Went to break up and it didn't happen

[btechpc]

I went to break it off with uBpdgf today. I went to her place giving her short notice that I was coming. She called me on my way there and flipped out at me, to which I responded to her informing her that I wasn't going to come down. She broke down instantly and started crying, saying she was sorry. When I got there she jumped on me, kissed me and told me what an amazing man I was. I told her I wanted to talk and she said needed to smoke a popper (weed) to calm her nerves first. I waited for her to return and she looked at me with her beautiful eyes and amazing smile when she walked into the room. I could just envision her crying and in tears when I was going to tell her that I was breaking it off. And then before I know it we are having amazing & degrading sex.

When we were done I felt terrible and chickened out. I felt like such an ass, like I used her for sex like all the other guys she said had done before me. I asked her if she loved me, she said yes. I asked her some vague questions about her spending on gifts and such. She lied right to my face about it. I then causally slipped in a question about her having sex with her teacher in high school (she changed her story about this before from having sex, to lying to me and not having sexy with him (just made it up to make her seem not square) to her answering that they had sex in his car twice). Inside I died when she said this as I felt confident about her past. I love so much about her. But I feel like she's mirroring what I have told her what I want, not what she truly is.

She seems very OCD about keeping a routine as well. Any change or wrinkle she gets very agitated.

Why do I keep falling into her snare, even when I know it's wrong and she's lying? Is it because my 'fixer' self is just hoping for the best? Will she ever admit to the truth? If she really loved me how can she lie?

What can I expect for her reaction when I tell her I've been looking into her spending habits and text messages? I'm really scared.

[Surnia]

When we were done I felt terrible and chickened out. I felt like such an ass,

This is really hard.

A very uncomfortable place to be.

Yes, perhaps you used her for sex - what about yourself? I mean, if I want to break with someone and instead of it I have sex, I would feel very bad toward myself. I would doubt my own will, my ability to say clearly NO, I would feel like I let me use for something.

I am a bit blunt her: I think its time to focus more on your side of the street. Are you really ready to end this relationship?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey btechpc, Are you snooping around your GF's spending habits and text messages in order to prove to yourself that she is untrustworthy?  Presumably you don't trust her anyway, which is why you are fishing to catch her in lies about an affair with a teacher?  I am unclear why you are gathering all this evidence, except to "build a case" against her?  I don't see where this is headed.  Are you planning to "prove" to her that she is dishonest?  That she has BPD?  If so, to what end?  If you are dissatisfied with your r/s, and that answer seems obvious, then presumably it is time to b/u rather than have a roll in the hay.  Maybe you need to spend some time just sitting with your feelings, in order to get clarity as to what you want to do next.  Why do you state that you are scared?  Of what?  Lucky Jim

[fromheeltoheal]

Do you trust her?  :)oes she treat you with respect?  Will a long term, monogamous, sustainable relationship marked by open, honest communication, mutual commitment and 50/50 work sharing be possible with this woman?

You probably already know the answers to those questions, but your resolve crumbles when faced with those eyes, that smile, that willing naked body.  Been there.  So you lost it once, how can you use that?  What do you need to do to follow through with your decision and not let her wiles influence you?  Abandonment is the worst thing that can happen to a borderline, so if she senses it she will turn on the sugar as bait, and so far it's working; what do you need to do differently?

Why do I keep falling into her snare, even when I know it's wrong and she's lying? Is it because my 'fixer' self is just hoping for the best? Will she ever admit to the truth? If she really loved me how can she lie?

Fear of abandonment is the core of the disorder, so a borderline will do whatever it takes to prevent it; that's her priority and main focus, so she mirrors you to become who she thinks you want.  It worked.  Then she throws in all the terrible things that have happened to her, and you may see some of her fck ups, and you launch into rescue mode and play fixer, a trait she saw in you from the beginning.  And then there's hope, hope that this thing you've poured your heart into is going to work, if you can just love her a little more, a little differently, something.  Anything.  Just be as awesome as you were in the beginning babe, be that girl I would die for.

