But he's never mean

[AllisG]

My bf has never been verbally or physically abusive to me.  I'm starting to see he abuses me in other ways.

But the fact that he's never called me names or raged at me is something he uses against me when we're arguing. 

For example: 

I've never been anything but good to you.

How can you do this to me?  I could never do anything like this to you.

Why is it so easy for you to be angry with me and so hard for you to be loving?  I can never do that to you

I am not a bad person.  I do only good things for you.

And he does wonderful things for me.  As I've said before... . when it's good it is incredible.  Everything a girl dreams of.  But when it's bad it's not very good.

It's been more bad then good lately.

We spend on average 3 hours day rehashing something I've done or said wrong.  He never says I'm horrible or berates me. It's the mistrust, guilt trips, nagging, questioning, assumptions. 

I feel like he's always on the look out for something to call me out on.  Any slip up.  We can't go a day without some type of drama.  But like I said, he's never mean.  "Why would I leave someone who treats me so well?" is what he'd say. 

[maxsterling]

I had a NPD ex girlfriend who was never "mean".  Or so I thought.  She very rarely used bad language, never directly insulted, hit, threw things, or raised her voice.  That is, until she got drunk or stoned.  Then it was chaos - the intoxication and she became Ms. Hyde.  I thought she simply had a drinking problem, and if she just stayed sober she would be fine. 

A few months after we broke up, I realized she was mean all the time in such a sneaky way.  I understand the direct insults or violence or foul language.  It's that constant low level stuff that wore me down.  Every conversation was her telling me how I should do something different, questioning the way I did things, or implying that her way of living was better.  This was constant, and because she was so polite and considerate, I didn't even see how mean she really was.  The first time she came to my house she threw away my toothpaste!  Why?  Because she thought I should use a different brand.  A few days later she gave me a little gift bag that included kitchen utensils, some special super organic toothpaste, and other items.  And I thought she was so sweet, giving me all those new things.  But really, it was just a condemnation of how I lived my life. 

Just because he is not obviously mean doesn't mean that he isn't mean.  A bunch of underhanded stuff can hurt far, far worse than nasty words.

[Clearmind]

Alli, he is not you - what he says about how he treats you does not dictate how it is for you. When we walk on eggshells for so long we tend to bargain - i.e. - "but he's really good when he's good" type stuff.

These 3 hour rehashing sessions are aimed to wear you down - what can you do to stop these? What boundaries/limits can you set around this - it is simply not fair on you.

[AllisG]

I'm having a lot of trouble with boundaries.

I try to set limits.  For example I'll say we can talk when he's had time to think and to calm down.  Then he'll text, call, message me on fb telling me how I'm toying with him, ignoring him, etc.

I also find that I'm a large part of the problem in that I HAVE to explain and defend myself against his baseless accusations.

Today he is upset with me again. I told him I'd talk to him soon and after about an hour and a half I still hadn't, I was still occupied.  He's been telling me how unacceptable that was, and how it was toying with his feelings.  Literally after an hour and a half of no contact. 

I can't do this all day. 

Idk what to do anymore. 

[AllisG]

Where are there good readings online about setting and maintaining limits?

[Clearmind]

Boundaries are a a must to protect you Alli - these demands over text etc is not fair and I would suggest you also start to work on your own guilt for not answer them. Do you fear what he may do if you don't?

The 3 hour rehashing session are circular arguments: How to stop circular arguments

Protecting Ourselves with Values and Boundaries

Can I suggest you have a really good look through the lessons on this board. You can find them here: Putting all the lessons together

[sharlock]

He may not be mean verbally or physically, but emotionally he could be "mean".  The unrealistic expectations, demands of all sorts, push/pull, one-sideness, ... .   My exBPD friend was never mean verbally or physically either.  The emotionally drama was extreme to say the very least.  It really took a toll on me, and I'm still recovering.

[ATLandon]

I can only speak from my own experiences and opinions with a uBPD wife, but your guy sounds similar to my wife. According to her she has never lied to me, never done anything wrong to me, and has never started an argument in our 10 year relationship.   

IMO, her constant nagging, gas lighting, blaming me for her and our problems, saying I will never find anyone as good as her, etcetera, blah blah blah, and so forth... . ALL of that constitutes as emotional abuse to me. Healthy people don't habitually emotionally blackmail people they love. I understand the fact that my wife isn't emotionally healthy and doesn't fully understand the pain she inflicts on me, but that doesn't change the fact that is indeed abusive and harmful to my mental health. I realized how I react and interpret what she says/does now

is important to minimize damage to my psyche.

I'm sorry if its upsetting but he is emotionally abusing you, which is mean, though likely not intentional on his end. Validation and thoughtful communication does wonders in changing the dynamic for both people.

[momtara]

I used to say, of my ex husband, "But he's really nice to me sometimes."  People said to me, "He's supposed to be nice to you ALL the time!"

So, there you have it.

[Obibens]

This is the story of my 23 year marriage.  

