How do you handle when BPD is depressed?

[momtara]

If she had 6 figures and a great art career, do you think it would stop the behavior?

She'd find a million other things to make her sad.  It's mental illness.

The way she treats you is not normal or okay.

[letmeout]

You only think it is acceptable in your life because that is what you are accustomed to.  momtara has it right, it is not OK.

[hurthusband]

If she had 6 figures and a great art career, do you think it would stop the behavior?

She'd find a million other things to make her sad.  It's mental illness.

The way she treats you is not normal or okay.

if she had 6 figures... it would be better, but not fair.  Money does not buy happiness, but with enough money you can pay problems to go away to a degree.  Now does that mean she just will keep increasing how much she wants... possibly

Well, yesterday things really got bad... .   As you know my wife is in Europe with her self centered parents, and a sister that each day is becoming more and more beligerent.

They go to some restaurant in Lucerne and my wife claims her sister was trying to basically bully them all around to walk 5 miles back to the hotel in the rain in 28 degree weather while her father 5 days ago collapsed walking 1 mile in the middle of the road with back/neck pain and completely disoriented at 70 years old and overweight.  My wife had brought a phone charger that worked over there and her sister then after dinner takes the charger refusing to let my wife use it to call her kids, along with more verbal abuse.  They had been drinking and my wife told her she was a miserable person and thats why she was alone.  Her sister put her fingers in her ears and chanted.  So you all know, my wife sister is 31... not 8.  Anyways my wife goes to the bar downstairs and her mother comes up and when asked for help with sister, the mother refuses to help.  Wife then goes off on her explaining that it hurts when they make fun of her having an art degree and no job.  That her sister is bullying her.  That she has an art degree and on a trip that was supposed to be for her graduation, they refuse to go to even one art museum in Europe.  She explains that she is not the only one sick in the family, but she is the only one getting therapy and the only one that is labeled as crazy by them.

Whole explosion... . of course, then the conversation is while I am at a job, and she gets angry with me cause she thinks I am judging her then.  She then says she is going to fly to Amsterdam and never come home and hangs up.  No clue what to do.  She will not answer calls.  I text that I am helpless and in the dark and I dont know if I should call her parents.  She gets mad and beligerent.  Mad I am not home, but I am dropping off her car to get repaired for her.  She then says she is flying home and get her a plane ticket... we both admit it is probably over between us... .   With a tax bill of $12500 due April 15th, no money in the bank, mortgage due on the first, I charge a $2500 plane ticket for her home...

This supposed gift her parents got her has cost me about $5000 and she did not even have a good time, and it was money I did not have...

I feel hopless.  Kids saw me broken last night.  Uncontrollably crying.  What do I do?  their mom is in another country with people that she is scared of, deserved or not, and doesnt speak the language or have money.  Do i tell her to tough it out?  The scenario is spinning massively out of control... she would only have to stay 48 hours more.  She said she just could not stand to be by her sister any longer.

I told her everything she described about her sister is what she was doing to me at that moment and everything she does all the time to me.

I really tried hard this week... i single handedly... took care of kids, got doors put in the house, volunteered 6 hours at Boy Scouts, worked a job that required 50 hours a week at least, had the kids a sleep over, cleaned, laundry, handled car repairs, and more with nobody... . nobody... wife wasnt around, her family wasnt around...

No real appreciation... no time for myself... I do not see the point of any of this.  Why work harder than anyone else I know, why stress myself out, why do nothing for myself, all for not only no appreciation but hate or another problem of somebody elses to fix?

Is this my wife's fault even this time?  Is it her family's? 

a. I could see my wife percieving all this as their fault and she is just being difficult... I see that with me

b. Her parents have basically been unreasonable and trying to control me.  Setting up the trip, scouting stuff, and everything else without even talking to me.  Basically throwing me under the bus

c. My wife's sister says their mom is verbally abusive to their father

d. Her sister has no friends, no boyfriends in forever, and is miserable

My wife is the only one in therapy.   She had to develop BPD from some influence from family.  It certainly seems reasonable she is the victim this time.  While I can put up with it how I can, I cannot imaging most others would besides us here on these forums, so maybe she is the victim and she had to be helped...