Those things are why you keep 'falling into her snare'.

She 'loves' you in a very different way than you see love.  To her that 'love' is you completing her, not in a Valentines Day card sense, but in an unhealthy fusing of two psyches sense, where there is no boundary psychologically between you and her, you are one person, a replaying of what she's been looking for since infancy.  And to go with that, abandonment means death, like she will literally not exist, so she lies in an attempt to keep you, because she's convinced you won't stay, and if you knew the real her you would leave for sure; lying is the only option.  All of that is in her head and subconscious; it doesn't necessarily apply in reality and she's not aware of it either.

All of this is standard borderline; take what you need and leave the rest.

[seeking balance]

I went to break it off with uBpdgf today. I went to her place giving her short notice that I was coming. She called me on my way there and flipped out at me, to which I responded to her informing her that I wasn't going to come down. She broke down instantly and started crying, saying she was sorry. When I got there she jumped on me, kissed me and told me what an amazing man I was. I told her I wanted to talk and she said needed to smoke a popper (weed) to calm her nerves first. I waited for her to return and she looked at me with her beautiful eyes and amazing smile when she walked into the room. I could just envision her crying and in tears when I was going to tell her that I was breaking it off. And then before I know it we are having amazing & degrading sex.

When we were done I felt terrible and chickened out. I felt like such an ass, like I used her for sex like all the other guys she said had done before me. I asked her if she loved me, she said yes. I asked her some vague questions about her spending on gifts and such. She lied right to my face about it. I then causally slipped in a question about her having sex with her teacher in high school (she changed her story about this before from having sex, to lying to me and not having sexy with him (just made it up to make her seem not square) to her answering that they had sex in his car twice). Inside I died when she said this as I felt confident about her past. I love so much about her. But I feel like she's mirroring what I have told her what I want, not what she truly is.

She seems very OCD about keeping a routine as well. Any change or wrinkle she gets very agitated.

Why do I keep falling into her snare, even when I know it's wrong and she's lying? Is it because my 'fixer' self is just hoping for the best? Will she ever admit to the truth? If she really loved me how can she lie?

What can I expect for her reaction when I tell her I've been looking into her spending habits and text messages? I'm really scared.

Are you really sure you want to end this relationship?  If so, why do you need to confront her on her own spending habits - it really is not your business is it?

Maybe you would be best served on Undecided Board?

[Lucky Jim]

Wow, you put that really well, fromheeltoheal.  Great stuff, and so true.

btechpc, let us know your thoughts.

LJ

[btechpc]

fromheeltoheal, this is the most thought provoking and clear post I have read. It's makes so much sense to me in regards to how she thinks, she is constantly worried about me leaving so she feels better not telling me for fear of me being disapproving of her behaviour. This is much like my children. I've already come to the conclusion that this relationship will never be the same as non-BPD relationship.

In regards to your comment of 'take what you need, leave the rest' , I'm not 100% clear of this statement. Are you saying that I need to just look past what bothers me as I like the other pieces? Would this not be like using her?

On a side note I caught her in another lie today. She lied straight to my face again. It seems to be getting worse. Is this because she is more comfortable with me? I have so many trust issues it's killing me inside.

[myself]

The lies were the final straw for me. The trust is gone.

It doesn't matter how much you do, how much is ignored, how good the sex. If the other person isn't being honest, it's not real togetherness.

[Changingman]

Amazing heeltoheal,

Reality.


Myself, btechpc,

The lies and betrayals yes, I can't believe she lied about her self, about everything. The fighting for domination, the mess she left was amazing, I looked around me and I was living in a gutter. It gets much worst from where you are, you have no idea how bad it is, there is no way of fully knowing. Till the mask is dropped. Good luck

[btechpc]

I can only imagine how bad it would get. She was already convincing me that I couldn't be friends with any women because I was too flirty. Thank god for all your insights as I was literally about to move in with her, start a life together, kids, marriage... .   We were actually looking at houses to buy.

