How does Christianity play into how to deal with BPD?

[formflier]

So... some of my first counselors were actually pastors... . they tried but were not equipped and didn't understand.  I didn't either until I learned about BPD a couple months ago... . now the world kinda makes sense... . in an odd way.

Anyway... . I am a fairly conservative Christian guy.  "Bearing false witness" against someone is a big deal to me.  That is what my wife seems to do all the time now.

"Turning the other cheek" does seem to be working well to keep things from escalating.

However... . it feels weird to go to church with someone and listen to them profess all kinds of things and then turn around and toss all those principles out the window to accuse me of this that and the other.

So... if there are any guys out there that have dealt with this I would appreciate some insight.

We moved about 8 months ago... . "everyone" at our last church knew that we were doing marriage counseling but they all that it was just normal disagreements we were working through.

So far I don't believe anyone at our new church suspects anything... . I certainly haven't brought it up.

Thoughts?

[LuckyNicki]

This one is tough as I am still trying to figure this one out.  I've spoken to a couple churches about this already.  My undiagosed exgf professes to be a believer but all of her actions does not show her to be a believer at all.  But much of her actions may be due to BPD.

As a believer, I am well aware that struggling with sin is one thing but to be manipulative, intentional and premediated lying... . is beyond "struggling", eventually hurting someone else and then lying about it is definitely something else.

But then when I read about BPD, it's hard to say that they are fully malicious so it makes me wonder the same about your post. 

[Mike_confused]

my BPDw is born again Evangelical Christian.   I am just a regular member of Christianity.   She wears her Christianity on her sleeve, to the point of ensuring that she regularly informs me of my faults and weaknesses.  I on the other hand see no reason to have any further discussions with her about her faults ever - I am punished severely for doing so.

[maxen]

As a believer, I am well aware that struggling with sin is one thing but to be manipulative, intentional and premediated lying... . is beyond "struggling", eventually hurting someone else and then lying about it is definitely something else.

hear, hear.

[mywifecrazy]

Interesting topic.  Are you sure your pwBPD are true Christian believers?

I thought my uBPDxw was a Christian but it just turned out to be MIRRORING!  After the divorce I noticed that she stopped going to church completely. I asked her why she no longer goes.  Her answer: "I just went to church because I knew it was important to you". Really? For 20 years you FAKED IT?

[Steph]

BPD is a mental disorder and what everyone is talking about are the symptoms... There is no shame in being married to someone with BPD, even tho it may feel like nothng makes sense... until you truly understand BPD and how it works.

   As far as faith goes,she is a child of God as are we all. Her illness and its symptoms are what hurts and so it is important that you learn all you can about BPD and be prepared to take care of yourself. being in therapy for your own mental health can help. Most pastors arent equipped to deal with the level of therapy needed, but most are prepared to offer referrals. It makes sense for you to go.

   Also, most here have found that being in marriage counseling with someone who has untreated BPD does not work, since the person who has untreated BPD lacks the emotional skills to manage the hard work of the therapy for the marriage.

   Hang in there!

[maxen]

Her illness and its symptoms are what hurts

in my case her deceit and adultery and her sadistic arrogance about her deceit and adultery hurt too. that she openly declares to "love Jesus", that her brother is also an adulterer, that in both cases it was the other party (viz, yrs. truly and her brother's wife) who were to blame, and that her father is a bishop in the UMC give me things to work though, shall we say.

it can't be said often enough, people who don't have BPD are people too.

[Mike_confused]

People who don't have BPD are people too.

That is actually the most useful thing I have read in a long long time.  We all have made significant efforts to learn about BPD, to be understanding toward those who suffer, to validate them, etc.

A little validation for those of us that are NON would be damn nice.  It is a pitfall of being married to  a spouse with BPD in that we immerse ourselves in coping with the BPD issues to the point where we lose ourselves anyway - exactly what we are trying to avoid by becoming educated about and dealing with BPD.

Everything has a point of diminishing returns.

[Perez]

Both my wife and I are practicing Catholics.  I think in general my wife has done a pretty good job of transmitting our faith to our kids.  She also tends to treat people she is not close to well.  Her faith and our shared outlook on life is one of characteristics that attracted me to her.  The BPD behavior sure clashes with our Christian faith.  She has a total blind spot for her behavior towards myself, and to a lesser extent members of our family.  We have been to all sorts of Christian counseling, with little fruit to show.

As nons, we practice mercy and forbearance.  it is really hard.

[max101]

All I can say is wow. My exgf is very religious (Catholic) and from the begging of our relationship she gave me immense (and I mean immense) pressure over of level of belief and commitment to the church.