I just do not know... Sunday is coming up... something I really wanted to do is going on this Sunday, but every Sunday (the one day I get off) is the same.  Massive arguments and complete hell

[Grey Kitty]

Wow. Too much to deal with.

Getting her a plane ticket home is the only thing you can do. She can go home on the new ticket or on her original return, her choice.

You can't save her from her family at this distance. You can listen to her and support her, but that doesn't mean you should listen when she screams at you, or drop things at work that could lose you your job.

Hang in there! 

[Grey Kitty]

Oh yeah... . one other thought for you: Your wife's family is behaving in an emotionally toxic way toward you, and not helpful for your wife.

You have no power to change them.

You don't have much influence on your wife to protect her from them.

You can minimize your contact with them. It sounds like they are already helping you do that, and that is probably your best action anyway.

[hurthusband]

yea she on her way home... i just am tired of the constant nuclear meltdown situations and dealing with them.  it is killing me...

should i have left her there?

I do not know.  I do not want to be selfish but I do not know what to do

[hurthusband]

now she is talking about how she ruined her parents trip and she should pay for the whole thing... which means me pay for it all including them

how is this family all about themselves and draining emotionally, financially, mentally... to please themselves?

she keeps saying that she going to pay me back for the trip... what does that mean?  I consider what I make as our money... so is what she makes not our money?  I do not keep tabs on what my wife owes me... i guess what mine is hers and what hers is hers

[guitarguy09]

now she is talking about how she ruined her parents trip and she should pay for the whole thing... which means me pay for it all including them

how is this family all about themselves and draining emotionally, financially, mentally... to please themselves?

she keeps saying that she going to pay me back for the trip... what does that mean?  I consider what I make as our money... so is what she makes not our money?  I do not keep tabs on what my wife owes me... i guess what mine is hers and what hers is hers

I can totally relate. Whatever I make is shared, but my wife's considerable savings is off the table because she is a SAH mom and she doesn't "replenish her account" (even though she does a couple things on the side to make a little money. She is going to pay for most of the down payment on our next house, but I'm guessing only because I don't have enough to do that in my account. When I suggested that she help pay for our vacation we just took, she brought it up multiple times how I was being selfish.

[guitarguy09]

My situation isn't nearly as bad as yours, but I can kind of relate to where they are entitled to your money and you not to theirs.

[momtara]

"she should pay for the whole thing... which means me pay for it all including them"

Please don't give them or her any more extra money - once you do it one time, they just ask for more and more because they know they can manipulate you.  You will wind up in debt and if she decides to get a divorce or make a false charge against you or something else, you'll be broke to defend yourself.

I know what you are doing - you are sidestepping blame over and over.  You don't want to give her any ammo to use against you.  I understand.  You do everything right.  But in the end, it just takes more and more tiptoeing and tapdancing.

If you pay money for the trip or give her more money, it will just hurt her kids, and you, because you won't have money for other important things.  Be firm from the beginning and then you will not be manipulated.

Remember... . boundaries.

You are a great husband and dad.

Maybe you can do a quick adoption of the kids now while she is depending on you.    If you two do get divorced, try not to give her any child support unless she lets you have some visitation. 

[momtara]

Yes, that family all needs therapy, in a big way.

Maybe your wife's therapist can see them all one day.

[hurthusband]

I just feel wiped out mentally... .   Really been going an extra mile to try and get stuff done.  I am amazed I can keep up with what I am doing, but was getting it done this week... Then this... it was like a tsunami.  I feel disoriented literally now.  Things seem out of focus, spots, everything was for not or not enough.

I have no clue how she is going to get through next few weeks and as an extension myself.

I just want it all to stop... EVERYTHING.  I do not want do anymore. 

[momtara]

We've all lived it, sometimes for weeks, months - it's lucky I don't have a disability, because I dealt with a nutty husband while taking care of a newborn.  It is kind of a miracle you can do it all, but you can. 

