got restraining order today-next steps?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So this morning my uBPDh was arrested after he physically took my phone away last night when i said I would call the police (he was raging at me and blocking me from leaving the room).  I managed to sneak an email to the DV unit at our local PD, and this morning detectives came and arrested him.  I saw him in court today before his arraignment for the judge to rule on the restraining order -- the judge granted it after yelling at him to stop looking at me and shaking his head, and to get the smirk off his face, then reading the complaint and my affidavit.  I had so much support from the victim advocate and the DA and even one of the officers who had been there in the morning. 

So now I am in need of practical advice. We're still married but I'm worried that he will take all the money out of anything joint.  I have just called the bank and opened a new bank account and will be removing half of the $$ from our joint accounts.  What should I do about credit cards?   I also got a lawyer referral but haven't had a chance to consult with him yet. 

[AnitaL]

So this morning my uBPDh was arrested after he physically took my phone away last night when i said I would call the police (he was raging at me and blocking me from leaving the room).  I managed to sneak an email to the DV unit at our local PD, and this morning detectives came and arrested him.  I saw him in court today before his arraignment for the judge to rule on the restraining order -- the judge granted it after yelling at him to stop looking at me and shaking his head, and to get the smirk off his face, then reading the complaint and my affidavit.  I had so much support from the victim advocate and the DA and even one of the officers who had been there in the morning. 

So now I am in need of practical advice. We're still married but I'm worried that he will take all the money out of anything joint.  I have just called the bank and opened a new bank account and will be removing half of the $$ from our joint accounts.  What should I do about credit cards?   I also got a lawyer referral but haven't had a chance to consult with him yet. 

[livednlearned]

So this morning my uBPDh was arrested after he physically took my phone away last night when i said I would call the police (he was raging at me and blocking me from leaving the room).  I managed to sneak an email to the DV unit at our local PD, and this morning detectives came and arrested him.  I saw him in court today before his arraignment for the judge to rule on the restraining order -- the judge granted it after yelling at him to stop looking at me and shaking his head, and to get the smirk off his face, then reading the complaint and my affidavit.  I had so much support from the victim advocate and the DA and even one of the officers who had been there in the morning. 

So now I am in need of practical advice. We're still married but I'm worried that he will take all the money out of anything joint.  I have just called the bank and opened a new bank account and will be removing half of the $$ from our joint accounts.  What should I do about credit cards?   I also got a lawyer referral but haven't had a chance to consult with him yet. 

Hi AnitaL,

I just saw your post and wanted to give you a 

I have to head out and offline in a few minutes so can't write a longer post, but there's lots I want to share. I'll write tomorrow when I have more time. A few quick things -- make sure police are present when your H comes, not just a friend. It's safer that way.

An excellent book to read to help you make sense of male DV is Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. It helps to learn how pervasive the abuse was so you can start detaching in a healthy way.

Also, good thinking with the joint account. With your credit cards, put a stop on any spending if you can. You can't close them if there is debt but you can stop him from driving up any debt. Also, try to untangle your phone from his if they are on the same account. He will try to see who you are calling. If you have a smart phone, there's a chance he could put Google latitude on it and track you. Mine did.

More soon. Just wanted you to know you're not alone.



LnL

[ForeverDad]

Don't let anyone guilt you for protecting yourself or your finances.  Even if you took a little more than half it's doubtful there would be major consequences.  So if you need a little extra to get by until things settle down a bit, probably no big deal.  Usually it is at the end of a divorce when the two sides figure out who owes what to whom in a settlement or the judge decides.  The little bit extra now would be a minor issue by then.  We say equal because we don't want to have anyone claim we were abusive of the other.  We're not, but we do try to avoid giving the other spouse any ammunition for exaggerated claims and allegations.

Credit cards... . primarily it depends upon the type of account... .

1. Joint accounts - Both of you can charge on them and it may be difficult to suspend or close them since one of you could call to say close it and the other could call next and say to reactivate it.  Many card card companies may resist closing an account until it is paid off.  So it all depends on whether you want it to stay open (you need to use it) or you want it to be closed (you don't want him to make huge charges and stick you with the debt).

2. He is account owner and you are card holder - He can call the company and ask that your card be suspended or cancelled.

3. You are account owner and he is card holder - You can call the company and ask that his card be suspended or cancelled.

F.O.G. = Fear, Obligation, Guilt   <-- some or all three will apply to you!