They are very much the best liar I have ever encountered. Almost like a chameleon, but in a social sense. I'm feel very scared about how she will react to my breaking it off with her. She is very vengeful and angry, has a mean side that is very very violent IMO. She says when she gets mad she actually enjoys listening to music about killing people (violent rap). I feel like I should drop them bomb and go straight to the courthouse to get a restraining order. She knows soo much about my schedule though, I worry about my kids.

Any strategies to shut down this obsessive and violent behaviour would be much appreciated.   

[fromheeltoheal]

fromheeltoheal, this is the most thought provoking and clear post I have read. It's makes so much sense to me in regards to how she thinks, she is constantly worried about me leaving so she feels better not telling me for fear of me being disapproving of her behaviour. This is much like my children. I've already come to the conclusion that this relationship will never be the same as non-BPD relationship.

Thanks man, I like it when my spew is helpful and clear; just the musings of someone else who's been through hell, and hindsight is 20/20.

In regards to your comment of 'take what you need, leave the rest' , I'm not 100% clear of this statement. Are you saying that I need to just look past what bothers me as I like the other pieces? Would this not be like using her?

No, I meant take what you need from my post and leave what you don't.  I don't know your gal and I'm no shrink, but the fact that you ended up here suggests she fits in the same mold as the rest of ours, at some level.  My experience and the subsequent education I got about BPD in general, fueled by pain and the need to understand, resulted in the viewpoint I shared; if it helps you, so much the better.

On a side note I caught her in another lie today. She lied straight to my face again. It seems to be getting worse. Is this because she is more comfortable with me? I have so many trust issues it's killing me inside.

It may be because she's less comfortable with you, desperate and flailing, because she senses you're about to bail.  There is no trust in either direction at the end of these relationships, and it can get very dangerous and ugly.  Act accordingly.

[Tausk]

Any strategies to shut down this obsessive and violent behaviour would be much appreciated.   

Who's behavior?  Yours or hers?    I can't figure it out what you are asking or what you want.

Do you want to break it off or do you want to figure out how to manage things so that you can still have sex?

And, the fact that you are thinking that you need to file a restraining order within a couple of days of your acceptance of her submitting herself to your desires seems... . hypocritical and f'ked up.

And it doesn't really matter, it's an issue between you and your gf, but my response in relation to the fact that protection of the children is the most important issue.  Is she a threat.  Is your behavior causing you to be a poor parent?  Is there neglect involved... . even at an emotional level?

Are you seeing a Therapist?  Perhaps that can help. 

I had to ask myself... . what did I want.  Did I want manageability? Did I want out?  Did I want freedom from the pain?  to let go?... . There are endless questions in the FOG, but until I knew the real question, I couldn't make an  honest decision.

I hope you find what you want.

[Waifed]

I can only imagine how bad it would get. She was already convincing me that I couldn't be friends with any women because I was too flirty. Thank god for all your insights as I was literally about to move in with her, start a life together, kids, marriage... .   We were actually looking at houses to buy.

They are very much the best liar I have ever encountered. Almost like a chameleon, but in a social sense. I'm feel very scared about how she will react to my breaking it off with her. She is very vengeful and angry, has a mean side that is very very violent IMO. She says when she gets mad she actually enjoys listening to music about killing people (violent rap). I feel like I should drop them bomb and go straight to the courthouse to get a restraining order. She knows soo much about my schedule though, I worry about my kids.

Any strategies to shut down this obsessive and violent behaviour would be much appreciated.   

Betech

Be prepared for her to turn on you soon if she senses you truly are going to leave. She will fear abandonment and sense that she is losing control. Because she likely feels that she has to be attached to someone she will start looking behind your back and gradually turn cold and distant as soon as she finds a likely new attachment. It was probably the harshest thing I have ever experienced.  I saw text between her and her friend talking about her recent dates. She justified it by saying she paid her own way. Lol. At this point they become dysregulated and all rational is out the window.  It's about survival for them. You feel like you know this person and find out they can turn on you and treat you as if you are nobody special.

