Don't know what to do

[raytamtay3]

Yeah, I'm going to give it a little more time before I determine if it's a good fit or not.

I almost had another heartattack last night. My mother and I went out for a relaxing bite to eat last night (yeah right), and I received a VM from the nurse at the RTC. At first the message sounded like she said my DD was hit in the face by another girl and was at the ER! I freaked! I called her back and here she said my DD was SPIT in the face by another girl.    The procedure at the RTC is to take them to the ER to get checked out I guess due to it being a bodily fluid.  

I still have not heard from DD. THAT still has me concerned.

Why can't I ever have peace?

On a different note. Ex is planning this whole lunch thing for Saturday. Buying us all hoagies... . hmmm... . should I eat it? Think it will be safe? . It's really ashame. Deep down inside he is a nice guy. Just like deep down inside DD is a nice girl.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

I just received a call from her. As expected, she is pushing to go someplace else. Said she can't even leave her house because she is constantly getting bullied by that girl. Said staff are taunting her telling her she acts all big and bad with them, why can't she stand up to the other girl? DD said because she is on probabation and doesn't want to go to jail.

She said the incident with being spit on yesterday occurred while staff were around. She also said that the incident where she got arrested was her trying to spit her hair out of her mouth and the staff member saying she spit on her and to give her all she got so she can send her to jail.

I know I have to take what she says with a grain of salt.  I asked her why she hasn't called and she said because they wouldn't let her. She sounded sadated just now... . I know they don't do that. She said the only reason she is so calm and not crying and fraking out is because she's repeated these issues to so many people now, and because they said if she made a fuss, they'd cut the conversation short and not allow her to call again.

She said she is beyond depressed. Said how she really went in with an open mind but that this place is doing nothing but harm to her.

I told her her father and I will be there Saturday and also about the emergency meeting in April.

She wants me to contact her CM about getting her out. I said I make no guarantees that will happen, but that I will let her know her concerns and tell her to call her.

[Rapt Reader]

She said she is beyond depressed. Said how she really went in with an open mind but that this place is doing nothing but harm to her.

I told her her father and I will be there Saturday and also about the emergency meeting in April.

She wants me to contact her CM about getting her out. I said I make no guarantees that will happen, but that I will let her know her concerns and tell her to call her.

I know that probably wasn't easy for you, raytamtay3... .

You did well; hang in there. Saturday will be here quickly, and you will get a better idea of what the truth is at that time.

My prayers are with you 

[raytamtay3]

Thanks. It wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be though. I was just letting her talk and she kept asking why I wasn't saying anything. I was choosing my words very carefully. .

[jellibeans]

Hopefully you get a clearer picture on Saturday... . I would be careful to promise or even suggest to your dd that you are working to get her out... . once she knows that she will stop any work she is doing and just wait things out. Try to listen like you have done and say you will look into what she has told you but I would really stop from giving her the idea her stay there is limited... . hang in there... .

Your dd might be depressed... . I think that is one of the stages they go through and is very natural before she can start working on getting better etc and working with the T... . have you received a treatment plan yet?

[Being Mindful]

I would not make a big deal about an "emergency" meeting. She will grab onto this and keep putting the pressure on.

Ray - I know this is really hard. Try, try, try to take out your emotions in this. Don't react or make an emotional decision. I know you want relief from the pain that you are experiencing with her being in an RTC. I remember the pain myself. I can remember looking and wanting any excuse I could use to justify getting my daughter out. Re-read what you wrote about your DD's version of what has happened there. Do you really believe that your daughter is that innocent and that everybody else has caused all these problems for her.

This might not be the right RTC, but you have to plough on then to find the right setting. The right setting is so VERY crucial.

[Verbena]

Your daughter is playing you.  None of what she is telling you fits with the information you've been given about her behavior.  For what she is saying to be truthful it would mean that the staff (I'm thinking mainly of the e-mail you received) is making up very specific lies about her. I especially don't buy the part about being too fearful to leave her house because of a bully. 

