Mediation? Sole custody?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My dBPDex has been up and down for the last two years. I've documented almost everything that I can. It's honestly exhausting. We are going to mediation on the 1st and I'm curious to see what will happen.

When we signed our first parenting plan 18 months ago, we were getting along fairly well. However, at that time my ex had been trying to get back together with his ex wife so I was far from his mind. When that fell through and fizzled out then he was back to focusing on me. Now that I've moved on and no longer entertain his eccentricities, he is demanding that we modify the parenting plan.


He's already listed out that he now wants a week on/week off schedule for our 19 month old son and he wants full custody when our boy is ready for school. He is moving 2 hours away to live next door to his girlfriend. He's moved 4-5 times that I'm aware of since our child was born.

I'm wondering what the tipping point was or what extent of "crazy" it took for the non parent to obtain full custody? Or was it a drawn out string of behavior that caused the BPD parent to lose custody of the kids?

Also, what is mediation like with someone like this? I can't even imagine. He always makes demands of me or just tells me what is going to happen instead of trying to discuss it. Perfect example, today he was supposed to have our son back to me at 9 am. He texted me at 8:15 and said he was just now starting his two hour drive. When I stated that I was had taken off work to accommodate HIS schedule so he could see our son he simply said, "I'm doing the best I can with what I have." Seriously? I'm beginning to believe that a lack of punctuality is very much a symptom! Grr! If I do the same thing then he starts screaming "Contempt of court!" at me.

[Stuffie]

My dBPDex has been up and down for the last two years. I've documented almost everything that I can. It's honestly exhausting. We are going to mediation on the 1st and I'm curious to see what will happen.

When we signed our first parenting plan 18 months ago, we were getting along fairly well. However, at that time my ex had been trying to get back together with his ex wife so I was far from his mind. When that fell through and fizzled out then he was back to focusing on me. Now that I've moved on and no longer entertain his eccentricities, he is demanding that we modify the parenting plan.


He's already listed out that he now wants a week on/week off schedule for our 19 month old son and he wants full custody when our boy is ready for school. He is moving 2 hours away to live next door to his girlfriend. He's moved 4-5 times that I'm aware of since our child was born.

I'm wondering what the tipping point was or what extent of "crazy" it took for the non parent to obtain full custody? Or was it a drawn out string of behavior that caused the BPD parent to lose custody of the kids?

Also, what is mediation like with someone like this? I can't even imagine. He always makes demands of me or just tells me what is going to happen instead of trying to discuss it. Perfect example, today he was supposed to have our son back to me at 9 am. He texted me at 8:15 and said he was just now starting his two hour drive. When I stated that I was had taken off work to accommodate HIS schedule so he could see our son he simply said, "I'm doing the best I can with what I have." Seriously? I'm beginning to believe that a lack of punctuality is very much a symptom! Grr! If I do the same thing then he starts screaming "Contempt of court!" at me.

[Nope]

Well, the good news is that mediation is a great place to bring up the punctuality issue. Maybe your state has a standard or maybe not. In the state I am dealing with, it's thirty minutes. But you can certainly say that you want a rule, and consequences, spelled out in the plan. Keep in mind that whatever you decide will also work the other way so keep it reasonable and fair.

Meditation is actually great because then there is a third party there to see that he won't be reasonable. And while you are at it, you get a preview of what kind of demands you are likely to hear again later.

Remember, you can't be forced to sign anything. If you do feel like some changes could work out or make your life easier but you aren't sure what it would be like in implementation, you can do a non-binding trial period to see how it goes.

He will probably always threaten contempt. As long as you are following the plan he can threaten all he wants but it is probably not going to go anywhere.

[Stuffie]

Well, the good news is that mediation is a great place to bring up the punctuality issue. Maybe your state has a standard or maybe not. In the state I am dealing with, it's thirty minutes. But you can certainly say that you want a rule, and consequences, spelled out in the plan. Keep in mind that whatever you decide will also work the other way so keep it reasonable and fair.

Meditation is actually great because then there is a third party there to see that he won't be reasonable. And while you are at it, you get a preview of what kind of demands you are likely to hear again later.

Remember, you can't be forced to sign anything. If you do feel like some changes could work out or make your life easier but you aren't sure what it would be like in implementation, you can do a non-binding trial period to see how it goes.

He will probably always threaten contempt. As long as you are following the plan he can threaten all he wants but it is probably not going to go anywhere.

