just dropped his stuff off and saw him...

[barbwire911]

UGH... . I had emailed my exBPD yesterday morning saying I have his stuff and to let me know when to drop off.  Never heard back... . sent closure letter (more for myself) a few days before. Never heard nothing. Decided to just drop off his stuff at his house. Dropped it off and he had just been going into the home when I drove around the corner. So handed him it, said nothing and walked away.  He just said "oh thank you" in a child like voice.  So odd when he does that.  Anyways I cannot believe after all I did for him and all the drama I took from his ex (name calling, etc.) that I could just be discarded so quick (even as a friend).  His ex FB'd me he had always just meant to use me and had never intended to be with me and has moved onto the 16 year old dog walker. He is age 34.

Amazing how these people feel no emotions.  I mean he did not even respond to the email for when i could drop the stuff off (and that is his stuff!) so I just wanted to do it as having it meant I still had a part of him here and my healing was delayed I felt fully.

And yet  less than 2 weeks ago this man was asking me out to lunch again and saying he missed me, etc. then suddenly within 15 hours of that I went to painted black again just because his ex called me names through my ex's FB (weird... . yes) and my ex responded to grow up and stop talking like trailor trash to her and apparently that hurt her and she ran back to the exBPD (her ex and now mine too) for assistance in this as she is helpless and said my ex was verbally abusive to her... . (this is his ex wife and she seems to have her own mental issues (violence, etc.)).

So he is mad at me and blames me because my ex upset her telling her to get a life and my BPDex wants to keep his ex wife calm while he divorces her as she is going after him for everything.

This is so stupid really and long term I am better off without all his baggage and drama however just the fact he seems to "feel nothing" and sees me as evil for all wrong in his life and uses that stupid silent treatment thing bothers me.

[Tausk]

Uggg.  It must have been hard.  It sounded like you handled it well, with minimal damage or emotion.

It took me a long time to understand this, but it's a Disorder.

It's mental illness.  It's Delusion. It's Bat Sh't Crazy.

Would you expect more from a person who was severely Autistic?  Because that's one way of looking at it.  A pwBPD can not process a b/u like a most people.  It's not that they won't... . They Can't.

And understanding this fact helped me to depersonalize and detach.

For the most part:

They can't grieve.  They can't think of a mixture of good and bad, so you're either one or the other. They can't take responsibility. They can't apologize with real substance.  They don't have a true inner child or self.  They don't even have a continuum of memories.

They are traumatized three-year old children, surviving in the terror of their very real nightmare of an existence.

And there's nothing we can do for them.

And the only question that gives me comfort, is to ask why move toward such and interaction with a person who suffers from this Disorder. 

It's not as obvious as a person who hears voices, or an Autistic adult, but it's not much better.  And I allowed it.

Hang in there.  It hurts. It sucks.  It's confusing.  It makes not sense in our world, but sadly it's completely normal to a pwBPD. 

Is pure sadness.

[GreenMango]

This man has too women in the pot.  He's still married dealing with divorce, an ex girlfriend and a new girlfriend.   

He's really not in any shape to be relationship material right now.  He may never be.

long term I am better off without all his baggage and drama 

I agree.   Detachment is difficult.  If you look at the detaching steps to the right margin at the top where you do think you are at right now? 

[barbwire911]

I would say I am between 1 and 2 in terms of the detachment of this... . it was so up and down at the very end... . within a period of a week I was twice painted black and twice painted white.  I am now black again but long term I know black is the best option.  I find it hard reconciling how extreme the two sides of these BPD people are.  When he is nice, he is soo perfect... . but when he is bad... . yikes. And there is no middle ground... . and no communication at all. About nothing.  One day he just decides to stop talking and I have no idea what I did wrong.  It is odd.  At any rate, this has been ongoing for 1.5 weeks now with him silent treating me... . it could be for any number of reasons. I am not sure which one is the correct one but whatever.