Another concern now is that he may "guilt" you into relaxing the restraining order.  Our experience says No!  Someone who is willing to rage like that will not truly change in a few days or weeks no matter how much he or she protects otherwise:

  Recovery is a process, not an event and especially not a promise.

  Positive change is a path, not an event and especially not a promise.

If it has gotten this bad, accept that it will happen again if you let your spouse back into your life (too quickly if ever).  Well, unless your spouse accepts responsibility, gets into effective therapy and truly applies it in his thinking, perceptions, behaviors and entire life.  Hard to predict whether that would happen or not, however the odds are probably against it so for now don't count on it.  Even then it could take many months and probably years to know whether it's real change for the better or just a "mask of seeming normalcy" that will crumble once things are back to the spouse's level of comfort (and your discomfort).

Remember, there are no 'quick fixes'.  You've just been threatened!  (I doubt it was the first time, right?)  That is hugely serious, a line that should never have been crossed.  There are core issues with spouse's balance, perceptions, cognition, anger and self control.  If there is some change for the better, it will take a long, long time to prove it will stick and whether it is enough.

The court is the real authority.  Accept the distance and relief the court has ordered.  Use that time wisely to determine your options and decide where your path leads you to a better life.

[AnitaL]

Thank you so much for the helpful advice so far.  I am busy checking on accounts and taking screenshots, etc. before he comes to pick up his things tomorrow (escorted by a police officer).  my kids and i will be out of the house but my father will be here when they come.  i've put out some of his important stuff but am nervous i'm forgetting something he might try to take as a way to get at me.  It'll be tough to sleep tonight -- I know he's at a motel down the road as I saw the charge on the credit card.  It makes me nervous we'll run into him.  Our main credit card is my account with him as cardholder, plus there is no balance on the card and he is not a spendy type, so I hope that will be ok.  Tomorrow I definitely need to speak to or at least get an appt with a lawyer to decide next steps. 

[ForeverDad]

If he has his own credit account(s) then feel free to cancel his card or at the very least monitor it daily until you do cancel it.  If he's using it, then I'd think you could take that much more out of the joint bank account to be sure your bills get paid so you don't suffer unfair added financial pain.

Remember too that you're caring for the children.  Will he pay toward support?  Likely that hasn't even be discussed yet.  For that reason alone - the children's needs and expenses - you probably would be justified to take extra to cover their expenses since you don't know what he will or won't reimburse.

Do you both work?

What is the biggest risk?  That you let him back, let the order lapse or even ask the court to end it.  If you want the court to not treat your problems seriously then just become known as repeat petitioners.  If you don't know enough to stay apart then the professionals won't be very anxious to go out of their way to help you over and over.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for marriage - just healthy, safe and trusting marriage.

[livednlearned]

Hi AnitaL,

Do you have a good safety plan in place after your H collects his things? Was he ever physical with you before this last incident?

You're doing a lot of really smart things, focusing on your financial security, and that's really important. And I'm glad your dad will be there when your H is picking up his stuff, and you'll be somewhere else, plus a police officer supervising.

Do you have support for yourself right now? A therapist or group of friends?

How can we help you with the next steps? Do you have a list of questions for a L? It can be really overwhelming at first. One book that many of us read going through this is Splitting: Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. It's a must read, the manual for what to expect. Here's a link on bpdfamily: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=47078.0

How are you doing right now? How are the kids?

[AnitaL]

So my H came to get his belongings today and according to my dad who was at the house, it went reasonably well.  He was calm though clearly distraught, especially in asking my dad if he could take a few photos of the kids with him.   He also left me my engagement ring which he had requested back from me a few days ago.   My MIL also called to tell me that she talked to him and that he did not express anger at me, just humiliation and sadness and a general lack of understanding that this is about more than the last incident that triggered his arrest.  It does make me breathe a bit easier that he did not immediately go out and start draining bank accounts or otherwise react angrily, though I know that things could change any day. Thanks for the reality check, ForeverDad.  I know I need some time and space to think this through and I know any real improvement will take a long time and deep commitment, and I do not have any reason to believe he will do this.

Hi AnitaL,

Do you have a good safety plan in place after your H collects his things? Was he ever physical with you before this last incident?

You're doing a lot of really smart things, focusing on your financial security, and that's really important. And I'm glad your dad will be there when your H is picking up his stuff, and you'll be somewhere else, plus a police officer supervising.

Do you have support for yourself right now? A therapist or group of friends?