His contempt of court threats are really just irritating. Before I realized what his disorder entailed, I'd try to give him some leniency. He would just randomly not show up or be extremely late for pick up/drop off. I did it to him ONCE and even gave him advanced notice and he flipped out on me. Our court order now is very vague. It states he gets one weekday from 10-2 and every other weekend. He never picks which weekday he wants and instead he says constantly that I won't meet him for that visit so why bother. I've met him every time he's asked. He never shows up on time even though he is fully aware that I'm leaving work in the middle of the day for both exchanges (thank god I have a very understanding and supporting staff at work!)

[livednlearned]

It can take a while for everyone in your case to see the pattern of disordered behavior, but they will see it. Many BPD sufferers have a hard time with boundaries, and a very hard time with authority. Courts tend to trigger them. Court expects both parties to be reasonable, so as long as you can remain reasonable (and document it), eventually court will see that you are stable, whereas your ex is not. I realize this isn't true for everyone, and there are bad lawyers, bad judges, and bad mediators, etc. But in general, over time the disordered behavior gets documented and that makes it easier to file for full custody.

In my case, we started off with joint custody and a 60/40 schedule (worked out in mediation). Then N/BPDx had a pretty bad spell and I filed for an emergency suspension of visitation. We had a parenting coordinator come on board right after that, and she realized what was going on. Then N/BPDx threatened her, and that kinda sealed the deal. It took 3 years, but I ended up with full custody.

Before you go into mediation, find out how it works. Who pays for it, will it be in the same room, is it binding, can you sign a partial agreement. For example, in my case, I was able to agree to 90%, but we could not agree on legal custody. So our consent order says "The parties do not agree to legal custody and this will go before the court." Then my lawyer and I just waited.

Also, it's a really good idea to ask for more than what you want. That's what your ex is doing. Ask for more so you have something to negotiate back to. A mediator is more concerned with settling than anything else. They take pride in keeping things out of court, and they see settlement as the priority. Your priority is different. You want the best arrangement for your daughter. So go into mediation understanding that you have an agenda, your ex has one, and so does the mediator. Make sure you know what your best-case scenario is, one you can live with, and one you refuse to accept. Write it down on a sheet of paper so you can refer to it while you're in mediation. Take it out in the bathroom and read it if things get emotional and you need a break to collect yourself. I found mediation to be extremely tense, and I was in a separate room. Being in the same room may increase the tension. There are pros and cons to being in the same room, but in the end, decide what you feel most comfortable with.

Be prepared to have to end mediation and settle matters in court. If you know what your bottom line is, and your ex won't meet you there, then cancel mediation so you don't waste money. If I had know that it was ok to do that, and if I had understood that some matters could be tried in court, it would not have cost me as much money. I didn't understand how it worked, and didn't have this board.

LnL

[Free One]

Great question and I would like to hear other's experiences as well.

livednlearned - Aside from the legal custody, did your ex actually do well cooperating with mediation? How much do you think his profession played into this? I worry my ex would just tell a mediator what they want to hear and stonewall when action is necessary.

[ForeverDad]

This is not a person who should have equal parenting time and definitely should not have custody.  These are no-brainers.  Why?

He used or uses drugs.

Things escalated quickly. He was dealing with his divorce and his ex wife. He had an enormous amount of stress and anxiety and returned to using drugs as he had heavily in his youth.

He is threatening, stalking, harassing and suicidal, all very serious issues that negatively impact parenting.

He threatened the man I was dating and would act out violently by slashing tires and stalking me whenever I was away from my children. T would belittle me to the point that I considered myself worthless and became dangerously suicidal.

He is a controller, what he did to you he will do to your child.

His need for control is amazing.

Claims of improvement or getting help are not reflected in his behaviors.

Today, after almost a week of very minimal contact and him telling me that I'm the one that needs help and that he is seeking help, he started belittling me again.

He has documented work issues.  Whether you can use his work circumstances as proof of his problems, I don't know.

He is a flight nurse and has access to quite a few different types of drugs and has attempted to take his own life with these drugs while seeking empathy from me. Currently they have suspended him from work until he completes treatment... .   my ex has a meth addiction and was suspended from his nursing job for stealing meds. He is now in out patient therapy for BPD and rehab for his addictions.

If he doesn't get what he wants, then he retaliates.  Just something you have to deal with.  Sadly, giving in only rewards/enables him and encourages him to keep doing it since the tactic worked.

Well, naturally, he never told me where we were meeting and I didn't let our son go with him. So what does he do? He calls Child Protective Services.

Moving frequently is not a good sign to a judge.  Wanting alternate weeks doesn't mean he will get it.