I do not go to church every Sunday but she does and she would go crazy if I did not go to mass. This was however not the biggest problem for me, what bothered and surprised me was that she was always in church and critical of those that did not attend but was probably the most judgmental person ever. Criticizing my past decisions,friends, relationships, ordering me to refer to an ex girlfriend as "whore", slapping me, calling me names.

I always thought this was so hypocritical, surely my "not going to mass" was less of an issue in the eyes of God than her horrible, rude approach towards me.

I contacted a well know youth-priest in my country and he told me that according to our religion I have to support and cherish her, no matter what.

To me this is a serious sign of stupidity by his part because God wants us to love ourselves as well, or am I wrong?

And you know what the best part is? She broke up with me, for several reasons, but probably the biggest, the fact that I have a genetic disease, which could lead to my kids having some physical and mental issues. Wonder what the priest has to say about that? 

[reluctanthusband]

WhooWeeeee,

So I was lead to the lord by my wife then gf(13+years ago).  Then I get stationed over seas without her and our daughter and what happens? anc you say it with me AN AFAIR.  and I didnt find out for almost 9 years isn't that AWESOME.  Of course it was all my fault for making her emotionaly compromised yep!

So what has happend to me is that she is using our faith against me for not wanting to leave our church of 4 years because she Blacked every one at our old church.  I am navigating this mess everyday.

[nursemyBPD]

IMHO, this aspect has been a double edged sword for me, during my 30 yr marriage to UBPDh. My Husband is a Church Deacon and Sunday school teacher, and DURING his Godly service I see and detect TRUE Spiritual sincerity in him, in other words I don't feel he is faking it or being hypocritical in THAT MOMENT.  However over time and whilst in the midst of one of his episodes of dysregulation, gas lighting, and being painted black & white, it blares of hypocrisy.  I had to pray intensely over these internal conflicts & sought discernment of what to do with these thoughts and feelings. That discernment eventually led me into varying stages of dealing more effectively with him.

   In contrast my sincere Christian beliefs softened my heart, and I feel the need to repeatedly forgive, and show compassion, and stay married. I felt that is what God would have me endure for a time. I thought the end result would look differently but I have to say it is still a good and necessary action FOR ME. Even though the current culmination of these conflicting feelings, has led me to separate from my UBPDu for the first time in 30 years. I believe the Bible in Isaiah 63, that he will give me beauty for Ashes. I do not cast judgement on my Husband, I hated the bad behavior, but I Love Him. That is not to excuse the bad behavior , and mistakes, and outright maliciousness, and I held him accountable for those behaviors. In my daily prayers I pray for my husbands mind, I could not fix it, but God can, if he chooses to. Let Go & Let God has been my Mantra for quite some time.  In summary, hold fast to your Christianity, it will not only equip you through the chaos but it will sustain you through the long haul, and provide a soft place to fall. We cannot fix them, we cannot continue being verbally & emotionally abused indefinitely, we cannot hold onto that kind of resentment and despair for long, we MUST forgive, in ORDER to live the life we desire. I will continue to Pray for him from the outside.

[GopherAgent]

Wow... . Good Topic

I probably write a book on this subject as my Christian wife has made "religion" a point of contention between us.

The unfortunate thing here is that she has used her form of religion as a way to bludgeon me into compliance with God's word and compare me to other men who worship God with their wives and how unfaithful and unlearned I am compared to them because I don't read and pray with her to her satisfaction. Yet, when I try to share my outlook on religious things with her they are questioned by her because she measures my outward signs of religious expression as nonexistent and thus I am less spiritual of a person because she can't see my expressions of worship are as valid as hers are.

My wife came from a pastors home which has only made this a larger issue than I could have ever imagined it would be.

I seriously struggle to have any spiritual expression or even spend time investigating religious concepts because I know that any thing I say or do related to Christian expression will become a point of issue to her because to her I am not spiritual enough for her.

Yet, when she rages and threatens suicide and she is asked how these actions line up with his Word, I am told that I forced her into these actions because of my unbelief and lack of consistent spiritual input. I am literally told that she doesn't believe I've ever been a sincere Christian and that I need to be broken before Him.

I am told repeatedly that if only I had followed God's commands to be the head of the household as mentioned in scripture that all of our problems would have been different.

We never talk about her responses to the relationship from God's perspective because of all my un-faithfulness and un-repentance to Him. Boy, she sure can be his oracle about how much of a disappointment I am to her because of my lack of spiritual leadership... . but just give a hint to her that she is slightly out of tune with his leadings and all HELL breaks loose.