[btechpc]

@Waifed - Thank you for sharing your experience. I am really scared about what will happen. I don't un-love someone overnight. I think that this behaviour may have started as she has begun to share less and lie more. I have given her anything she ever asked for (dream trips, louis vuitton hand bags, fine jewellery, clothes, held her when she cried, held her when she screamed at me for nothing, talked about a future, gave her unconditional love and tons of attention). She has a lot of people in her life with 'fleas' and I fear what will happen to her. I guess I will have to look at it as life experience, but cant take any responsibility for what choices she makes. I really want to help her, but I know I just can't do it. I honestly fear the worst for her.

@fromheeltoheal - thank you again for your insight. It has been the most clean to my situation yet. I will make my own decisions moving forward.

@Tausk - I am seeing a therapist. He has helped me evaluate the idea of healthy relationship and what I need from a relationship to be happy. As with any relationship Trust is a big factor.

In regards to her submitting to my desires, I think this is misunderstood. I am the one who does what SHE wants during sex, even though I am a willing participant and have no issues with that. In regards to setting it up just so I can still have sex with her, I have zero desire to do this. First off it is really unhealthy for her in her current state of mind and I feel it would very much damage her further as she would have a false sense of hope we would get back together. I do not want anything that could possibly help her in a faint hope of recovery to get in the way. She is a good person, I love her and want the best for her... . but I think she is too broken. I can't be the fixer, I have 3 kids who depend on me and thats my #1 priority. I guess if I looked at I could have been emotionally neglectful in a sense, but I have never dismissed their feelings or wants to give into her needs.

I understand that the restraining order may seem extreme, but it's the only thing I can think of that may work to keep no contact between us. She always gets what 'she' wants... .

I'm not sure how you see my behaviour as obsessive or violent? Please explain.

[Tausk]

@Tausk - I am seeing a therapist. He has helped me evaluate the idea of healthy relationship and what I need from a relationship to be happy. As with any relationship Trust is a big factor.

In regards to her submitting to my desires, I think this is misunderstood. I am the one who does what SHE wants during sex, even though I am a willing participant and have no issues with that. In regards to setting it up just so I can still have sex with her, I have zero desire to do this. First off it is really unhealthy for her in her current state of mind and I feel it would very much damage her further as she would have a false sense of hope we would get back together. I do not want anything that could possibly help her in a faint hope of recovery to get in the way. She is a good person, I love her and want the best for her... . but I think she is too broken. I can't be the fixer, I have 3 kids who depend on me and thats my #1 priority. I guess if I looked at I could have been emotionally neglectful in a sense, but I have never dismissed their feelings or wants to give into her needs.

I understand that the restraining order may seem extreme, but it's the only thing I can think of that may work to keep no contact between us. She always gets what 'she' wants... .

I'm not sure how you see my behaviour as obsessive or violent? Please explain.

I simply wasn't sure who you were referring to?

But maybe ask your T if checking someone's spending habits and asking questions to catch them in a lie... . might be considered obsessive.   The vast majority of people on this board, including me, fall on some part on the OCD spectrum.

I can't evaluate what may or may not be violent in your life.  Again, I was just trying to sort through the thread. I understand how difficult it is.  I'm not judging.  I don't know your situation, but I know I was so lost in the FOG that I could barely respond with any rational decision making at all.  I was a basket case for a long time.   

But, what disturbed me about the post is the implication that the children may be at risk.  So I would say, do whatever you think is best if you think it would protect the children.   Again, a really good topic to discuss with your Therapist.  Getting an outside professional opinion who know your issues first hand might be very valuable in this case. 

Protection of innocent children is the only thing that I'm concerned about in this thread.  I hope you continue to share, to learn and to read. 

We're here in support.  We understand the FOG.

[btechpc]

Thanks for clarifying Tausk... . I'm definitely in the FOG today. Not going to lie, it's been a rough one. Just feeling so hurt, so stupid for not going with my gut on this one.