I am so stressed out about going back to court. My ex is a high functioning sociopath and has been diagnosed by two different psychologists with BPD. His latest certified letter states that he is moving (for the 5th time since our son was born 18 months ago) to the town where his new girlfriend and his parents live. He states that this is so he can have a support system for our son (or babysitter) and he wants our boy week on week off.

Sadly, just follow the order, appeasement and giving in are not solutions or fixes.

The order basically states that the receiving parent must pick up the child from where ever he is at the time. So I may have to go to the police station to get my baby back but as far as when his dad picks him up, it's basically where ever I am at the time. I just haven't made a big deal out of this. I might though, going forward. It is pretty inconvenient to have to drag my other child out at 8am on Saturday just so my ex can have his demands met.

Once Nov. hits then he will be taking him overnight every other Saturday and one day during the week for a few hours.

Is this the current schedule?  You have majority parenting time, right?  What is the legal custody, do you have full custody or joint custody with decision making or tie breaker? 

Now, about mediation... .   Frankly, if you are in a strong parenting/custodial position now at this time, then there is no reason to 'gift' him anything more.  Period.  Got that?  In light of his issues listed above, anything extra you would give him would be GIFTS to him.  Sadly, appeasement doesn't work, he won't reciprocate similarly.  Mediation is a place to find agreement or make deals.  While you can negotiate, he cant, he's too entitled, unreasonable, inconsistent and controlling.  He is seeking mediation based on making demands, not being reasonable.  For that reason, either (1) you gift away some of your advantages with nothing in return or (2) you listen, state the current agreement is as good as you can allow and then just wish him a nice day and walk out.

Yes, if mediation fails (as it almost always does with cases like ours) you may end up going to family court but you would do well there because (1) you have extensive documentation of his issues and poor behaviors and (2) judges are reluctant to change what currently works.

Frankly, the MOST you should allow - unless it is a judge ordering otherwise - is the 'standard' alternate weekends and an evening in between.  That's the absolute maximum.  Given his drug abuse, frequency of moves, threats, suicidal contemplations, etc it should be less than the usual.

If you don't have full custody, then you should have joint custody with either (1) decision making or (2) tie-breaker status.  You don't want to have to run to court every time he obstructs.

Also, you should always be Residential Parent for School Purposes, if not yet specified in the order, get that now well before school age arrives, don't let him be in charge of anything!

So why would he want equal time?  Perhaps so he can get child credits on his taxes?  If you earn more, then maybe so he can get child support from you?  (News flash:  When I became legal custodian - full custodial parent - in 2011, the GAL wanted parenting time to stay equal so ex could get child support from me, since I had the higher income.  Think, if your exBF wants equal time it might be to avoid child support or even to get child support from you!)

Remember, judges are usually reluctant to 'upset the child' by making schedule changes unless change is really needed.  There are so many issues with your ex that he would have a very hard time convincing a judge to grant him equal time.  With his history even a normal alternate weekend schedule for him could be iffy.

[Free One]

Wow Forever Dad, thanks for that post. Even though it doesn't fully relate to my experience, the breakdown of BPD behaviors labeled for the abuse they really are is eye opening.

[Stuffie]

This is not a person who should have equal parenting time and definitely should not have custody.  These are no-brainers.  Why?

He used or uses drugs.

Things escalated quickly. He was dealing with his divorce and his ex wife. He had an enormous amount of stress and anxiety and returned to using drugs as he had heavily in his youth.

He is threatening, stalking, harassing and suicidal, all very serious issues that negatively impact parenting.

He threatened the man I was dating and would act out violently by slashing tires and stalking me whenever I was away from my children. T would belittle me to the point that I considered myself worthless and became dangerously suicidal.

He is a controller, what he did to you he will do to your child.

His need for control is amazing.

Claims of improvement or getting help are not reflected in his behaviors.

Today, after almost a week of very minimal contact and him telling me that I'm the one that needs help and that he is seeking help, he started belittling me again.

He has documented work issues.  Whether you can use his work circumstances as proof of his problems, I don't know.

He is a flight nurse and has access to quite a few different types of drugs and has attempted to take his own life with these drugs while seeking empathy from me. Currently they have suspended him from work until he completes treatment... .   my ex has a meth addiction and was suspended from his nursing job for stealing meds. He is now in out patient therapy for BPD and rehab for his addictions.

If he doesn't get what he wants, then he retaliates.  Just something you have to deal with.  Sadly, giving in only rewards/enables him and encourages him to keep doing it since the tactic worked.

Well, naturally, he never told me where we were meeting and I didn't let our son go with him. So what does he do? He calls Child Protective Services.

Moving frequently is not a good sign to a judge.  Wanting alternate weeks doesn't mean he will get it.