I hope your meeting goes well this weekend, and I agree with Being Mindful that I would not use the word "emergency meeting" in front of your DD.  Stay strong and don't fall for her manipulation.  She's going to pull out all the stops to get what she wants and if you don't give in, she may just turn a corner and start doing better. 

[raytamtay3]

Darn. Here I thought I handled it pretty well by telling her that she needs to give it more time, that I can't make any promises but will express her concerns to her CM. I didn't see that as making any false promises. I'm going to be more straightforward when I see her tomorrow though.  I did tell her about the emergency meeting in an effort to let her know her concerns are being addressed. She kept saying it's a discharge meeting and I said no it isn't.

I feel like I always say and do the wrong thing.

[raytamtay3]

How common is it for RTCs to use physical restrains at their facilities?

[lever.]

I don't think you have said the wrong thing Raytam as long as it is absolutely clear that the meeting is an opportunity to discuss any difficulties and is NOT about leaving.

The outcome may be looking for ways she needs to adjust her own behaviour to get the best out of the facility but if there are genuine concerns about how things are handled they need to be discussed.

Its ok to let her express herself and listen but that doesn't mean she is going to get what she wants if it isn't in her interests.

Good luck tomorrow with the visit

[jellibeans]

Ray I feel like your dd had conduct disorder or ODD... . she is going to fight getting the help she needs and it is going to take time for her to commit... . I am concerned that if she is moved from this place too soon she will fall into a pattern of resisiting and being moved again. I understand your concerns but realize that your dd is going to do or say anything to get out of there so don't take what she says as truth.

RTC will use restrains especially if your dd is resisting or being violent. She is testing her limits right now and trying to see how far she can push.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Being Mindful]

Ray, Do you mean like a physical hold of staff to a child? If so, it is common. However, in my experience there is a process to it... . it is defined upfront in the treatment plan, there is a threshold to how many per month and if it is exceeded, then there is a mandatory follow up which in our case was called an administrative meeting where everything is reviewed by the entire treating staff to see what changes are needed to reduce the number of holds. Also, in our plan we were called within 24 hours to be advised that a hold took place. Any questions, let me know.

[raytamtay3]

I don't think you have said the wrong thing Raytam as long as it is absolutely clear that the meeting is an opportunity to discuss any difficulties and is NOT about leaving.

The outcome may be looking for ways she needs to adjust her own behaviour to get the best out of the facility but if there are genuine concerns about how things are handled they need to be discussed.

Its ok to let her express herself and listen but that doesn't mean she is going to get what she wants if it isn't in her interests.

Good luck tomorrow with the visit

She isn't going to be in the meeting. She'll be at school.

Our treatment plan meeting is scheduled for April 10th.  Since now I have to attend the emergency meeting, I'm going to have to conference in to the treatment plan meeting. Her father will be there for that one in person. I just can't take off twice due to work obligations.

[jellibeans]

Ray I think you will know more if this is a good fit for your dd after you get the treatment plan... . I hope your emergency meeting goes well and you get some answers.

[lever.]

That's good. It will give the opportunity to have a very honest and open chat with the staff so you can get a feel for the place, and you can express any worries without your DD using it as a way to manipulate.

I agree that when you have a full care plan things will become clearer

[raytamtay3]

So part of this is going to be a rant/vent because I find it therapeutic to get it out in writing rather than verbally to the attended recipient. Lol.

My exh had mentioned about bringing hoagies to the RTC so we all could have lunch. I thought that was very nice of him. But I told him how I had talked to DD and she was really craving Taco Bell. Since he asked what she wanted him to bring, I told him he could bring Taco Bell and gum at her request. I told him that there isn’t any Taco Bells on the way to the RTC because it’s in a remote part of town, so he’d have to go to the one around the corner from his house…

He was already agitated because we initially were to meet at the RTC at 1:00 for our visit but the CM there asked us to come by 12:00/12:15 as she had an appointment. I was fine with it but exh started texting me derogatory comments about the woman. He is very prejudiced…I didn’t respond but I was annoyed at that.  He also told me how the woman would have to throw him out because he was running late and planned on getting his full time in…I did not respond in an effort to not trigger him more.