What's happening in a few weeks?  Is there any relief in sight?  (Too bad her family won't all stay in Europe.) 

Just be firm about not giving more money. 

[Grey Kitty]

I agree--giving her family money because she "ruined" their vacation isn't going to make any peace if you do it--it will only make you poorer and set a baaaaad precedent.

All I can suggest is try to remember that you don't have to believe her crap... . and you don't have to convince her that it is crap!

Hang in there!

[SweetCharlotte]

Poor HH. She was demanding that you fund her early ticket back from Europe because she cannot stand to be with her FOO any longer? At that point in the conversation I would develop a faulty connection. What? Sorry, I cannot hear you at all! Bye!

Her sister may have been doing you a favor by swiping her recharger. She put herself there and she is on her own. As you said of her sister, she is not 8.

I am dealing with the annual tax bill myself, due April 15th. When I was single I got a refund for being Head of Household with two kids. Now, our combined incomes place us into the Alternative Minimum Tax bracket. No more Child Credit and many other deductions, including my mortgage interest and considerable unreimbursed professional expenses, are gone. I paid the whole bill last year of $7K (in addition to the amounts withheld from our paychecks); he agreed to handle this year. He makes 80% of what I make and I pay all my kids' expenses. Well, he only has about $2K and I have to put up the remaining $5K. I have it, but it means no long-distance summer vacation and no saving toward my kids' college education. Aarrgghh! Today was our fourth anniversary. Every year my savings account gets lower.

[momtara]

Funny how we get into paying for things to make problems go away.  I paid for our whole wedding cuz he said he couldn't afford one, paid everything for both of our kids, and I mean everything.  And of course, paid for my divorce. 

[hurthusband]

yea... she got home last night...

I saw it coming but...

a. picked her up in the truck because she was unexpectedly coming home early I had her vehicle in the shop.  She was angry that it was tight space

b. got home and some mail was in the mailbox... angry over that

c. first thing was inspect all the doors put in.  All doors in and operating perfectly.  One door did not line up perfectly with how tile was laid below, but its literally lined up with wall... from what I can tell the problem is the flooring that was installed and that was not installed straight by off a slight angle. grade which caused a slant up to the door

d. just mean and nasty to me the whole time after I just spent $2500 to get her back home and spent $4k on a trip that was supposed to be a gift from her parents.  Nevermind I was the one who supported her through college.  Yea, she cleans some, but if that adds up to $10k a year I would be a bit shocked and I can certainly tell you alot of that is NOT going to the family but being spent for herself

finally had it... i exploded... kids were even there.  They know whats going on and when she would turn her back would pat me on the back saying "im sorry, its not your fault".  I told her she is acting just like her sister.  I slammed the door and left.   Totally inappropriate around kids, but the abuse.  Finally came back in, she asked kids to step outside and let me have it.  I told her that when she needed help I was there to help.  The car, doors, everything were taken care of to a degree and I had no help with any of it and did the best I could with no help.  She of course says its not her problem.  I tell her that she had to spend 5 days being verbally abused and treated like hit and she couldnt handle it.  She told me I had no clue what it was like.  I told her "I know perfectly well what it is like. I have spent the past 9 months with it coming from you."  She kept on... she couldnt compliment me on one single thing I did while she was gone, or the fact I got her home on a last minute flight when we are broke and I owe so much in taxes because SHE wanted to claim a different way this way to get HER a better house.  She went on how marriage is over.  I told her "you killed our marriage and you pretty much killed me"

I couldnt handle it anymore.  I would have drove off and left, but we are down to one car with other in the shop. 

When I was making $10 an hour I was good enough with money to still put away $20k within  2 years time and cover my expenses.  Since we are together, with $60k I would spend probably $75k a year cause she ndeded more.  With $80k it was $90k, with $100k a year I am spending $125k a year.  She is never statisfied.  Financially, I am ruined cause of her.  I could get out of the hole eventually without her... yea... but even worse is that there is no thanks, no kindness, no nothing... its always your a piece of hit and "you can never understand the hell I live through"

Are these people that walled off and self centered?  Of course, we understand their hell

Not only do we have the same problems and difficulties of normal people, the BPD makes sure we feel and suffer the same hell they are going through.  If anything, we suffer a worse hell than they do.