This was the only time he was physical with me.  All the previous behavior was verbal, though he threatened me a couple of times.  I don't believe he was out to hurt me physically even this last time -- I think he was just desperate to get the phone away from me so I wouldn't report his behavior to the police or anyone else.  I think he knew what he was doing was way wrong but he was totally out of control.  But he was masterful at emotional abuse and making me feel afraid, and that is what mattered to the judge more than my lack of bruises.  So I honestly don't think he is likely to violate the order or try to hurt me.  That said, I have at least three places where I can safely go with the kids if need be, including my parents, sister, and a work colleague.  My colleague has also gone out of her way to find out that I can even use sick leave at work to take up to 15 days to go to appointments or otherwise take care of myself, and I now have several referrals for lawyers who specialize in high conflict custody cases.  I am getting tremendous support, but I recognize I also should probably see a therapist for myself.  Right now I'm feeling really exhausted and just want to rest... . but I can't because I have to make arrangements for the kids' to get to/from school next week on my work days (we used to split those duties because my H didn't work). 

 

How can we help you with the next steps? Do you have a list of questions for a L? It can be really overwhelming at first. One book that many of us read going through this is Splitting: Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. It's a must read, the manual for what to expect. Here's a link on bpdfamily: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=47078.0

How are you doing right now? How are the kids?

Thanks, I will get the book.  I also found a list of q's for a lawyer on the WomensLaw.org site. 

I am considering trying to propose a separation agreement as a first step.  I want him to be able to see the kids again (D5, D3, and 10 month old son)-- maybe in a few weeks, with supervised visits?  I'm not sure how to talk to them about this or how much to tell them.  They love him so much and he loves them, and I don't want to punish the kids by keeping my H away from them for too long.  I am also confused about some logistical things, like how I should deal with his mail, or how I will know whether he's taking steps to get help, if the restraining order permits no contact?  I feel like I would like to at least be able to email with him (so everything is in writing and I don't have to respond right away or at all).  Do I need a lawyer just to make decisions like this?  I'm not sure I'm ready to file for divorce and am not convinced he would make this a high conflict situation, but I want to be prepared just in case.  I'm assuming I will need to go to probate court to make any kind of arrangement that involves changing the restraining order conditions.

The kids and I are alright so far with so much family support, but I am very tired.  I wish I could take a break from thinking about all this... .

[livednlearned]

The kinds of questions you're asking are pretty common for DV situations. Do you have a good DV center in your area where you can go (or call)? You can save yourself some money by asking there first. I have found that the services are hit and miss. There seem to be lots of very young, well-intentioned women who hadn't been through this who volunteer. But there are also a lot of very seasoned supervisors and women who know exactly what's going on, sometimes more than even we understand ourselves.

But one thing I will say -- if you get back together with your H, everyone begins to lose confidence in you. It's one of those heartbreaking things for DV advocates, and they get very burned out. They want to believe in you, and know that you are ending the cycle of abuse, not just for you, but for your kids. Same with judges and lawyers. If you file an RO and plan to separate, then make those boundaries very strong. Doesn't mean you can't come to some kind of agreement with your H down the line, but for now, these boundaries are very healthy.

It might help to tell yourself, "I will do this for a year. In a year, I will regroup and think through these questions: Do I want to stay married? If he does get treatment, I will do xyz. If he goes to treatment but his behavior does not change, I will do abc."

We don't tend to be people who are great at boundaries, so it's helpful to start thinking like someone who has boundaries, and practicing. Don't focus on your H for a year, focus on you, and use boundaries to help you take care of yourself and your kid. If you think it makes sense to make a big decision in a year about your marriage, wait until you've had some significant time to figure out how you feel. You're going to change and grow in the year ahead, more than you can imagine. You'll be a different, stronger you in 12 months, and things will look very different.

[ForeverDad]

But one thing I will say -- if you get back together with your H, everyone begins to lose confidence in you... . If you file an RO and plan to separate, then make those boundaries very strong. Doesn't mean you can't come to some kind of agreement with your H down the line, but for now, these boundaries are very healthy.

It might help to tell yourself, "I will do this for a year. In a year, I will regroup and think through these questions: Do I want to stay married? If he does get treatment, I will do xyz. If he goes to treatment but his behavior does not change, I will do abc."

Yes, this is what I meant when I wrote that we don't want you to become a "repeat petitioner".  Odds are that if you weaken your boundaries of required proper behavior then the cycle will resume and it will happen again and again.

