to reflect and have a lot of knowledge from the entire process. There are so many red flags in what you have said and I really strongly suggest that you seriously save yourself more heartache, but I feel those on the leaving board may convince you as well. Believe me, as time goes by the good times, you realise, are all just a facade.  The abuse is the real person.  This girl is seriously borderline and does all the dirty manipulation and abuse techniques.  She is dangerous.

[pallavirajsinghani]

btecpc:

A seed sown in sand does not grow... . whether watered in tears or blood.

And yes, she is worthy of courtesy and affection and caring and respect... . she is worthy of unconditional love, total acceptance, total sacrifice, complete dedication, undivided attention... . yes, she is worthy as a human being just as you are worthy of exactly the same as a human being.

The issue is not whether she is a good person or not, or whether she is telling the truth or not.

The issue is whether she is capable of a certain level of continuous self-discipline.  Her behavior shows otherwise.  How can one have complete unrestrained freedom and yet be a social human being?  There has to be a balance.  She is not just a helpless product of her past experiences... . there is a pattern here of her continuously refusing to get over the negative repercussions of those experiences. 

My mother is a survivor of intense physical abuse at the hand of her mother.  She is also a survivor of 3 (yes, three) genocides.  She has been a widow now longer than she had been married.  She is a survivor of intense and continuous abuse by my UND BPD SIL.  And yet, you will not find a more positive and disciplined person than her.  She tells us all the time to make happiness a choice.  To choose optimism resolutely and consistently against all odds.  To seek solutions against all impediments and to never give up seeking healthy life style and healthy solutions.

So what is it that has prevented my mother from being an abuser herself and from becoming a personality disordered woman?  I cannot answer that question.

All I can tell you that my mother has that ability and your girl friend does not.

She has captured your youth for you.  She gave you your youth back for a few moments.  Yet, these moments cannot be sustained as her issues are unresolved. 

You have a choice of either taking very good care of your own children and helping them become productive and satisfied individuals or enabling a childlike legal adult.

Please read the various tools mentioned here on the site (the various communication techniques, enacting personal boundaries and consistently enforcing them on yourself etc. etc.)  These tools have been very helpful in mitigating the harmful effects of BPD on people who love/are in a relationship with  the BPD sufferers.

And of course, this classic fable would be insightful: 

www.thecruxmovie.com/pdf/TheBridgeShortStory.pdf

[PullToEject]

Mazda - Yes, I'll also be posting on the leaving board as well.  One more thing... . I found a therapist whose practice offered group DBT therapy sessions as I hoped the GF would get the help she needs.  Long story short - I ended up booking a private session with him to talk about a "leaving plan" and really opened up about all that I have been through.  It was probably the best $160 I've spent in a long time.  We spend so much time worrying about the BPD we forget how messed up we can end up emotionally.  I'm sure that is what is what you mean by it being reflected in my posts - it has been a traumatic ride for me for sure.  Still is.  

[Mazda]

Mazda - Yes, I'll also be posting on the leaving board as well.  One more thing... . I found a therapist whose practice offered group DBT therapy sessions as I hoped the GF would get the help she needs.  Long story short - I ended up booking a private session with him to talk about a "leaving plan" and really opened up about all that I have been through.  It was probably the best $160 I've spent in a long time.  We spend so much time worrying about the BPD we forget how messed up we can end up emotionally.  I'm sure that is what is what you mean by it being reflected in my posts - it has been a traumatic ride for me for sure.  Still is.  

Don't be too hard on yourself, so many have done that.  The number of times my therapist had to tell me to stop talking about voldemort and concentrate on myself... .

I am glad that you have come up with a leaving plan.  We can't tell you what to do, but I will tell you that I do think this is the best outcome for both yourself and your children.  Tip for the future from a woman: if she sounds too good to be true, she probably isn't true.  Especially if you are wealthy, be even more cautious of the women who fall for you (I myself will admit that a bank balance makes a guy more attractive!). Not all women are like this, but some are.  Red flags: she makes you pay for her drug habit.

[Love Is Not Enough]

I know I have read about this somewhere. It said to try and detach from them slowly over a period of time. This will also give them more time to find your replacement. If she finds someone else then she will less apt to come after you. Drop hints that you do not things are going well. Post a new question on here and search how to detach from a BPD. If I can find what I am thinking of I'll post a link. Good luck and let us know your progress!

It was here on this site of course! https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm

I have read so many books and so much information online I can't keep up with all of it.

Also make sure to think of specifically what she might do or who she might contact and figure out ways to protect against it. If there is someone she might contact then you might want to warn them if possible. Just be prepared for anything. You just never know what they will come up with.