When I was about 20 minutes from the RTC, he textd me asking me to stop at a Taco Bell to get DD’s meal.  I reminded him that there was no Taco Bells on the way to the place.  Ten minutes later, he texted me “well I guess I’m standing in an imaginary place” alluding to the fact he was at a Taco Bell. I just copied that quote from my cell phone just now mind you…

So I get there on time and we had to wait 40 minutes for him to arrive.  He showed up with two hoagies, one that he said was for me and one that he said was for him…no Taco Bell. I asked him where the Taco Bell was, and he said he wasn’t able to get over on the road to get it… (can you see what I’m dealing with here people?).  Anyway, I let it go… but I felt so bad for DD. Not only DD, but DS as he didn’t bring him anything either! And DS said he was hungry. So long story short on the food situation, DD and DS shared mine and I was 100% fine with that.

The CM told me before exh arrived that she wanted to speak with him because once again he was rude to the receptionist. I asked that she please wait until after the visit because he was already upset about being late. She said ok.

While I was waiting for exh and DS to arrive, DD and I had the opportunity to talk. She told me everything that has been going on. At one point the CM came in and told her I was there to visit and not hear her complaints. I spoke up to the CM and calmly told her that it was fine and that I’d rather her get it out before her brother came. Red flag #1.

At our county CM’s request, DD documented everything that occurred and I’m going to use those notes to write this. Some of them were signed off from witnesses and some of those witnesses were staff members.

3/21/14 – Staff T and E put me in unnecessary restraint, cursed at me and encouraged me to “not get big” with them and to go outside and fight other youth saying I’m too scared to do ___.  False accusation of spitting on staff.

3/21/14 – Requested to press charges on A (youth) and waiting for supervisor to come down and talk about it and make call to police. A outside door trying to break door down and get to me. Witnessed.

Asked to see supervisor again to press charges. Nobody came yesterday when asked repeatedly to see supervisor to press charges.

3/22/14 – Going to DHS to file report on A (youth). Requested to call stepdad & CMO. Mrs. M refused to sign witness form. Didn’t let me call CMO because they didn’t want me to go home. Refused me right to call cops on staff who was encouraging fight.

3/23/14 – 4:15 PM Got into fight with A. Requested to go to DHS to press charges. Requested to talk to therapist several times all day. Asked for ice repeatedly.  (DD claims youth punched her in the face and head).

7:29 PM – Still haven’t spoken to therapist. A & N still consistently trying to come after me.

3/24/14 – 7:30 am – Never saw therapist. Never got ice. Never went to DHS.

3/24/14 – Staff let youth do mean skit about me in A.R.T.

3/24/14 – Mrs. B and Mrs. D constantly doing my triggers after telling them what triggers me. Asked not to read because had a headache. Said I was refusing.

3/25/14 – Mrs. B joining in with kids about how teacher didn’t “hit me” (DD claims the woman who restrained her punched her in face "not hard but still"... Asked her repeatedly to stop talking about it and to stop bringing it up and she said don’t tell me what to do. And kept talking about it and bringing it up.

3/26/14 – When arriving at VQ after I went to the psychologist, everyone was in the school for A.R.T. and I sat on the other side of the room away from A. I sat by Mr. S, Mrs. R & Mrs. J. When it was time for everyone to lineup, A walked up to me and hawked spit in my face (left eye & hair) and I got up and staff restrained me and A, then she left. Requested to press charges. (DD was taken to the hospital as protocol and they had to numb DD's eye to scrae out food partacles in her eye from spit).

PS: Every time something is about to happen, I always try to tell staff beforehand and they never do anything. I would like to press charges please see me tomorrow.

3/27/14 – Still haven’t went to DHS to press charges asked again!