We don't tend to be people who are great at boundaries, so it's helpful to start thinking like someone who has boundaries, and practicing. Don't focus on your H for a year, focus on you, and use boundaries to help you take care of yourself and your kid.

Why do so many arrive here with such weak boundaries?  It's possible that the proportions here are so high because those with better boundaries noticed the red flags and skedaddled quickly and didn't hang around long enough to be long term targets or victims.  We were the nice people who were too agreeable, too compliant or perhaps just too full of hope for change.  Also, it started off good or at least okay.  Instead of getting better it got worse.

Be aware that BPD is a disorder affecting most those closest to the person.  The closer you are, the more impactful the triggers and behaviors.  So while you are apart it may appear he's improved.  It's very likely that's not an indication of recovery, it's the Distance Effect.  If you get back together (too soon) then you two risk falling back into the prior cycles and patterns.

It sounds like his parents are reasonable people?  They haven't sided overmuch with their son?  Then if you're pondering supervised visitation, they may be able to help out.  In time maybe day visits would be appropriate.  (Usually poor behaviors can be avoided better with shorter visits.)  But don't feel guilted or obligated* to relax your vigilance too soon or against your better judgment.  His behaviors toward you could very well transfer to them in time, especially if you're not within easy reach as before.

* FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

[catnap]

". . .the judge granted it after yelling at him to stop looking at me and shaking his head, and to get the smirk off his face. . ."

Have you considered changing locks on the house?  If you have an alarm system, changing codes? 

[AnitaL]

I did speak with my landlady yesterday and she is having the locks changed.  I appreciate the concern and warnings, and will be posting again soon I'm sure.  In the meantime I am going to focus on finding childcare help and finding a lawyer and a therapist for myself.

[livednlearned]

I did speak with my landlady yesterday and she is having the locks changed.  I appreciate the concern and warnings, and will be posting again soon I'm sure.  In the meantime I am going to focus on finding childcare help and finding a lawyer and a therapist for myself.

It's a hard time, very stressful. But it does get better. Much better.

You have a lot to concentrate on right now, so let people take care of you and ask for help when you need it. A lot of people here tend to have a hard time asking for help. You really need your strength for what's taking place. I wish I knew then what I've learned now so I didn't get so worn down, like inviting people in to care for me. But I felt too hurt and ashamed and defaulted to being superwoman. Lost a troubling amount of weight from the stress alone. 

[AnitaL]

Thank you, livednlearned, I'm trying to work on exactly this.  Defaulting to being superwoman just about captures my own tendency, so I'm fighting to let others in to help.     

[livednlearned]

Thank you, livednlearned, I'm trying to work on exactly this.  :)efaulting to being superwoman just about captures my own tendency, so I'm fighting to let others in to help.    

I also learned that it makes people feel good when you let them help you  

[AnitaL]

It sounds like his parents are reasonable people?  They haven't sided overmuch with their son?  Then if you're pondering supervised visitation, they may be able to help out.  In time maybe day visits would be appropriate.  (Usually poor behaviors can be avoided better with shorter visits.)  But don't feel guilted or obligated* to relax your vigilance too soon or against your better judgment.  His behaviors toward you could very well transfer to them in time, especially if you're not within easy reach as before.

* FOG - Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

The problem is his parents live 3000 miles away.  In the meantime, I don't feel right about preventing the kids from seeing him, but I also do not know what I will tell them if/when he is allowed visitation.  Right now the kids think daddy went on a trip because he was not well and we are not sure how long he will be gone.  He has gone on multi-week solo trips before, so I think this will suffice for now, but what about the longer term?  I am also worried they (& I) will see him in town, since he is staying about 1/2 mile away and we walk most places for errands.  I know the place he's staying because of the credit card charges, and it's around the corner from his therapist.  I can only hope he's continuing to see her and face the reality of what has happened.  At the same time, I desperately wish he would leave town... .

[livednlearned]

I am also worried they (& I) will see him in town, since he is staying about 1/2 mile away and we walk most places for errands.  I know the place he's staying because of the credit card charges, and it's around the corner from his therapist.  I can only hope he's continuing to see her and face the reality of what has happened.  At the same time, I desperately wish he would leave town... .

I only have one child, so it was a little easier to have this conversation, but others here (Matt, I think) have recommended talking to the oldest first, explaining it age approrpriate ways, and then the next oldest, etc.

