I don't want to say "no".

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I don't want to say "no".  But I know things won't change unless I start telling her "no".  And she will get upset.  And she will say mean things in return.  There may be ways to lessen the impact of some of it, but inevitably she's going to be upset.  And I know I can't just keep moving forward the way things are.

"NO", I will not marry you until you are more stable.

"NO", I will not have a baby with you until you are more stable.

While I have hinted at both, I've never assertively told her either.  But I want to tell her in a time and way that makes it not sound hopeless, and that I am willing to stay with her while she works at being more stable.

I hate being in this position.  It's not a healthy relationship.  The reality is, the pwBPD is going to walk all over us and invade every bit of our lives unless we stand up and say "no".  It's not fair.  The burden is all on us. 

[maxsterling]

I don't want to say "no".  But I know things won't change unless I start telling her "no".  And she will get upset.  And she will say mean things in return.  There may be ways to lessen the impact of some of it, but inevitably she's going to be upset.  And I know I can't just keep moving forward the way things are.

"NO", I will not marry you until you are more stable.

"NO", I will not have a baby with you until you are more stable.

While I have hinted at both, I've never assertively told her either.  But I want to tell her in a time and way that makes it not sound hopeless, and that I am willing to stay with her while she works at being more stable.

I hate being in this position.  It's not a healthy relationship.  The reality is, the pwBPD is going to walk all over us and invade every bit of our lives unless we stand up and say "no".  It's not fair.  The burden is all on us. 

[Love Is Not Enough]

I am right there with you. At least you give conditions if things improve. I refuse to marry to protect myself financially and I have never wanted to have my own child. She knows this and so far has not pressed the issue. I'm sure one day it will come up. Especially a baby, which she only jokes about now. So I will probably be asking you for advice in the future!

I know how hard it is to talk about issues like this. A book that has helped me is "Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway". It is kind of a corny self help book, but it helps you look at things in a new way.  Kind of a logical road map to displace fear and push you along to do things you are holding back on. Also deals with anxiety, the precursor to fear. You can get a used copy for cheap. Check it out if you have time. Just make sure you practice the lessons. You will definitely want to use SET at least. I know you can do it! 

[Pearl55]

Maxterling

I have attended pattern changing workshop. It's really helpful, the first thing I've learnt is you've got to stop playing the role of god. Start looking after yourself and put yourself first. Bpd relationships won't go anywhere, it's a futile exercise.

[Cipher13]

maxsterling

I to am right there. Its feels like they ahve taken the option of saying "no" away or made so difficult that it becomes do dreaded that you stop considering it as a real option you are entitled to. I read a book that was I think written back in the  late 70s early 80s I thinsk was called "How to say NO with feeling bad about it" or something to that effect. I struggle with this. My uBPDw wants to adopt but I have said we are not ready. We are not stable enough. We move almost once a year.

the first thing I've learnt is you've got to stop playing the role of god. Start looking after yourself and put yourself first. Bpd relationships won't go anywhere, it's a futile exercise.

I agree with this. I am by nature a pleaser and a fixer. I always want o make it alright for the other person. I tent to ignore my own needs in the process. I have attempted to play th god role. Now I know I can't, I shouldn't, and I am trying not to my wife wants me to got back to that becasue I catered to her in every emotional way. Taking away alot of her personal responsibilty and feeding the BPD. I also found tryign to put myself first is not easy. Especially when the BPDer is fight soe hard to prevent it also.

[maxsterling]

Bpd relationships won't go anywhere, it's a futile exercise.

While you are probably right, I have a hard time feeling this hopeless.  Or feeling this hopeless for her.  I'm just too optimistic of a person.  But I imagine all her failed relationships before me followed the same pattern until the guy decided it was hopeless and moved on.  Everyone tells me it's hopeless.  My friends, my therapist, her family basically says the same without saying it.  I think the best way to look at it is from he standpoint of what "hope" means in regards to what is possible, and relate that to my wants and needs from a relationship.

Cipher:  I have that book from the library.  It's helping me see thing differently.

Interestingly, in couples therapy yesterday, she started off on the subject of money, and said I need to say "No" to her more.  She says I have weak boundaries.  ?  So, it's my fault I guess for having weak boundaries, and not her fault for crossing those boundaries, or for asking me for things that she knows are difficult to provide.  I responded by saying that it's difficult to say know when the asker is someone you love who is constantly claiming of crisis and making threats against herself. I told her that most of the time I am so worried about her hurting herself that's it's hard to enforce boundaries or say "no" during those times.  She responded by saying that I am now blaming my issues on her mental illness and that she hasn't tried to hurt herself or kill herself in a long time.  At that point, I broke down in tears and reminded her that just the day before I saw her hitting her head and pulling her hair and throwing something across the room.  I explained that before I saw her scratch her skin off her arm and watched her try and open the car door as I was driving.  I explained I have nightmares about her killing herself, and worry about this constantly and that despite my best effort, these natural protective emotions make communication difficult,  and that even small actions or words and I flash bask to those more serious episodes and then I feel a panic.  The therapist asked a few more questions, and tired to explain to my GF that I am showing I have a lot of emotion over this.  My GF broke down and reiterated she would never kill herself because she would not want to hurt me.  I told her when she says that, it feels like the burden of her life is on me, and that I would want her to not kill herself because she wants to live, not because she doesn't want to hurt me. 

I thought something good came out.  My GF I think understood.  She cried, and afterwards we had a good evening.  But this morning, as I was preparing to go to work, she woke up late, then made an "I don't understand why didn't you wake me up" comment.  Here we go again.  I was about out the door, so no time to explain "It's not my job to wake you up".   She came over and hugged me without apologizing, but I think she knows in hindsight that comment was hurtful.

[Pearl55]

"This challenge is invigorating, because it feeds your narcissism; you actually believe that you can fix someone else, like you've fixed yourself--in order to be accepted or feel a sense of belonging. Your obsession to repair this lover, is directly associated with cravings for affection and positive mirroring, from your parents. The trouble is, you have unwittingly selected the same type of person who raised you, to meet these needs--and there's no cheese at the end of that tunnel.

Consider this; if you're willing to embrace the darker aspects in another, and love them in spite of those--why won't you do the same for yourself? Once you get stronger at this, you'll have a much healthier relationship with You--and stop needing others to hold/express the emotions you don't want! You'll also begin letting go of your passive aggression."

Shari sheiber

[Pearl55]

Cipher

Does your wife want to adopt a child?

[Cipher13]

Cipher

Does your wife want to adopt a child?

We have started the process before years ago but found it too expensive. Plus she started showing increased warning signs that somethig was off. For so long I assumed it was me. Then when we were looking into Ethipoia as a possible counctry for adoption after a period of time she seemed to be dropping a lot of racial comments that she didn't use to before. She has gotten worse since then regarding this to. We have never been stable in our living environment. Having moved around almost religiously 1 time per year that to me is not a stable home for a child. Thats minor compared to the other issues.