Thoughts on Closure

[seeking balance]

HI Leaving Board!

Over the years, closure is a struggle for many people on the forum.  I recently read some wise words that it isn’t closure so much as “better outcome”.

By definition:

1. The act of closing or the state of being closed: closure of an incision.

2. Something that closes or shuts.

a. A bringing to an end; a conclusion: finally brought the project to closure.

b. A feeling of finality or resolution, especially after a traumatic experience.

One of the things that helped me was when I realized where my “lack of closure” tended to fall in the stages of grief.  Most of us here have heard of the stages and one that I think gets skipped over is BARGAINING.  This is where I found my own lack of closure living when I took the time to dig deep in my own emotions.  This happened when I stopped focusing on the BPD actions and started focusing on my own emotions.

Kubler-Ross says this:

1.   Bargaining — "I'll do anything for a few more years."; "I will give my life savings if…"

The third stage involves the hope that the individual can somehow postpone or delay death. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made with a higher power in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. Psychologically, the individual is saying, "I understand I will die, but if I could just do something to buy more time…" People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example "Can we still be friends?" when facing a break-up.

Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if it is a matter of life or death.

GULP – that last sentence is a doozy. 

Do you think lack of closure you feel is in the bargaining phase of grief?  If not, where?

Peace,

SB

[bewildered2]

they are not interested in closure because they want:

1. to keep the door open (for them, in case it is useful)

2. because they know it hurts you (and they like to hurt people they are close to)

nice, huh?

that's the way it is with these types.

b2

 

[seeking balance]

they are not interested in closure because they want:

1. to keep the door open (for them, in case it is useful)

2. because they know it hurts you (and they like to hurt people they are close to)

nice, huh?

that's the way it is with these types.

b2

 

Yeah, that is them b2 - how did you come to closure for you?

[fromheeltoheal]

I decided I wasn't getting the closure I yearned for at the end of the relationship because I had the wrong definition of closure.  Closure at the end of a relationship meant to me that we would sit down and talk like adults, admit our mistakes in the relationship, forgive each other, remember some good times, express our sadness that it didn't work out, and go our separate ways wishing each other well.  It took me a while to accept that we never had conversations like that in the relationship, so how could I expect one at the end?

I got busy redefining what closure meant to me in this relationship, and I started to consciously decide that she's a sick person not a bad one, I didn't do anything at the end that made me feel guilty or require an apology, and the gift of the relationship was the wake-up call I got as a result of the way I had been living my life that got me into the relationship and had me ignore all those red flags to begin with.  Part of the closure, to put a bow on it so to speak, is to get very honest with myself and focus on living within my values and with integrity, become the whole person I'm capable of, so not only does it not happen again, but i attract healthier people because I'm living healthier.

[myself]

During recycles, it seemed a way to bring closure to the pain was by being together again. It didn't work. Letting go, knowing we can not be a couple again, does not bring closure as much as a resigned relief. I bargained whole years away. Now I've made a deal with myself to make the best of the ones to come. Maybe the best form of closure is how we can be so open with ourselves when we follow through with it.

[delusionalxox]

'People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example "Can we still be friends?" when facing a break-up.'

Ohhhh yeah. Think I've been in that phase for a good few months. Trying to 'save something' from the wreckage. Something to make me feel I didn't waste three years on a toxic nightmare!

On his part he always seems to be leaving the door open for the ideal/hated 'mother/partner' to save him, help him, finally be everything he wants and accept all the hate, be blamed for everything including his patently appalling behaviour.

It has to end and we have to do it because they cannot.

Closure for me has felt painful but I know it is beginning. My anger comes and goes rather than dominating me. I still get horrible surges of pain, but the agonising fear as if I were about to die has left me, several months ago.  

its more a sense of 'what have I done to myself here, and why'

[delusionalxox]

One thing that has frightened me very much is that my process of closure has revealed to me how I sabotage myself, how one part of myself hates and punishes other parts. I have really brutalised myself.

I realise now I didn't deserve any of this pain, but I simply can't imagine a life without depression, guilt and self hatred... it has been the norm for me since childhood, when I was repeatedly told I was useless, stupid, ugly, embarrassing, the worst thing that had ever happened to my mother, etc (hollow laugh).

Can we recover self esteem when there has never been any? I feel as if I am really feeling now, the hollow where my self should be. Ex and his dramas and hatreds and our mutual need filled it for years. Now I have to feel it all.

[bewildered2]

Yeah, that is them b2 - how did you come to closure for you?[/quote]
I got closure once I realized what I was dealing with, and accepted the reality of the situation, that she was very disturbed, and that I was similarly unhealthy (emotionally) at the time, hence my vulnerability.