I am so stressed out about going back to court. My ex is a high functioning sociopath and has been diagnosed by two different psychologists with BPD. His latest certified letter states that he is moving (for the 5th time since our son was born 18 months ago) to the town where his new girlfriend and his parents live. He states that this is so he can have a support system for our son (or babysitter) and he wants our boy week on week off.

Sadly, just follow the order, appeasement and giving in are not solutions or fixes.

The order basically states that the receiving parent must pick up the child from where ever he is at the time. So I may have to go to the police station to get my baby back but as far as when his dad picks him up, it's basically where ever I am at the time. I just haven't made a big deal out of this. I might though, going forward. It is pretty inconvenient to have to drag my other child out at 8am on Saturday just so my ex can have his demands met.

Once Nov. hits then he will be taking him overnight every other Saturday and one day during the week for a few hours.

Is this the current schedule?  You have majority parenting time, right?  What is the legal custody, do you have full custody or joint custody with decision making or tie breaker? 

Now, about mediation... .   Frankly, if you are in a strong parenting/custodial position now at this time, then there is no reason to 'gift' him anything more.  Period.  Got that?  In light of his issues listed above, anything extra you would give him would be GIFTS to him.  Sadly, appeasement doesn't work, he won't reciprocate similarly.  Mediation is a place to find agreement or make deals.  While you can negotiate, he cant, he's too entitled, unreasonable, inconsistent and controlling.  He is seeking mediation based on making demands, not being reasonable.  For that reason, either (1) you gift away some of your advantages with nothing in return or (2) you listen, state the current agreement is as good as you can allow and then just wish him a nice day and walk out.

Yes, if mediation fails (as it almost always does with cases like ours) you may end up going to family court but you would do well there because (1) you have extensive documentation of his issues and poor behaviors and (2) judges are reluctant to change what currently works.

Frankly, the MOST you should allow - unless it is a judge ordering otherwise - is the 'standard' alternate weekends and an evening in between.  That's the absolute maximum.  Given his drug abuse, frequency of moves, threats, suicidal contemplations, etc it should be less than the usual.

If you don't have full custody, then you should have joint custody with either (1) decision making or (2) tie-breaker status.  You don't want to have to run to court every time he obstructs.

Also, you should always be Residential Parent for School Purposes, if not yet specified in the order, get that now well before school age arrives, don't let him be in charge of anything!

So why would he want equal time?  Perhaps so he can get child credits on his taxes?  If you earn more, then maybe so he can get child support from you?  (News flash:  When I became legal custodian - full custodial parent - in 2011, the GAL wanted parenting time to stay equal so ex could get child support from me, since I had the higher income.  Think, if your exBF wants equal time it might be to avoid child support or even to get child support from you!)

Remember, judges are usually reluctant to 'upset the child' by making schedule changes unless change is really needed.  There are so many issues with your ex that he would have a very hard time convincing a judge to grant him equal time.  With his history even a normal alternate weekend schedule for him could be iffy.

I really like reading your posts and advice, just fyi! You seem to have this disorder and how to deal with it on lock down . Or as locked down as you can be... .

Yes, the every other weekend and one day a week is currently what's in place. He is basically only wanting the weekends right now so he doesn't have to take time out of his day to come get the boy then bring him right back. In the past he has just kept him until he deems fit instead of following the plan. Including a day where I waited for him for over an hour before I had to just get back to work then he called me and told me I had 5 minutes to get my son otherwise I was not going to get him back for a week.

I really would just like him to do every other weekend. The issue there is he, of course, wants the weekends that my daughter isn't home. She does an alternating weekend schedule with her dad and BPDex knows what that schedule is. He has no interest in making sure our son gets to spend time with his sister. It's ridiculously frustrating.

Anyway, I really appreciate your advice and it makes me feel so much better to hear someone tell me that I'm justified and not just being crazy. My parents keep telling me that maybe he's changed, that the drugs and stuff were just from a really negative time in his life and he deserves to be around his son. They just don't know him like I've known him.

[momtara]

He's asking for way too much.  Don't give in.  Don't be intimidated.  Your child is too young to be with him for that long.

[david]

I went to a mediation in 2008 with xBPDw. It went round and round for three hours with nothing settled. Ex kept changiong the subject and the reason we were there was never addressed. Finally I said , "It's a nice day today and I don't see any reason to stay here." I stood up and walked out. We had a court date the following day. My issue was that she was not following the court order. I walked into court and within 15 minutes everything was settled following the court order. Ex actually had a propasal that followed the court order. My petition stated she wasn't following the order. The judge looked a little confused.