Just wondering... . could this "splitting" be caused by the mother designating one child as the "all good" one and the other one (the sibling) as "all bad"?  My exwBPD used to tell me he never liked his sister and I asked why and he said "she was fat and lazy and selfish." Then he added that his mom always said he was the easy child to deal with and the sister was the difficult one... . could this cause a child to then also split people into all bad or all good categories?

Like at times I just want to call him and be like "can we talk" as sometimes that worked in the past and then we would have a good conversation and I was painted white.  It changed so often though.  And I keep thinking maybe if we talk it can be good... . as when we talk, we can talk well. But then something causes him to become irrational again and make no sense.

UGH... . it is so hard.

[GreenMango]

I'm not sure how the specifics of his parent actually play out today in his behavior.  All I know is parenting affects kids both good and bad.  It's a hard call and it's real easy to get caught up in trying to a Freudian psychoanalysis if it's confusing.

here's what I know I look at behavior (both sides), values, and boundaries.   I try to keep it simple in respect to what is working and what isnt.  I know emotions are part of it but under these circumstances I find looking at facts to be pretty reliable and to help some of the confusion.   They also helped me get to closure.

So I may not look or dig too much into the parenting as much as I would accept that something may be going on there.  That's enough. The reason being is looking at the whys explain things but is that really enough to justify it or alleviate the disappointment or hurt.  I found it was a poor substitute.  The background on the clinical aspects really helps Iif you are actively involved in a relationship with someone with BPD and trying to learn tools or employ skills at any given situation.

You've mentioned this started as an affair for both of you... . not a judgment.  Generally when these secondary connections (not the primary relationship - the marriage) end they aburptly.  The fantasy part is dispelled and it looks to kind of ruin the experience, or the need that the relationship filled so the relationship fizzles out.  I'm not trying to make this more painful.  I really think these situations don't seem to be able to function past the temporary and its very easy to get hopeful.

If you were hopeful that you were going to be together one day and leave your respective partners ... . well I don't think you would be the only person who's experienced that and hoped for that.    And you've developed a bond with this man and it's understandable to miss him and want to talk.  He may have just been looking for affairs.  This is going to be difficult to work thru.  I feel for you and it is hard.

Just out of curiosity what drew you to this man?  Is it something that you might be able to work on in your marriage?   

[barbwire911]

I am not sure what drew me to him... . I think though I was lacking physical and emotional in my relationship with my spouse. Not sure where our marriage is going to go but couples counselling does not seem to help lately.

I think he is alot like my father... . that is likely what drew me to him.  And I think my FOO is important to look at which is what I am doing in therapy.  I know affairs rarely work out... . i kind of knew it would not but it is still painful i think. And lack of closure makes it even harder.

[GreenMango]

It's a process Barbwire.  It's okay (not that it's great to hurt) to be hurt.  That's going to take some time work through.

It does sound like you are trying to find some support with therapy.  I'm not real versed on the couples counseling thing and the process to reconnectIing if it's even possible.  I do know you aren't the first person tto find themselves in a relationship with someone with BPD when vulnerable or having problems in their marriage.

Some people work it out and some dont.  Looking at that family aspect you mentioned  can help to figure things out.  Maybe it will help with the marriage counseling too.

I do believe because situation with this man has so many other parties involved and seems messy it will help to try to eliminate some of that exposure.

What do you think you would need to get closure?

[Skip]

And lack of closure makes it even harder.

What closure are you looking for?  What would you like to see happen?

[barbwire911]

Ideally I would like to talk.  I am a communicator and I think my exBPD knows (well I am sure he knows as I always tried to explain to him communication makes or breaks a relationship) and I think that is why he employs silent treatment alot as he knows it gets me.  I mean, for heavens sake... . I even emailed him about his own belongings and he would not reply so I just dumped them on his doorstep today and he said thanks when he opened the door. I just walked away saying nothing.