3/28/14 – Still haven’t pressed charges.

[raytamtay3]

DD asked if I could take her next store to press charges for the assault. I said ok. The CM tried to come up with an excuse to prevent me from doing so. Claimed nobody would be in the office to receive DD when she came back. Flag #2. I asked her if she could please try and have it arranged that someone would be there when we got back as DD. She ended up arranging it.

We went over to the DHS which is on the grounds of where my DH works. Not sure if I mentioned before that my DH works right next store to the RTC. Unfortunate he doesn’t know much about the place and neither does anyone at his work. The officer we spoke to was very nice. He said how he was very familiar with the girl DD is having trouble with and pulled out a file on her. Red Flag #3. She's only been there 4 months.

When we got back to the RTC nobody was in the office. Nobody was on the grounds. No security anywhere whatsoever. Anyone could walk in.  Red flag #4.  DD had to go looking for a staff member.

I went in with an open mind. But I have bad vibes still about this place. Even more so after going there now. I don’t feel like my DD is getting the therapy she needs, it is not a secured facility, no cameras around which I feel there should be especially for allegations that my DD is making, this girl that is harassing DD seems psyschotic and I don’t like how three times now she’s gotten to DD which means staff aren’t as on top of things as I initially thought, the staff seem cold and ignorant, nobody calls me back, I’ve asked to speak to DD’s therapist repeatedly and haven’t once, etc.

I plan on raising my concerns Wednesday. But as of right now, I don’t feel that it’s the right place for her. I did not tell DD this though. She needs a lot of help.

She was playing her father and me against each other there. She saw that she wasn’t getting over on me, so tried working on him. They exchanged many glances at each other when I was talking about things. DD tried to get us into an argument by asking why I don’t tell her father anything, etc. She someone managed to get a paper clip that she straightened out and anytime I said something she didn’t like, she started scratching up the table we were sitting at and so I took it from her.

[Verbena]

I'm sorry for the trouble with your ex and for the bad feelings you have about the RTC.  I thought about you on Saturday.  Were you able to talk with anyone to get their perspective on your dd's behavior and/or complaints? 

[raytamtay3]

I'm sorry for the trouble with your ex and for the bad feelings you have about the RTC.  I thought about you on Saturday.  Were you able to talk with anyone to get their perspective on your dd's behavior and/or complaints? 

Thanks Verbena! No, I will discuss everything with them Wednesday at the "emergency meeting".

[jellibeans]

Hang in there Ray... . I look forward to hearing how the meeting goes on Wednesday... . you have some valid concerns.

[peaceplease]

Surprised that they have no cameras!      I hope you can find alternatives.  Look forward to meeting results.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

Without saying too much to DD I would now be doing serious research into alternatives.

You are walking a delicate path between not allowing her to manipulate and being open to hearing genuine concerns and you have also seen problems for yourself.

I would still avoid any knee-jerk reactions though and see what can be addressed in the meetings.

She certainly needs residential treatment. Good luck with the meeting on Wednesday

[raytamtay3]

Yeah I really don't know if these are legitimate concerns or if I'm trying to find anything to have her moved. Isn't that sad? I can't even determine whether or not I'm being overly critical for the wrong reasons? But based off of what I wrote, do you feel as I am? 

[jellibeans]

The hardest problem I had when my dd was in RTC was giving up control... . it really was as simple as that... . there were things I didn't like about the place at all and at times I just had to address that with the people in charge... . I really tried not to let dd see my worry. I do not consider myself a control freak but I have that fixer mentality... . I want to go in and make everything better... . I want to protect my dd from hurt when at times she needs to go through some hurt as a natural process of growing up... . these kids are so sensitive and that is probably why we want to protect them even more... . try to go in with an open mind... . I really think you will know more once you get a treatment plan... . that is when you can see if they know what they are doing. Hang in there

[raytamtay3]

I was just bcc'd on a response that our county CM sent to exh. He sent her an email at 8:00 PM last night saying how we want DD returned to the shelter until we find another RTC for her! That's what DD said she wanted! It's not what I said was going to happen! I have not made a decision about it yet until after our meeting tomorrow. This is exactly why I did not want him involved. DH is livid. I'm use to this crap.  I sent ex an email letting him know I did not make that decision and that I'm waiting to see how the meetings go.