And please, don't get me started with all the crap the Church espouses about marital relations becase so much of that is just control and fear expressed about where we are supposed to be according to their interpretation of what they think men and women are supposed to do according to God in a relationship.

Frankly, God and his values are used in such a way as to control relationships and build walls between people where they should not be. Using Christianity as a weapon to bludgeon and maim your loved one, supposedly provided to you by God, is a foolish and dangerous way to express His Love.

I still believe in Him... . But I surely don't see how He moves in my loved ones life and how He heals her and her illness. She uses it as an excuse to judge my motivations and love for her because of some unrealistic and ill perceived belief that I am, through Him, supposed to supply all of her security and love and earthly things. And then when things are really bad... . she blames Him for all her problems.

And then to sit there and tell me that only you have the inside scoop on what God has told you is wrong with me and that the big judgment day is coming for me if I don't get broken before him is so insulting and so manipulative and hurtful I just want to never hear anything about Him again. This really makes me wonder if there is anything to this thing at all at times.

Yes... . My faith is tested. Every day that I am with her.

So... . What's he trying to tell me?

Opppss... . Wait for it! Only my wife has that insight. Let me go ask her.

See ya!

[Mike_confused]

My BPDw has always treated those not close to her with style and grace.   Then there is me.   I saw above that some fella was criticized by his BPD SO for past relationships, perceived level of faith, and so on.

I have had much the same experience.   She lets everyone know that she is far more Christian and more of a believer than I am, as if it is a competition.  Now that I have written that, most things with her are a competition.  So I laugh and let her win.  The mere fact that she makes a competition out of her faith in God tells me there is more work.

She also has criticized me severely for past relationships, including my previous marriage - a marriage that ended before I ever knew her.  Talk about judgmental!   I no longer bite on her crap; I let my BPDw know that she is free to think whatever she wants about me.  I also let her know that I do not give a flying flock about her opinions regarding my past.   This bends her out of shape.  It has also almost completely stopped her judgmental crap.

[Landslide2014]

I am conflicted. I have become extremely spiritual in this past year and a half. Part of me believes that my uBPDH is mirroring.  He seems to accuse me of not being spiritual, especially with his recently (apparent) renewed commitment to church even though I have been he one practicing and attending church regularly. He's commitment does not seem genuine to me, it appears to be fake.  It doesn't stop there, lately, (at the point when we have come to the end of our 21+ year marriage) it feels like he is shoving religion down my throat. I no longer attend my weekly mass as I had been doing, in part because I do not want to attend with him and also because it is a reminder that his biblical quotes and suggestions of how I could better receive "the plan of God" are nothing short of hypocritical. And while I excuse this to some degree because of this disorder and think he really believes it, it is also a reminder that this interaction is toxic making. While on the subject of religion, would this disorder fall into "in sickness and in health"?  I have heard my priest clearly say that when abuse is involved that we must take measures to protect ourselves (as did my T).

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

I probably write a book on this subject as my Christian wife has made "religion" a point of contention between us.

The unfortunate thing here is that she has used her form of religion as a way to bludgeon me into compliance with God's word and compare me to other men who worship God with their wives and how unfaithful and unlearned I am compared to them because I don't read and pray with her to her satisfaction. Yet, when I try to share my outlook on religious things with her they are questioned by her because she measures my outward signs of religious expression as nonexistent and thus I am less spiritual of a person because she can't see my expressions of worship are as valid as hers are.

My uBPDw uses our different religious views as 'proof' she can't trust me... . after all if I don't see eye to eye on her say... . gay marriage then how obviously I don't understand the bible and what's to stop me from screwing around.

There is no topic she's more black/white on.  She'll research for weeks a book we use in sunday school, and dismiss it because the author has some connection to someone she doesn't like, no matter how inconsequential the connection is. 

The only reason we've been able to stay at the same church is she won't go to a different one without me because then she won't know what I'm hearing in the sermons and she can't set them straight. 

[WalrusGumboot]

formflyer, when you turn the other cheek, how are you dealing with the resentment and bitterness?

Most church leaders are not equipped to counsel effectively on the subject of mental illness. I'm sure they would view my failed marriage with my xBPDw as a spiritual lacking on my part, especially if they knew her, because she could quote scripture better than most preachers I have known.

Is there a way you can go to marriage counseling outside of church? There are many Christian counselors who understand mental illness and keep their sessions sensitive to your beliefs.

I think the lying issue needs to be dealt with as soon as possible as a marriage that lacks trust isn't much of one at all. It's a big deal.