O, and to make matters worse, she let one of our kids use her ipad.  Now, of course, her iphone backs up all its data to the cloud which the ipad also picks up.  One thing it picked up that our kid found was about the abortion last year because she got angry with me and screenshotted a nasty text about how the abortion was my fault and it got saved to the cloud.  So we got to explain that to him yesterday.

Honestly, I do not think it affects him that much, but to my wife... there is no subject more painful than that... .

[momtara]

Sounds like you said what you had to say.  Like a typical BPD person, she will react angrily now, but will think about it later and realize it's right, even if she can't come to terms with it.  Who knows, maybe it will help.  Please do keep a tape recorder, if only for your own peace of mind, in case she makes an allegation or just says thinks that aren't true. 

[waverider]

The worst aspect of this grind is that you don't get a respite. not like a professional carer, you don't get to knock off, go home and live some normality, and then come back and work on the issues afresh in the moment. You are chained to the escalation train.

When you do make a stand it is usually on the last straw rather than the real issue

[letmeout]

the BPD makes sure we feel and suffer the same hell they are going through.  If anything, we suffer a worse hell than they do.

Why do we feel so helplessly responsible for taking care of these partners? Hoping they will get better, but most never get better, they get worse over time.

I worry that you have built up so much resentment it could have a serious impact on your mental & physical health.  Non's can develop all kinds of health issues when dealing with the abusive emotional roller coaster their BPD partners present. I know that from experience. Since getting away from the person who inflicted such misery, my health has never been better and life is good and fair and peaceful.

Bless you HH, go for peace and happiness.

[momtara]

What makes me angry is her family.  They shouldn't be taking any money from you for that trip.  It was a 'gift' for your wife.  Make sure you reiterate that, even if she thinks she ruined the trip.   It was her gift and her right.

[hurthusband]

Things got better last night but then this morning while nice it was jabs at I shouldnt be working Saturdays... .

Yea, I do not want to work 6 days a week, but if you need more money to pay more bills... you have no choice.  Its not the worst thing in the world.

Especially saying it after you had to get a $2500 plane ticket home because you couldnt handle two more days with your family...

[momtara]

well, exactly.  you can't win.  hope you at least got a thank you for the plane ticket!

[waverider]

What would have happened if you simply did not have, and couldn't raise the money for those plane tickets?

She knows you can, so she put you in that position, so what will be different next time she wants to throw a tanty and get you to mop up after her?

She is putting you in the role of rescuer, and you are taking it. She has the perfect actors for the role of persecutors. This cements her position of justified victim. What is going to change these dynamics?

Even though she dumps on her family to you, it is just as likely she dumps on you to her family. This makes it harder for you and her family to be indifferent towards each other. The dynamics of the triangle are in place. It is hard to escape from that, but that is your first objective, even if she accuses you of being non supportive

[SweetCharlotte]

That is exactly what I was going to suggest to him, Wave. That he put up a boundary around bailing her out for her own choices, especially involving her FOO.

[thicker skin]

Hurthusband 

You appear to have Welcome written across your forehead, dude.

The family messed up the vacation... . They should suck up the cost.

It sounds like they all reverted to their unhappy familial roles, the moment they embarked on their trip... . Bossy parents and sibling rivalry. These are not people who have learned to accept each other as individuals and rub along. They all want it their own way, or there is Hell to pay.

I'm struggling to understand that A) as a nasty husband and father, you allowed her to go away with her family and took care of the kids. B) You got constant earache whilst she was away and then had to pay for the trip, that wasn't your idea In the first place, or mess up?

I bought a second-hand, but never worn pair of boots last month, for £7.50

I was screamed at in front of my children for being selfish and putting their needs behind mine. I haven't bought myself new shoes for four years. He thinks I'm narcissistic. My feet hurt in my old boots.

