Mediation... can it be done?

[Cimbaruns]

I'm curious if anyone here has had a successful mediation experience?

My exBPDw and I don't share anything jointly(2 separate houses) and have only been married 2 years of which we only really lived together for 6 months.

I have ordered the book Splitting by Bill Eddy.  And I know he cautions that this process can be a nightmare with a BPD spouse.

Anyone who could share with me their experience would be helpful

[ForeverDad]

A few basic pointers:

• Most courts require mediation, usually as an early step in the divorce process.  So attempt it in good faith but realize that your spouse is likely be too entitled to be agreeable to any reasonable settlement.  Usually a settlement isn't reached until the other spouse has exhausted all other ways to delay, obstruct, demand, etc and feels less entitled, often just before a trial, hearing or other major event that could expose the spouse's poor behavior and behavior patterns.  Knowing that, it's okay for mediation to fail but at least you tried and can state so if the judge asks.  (Some states don't allow the mediation process to report back what went wrong or why or who, just Yes it succeeded or No it failed.)



• It's okay to ask for separate rooms if the tensions or conflict are high or the face-to-face unnerves you.



• Beware of the inexperienced or lazy mediator who sees you're the reasonable person and expects you to always give in since the mediator knows your spouse won't budge at all.



• Some states don't allow lawyers or others to participate.  However, you can always ask for a restroom break and call your lawyer or other support from there.  You never need to feel Stuck or Cornered or Forced to Give In.



• Don't start with a "fair" offer.  Don't start with your "final" offer either.  We here are likely to be too fair, too thoughtful, to nice, too whatever.  It would be like a contest between a sponge and a brick wall, we'd probably walk out with very little.



• It's okay to say "No!"  Remember, mediation is an early step in the process, mediation does not have to succeed, especially if success means the terms are lousy for you and your children.



• Don't expect your spouse to reciprocate your good motives.  Reciprocity seldom happens.



• Concessions are likely to invite more and more demands.  Sadly, a disordered spouse can interpret reasonableness as weakness and an invitation to be less cooperative.



• People with BPD can't negotiate as we can.  Their perceptions, moods and feelings affect them too deeply and their greatest power is convincing us they can't ever be reasonable and so we give in and give up.  (Appeasing didn't work in the past, it won't work here.)



• See it as setting boundaries.  Let your No mean No.  Some things are non-negotiable.  Other things can be part of deals.



• It is vital to start by asking more than you expect to walk out with.  Why?  You already know your spouse will have his or her own extremely high demands.  You start high too so you have to have some things to give up in negotiation.



• Let your spouse feel a 'winner' by getting some things you had initially said you wanted but in reality were willing to let go.  That's strategy.  That's negotiation.



• Don't counter your own offers.  For example, if you state what you want and spouse doesn't counter with what spouse wants, then don't fill the void by making concessions just because you want to fill the silence.



• Be prepared for surprises.  Go in hoping for success, but plan for either success or failure.



• For most here, mediation failed.  That's okay, you just keep the case moving along to the next steps in court.

[seeking balance]

I'm curious if anyone here has had a successful mediation experience?

My exBPDw and I don't share anything jointly(2 separate houses) and have only been married 2 years of which we only really lived together for 6 months.

I have ordered the book Splitting by Bill Eddy.  And I know he cautions that this process can be a nightmare with a BPD spouse.

Anyone who could share with me their experience would be helpful

In my state, a MSC is mandatory before trial - simply to get to this process by the court took 10 months and 15K.

ForeverDad gave good points - he is a wealth of info.

Mine went after temporary spousal support, which I thought ridiculous (she is a phD) we had only been domestic partner 4 years and 1.5 married... . she won it.  I don't make much more than her and was willing to take on a bunch of debt and split our house.  I had a bad attorney (which I fired and hired better) and she had an attorney who milked the system.  At the end, almost exactly what I offered originally was what was settled - BPD is not about fair, it is about winning/losing when it comes to divorce.  Since it is an attachment disorder - divorce is pushing that abandonment button, even if they are the one that wants it.

Consult with a few attorneys who will tell you the laws in your state.  Most states have financial formulas.  Be rational and willing to understand risk/reward - for example, is a 2K washer/dryer worth the extra 3K in attorney fees to fight it. 

Hang in there,

SB

[casper324]

My mood is very sarcastic right about now so my opening line is... .

Are you kidding, divorcing a BPB/NPD is not going to be an easy process or cheap one.    I really wanted a head banging wall smiley oh well... .

Reason for my sarcasm?  Just got my attorneys bill for last month.  Due to my darling STBex's  wonderful behavior and needing to engage his attorney, which to do so I have to engage my attorney so it costs me,  for matters that need to be handled (sale of house, listing of another) I blew through my 4G retainer and haven't even stepped foot in court. 

Its a vacuum  that   sucks  just about everything left in me  right out of me. 

On the bright side your ex has to be smart to be a Phd, hopefully she uses that intelligence to see her way clearly through this process vs using it to get the most out of you she can. 

Forever Dad, are those notes a sticky somewhere?  They are wonderful. I read  resources on this site which are wonderful but I don't remember it and it should be added as a resource piece. 