Kids know what is going on, even if they don't know the details, and they can handle the truth in age appropriate ways. Telling them that your H is on a trip is an understandable way to respond given everything you're going through, and the stress of working things out in your own heart and head. But this is also a really big learning moment for your kids. Could you say to your oldest, ":)addy got mad at me in a way that is not appropriate. He was not using his words like you are learning to do. I didn't like how he dealt with his temper so he is having a time out right now. He lives in a different place and is taking time to think about his actions. Your job right now is to be a kid and my job is to keep loving you and I'm going to keep doing that."

Something like that, but better. Maybe not as overtly comparing their behavior and his -- altho I think it depends on your child's temperament. I presented it as, "My job is to keep us safe, and I don't feel I can do that anymore in our home." It wasn't a secret that his dad raged at us, so there was no point in pretending otherwise. He needed to know that someone was going to stand up to his dad and put an end to the abuse. I just told him matter-of-factly and he was relieved.

For a while, he was pretty concerned about his dad being lonely. He said it a few times, and then one day we were walking into our apartment after having a fun afternoon with friends, and he said, "I sometimes feel bad for daddy because he's alone in his house all by himself." And before I could even think, I said, "He should have thought about that when he was being mean to us." That went right to S12's heart, I could see it on his face. He was surprised at my candidness, and I think it was relief to him to hear it expressed in such clear terms.

What is true for your ex is true for your children. They cannot act in aggressive and abusive ways and no one should be allowed to act that way toward them. You are modeling something profoundly assertive for them so pointing it out will help them see that this somewhat confusing thing is very solid. It's a boundary. You are being assertive, and showing them what it looks like. I did the same and my son, who was becoming a target for bullies in elementary, found his backbone in middle school. There's still work to do and he still struggles, but he is a thousand times stronger. There is no question in my mind that he was able to get there for himself because I showed him how.

You're kids are fortunate that you taught them this lesson so young.

[AnitaL]

I only have one child, so it was a little easier to have this conversation, but others here (Matt, I think) have recommended talking to the oldest first, explaining it age approrpriate ways, and then the next oldest, etc.

Kids know what is going on, even if they don't know the details, and they can handle the truth in age appropriate ways. Telling them that your H is on a trip is an understandable way to respond given everything you're going through, and the stress of working things out in your own heart and head. But this is also a really big learning moment for your kids. Could you say to your oldest, ":)addy got mad at me in a way that is not appropriate. He was not using his words like you are learning to do. I didn't like how he dealt with his temper so he is having a time out right now. He lives in a different place and is taking time to think about his actions. Your job right now is to be a kid and my job is to keep loving you and I'm going to keep doing that."

Something like that, but better. Maybe not as overtly comparing their behavior and his -- altho I think it depends on your child's temperament. I presented it as, "My job is to keep us safe, and I don't feel I can do that anymore in our home." It wasn't a secret that his dad raged at us, so there was no point in pretending otherwise. He needed to know that someone was going to stand up to his dad and put an end to the abuse. I just told him matter-of-factly and he was relieved.

This is where I am having a hard time, because he never really raged "at us".  Though the girls (D3, D5) did occasionally witness him being angry and frustrated, it was rare enough that I don't think it even registered with them.  He was emotionally abusive to me regularly (usually after the kids were in school or asleep), but he has always been an amazing father, very involved and very loving.  I know that I need distance from him to figure out what I want to do (separation, divorce?) but I still feel that for the kids' sake they should not be removed from him entirely.  The "on a trip" story is good for about another week and then I will need to explain further, at least to D5 and probably D3 too, but I am just not sure I am comfortable with telling them about him behaving badly toward me.  I definitely need to think more about this. 

[livednlearned]

I am just not sure I am comfortable with telling them about him behaving badly toward me.  I definitely need to think more about this. 

Some people manage to get through this stuff without a therapist, but I wasn't one of them. There is some kind of enmeshment that happens that makes it difficult to see these relationships clearly. Getting distance helps. Time apart helps. But the psychological and emotional complexity is really tricky to see without a skilled outside third party. Same thing with how child psychologists see these situations.

Would you be willing to talk to a child psychologist, someone to help give you perspective about what to say to the girls?

[AnitaL]

Would you be willing to talk to a child psychologist, someone to help give you perspective about what to say to the girls?

Yes, definitely.  I know this is what I need to do.  NOw I just need to find one... . and I don't even have one for myself yet either.  I need more hours in my day... . wish I could stop the world for awhile to give me a chance to breathe and catch up.