[lever.]

It's really hard to say Raytam. Its difficult when we know our children aren't always going to be honest with us but also not all treatment centers are good. I would just listen carefully in the meeting and try to trust your own judgement. I would be quietly researching alternatives though. Do let us know how the meeting goes.

[lever.]

Just cross posted with you. You would have thought the CM would have spoken to you first given that she knows the situation. Grrr! I would e-mail her

[raytamtay3]

Just cross posted with you. You would have thought the CM would have spoken to you first given that she knows the situation. Grrr! I would e-mail her

Thing is, she does know the situation. But she got angry with me a few weeks ago when I was trying to tell her and the RTC how he was related to getting DD help and she told me he has rights because he's her father! No he doesn't. He relinqueshed his rights to me when he willingly gave me full physical and legal custody because he could not handle her and gave up. But because DD said she wants him involved, I'm allowing it. But not fully. He has no say in her treatment. I do appreciate the fact she bcc'd me.

But like the RTC had to learn for themselves, she'll learn for herself because he did not like her response and he'll show her his true colors too. She told him that since she is an an RTC, it's the RTC who would recommend a transfer. That she is going to raise her concerns but that it's their call.

He's been blowing up my phone and I refuse to answer it.

[lever.]

I misunderstood a bit. I thought she had informed the RTC without telling you. It all sounds really frustrating though. Stay strong, they'll see what he's like soon enough.

[Verbena]

The hardest problem I had when my dd was in RTC was giving up control... . it really was as simple as that... . there were things I didn't like about the place at all and at times I just had to address that with the people in charge... . I really tried not to let dd see my worry. I do not consider myself a control freak but I have that fixer mentality... . I want to go in and make everything better... . I want to protect my dd from hurt when at times she needs to go through some hurt as a natural process of growing up... . these kids are so sensitive and that is probably why we want to protect them even more... . try to go in with an open mind... . I really think you will know more once you get a treatment plan... . that is when you can see if they know what they are doing. Hang in there

I don't have any experience with RTC's, but jellibeans' response above makes sense to me.  Having taught school for 29 years (mostly 13-14 year olds),  I do have experience with dealing with students with behavior problems and communicating with parents/administration from my perspective of what is happening.  Many times the version of events the child told parents was a long way from the truth.  Once parents got a completely different version of the behavior from the adult in the classroom who was dealing with the problem, they often saw the problem differently.  But sometimes they had parents (like your ex) who played the blame game just like their child was doing, undermined the authority of the teacher/administration, and ultimately made the situation so much worse.  

Everyone involved in this situation you're dealing with should be accountable--the facility itself, the other kids there, and your dd.    You've been given a lot of information already about your dd's behavior there, and it fits with the behavior you know--behavior that helped put her there.  She doesn't seem to be showing any accountability for that behavior and is focusing only on what everyone else is doing wrong and how she is being mistreated.  That's what pwBPD do best.  Their own accountability is never brought up because they are always the victim.  

That's not to say that you shouldn't have concerns and address them on your daughter's behalf.  The lack of security cameras and lax security would worry me, too.  Maybe this RTC can help her, or maybe it can't.  You will have a better idea once you talk to the staff at your meeting tomorrow.  

You have a reasonable expectation that the staff is doing everything they can to

keep all the kids there safe, hold them responsibile for their actions, and treat their issues as best they can.  I don't think it's reasonable, though, to expect that your daughter won't have confrontations and issues with other students and staff at any RTC.   You have too much experience with her having those problems in other settings. And if you move her to another RTC--and maybe you really will need to at some point--she will very likely have the same problems, until she decides to make some changes and accept some help.  

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and praying your meeting goes well.