Waiting

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all,

Newer to the boards.  My full background is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=222314.0 

My wife has recently been diagnosed with BPD.  She had been cheating on me, I found out and confronted her.  The entire truth is that if I had been an excellent husband and father and she had cheated on me, I would have left without hesitation.  However, that's not the case.  I have not been the greatest father/husband emotionally.  We've been married for about 7 years.  I never understand her mood swings, constant sleeping, failure to launch, etc. 

It's two months later.  We haven't had sex in over weeks.  We've both had surgeries during this time which doesn't help.  It has taken her a while to really focus on what caused the boarderline problems in the first place = her parents.  Her mother has HORRIBLE depression which caused her to sleep and neglect my wife during 90% of her childhood.  My wife is going to counseling once a week now to work on this stuff, but it seems like it's not enough.  The time in between can be devastating for my feelings.  I feel extremely lonely.  I'm literally at the point of considering cheating to get sex and find someone who enjoys my company. 

There is such a beautiful person, inside and out locked away in there.  Now though, she's turned into some sort of monster... . reminds me of the pregnancy days.  In the past I was never really there for her emotionally, and it devastated her.  She would have panic attacks and I would just look at her or walk away.  It completely freaked me out.   I was young and stupid and didn't realize the severity of what was going on.  Many other things of which I lost my temper and yelled and criticized her.  She brings it up during arguments.

Back in the day, I was depressed and withheld sex from her (doesn't make sense I know).  I never dealt with my problems, and it was only that learning about the cheating that I woke up.  I'm not drinking anymore and I'm working on my own issues.  My problem now is that it seems like I don't have patience and she's started to hurt my feelings.

Now I'm having panic attacks when I try to talk and reason with her and she is giving me a taste of my own medicine.  I know that we're not in a good spot because we're not having sex or feeling safe with each other.  I feel like it's always me asking to hang out or have sex.  She cheated on me, but I'm over it.  I just want my beautiful wife back.  We both made mistakes, but this is here and now.  This is our future.  We have three children, and I just want them to be raised in a happy home.  I get that what I did was wrong.  99% of my actions were done when I was drinking heavily.  I've apologized so much for my hurtful actions that there's literally nothing that i can do now.  It's a waiting game.  She's either going to have to get over it or this isn't going to work out.

Her apologies are few and far between of course.  I just want to cave in and say that I'll do whatever it takes, and it feels like she really isn't putting too much effort into resolving this crap with her parents.  I had a terrible childhood being raised in and out of fosterhomes, but it's not something that's on my mind 24/7.  I just don't get it. 

I am 28 years old and I want sex from my wife!  I want companionship.  She said yesterday that her sexual drive is gone.  She used to drink and smoke marijuana, which caused her to get horny.  Now that's all gone.   I'm getting tired of asking for sex... . it's ridiculous.  I want her to jump my bones too... . only it's not happening. 

She has literally told me that I talk about her/our problems way too much.  If the issues were resolved, then I wouldn't be talking about them!  Seeing a counselor once a week for an hour isn't enough (in my opinion).  I know that I can't convince her to work on it... . doing so only causes her to get defensive and finger point.  So what can I do other than wait?

Thanks for the support and comments!

[fatherofthree]

Hi all,

Newer to the boards.  My full background is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=222314.0 

My wife has recently been diagnosed with BPD.  She had been cheating on me, I found out and confronted her.  The entire truth is that if I had been an excellent husband and father and she had cheated on me, I would have left without hesitation.  However, that's not the case.  I have not been the greatest father/husband emotionally.  We've been married for about 7 years.  I never understand her mood swings, constant sleeping, failure to launch, etc. 

It's two months later.  We haven't had sex in over weeks.  We've both had surgeries during this time which doesn't help.  It has taken her a while to really focus on what caused the boarderline problems in the first place = her parents.  Her mother has HORRIBLE depression which caused her to sleep and neglect my wife during 90% of her childhood.  My wife is going to counseling once a week now to work on this stuff, but it seems like it's not enough.  The time in between can be devastating for my feelings.  I feel extremely lonely.  I'm literally at the point of considering cheating to get sex and find someone who enjoys my company. 