I think talking is important but apparently with my exBPD there is none of that. You are painted black as of an argument (even just a small argument or even nothing but he will pin it on you in his mind) and then just left to guess what it is all about. Well this is the last time for sure I go through this as he has always come back weeks or months later apologizing, etc. But then he repeats the same behaviours over and over.

So i realize that this closure thing is not going to go as it would in a normal break up given this BPD is anything but normal. He ia actually a BPD with NPD too so a double whammy. Woo hoo! Lucky me... . i hit the jackpot! LOL.

This guy has every criteria (and constant, consistent criteria) from the DSM for NPD and BPD. Oh and he was also diagnosed with anxiety and OCD.  Yup... . I picked the King of them all.

LOL... . see I like when I feel like this better than when I am feeling that longing.  I realize there is no rationality with him. I mean our conversations never made any sense and half the time he was going on about some crazy paranoid delusion he was having that people were watching him or he sees what they are thinking, etc. It was nuts.

So yeah, likely a normal rational conversation for closure would not be an option with this one... .

[Skip]

So yeah, likely a normal rational conversation for closure would not be an option with this one... .

I know this is frustrating and it hurts.  Sometimes it helps to look at this.

What do you want to say?  Anything that wasn't covered in the e-mail?

What do you hope to hear from him that will constitute closure?

Sometimes its all been said and we think if we just say it better next time it will be heard.

With his wife and your husband now embroiled in the fight calling out each other and each of you, is it wise to do anything other than walk away from it all before more is lost?

What brought your and his spouse into this?

[barbwire911]

yeah it is a bizarre story. Well to get rid of him after our second break up I spoke to his wife and told her the truth and met with her. She wanted to work it out with him, so he went through the motions of couples therapy with her from August 30, 2013 until Dec.2013 when he called it quits and moved out. he had contacted me sporadically through while they were in therapy but he was not supposed to and she caught him and made him block me on his phone. That was also the first time she contacted my husband and told him to tell me to stop texting her spouse as she was working on her marriage with him.  Then she also sent me a FB message saying "stop texting my husband" yet it had been him who texted me all along.  Apparently his wife was very threatened by me... . natural i guess.

So I told him we need NC and then 14 days later on Nov. 13,2013 he sent me a long email apologizing for how he had behaved when we were together and through therapy he was realizing alot about himself and although he acted angry when with me and blamed me for everything, he realized therapy made him see he was angry at his marriage and his life and not me. He said if he had a chance to redo things, he would treat me much differently.

So we started being friends and speaking however he was still married but he wanted advice on initiating divorce etc.  he is a very private person and we were good friends even before this affair thing happened with us.   So I helped him and helped him find a nice place to live, etc.  She saw his rental application and my name on it as a reference and she then contacted my spouse again on FB saying she was just letting him know me and her spouse were in contact and she wanted him to know as she felt betrayed by it but yet she also said that by me telling her about the affair originally, it helped her realize her marriage was over and she was thankful for that from me and wished us well. She seemed normal but she goes between extremes too as then she randomly calls and just yells "dirty slutty whore" into the phone. So odd. 

So my spouse had never replied as he did not want to get involved in this mess but finally when she screamed that on the phone to me, he could not take it and was sick of it and told her to grow up and get some self esteem and stop talking like trailor trash and realize her marriage ended way before my affair with her spouse (he had cheated many times prior and even his therapist said he never loved her... . apparently he says he married her as he thought it was the right thing to do as he wanted to buy a house and did not have enough for a down payment on his own and had been with her dating for 4 years already so it seemed natural).

Yeah this is messed up the more I write about it. So he triangulated with me while with her and now he is with the 16 year old dog walker and was lining that up i believe while on outs with me... . but he has had many others in there during his marriage... one being his ex wife's 17 year old cousin and he is age 34. It is all so odd... . LOL... . more I write about it the more I cannot believe I am writing this stuff and even a part of this as for the most part I am pretty smart and on the ball with a great job, good looks, etc.