My kids will always be first priority. When I speak of violence, it's on her part though. She's hit me many times in a rage. I usually am able to talk her down, but I'm pretty sure she's got no idea what is going to happen in terms of me dissolving our relationship. I think she will be shocked to be honest, but who knows. I'm expecting the full rage and hurtful words to come out of her. I sure I will cry after, I really thought she was 'the one' and coming from a divorce to her I was already very vulnerable.

[Tausk]

Thanks for clarifying Tausk... . I'm definitely in the FOG today. Not going to lie, it's been a rough one. Just feeling so hurt, so stupid for not going with my gut on this one.

My kids will always be first priority. When I speak of violence, it's on her part though. She's hit me many times in a rage. I usually am able to talk her down, but I'm pretty sure she's got no idea what is going to happen in terms of me dissolving our relationship. I think she will be shocked to be honest, but who knows. I'm expecting the full rage and hurtful words to come out of her. I sure I will cry after, I really thought she was 'the one' and coming from a divorce to her I was already very vulnerable.

It's very hard.  I know.  We know.  But again, are your children safe?

[btechpc]

The children will be safe. They are at their moms during the week. If things go really bad I will inform her of the situation, but if that's the case I'm going to have to get the police involved. I'm sure it will be fine, I always think of the worst and hope for the best.

[Tausk]

The children will be safe. They are at their moms during the week. If things go really bad I will inform her of the situation, but if that's the case I'm going to have to get the police involved. I'm sure it will be fine, I always think of the worst and hope for the best.

Good.  The safety of the children is most important and can't be compromised regardless of how thick the FOG.

I'm glad you are on the board.  Keep reading and posting and venting.  We understand.  It's so very hard move out of the FOG.   And I know that I was filled with shame, which was maybe the hardest thing.  And no one else understood.

But we on the Board understand how difficult it is and how Disordered the Disorder really is. 

I had to learn about the Disorder and myself and how to depersonalize.  But it's gotten much better and I feel good about myself.  Recovery is possible.

T

[blissful_camper]

The lies were the deal breaker for me.  When I realized the lengths he had gone to lie, and what he lied about, my concern expanded to my physical health.  Trust is huge.  If it isn't there, that person can't be trusted with your well being or health.  Protect yourself. 

[btechpc]

I went to her house today primed to drop the bomb. We went out for breakfast (our normal routine) and then went back to her place. She came into her room and I said we needed to talk about some stuff. She looked shocked but agreed.

I told her that I had found out all the lies about her spending and lying to my face about it. She asked how I knew and I flat out admitted that I checked her phone and credit card account. She immediately admitted to the spending and gifts. I asked her why she would lie about this and she explains that I would have gotten mad. I explained to her that I found it very disrespectful that she would lie to my face. I explained to her the fact that a pillar in the building of a loving relationship is truth. She flew into a crying fit bout how I didn't love her because I didn't trust her. I said that was wrong as I do love her very much, but I was questioning how she could love me but lie to my face. So we discussed that at length. She associated the lying with me being disappointed and angry.

I asked her why she lied to me about her sexual history. I said to her I would never lie about this if she asked. She admitted that she has only had sex with one guy (the 23yr old who she had a abusive relationship when she was 13) and felt very shameful about it. She said that she was worried I would judge her and think she was stupid or weird for being like that with this guy. I explained that I wasn't ashamed that she had the relationship with this guy, but felt very sad for her that this was her only sexual/loving relationship before she met me. I told her she should feel no shame around it as she was a child and was groomed and ultimately abused by a predator. She broke down for a bit, cried, said I love you many times and said how I was the only guy who ever said she was beautiful besides her dad. She also admitted that there was no sex with the teacher, and no 3 way sex with her boyfriend and best friend (female), but did admit to doing 'stuff' with this girl. I said that was normal to experiment, no issues there and not abnormal.

I set the boundary that I would not accept any more lies, even if she thought the would make me mad. I explained I would rather know and have the opportunity to talk about it and not lose trust.

Did I just get recycled? I feel like I just set myself up for more disappointment.