There is such a beautiful person, inside and out locked away in there.  Now though, she's turned into some sort of monster... . reminds me of the pregnancy days.  In the past I was never really there for her emotionally, and it devastated her.  She would have panic attacks and I would just look at her or walk away.  It completely freaked me out.   I was young and stupid and didn't realize the severity of what was going on.  Many other things of which I lost my temper and yelled and criticized her.  She brings it up during arguments.

Back in the day, I was depressed and withheld sex from her (doesn't make sense I know).  I never dealt with my problems, and it was only that learning about the cheating that I woke up.  I'm not drinking anymore and I'm working on my own issues.  My problem now is that it seems like I don't have patience and she's started to hurt my feelings.

Now I'm having panic attacks when I try to talk and reason with her and she is giving me a taste of my own medicine.  I know that we're not in a good spot because we're not having sex or feeling safe with each other.  I feel like it's always me asking to hang out or have sex.  She cheated on me, but I'm over it.  I just want my beautiful wife back.  We both made mistakes, but this is here and now.  This is our future.  We have three children, and I just want them to be raised in a happy home.  I get that what I did was wrong.  99% of my actions were done when I was drinking heavily.  I've apologized so much for my hurtful actions that there's literally nothing that i can do now.  It's a waiting game.  She's either going to have to get over it or this isn't going to work out.

Her apologies are few and far between of course.  I just want to cave in and say that I'll do whatever it takes, and it feels like she really isn't putting too much effort into resolving this crap with her parents.  I had a terrible childhood being raised in and out of fosterhomes, but it's not something that's on my mind 24/7.  I just don't get it. 

I am 28 years old and I want sex from my wife!  I want companionship.  She said yesterday that her sexual drive is gone.  She used to drink and smoke marijuana, which caused her to get horny.  Now that's all gone.   I'm getting tired of asking for sex... . it's ridiculous.  I want her to jump my bones too... . only it's not happening. 

She has literally told me that I talk about her/our problems way too much.  If the issues were resolved, then I wouldn't be talking about them!  Seeing a counselor once a week for an hour isn't enough (in my opinion).  I know that I can't convince her to work on it... . doing so only causes her to get defensive and finger point.  So what can I do other than wait?

Thanks for the support and comments!

[fatherofthree]

We haven't had sex in over 4 weeks.

[woodsposse]

 

First off know this - you are at the right place.

I won't offer advice, or point out links to read... . I'm positive someone else will do that very shortly.  But what I want to do is put a thought in your head by sharing some part of my life.

I went through the exact same thing you are gong through.  EXACTLY.  More than once, I should say.

I too thought "if only I had done this." or "If I hadn't done that."  or "if I could just... . "

Truth is, none of those things would have worked - and may still not.  In one marriage (when I was around your age), I drank way too much, we had our 3 children, there was infidelity and I did go outside to find some comfort.  I beat myself up for it for years until she admitted to her own string of affairs... . then I simulteaneously felt relieved (because I thought I was going crazy) - and disgusted (why would she put me through all of this AND make it so I felt guilty).

So in my next r/s I was very vigilant not to step outside of the r/s for any reason.  If I did drink too much, I got that under control.  I worked.  I worked very hard.  I got my kids from my first marriage and raised them.  I put up with the smear campaign and parental alienation and all the bad things I had to put up with to get my girls and be a good father... . and you know what - in my second marriage I wasn't "there" enough.

I was too busy at work.  I was too stern on keeping the house strees free and clean... . I was too much into having work, family, my own hobbies and interests, and not spending enough time with my wife (who was very much overly needy and clingy and diagnosed PD).  I'd be there when her anxieties flared and helped "talk her down" when she get worked up in a tizzy - most times I was at work when she would call so I had to try and balance a freaking out spouse AND work at the same time.