I took my children away for one night, to escape the fights, years ago and he still believes that I had group sex whilst we were gone. One night away, in 12 years, at the time.

Depression is horrid ( many of us who have lived through the turmoil can vouch for that ) Being kind and gentle, loving and supportive, is an admirable and wonderful gift from you to her, but you need to draw the line somewhere and allow her to feel the consequences of her choices. Nobody makes improvements if they don't have to pick up the price of their mistakes.

[guitarguy09]

Hurthusband 

Depression is horrid ( many of us who have lived through the turmoil can vouch for that ) Being kind and gentle, loving and supportive, is an admirable and wonderful gift from you to her, but you need to draw the line somewhere and allow her to feel the consequences of her choices. Nobody makes improvements if they don't have to pick up the price of their mistakes.

I totally agree. From what I have read on this site and on the Stop Walking On Eggshells book, it is good to let BPD's bump into a few walls from time to time. It acts as a type of course corrector. Otherwise they can feel like they can just run roughshod over you and other people.

[hurthusband]

Yea, i was going to tell her to tough it out but then I thought of something...

She is literally stuck with 2 BPDs in her face at all times who do not have any treatment at all in a foreign country with a step father who is ready to keel over and die at any time. 

I am with one BPD and am ready for life to end at any moment... .   She is mentally damaged and stuck in that scenario for another couple of days?  I couldnt even handle that.  I think its only cause of strength from God that I can tolerate her with therapy.  Id jump off a cliff if I had two there

That made me think that it was not BPD causes her to ask me to rescue her, but that even a non-BPD would need a rescue out of that situation.  There is no doubt in my mind her mother and sister are BPD, but with no treatment.

So I am not so sure it was me giving in there, but usually, yea I still have sucker across my forehead

I shouldnt be surprised.  Last year for her bday, her sister gave her half a lawn mower, and informed her both halves would be at her house if she needed her present to mow the lawn.

Past few days have been nice.  She certainly seems appreciative and maybe its a wake up call that how her parents were to her is how she has been to me.  Maybe she realizes it to a degree and seems to be more mellow.  She even let me do some things I wanted to yesterday for like 6 hours!  That hasnt happened in maybe a year

I am not going to bet on it, but who knows.  Also, her parents have STILL not even checked on her.  Her sister got back Saturday and sent a text if she was alive.

I dunno about you, but if my child had disappeared in middle of the night and I woke up with no clue where they were or the other daughter said she took a plane home, I would be terrified for them even if they were a troll. 

It was interesting too because I found out that her sister had trashed talked me too telling my wife "yea when you husband said he was having a hard time pleasing you and was concerned you might hurt yourself, I told him he knew what he was getting into and it was his job as a husband to make you happy no matter what".  Even my wife thought that was hited up.  Also, wife also found out the whole time her sister was going behind her back trying to sabotage her with her parents saying things.

This year holidays I think will be lonely...

[momtara]

"maybe its a wake up call"

Oh, so many times I have thought that.  That would be rational.  But she is mentally ill.   "Moments of clarity" are typical, but they don't go on forever.  Still, I think you did something heroic and it will stick in her mind, even if it doesn't cure her.

I thought about your situation today and thought of how you have to set firm boundaries without being mean - that's the only way you'll get to do some of what you want to be happy.  Once you start backtracking, she steps all over you.  I am so glad you got to do the thing you wanted to do on Sunday, that you were worried she would not let you do.  But what if she had given you a guilt trip, accused you of cheating on her during the activity, or something else?  You can follow the validating but firmness, saying something like:

"I can understand you enjoy having me around, but just like everyone else, occasionally I want to pursue hobbies and interests, and it is important to me to enjoy the event tomorrow, which I had been looking forward to for months, so that's what I'm doing."

[empath]

Something about the whole situation makes me wonder how much of it was a matter of perception on your wife's part. It seems like there were a lot of accusations of people that could have been 'misinterpretations' of what was going on. No doubt that interactions with family are difficult; I know my husband's interactions with his family often result in his imbalance emotionally.