[ogopogodude]

mediation is only possible if both parties are of sound mind, ... .

A BPD person is NOT of sound mind, ... .

So 2 + 2 = 4 in mediation, ... . or more like 4 - 2 = 2

Not with BPD, ... . just sayin' ... .

In a BPD person's mind, ... this is how mediation works:  4 - 2 = everything is mine no matter what, ... . "and I still want and need to torment you for eternity as it is my God-given right to do so because you chose me to partner up with so you are screwed no matter what"... .

[thisyoungdad]

We did not try mediation at all, my ex was completely unwilling. Instead she choose to go through the collaborative process and me, hoping we could get back together because I didn't even know what I was dealing with, went with it. In the end, despite it being incredibly difficult and frustrating I am kind of glad we did it this way. It was not always civil but more so than had we done litigation and I think that ultimately protected my daughter.

I have had to accept that many things we didn't agree to despite having it to be called that simply because there is no way to negotiate with someone who has BPD. So I had to really decide which battles mattered to me. Perfect example is that my ex just informed me she "didn't realize" that she is taking our daughter out of state on her residential time which is 5 days. We do a 5-5-2-2 split and it works okay. Well that time happens to be my birthday which in our parenting plan I get my daughter. So my attorneys advice was instead of forcing her to cancel the plans, try to negotiate extra time with my daughter instead when we met with the parenting coordinator. I tried, and the ex started crying and refused to negotiate. I am taking my daughter out of state to visit my family some of which for the first time and we are flying back on my residential day but the residential switch is supposed to be that evening. Well since we get back super late, my ex said she will count that as my "extra" time and not only will she not give me any more time but now she demanded that SHE gets an extra day! So she got her extra day alright. Even the parenting coordinator was like "he is traveling for 10 hours with a 3 year old that is hardly fun and should not even count" but my ex was pulling all the stops. And after talking to my attorney we agreed this is one best not to fight since soon enough another one will be right here.

So a lot of B.S like that and if you can accept that and deal with it then go ahead and try it. I am amazed we made it through and I can mostly live with what came of it.

I also have spent insane amounts more than her on attorneys fee's... . easily blowing through my retainer some months. I have spent easily 30K probably. Court though would have been costlier. No easy answer.

[Cimbaruns]

Thank you all for your input... .

Sounds like prepare for the worst hope for the best type of situation.

Believe me I know better than to expect anything but bad behavior on her part... .

It is what it is so I have to forge ahead... . because the final outcome will be what I wish for... . and that is to be finally down and off this "ride" once and for all

I ll keep u posted

[david]

I found that you have to pick which battles matter and which don't.

Another thing, before everything is finalized keep thinking about what works best. My ex loves to fight about most everything. I had it put in our court order that all changes to custody are done through email. Both parties must agree in an email. No changes are allowed unless both parties agree in another email. Ex didn't realize the implications of that and has tried many times, unsuccessfully, to change that part of the order. It eliminates arguing and it finalizes things before they occur. My ex changes her mind after agreeing and continues to engage through emails. I either answer once with "our agreement is ... . " or I don't reply at all.

There have been some instances when ex called me and left a voicemail offering me more time. I reply with an email stating the voicemail contents and my agreement.

We went to mediation once early on. Went round and round for several hours. We had a court hearing the next day and ex was refusing to follow the court order. Finally, I stood up and said I am leaving and will see you tomorrow. The next day ex had everything figured out exactly the way the court order was and it was done in 20 minutes. I didn't have a lawyer because I didn't need one. We had a court order already that spelled everything out clearly.

[sfbayjed]

Also, you need to be prepared. If it is a private confidential mediation and you come to an agreement after much effort and you do not sign something right then and there, your disordered former spouse will more than   likely changer their mind and back out of the agreement within a day or two.

I think the consensus here has been that, more often than not, mediation is a waste of time and resources for anything other than satisfying the court requirement   

[ForeverDad]

What worked for one member may not work the same for everyone else.  It's because, despite the many common patterns of behaviors and overreactions, not every person behaves the same or responds the same.  Be prepared for a variety of actions and reactions.

[letmeout]

Mediation with my exBPDh was a nightmare.

My ex did not act rationally during the entire process. His lies drove everyone crazy and he slandered all parties involved; even my attorney threatened to sue him. In the end, the judge forced him to apologize to the court, my attorney and mediator for acting crazy as a loon. He wasn't told to apologize to me though.

Then, at everyone's insistence just to get it finished to get rid of him, I had to agree to an extremely unfair distribution of 35 yrs of marital assets.  Then again, getting him out of my life... . priceless.

[Cimbaruns]

ForeverDad

Completely true... . what may work for one... may not work for another

I am preparing for bumps along the way

I will say that being away from this r/s has grounded me a bit. As we all know... . living in this sort of environment causes so much chaos and uncertainty that one sometimes acts impulsively. The ability to see things more clearly and to "be" with my own feelings has allowed me to make better decisions going forward... . and although the process in and of itself may be chaotic and unsettling ... it allows me to walk the walk more steadily.

I wish all here... . strength... . going forward in their own journey toward closure