In the end... . my second wife spiraled out of control, started with her affairs (and always I dealt with the cutting, and suicide talk, and the world is out to get her and everything is everyone's fault).

Bottom line of what I'm suggesting to you is - yes... . you have your issues to own.  So own them.

But there is absolutely nothing you could have done that would have been good enough on it's own to avoid where you are now.  If your spouse is BPD... . the only thing you could do is to follow some links (on the right) - and learn about the disorder... . learn about how you fit into the larger scheme... . and perhaps learn some better tools to help support her.

You mention your drinking... . it's kinda like getting help with that.  Sure you an just stop drinking... . but unless you an touchbase with the underlying reasons why that happens... . it is a possibility to keep happening unless you get help.

I'm glad you are here.  A good source of help is found here.

You are not alone.

[fatherofthree]

Woods Posse,

Thanks for the response.  I have been educating myself on BPD... . this site and tools are amazing.  I've actually started using them.  I was thinking about my post and how to summarize how I feel.  Last night, after I had the panic attack, I apologized to her and said that I had no idea how bad it was.  I asked her if she had any compassion for me in her heart.  I've always been the strong / stoic one from my past.  I'm a combat Marine... . I've seen some nasty stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan.  This is 1000x's worse than that!  She replied that she does have compassion, but not empathy for me.

My big question is the fear of abandonment with BPDs.  She literally is blaming me for not being there for her, or not supporting her / "stomping on her when she was in a bad spot", then why would she want space now?  I think that she really doesn't want space, and that she's losing control inside.  She has said that she can't deal with her parent stuff and my stuff at the same time.  Meaning that her parent stuff is killing our happiness and day-to-day lives. 

I asked her if she was depressed and she said I don't want to talk about it.  How can you go for a week without dealing with this stuff only to talk to a counselor for an hour.  It's clearly not enough.  I have amazing insurance.  It is literally free for her to go talk to the PhD.  I can't convince her to go more often. 

As for my problems in the relationship now, they only come out when we're not doing good.  I used to have an amazing relationship with her father.  I told them about their daughter cheating on me, and forwarded the photos at their request as soon as I found out.  Her parents sent her an email disowning her.  This lasted for a couple of weeks until I got involved and told her dad to cut it out.  This was extremely unhealthy for his daughter, and if he loved her, he should rescind.  He wrote her an email that she didn't read.  She refuses to. 

Just this week, she and her father spoke for the first time.  Apparently he told her that he loved her and missed her.  They used to have a very strong relationship but now that's broken.  What blows my mind is that my wife doesn't see how her actions (infidelity and lying for so long) caused pain to others.  It's like she thinks that the entire world is out to get her and push her down.  It's quite the opposite.  I know that she was hurting.  I was a large part of the problem.  So now what?  Focus on the past or move on?  She's in the past for sure.  I'm finally getting over everything, and would gladly take a healthy future with her over the pain from the past. 

I was keeping a relationship with her parents.  This outraged my wife, who obviously has serious issues with them to begin with.  I didn't realize it at the time, but I should have ended that relationship weeks ago.  In fact, I did write her parents an email about a week or two ago and said that I'm sorry for involving them, and that I choose my wife over having a relationship with them.  I cut off all communications.  I said that it probably won't be permanent, but it wasn't healthy for anyone at this point.

Now though, my wife is saying that she "can't trust me" because she thinks I'm still going to contact her parents.  Screw that.  I want her back.  I don't want this conflict!  Literally, I've dropped my support network and I only talk to my step mom about this stuff.  How long does it take to convince a BPD that you're serious? 

