My daughter is manipulating and winning...

[Parents! Get help here!]

I'm concerned about my daughter's ability to manipulate the professionals that have been providing her with intensive therapeutic support through a program called Intensive Alternative Family Treatment where she resides in a therapeutic foster home and slowly works her way back into the home.

I have heard from the case manager that the team feels that she will be done meeting her goals within 90 days while I see her manipulating due to the conversations that I have had with her.  Her focus is on a guy that wants to take her paint balling and does not understand why I am in agreement that she should be allowed to go out with a kid she doesn't know after she snuck out of the house and was caught in the back seat of a car belonging to a boy that has done nothing but hurt her (one incident was considered criminal by her high school administrators and required the police to get involved because she was "victimized".

Considering that she has been and has recently shown to be promiscuous, I would think that this issue would be brought into the light and processed, but instead I am being told that they have not seen any behavior that suggests the need to bring up a behavior that is not presenting for them to see.

Of course they don't see it.  She is a 5 star master manipulator and has been able to keep up appearances for 4-5 months at a time.

I am staying positive and supportive of my daughter because she truly has come a long way however, I am very concerned about her intentions regarding going out on a date with a boy that she doesn't know and apparently met on Instagram.  So her two biggest triggers boys and social media are only being discussed with me and even though I am disclosing what she intends to do and has been actively posting somewhat inappropriate pics of herself on a site and has no supervision as to what she is doing and discussing on her cell phone, they still don't see any cause for concern.

I have done a ton of self seeking and have been able to get out from under the power that she had over me, but this kind of concern has been very difficult to overcome.

Has anyone has any experience with manipulation and sabotaging their progress even under the care of a team of support?

Googie     

[Googie]

I'm concerned about my daughter's ability to manipulate the professionals that have been providing her with intensive therapeutic support through a program called Intensive Alternative Family Treatment where she resides in a therapeutic foster home and slowly works her way back into the home.

I have heard from the case manager that the team feels that she will be done meeting her goals within 90 days while I see her manipulating due to the conversations that I have had with her.  Her focus is on a guy that wants to take her paint balling and does not understand why I am in agreement that she should be allowed to go out with a kid she doesn't know after she snuck out of the house and was caught in the back seat of a car belonging to a boy that has done nothing but hurt her (one incident was considered criminal by her high school administrators and required the police to get involved because she was "victimized".

Considering that she has been and has recently shown to be promiscuous, I would think that this issue would be brought into the light and processed, but instead I am being told that they have not seen any behavior that suggests the need to bring up a behavior that is not presenting for them to see.

Of course they don't see it.  She is a 5 star master manipulator and has been able to keep up appearances for 4-5 months at a time.

I am staying positive and supportive of my daughter because she truly has come a long way however, I am very concerned about her intentions regarding going out on a date with a boy that she doesn't know and apparently met on Instagram.  So her two biggest triggers boys and social media are only being discussed with me and even though I am disclosing what she intends to do and has been actively posting somewhat inappropriate pics of herself on a site and has no supervision as to what she is doing and discussing on her cell phone, they still don't see any cause for concern.

I have done a ton of self seeking and have been able to get out from under the power that she had over me, but this kind of concern has been very difficult to overcome.

Has anyone has any experience with manipulation and sabotaging their progress even under the care of a team of support?

Googie     

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

googie

Do you feel that they really don't understand the issues with your dd or is it that they don't think those issues are important or your concern valid? I am not sure how to explain this but are they saying that she should be allowed to make mistakes and until she makes those mistakes nothing can be done? I am sure your dd is a master of manipulation but trying to control what she posts on social media is an exhausting exercise... . dating a stranger is very frightening but is there a way for her to still meet this person... . maybe at your home etc? Then branch out to dates? Can there be a compromise?

Googie... . I think there are somethings your dd is going to do that you can't control... . letting her feel the consequences of those actions would be better than trying to protect her. She might learn more from her mistakes by letting her do some of these things. How old is your dd now? I am not sure I remember your situation but I wanted to address that point. I feel I have spent a great deal of time and energy trying to control my dd and things just got worse... . now I have boundaries in place and try to let the natural consequence unfold... . there is less conflict in our home and things have improved. At times it is not easy to watch my dd struggle and I so want to help her but I also have to learn to step back and let her try and solve these problems by herself.

What are they doing at the foster home that is different than your home? Is it working? Are things better for her there? Is she behaving better? I think it would be good to look at that... .

[peace in steel town]

jellibeans is right, the more you try to control, the worse it gets. They want what they want, and they want it now, and they will manipulate others to get it. Ours is a 5 star manipulator, she spins everyone around her. Sadly, she also does what yours does, posting revealing pictures on line, hooking up with whoever. There's not much you can do, consequences work, but sometimes you get consequences that you won't like.