[fromheeltoheal]

Time to make a decision man.  You're on the leaving board, which indicates you've decided to end it with her, yet you keep going back.  If you do want to be with her there's a Staying board for that, and there's also an Undecided board, not that this site dictates your relationship, but everyone on this board has decided to end it and is getting on with detaching and moving on.  So what do you want?  She only has as much power as you give her, and you can only 'get recycled' if you choose to get back into it with her.  It might be good to look at what you mean when you say you 'love' her; is that a healthy mutual bond, or does she feed a desire in you that is more like an addiction?

[Tausk]

Any strategies to shut down this obsessive and violent behaviour would be much appreciated.  

Who's behavior?  Yours or hers?    I can't figure it out what you are asking or what you want.

Do you want to break it off or do you want to figure out how to manage things so that you can still have sex?

And, the fact that you are thinking that you need to file a restraining order within a couple of days of your acceptance of her submitting herself to your desires seems... . hypocritical and f'ked up.

And it doesn't really matter, it's an issue between you and your gf, but my response in relation to the fact that protection of the children is the most important issue.  Is she a threat.  Is your behavior causing you to be a poor parent?  Is there neglect involved... . even at an emotional level?

Are you seeing a Therapist?  Perhaps that can help.  

I had to ask myself... . what did I want.  :)id I want manageability? Did I want out?  :)id I want freedom from the pain?  to let go?... . There are endless questions in the FOG, but until I knew the real question, I couldn't make an  honest decision.

I hope you find what you want.

Same post as what I wrote yesterday.  

If you want to stay, get on the staying board and learn techniques.  If you want to leave... . leave.  If you want to manipulate the Disorder, you will lose and things will get much much worse.  

And all that is fine if it's just about you and her.

Can you see the insanity.  In the same breath your are talking about violence, degrading sex, restraining orders, safety of your children, trying to break up, and now just further deepening your trauma bond.   How are you going to keep your children from being collateral damage.  Maybe call children's protective services to do an evaluation on yourself and your family to get an outside opinion.



So the only questions... . Are your children safe?  Are you damaging your children?  Maybe give custody to their mother so that you can pursue your relationship.  And I'm assuming that you have told the children's mother what is occurring because she absolutely needs to know what type of people are being introduced into their lives.  Because with this back and forth between you and the pwBPD, I promise you it will get very bad very quickly.

Protect the children if nothing else.

[Surnia]

If you want to stay, get on the staying board and learn techniques.  If you want to leave... . leave.

I would like to underline this. Perhaps you need the Staying first. Reading some important parts of the LESSONS there. The following part could be a good start: Understanding our role in the relationship.

The Leaving board is for people who are out of the rs for more than a month. Something to think about.

[Love Is Not Enough]

Things have been crazy at work and I missed when you started this thread. I meant to end my last post on your other thread to you with an important message. Not to be hard on yourself if you ended up not going through with it. I am not surprised at all with what happened and I want to reiterate not beating yourself up about it.

You have received a ton of great advice and I really liked what fromheeltoheal had to say. You seem to be moving in a good direction with all of it.

Any strategies to shut down this obsessive and violent behaviour would be much appreciated.  

I know I am on the staying board, but I have thought about this a lot when things were really bad. I am also in a similar situation of being financially depended upon and dealing with someone who could also become very vengeful.

One strategy you could use is to detach slowly and give her time to attach to a replacement. I know this will be hard for you emotionally and you would have to mentally break up with her in your head before physically breaking up with her. Start seeing her less and less while slowly cutting her off financially. Try to avoid being physical with her as much as possible. Set boundaries about her spending and begin cutting her off financially. All of this will cause her to detach from you emotionally and may soften any retaliation. You already have concerns of her seeing other people and this could work in your favor. Maybe one of them would step up if you pulled back. I know this would be very difficult for you, but I think it would help you a lot when you end it. She might even end if first if you are lucky. Just think about it. If you do not think you are strong enough to do it slowly, then definitely go back to doing it quickly. Just plan accordingly for her reaction and do not get bogged down in the fear. Eventually all the turmoil will pass and you can move on with your life.

Good luck with whatever you decide and no matter what happens we are here to support you.