I would say my wife was never really mean to me.  Except maybe for the time she called me a worthless wimpy parent in front of my 13 yr old.  

She never really cursed at me.  Except naybe for the time she called me a pathetic, lying, sack of sh!t in front of that same child.  But that's ok cause she did apologize to the child and told her I shouldn't have called your dad a 'sack of sh!t' (nothing about pathetic or lying).  

She never lied.  Except for the hundreds of times she'd gaslight me and said she never said something or that I did say something.  Or the time she told me she told me she never called our daughter a 'slut' and a 'drug dealer' in an email to my mom.  Even though my mom forwarded me the email.

She never verbally abused me.  Excpet maybe the time she called me a 'sick SOB, selfish bast@rd, mentally ill baby, selfish father, narcissitic word-twister, and completely unlovable' all during a 5 minute drive.

To be honest... . in some ways this behaviour is harder to deal with then the more overt abuse, because you keep telling yourself 'oh, maybe I'm just too sensitive'.  This stuff gets deep deep deep into your psyche and really messes with ya.

My 13 yr old daughter was at her therapist for despression, and told the T that she got mad when her mom told her she 'looked beautiful'.  The T asked her why that annoyed her, and my daughter couldn't answer except for 'it just does'.  So the T. tells my daughter she is overreacting and her mom is just being loving and nice.  Except for the fact that within the last year her mom has told her countless times she needs to quit 'dressing like a boy',  'at least try to look like a girl', and constantly teases her about always wearing her soccer clothes, and asks her 'do you even CARE what you look like?'.   So, yeah, I can't imagine why my daughter gets annoyed why her mom tells her she 'looks beautiful today'.


But I can't leave her - she's just too nice and too good a person.   Sigh

Besides... . it's all my fault anyways

[AllisG]

Yeah, it's all my fault too. 

We are having an awful night.

He scheduled me an appt. for Valentine's Day without checking with my schedule.  I have to work, as I do every Friday afternoon every week.  But somehow this is a rejection of him, that I can't keep the appt means I don't love him. 

I've listened to him for two hours tell me how bad I don't give a hit about him.  And about how much he does for me, and how all he wanted was for me to be happy.

It's so exhausting.  So frustrating it nearly drives me to tears. 

Thanks for your advice and understanding.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

We spend on average 3 hours day rehashing something I've done or said wrong.  He never says I'm horrible or berates me. It's the mistrust, guilt trips, nagging, questioning, assumptions. 

I feel like he's always on the look out for something to call me out on.  Any slip up.  We can't go a day without some type of drama.  But like I said, he's never mean.  "Why would I leave someone who treats me so well?" is what he'd say. 

I also find that I'm a large part of the problem in that I HAVE to explain and defend myself against his baseless accusations.

With my uBPDw it's not as bad as 3 hours a day, but for me step one was finally NOT explaining and defending myself.

Yesterday I closed on my parent's condo.  For two days I heard "so, you don't need me to go" and even better "what does she look like?" (the latter being I'm jeopardizing our marriage by putting myself into situations where I could make a connection and slowly slip away from her... . ). 

If I show the slightest annoyance at any time, it starts the cycle (why are you so defensive... . that's why I can't trust you... . ).  I made it through 2 days by ignoring where she trying to lead me and cheerfully answering the questions and only the questions.

Yesterday would have sucked if I just once responded "What difference does it make" when she asked what she looked like... .

[AllisG]

I need to be better at not explaining or defending myself.  When I don't though, and don't take the bait he turns up the venom, the self pity, and guilt trips.

When I try to set boundaries in a situation like this by saying when he's calm or we've had more time to think he takes it as a huge rejection.

After yesterday's argument continued this morning I could take no more.  I told him I did not like the way he was talking to me and if he continued.  Of course he feigned innocence yet continued to attack me about a perceived slight. 

I then told him I'd talk to him tomorrow.

He said if I was taking a break it meant we had to break up.

I replied it didn't mean that.  But he said if I didn't talk to him til tomorrow we were breaking up.

I told him that was his choice. 

Nope, I was wrong... . it's my choice.  If I NC him for one day I am breaking up with him and he's cutting all ties to me, like he never existed.

Only I know he'd never do that. 

[Moselle]

Hi AllisG.

It must be agonizing for you to go through this, and I am so sorry that it's a loved one doing it to you.

Well done for your self preservation though! How did your 1 day of no talking to him go?

I did a similar thing this week, for two days to my uBPDw and to be honest I was desperate to phone her, to check if she was angry and to seek her approval. I know there to be co-dependent traits in me. But I didn't! She is realizing something is changing, but I'm not sure if this will send her deeper into the crazy stuff, or she grasps the opportunity to change. And I accept that that is her choice. A choice I'm completely powerless over.

I'm realizing that each day I'm responsible for my own happiness, and it's independent of her.

Good luck on your journey

But I have made a decision that I will not go back to an undiagnosed BPD wife.