[an0ught]

Hi fatherofthree,

I have been educating myself on BPD... . this site and tools are amazing.  I've actually started using them.  I was thinking about my post and how to summarize how I feel.  Last night, after I had the panic attack, I apologized to her and said that I had no idea how bad it was.  I asked her if she had any compassion for me in her heart.  I've always been the strong / stoic one from my past.  I'm a combat Marine... . I've seen some nasty stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan.  This is 1000x's worse than that!  She replied that she does have compassion, but not empathy for me.

being strong and stoic won't be of help in light of overwhelming distress. I know you consider yourself strong but you also admit this is 1000x more. If you are honest - it may be overwhelming. It may be too much. But you are stoic - you file it away. What can be a useful survival tactic can when used too much turn into a liability by creating disassociated memories. All - your combat history, your stoic approach to stress, your description of the situation as 1000x worse and your panic attacks all point to PTSD. Pure strength won't help you then - you need other techniques and possibly professional help. A good first step may be to educate yourself e.g. with The Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Sourcebook - Glenn R. Schiraldi, Ph.D..

My big question is the fear of abandonment with BPDs.  She literally is blaming me for not being there for her, or not supporting her / "stomping on her when she was in a bad spot", then why would she want space now?  I think that she really doesn't want space, and that she's losing control inside.  She has said that she can't deal with her parent stuff and my stuff at the same time.  Meaning that her parent stuff is killing our happiness and day-to-day lives. 

Best handled with validation. Can't fix it but will sooth it.

I asked her if she was depressed and she said I don't want to talk about it.  How can you go for a week without dealing with this stuff only to talk to a counselor for an hour.  It's clearly not enough.  I have amazing insurance.  It is literally free for her to go talk to the PhD.  I can't convince her to go more often. 

Talk won't fix much. She needs to learn skills.

As for my problems in the relationship now, they only come out when we're not doing good.  I used to have an amazing relationship with her father.  I told them about their daughter cheating on me, and forwarded the photos at their request as soon as I found out.  Her parents sent her an email disowning her.  This lasted for a couple of weeks until I got involved and told her dad to cut it out.  This was extremely unhealthy for his daughter, and if he loved her, he should rescind.  He wrote her an email that she didn't read.  She refuses to. 

Well, while understandable this may not have been the wisest move. Shame is a difficult emotion to process and that added to her load. The distressed relationship with her father may well have added to her sense of abandonment.

Just this week, she and her father spoke for the first time.  Apparently he told her that he loved her and missed her.  They used to have a very strong relationship but now that's broken.  What blows my mind is that my wife doesn't see how her actions (infidelity and lying for so long) caused pain to others.  It's like she thinks that the entire world is out to get her and push her down.  It's quite the opposite.  I know that she was hurting.  I was a large part of the problem.  So now what?  Focus on the past or move on?  She's in the past for sure.  I'm finally getting over everything, and would gladly take a healthy future with her over the pain from the past. 

I was keeping a relationship with her parents.  This outraged my wife, who obviously has serious issues with them to begin with.  I didn't realize it at the time, but I should have ended that relationship weeks ago.  In fact, I did write her parents an email about a week or two ago and said that I'm sorry for involving them, and that I choose my wife over having a relationship with them.  I cut off all communications.  I said that it probably won't be permanent, but it wasn't healthy for anyone at this point.

Yeah, pwBPD often have difficult relationships with parents. But then they often have also difficult parents and that may not be so obvious from the outside. Your relationship with her dad may be a bit too close - you may be sharing too much or

and forwarded the photos at their request as soon as I found out

he may be too involved because he tends not to have a good sense of boundaries.

Now though, my wife is saying that she "can't trust me" because she thinks I'm still going to contact her parents.  Screw that.  I want her back.  I don't want this conflict!  Literally, I've dropped my support network and I only talk to my step mom about this stuff.  

Again, validation - disappointment, lack of trust etc... Possibly also an apology if you feel it would be appropriate (quality matters, too much repetition would be JADE).

How long does it take to convince a BPD that you're serious?

Trust is quickly lost and hard to build. Talking does little to build it - doing does. Right now there is limited trust on both sides and it will take time to repair. So for two reasons you may want to focus on validation - first she is like in her pregnancy days i.e. very emotional - second validation is a connecting move.