I was in a bad place too, which meant I kept hanging on... . but the difference was that I was able to do something about it.

b2



   

[RecycledNoMore]

I think closure for me has come in acceptance,the ex re engaged yesterday, expressing love and then intense hatred for me within a few hours, this was a very sobering experience,mostly because I saw it and recognised it for what it was,a disordered mind.

I think closure depends on where the individual is in their recovery process, my focus is more on me now than him, I have accepted the situation and know there is no going back, I also feel incredibly sad for him and the tortured life he leads.

I think if I was still in the bargining stage, I would have been looking to him for closure, and thats just not possible, so it comes down to me and what I decide for myself.

[Ironmanrises]

My thoughts still drift from side to side on closure, or the lack of closure. I had the perfect chance at closure when she reappeared right before round 2. I should have sealed the wound then and there. I didn't. That has had repercussions on me as I let her back in. Now that closure that was once at hand, has gone. That wound has been slow to heal. Some days are still unbearable. Not as bad as when I first came here, though. Yet when it surfaces, by Zeus, it hurts.

[Perfidy]

Not everyone experiences complicated grief where the stages are pronounced. Some grieve alone. Some grieve with support. Not all people experience grief the same way. This is something my counsellor told me a couple visits ago. She also told me that she feels most alcoholics and addicts suffer because of unresolved grief.

I know I am going through complicated grief. I had the initial shock. This was combined with denial. The denial was a buffering mechanism because the shock was so great I couldn't absorb it all at once. Then the bargaining. The bargaining didn't last long. I realized right away that it was useless because it hurt so bad. This is when I was trying to stay "friends" with her and she was feeding me false hope and using me. She tried to set me up. Telling people she was afraid of me while inviting contact with her. I stopped all physical contact at this point and only had phone, email, and other electronic communication. Again even buffered contact only caused more confusion and pain. By this time I had lapsed into massive depression and cried every day some times two or three times a day. this lasted for about three months. I became suicidal. I did not tell her. I didn't threaten or attempt suicide. It looked like a really good way to end my depression. I still have a certain amount of depression but haven't cried for many months. It is getting less as time goes on and I keep focused on my self. Depression has been the part of grieving that I am stuck in. The more I accept reality the easier it gets. I have days where I feel very strong and healthy. Other days I'm a little down but not suicudal. It's happening. I'm coming around.

[happylogist]

These are interesting points on parallels with bargaining and lack of closure. Since the stages of grief are not linear, meaning that one can go back to the previous ones, it is common to slip from bargaining to anger, which also does not help. In our situation, "Why me? Who can I blame?" and splitting and painting a BPD black adds up to the painful experience of having no closure and no power to negotiate.

I had closure when he tried to reengage me recently, and in a matter of two days wrote me beautiful and horrible things. As was written before for me as well closure meant more bargaining and negotiation, "adults talk" and I struggled with lack of that for six months while keeping NC with him. In my fantasies I hoped for his apology (got it sort of), regret for losing me (got it sort of) and hoping to be loved again (read idealized). But I never wanted the hurtful words, irritation and annoyance with me.  But it all came in one package This is where I had that very closure and "aha" moment of acceptance. I know now that there can not be idealization without devaluation, it is as natural as tide, or day followed by night. After this realization I find his behavior very "logical". I found the closure in accepting stability in his instability. I am not affected by confessions, but also I am not hurt or concerned about being painted black. I communicated with him carefully and keeping empathy, validation and understanding of his position but being firm with mine, at the end and he used a bit more white color on my previous layers of black and white. So I also know that I have some control. I also know that I can't have the communication with him like this... . I simply do not want it. I guess that was my one-sided bargaining.

[charred]

I have all the closure I am likely to ever get.

Accepting it is over, really over, and forgiving them... so I could let go of whatever that draw/attraction was.

Now when i think of her, I think of the bad stuff, the issues, and her PD... . and don't feel drawn toward her.

For me closure is closing the door on the r/s... . and I know I did it, as I have moved on with another r/s.

I think the only closure comes from you closing it.

[santa]

I don't think I will ever receive closure from my ex. I've decided to take it for myself though. Basically, just make your own decision that this person means nothing to you. You don't care a thing about them. Nothing they ever do or say matters to you. Then just try to stop thinking about it. It's getting easier everyday.

[delusionalxox]

Santa that is the type of closure I am modelling myself on.

I want to let go of the anger and hate I feel. Which comes in waves now and is not all the time.