[crumblingdad]

Unfortunately, t's not at all unusual for pwBPD to use splitting techniques and confuse treatment professionals in a program such as your DD's.    My DD did this at 4-5 different group homes as well as when she was hospitalized.  Even the RTC she ended up in with tremendously experienced staff confided in me they really found it tricky because she can be so inspirational and so witty that she often had many of them confused.

I couldn't agree more with jellibeans.  Trying to control it is probably impossible.  If you're willing to try to find a compromise of sorts that validates her feelings that she's safe while still protecting her through the compromise might be your best bet.

 

[theplotthickens]

The professionals are very biased toward showing "progress" and "meeting goals."  

I had to take control of my home, and stop trying to defend my decsions to others.  As some wise person on this board said, the less people hopping up and down to their behaviors the better.

There is lots a parent can do.  Pick you battles, but WIN the ones you pick.  The only thing my dd understands is tough.  :)on't back down, stay true to your values.  Empower yourself as a parent by focusing on what you CAN do.  If your child is a minor, she has no right to be out on the street running.  You can: limit internet, take away phones, limit contact with unsavorory characters, install an alarm system, lock up your valuables/sharps, change her educational plan, fire professionals who are not helping your family cope, set boundaries for yourself, help your daughter develop positive connections, help your daughter discover her goals, talents and aspirations.

The only thing my daughter understands is "I am a benevolent authority.  I will create structure and rules, and expect you to abide by them.  When you break them, I will do something. (It will be logical, and it may be deferred until she is stable.) I love you too  much to give into you, or to allow your bad choices to serve you well.  I will NEVER, EVER give up on you, and I love you!"  And this is my house, my rules.

Too many times professionals take on too much of a parental role, and this downgrades the parental status to our kids.  They think the professionals are in charge, not us!  And that gives them reason to manipulate.   The therapist does not live with my daughter, and does not pay my bills.  I had to actively fight to maintain authority in my home, and remind my daughter than I am in charge of my home, and *I* am hiring the professionals.  They server UNDER me, the parent.

For some reason, this attitude and stance turned my daughter around enough to make me feel safe in my home.  I know it sounds extreme, but our kids are extreme!  I won't play the Mom vs. Therapist/professional game anymore.  It has been a healthful choice for our home.  When the hierarchy is confused, it makes our kids go wonky and act up.  

Like friends or family, therapists give out plenty of bad advice, it just costs and arm and a leg!  Remember that YOU are the parent, and the professionals work for YOU.  Stand tough!

[Googie]

jellibeans-  I spoke with my DD who is 16 earlier, and wouldn't you know that she left out some pertinent information regarding her "date" from the other day, , such as the fact that the therapeutic foster father drover her to the mall and kept her in his eyesight the entire time she was there.  Lol, makes me have to sit back and get a good laugh at myself.  Grrr, this is the kind of stuff that can get me off track and React instead of allow her to trip herself up on the details.  I should have known that there was more to the story.  We really lucked out with the family she is with because they truly don't sway from her best interests.

Well, she got me again and I am grateful for this opportunity to learn for future incidents.

And you are absolutely right on target when you said that there will be things, with this being one of them, that I can not control.  I need to be very aware of projecting my own fears and making things worse than they need to be.  But in the past, police interventions were a common occurrence when she in a relationship, and I most definitely do not want to have anything like that happen again.  My DD thinks that she "knows" someone because they know the same people.  This warped thinking is dangerous for any teenage girl, but can trigger her unhealthy behavior in a heartbeat and has in the past.

Peace in steel town-  how do you handle her behaving regarding posting inappropriate pics, and promiscuity?  It makes me want to throw up when I think about it.

Crumbling dad-  Splitting is her specialty and she is a pro, but I am just now starting to understand it.  I am willing to compromise, but in situations that are and could be risky, how exactly can I compromise and be able to let go? 

the plotthickens- (love the name)  We are veterans when it comes to working with professionals and have had too many of them be completely ineffective.  I have had heads roll, and have to problem demanding competent support.  The program that my DD is in has her residing outside of our home and will slowly have her readjust back into our home.  I love the people she is working with, and should have known better to believe that they would allow her to go off with two boys to go to the mall.

I can see that you are a Mama Bear just like me and have been through the mill dealing with the issues that come along with BPD.  My focus at this point is to allow my family to heal.  We are still a broken family from what we all have experienced in these last few years.  Time is on our side and we are going to need a lot of it.

Thanks guys.  I always love hearing your insightful feedback.  I learn a lot about BPD and myself every time I come to this site.

Googie

[theplotthickens]

Hi Googie!

It sounds like you've got a good team there!  I hope and pray that things are on the upswing for your family.  I was responding with feedback about experiences with manipulation, and I dd not know anything about your story beyond that.  It sounds like you are confident and ready to take on this new phase!  I wish you all the best with the transition!