[ForeverDad]

This is where I am having a hard time, because he never really raged "at us".  Though the girls (D3, D5) did occasionally witness him being angry and frustrated, it was rare enough that I don't think it even registered with them.  He was emotionally abusive to me regularly (usually after the kids were in school or asleep), but he has always been an amazing father, very involved and very loving.  I know that I need distance from him to figure out what I want to do (separation, divorce?) but I still feel that for the kids' sake they should not be removed from him entirely.  The "on a trip" story is good for about another week and then I will need to explain further, at least to D5 and probably D3 too, but I am just not sure I am comfortable with telling them about him behaving badly toward me.  I definitely need to think more about this.

You do need some expert counseling, either with the DV resources or a counselor.  Why?  You're guilting yourself, potentially weakening your situation.  I'm not saying your concerns are wrong, no, I'm talking about the RO aspect.  Do you have an upcoming hearing to decide the various terms and conditions?  If he has a lawyer then that lawyer would probably try to back you into a corner where you say you're not fearful of him or fearful of him with the children.  Then, as I've heard, your spouse's lawyer could turn to the judge and say, "AL is inconsistent, she can't be both fearful and not fearful, I motion the case be dismissed."

Do you have a lawyer, DV counselor or other resource who is experienced in DV cases and how to advise you on what to say, how to say it and what not to say?

However, it is possible for you to have an RO but the kids be dropped from it.  Do you want them included in your RO?  Or included but with certain conditions to ensure they're not at higher than minimal risk?  Perhaps shorter visits?  Or supervised in some way?  Ponder what you can live with and not distress you.  In my area it is only domestic or family court (separation or divorce case) that handles the parenting restrictions if they were involved only peripherally.

[livednlearned]

This is a really tough time, AL. The hardest, when you're separating and trying to shift abruptly to a single -parent household. Big hug to you    It's hard.

I was thinking about what you wrote about your H and not raging. It's true that raging is a sign of big issues. But so are other qualities, and those can be harder to notice when the kids are young, especially when the BPD sufferer is male. Your H may be great with his girls, but he may not remain stable and steady with them as they start to individuate and become more independent. It is confusing to have a parent who responds to normal developmental changes and child-appropriate behaviors as though he himself were a child. He may not be raging at them, but BPD parents struggle with emotional regulation, and that makes them very tricky parents whether they are being abusive or not.

When my son was young, N/BPDx was a decent father, but he was always a little off. Responding in inappropriate ways as though he could not quite connect with S12 in a age-relevant manner. It got worse as he got older. The problems manifested the worst in 3rd grade when it became clear that S12 had almost no healthy coping skills to deal with difficult feelings. And school can be one long day of difficult feelings for kids who have challenging homes.

Your definition of abuse is likely much more tolerant now than it will be once you begin working with a therapist and develop a more nuanced sense of what it means for your girls to develop healthy skills. Doesn't mean that your H won't be in their lives, it just means that you might have to parent them in a different way. There is time to figure that stuff out, but right now the focus is on the RO and figuring out what comes next. Like FD says, be careful about caving in because of guilt. You may lose the court's faith that you can see your H clearly. I guess what I'm trying to say is that things may change in terms of how your H connects with his girls, and that for now, it's a good idea to use the court's RO boundary to take stock of your situation and learn what to expect and how to negotiate the court system.

I find that I need twice the boundaries to help S12 in his relationship with his dad. His dad no longer rages at him, but the opposite is now happening and that makes it much trickier -- there is a lot of idealization going on, which is challenging in a different way. I'm glad, though, that there is a court boundary in place to help me. N/BPDx is a master obstructor and having a good court boundary makes it easier to protect S12 in areas where he needs it. Not just abuse, but other trickier things that tend to be in the parental alienation arena.

[ogopogodude]

In my situation, I had two restraining orders obtained.

The 1st one, I violated because she violated it by weasel'ing herself back into my life (by making false promises, blah blah blah). I gave her the benefit of the doubt (which is just plain stupid of me, trusting a BPD-afflicted person).

Thus, ... the first R.O. was deemed useless even though I eventually abided by it to the T.

Thus, a 2nd R.O. was established and I have not violated it not one bit. She has, ... putting items on my doorstep, writing love notes, grocery items, etc.

So, ... . what is the purpose of my post, here?

The title of this thread is" Got a R.O., ... now what?

Well, ... STICK to it. Do not ever violate it. If your sig. other violates it, ... this does not give you the right to violate it as well... .