Also, I miss him, and that I realise is OK. I don't miss the 'bad half' of him. I miss what was good. We spent three years together and I loved him, gave way more of myself than I should have. That's ok. I have to forgive him and myself.

I am not there yet, and have been sending him angry emails after he cut me dead following my apology to him (which in his mind, just cemented my guilt for the entire relationship, and he took it as me admitting to being an 'abuser' and having 'ruined' him  ). I cannot talk to him in any nuanced way. He is a child who reacts in black and white only. Fair enough, I don't want that in my life now.

I just need to let go of the anger, now that the bargaining phase is well and truly over.

Perhaps the worst thing about trying to get 'closure' was seeing how all my good intentions and attempts to be grown up and fair were dismissed, twisted and basically ___ on. But that his him, he is that way, he always was that way and he will very probably never change.

It is not my fault, even if he decided to blame me for his own truly appalling behaviour. I know this and this is partial closure.

[delusionalxox]

Perfidy staying in the bargaining phase also kept me in depression.

With me, it's complicated as I have longstanding depresssion and very poor self esteem which predated ex and I think made me even more likely to fall for him. He treated me like a piece of ___ but he loved me... . it was like a drug. He 'validated' my view of myself as dangerous, toxic, awful... . yet he kept coming back.

What he did at the end broke the cycle. I may have very little self esteem but I have too much to accept cheating and being dumped to go through an abortion alone. I saw once and for all that it wasn't me.

Once I had refused his pleas to go back to him (combined with increasing hints that I was to blame for his actions, particularly the more I withdrew from him) that was it, his gloves came off and I realised all his apologies were really fake.

He flipped within days from 'sorry sorry sorry' to 'this is all your fault, you should feel honoured that I still speak to you'. I had enough of this abuse.

I also have a more recent ex who though upset at our split treats me like a human being and still talks to me. I spoke to him today. No bitterness, no nastiness, no clinging and pleas. He feels down but doesn't blame me. Because he is healthy and positive.

It doesn't have to be the way it was with ex. And I will never accept it again. I struggle with being alone and aging, feeling it will be forever. But even 20  years alone would be better than 20 days with him again!

[Dog biscuit]

The closure I find comes from realising and accepting that I can never be truly happy with him, and I want to become truly happy and relaxed with someone I am romantically involved with.

I do not want to be someones caretaker, rock, mother, push and pull around person, in a relationship. I need equality in a relationship to truly feel safe and loved. He could not provide this, as I could/would not provide for the part he needs. A mismatch made in hell. It would never work.

That closes the door for me, there is no turning back.

I will not get closure from him without hurt, and I accept it. I dont want to hurt myself any longer so I let go of the need for closure from him. The closure I find lies within myself and the conclusions I made about the relationship.

[Dog biscuit]

The closure I find comes from realising and accepting that I can never be truly happy with him, and I want to become truly happy and relaxed with someone I am romantically involved with.

I do not want to be someones caretaker, rock, mother, push and pull around person, in a relationship. I need equality in a relationship to truly feel safe and loved. He could not provide this, as I could/would not provide for the part he needs. A mismatch made in hell. It would never work.

Realising the above, closes the door for me, there is no turning back.

I will not get closure from him without hurt, and I accept it. I dont want to hurt myself any longer so I let go of the need for closure from him. The closure I find lies within myself and the conclusions I made about the relationship.

[delusionalxox]

Dogbiscuit very mature and inspiring thoughts.

you seem to have found the forgiveness I have not yet found.

[CoasterRider]

I struggle for closure to much as dogbiscuit, I know in my heart I deserve better than what I was getting from this person as far as treatment and equality.

However, the concept of love is one to ME atleast that is unconditional regardless of the other persons faults. So we love them even with their disorder.

Nothing more I would enjoy than my ex swooping back in a changes person. However, I realized much or our dynamic fed off of each other. Me being a "white knight/rescuer" mentality and him needing to be rescued. So if we both change, the glue that held us together would be gone. The reasons for even getting into that relationship are no longer valid. So who's to say whether it would even work out.

[fromheeltoheal]

The closure I find comes from realising and accepting that I can never be truly happy with him, and I want to become truly happy and relaxed with someone I am romantically involved with.

I do not want to be someones caretaker, rock, mother, push and pull around person, in a relationship. I need equality in a relationship to truly feel safe and loved. He could not provide this, as I could/would not provide for the part he needs. A mismatch made in hell. It would never work.

That closes the door for me, there is no turning back.

I will not get closure from him without hurt, and I accept it. I dont want to hurt myself any longer so I let go of the need for closure from him. The closure I find lies within myself and the conclusions I made about the relationship.

Nice!