WG

[reluctanthusband]

WG,

As we were going to a GOOD Christian Family Counselor a few years ago and stopped because he unfortunately died, I found that you need a Diagnosing therapist that works on the issue.  Although the CFC was the one that said that she was BPD, all it did was slightly mask her symptoms.  I noticed all of the little things that told me in my heart that there was no progress she was just wearing a mask. 

I am now seeking a non Christian therapist that will get her into some therapy they make them work on it if they stay.  My BPD is just as bad as she was before the previous 2 years of counseling and in that she told me that the counselor had said I was Narcisistic and Autistic! As a regular person that wants to better himself I asked the counselor if I was and he was floored that she said that.  He told me that he did not say that.

I hate this knowing that there is an issue and that she resists help.  She just spent a whole bunch of money on antiques, without talking about it and asking(She brings in a fraction of the household monies).  Then Blasts me and I blast back at her about all of the little things I ask for but she says no.  she gets all flustered and says she cant do it any more and she is done!  Well walk then! Im not holding you back.  If you think it is better for you then go!  Ruin our life and be selfish because I have stayed in an unhealthy relationship for too long and sacrificed too much to have this be blamed on me!

[gotbushels]

... .

The only reason we've been able to stay at the same church is she won't go to a different one without me because then she won't know what I'm hearing in the sermons and she can't set them straight. 

Wow. Just wow at all the sharing in this thread. I'm Catholic and used to wish my uBPDgf was sometimes as well. I never really gave it much thought as it's one of those "could have beens". Having discovered BPD and reading about you guys' experiences here, I can definitely see that it could definitely go both ways. In fact it would probably be used as a weapon like Gopher's experience.

Honestly, my heartfelt sympathy to you maxen. I would rather get thrashed than be subject to adultery.

I would HATE to have BPD behaviour used against me and have that coupled with throwing 'the Book' at me. I had an ex who was a Christian and definitely made things seem like a competition like Mike_confused. Pretty ridiculous. She conveyed to me that she was "more holy" because she went to church more often. And that was without BPD.

One thing that helps me sometimes is my old cell group had members that used to simplify the 10 commandments into 2: love God, and love others as you love yourself. For BPD, I think keep in mind that you can't change a person if she doesn't want to change.

My ex told me she wanted me to have 'limitless' love for me like God, that was despite the fact that she would throw tantrums and use break ups as a mechanism to get more attention, I know this because she told me. I think you really need to be wary because being a Christian, I feel I would have a special vulnerability to getting abused.

For example, to me, I feel gratitude that God has given me a lot. I feel that to repay that kindness that I should pay in-kind. I suffered from cutting myself and suicide 10+ years ago, had the support to recover from it, and feel I need to repay in kind. I think it's important not to let your faith override your obligation to protect yourself. Nons are God's children just as the BPDs are, and if your SO is hitting your limit you owe it to protect yourself too.

I've relied on God a lot in my relationship and I can only imagine the hardship you guys must be going through to have your faith questioned and attacked BPD-style.

I had my faith seriously questioned by our relationship. God seemed to answer the vast majority of my prayers with her. Yet, at one time, I got into a fight with my uBPDgf, yelled at God by asking Him what He wanted from my relationship, and that same fight I got punched in the face by her. Caught me completely off-guard and left me in a shock as blood flowed freely into my hands. 

I guess one could look at that as a wake-up call from God that I need to really think about what I want from my relationship and to what extent I'm willing to give to it with this person. I sometimes think that my mission with her is to reveal to her that it IS possible to live a peaceful life free of BPD-symptoms (I don't bring up BPD anymore) as I believe I'm the one that's seriously made her grow in her life, and paid the price for making her look inward instead of blaming everyone else. I'm happy I've done that for her.

I think those of you who are seeing a pastor or religious coach... . definitely look up a proper qualified T or P. I think that no matter how faithful these teachers are, with all due respect, they are far from qualified to handle the BP and you unless they've had the proper training.

God bless guys... .

[WalrusGumboot]

My BPD is just as bad as she was before the previous 2 years of counseling and in that she told me that the counselor had said I was Narcisistic and Autistic!

Over the years as a member of this site, it is a definite minority of pwBPDs that enter into therapy, stick with it, and show measurable improvements without relapsing, but, it does happen. Mine never would even hear of it over the course of 23 years.

Whether your W goes or not, you should make a point of going yourself. When I was a new member here, I had everybody keep telling me to start taking care of myself. At first I wasn't sure what that meant. What I know now is that it meant getting my mind settled and in order so that instead of reacting to every dysfunctional moment with a "fight or flight" response, I can start making rational decisions on whether I wanted to keep the relationship going or not along with minimizing the damage.

By the way, I heard "I am done" a million times. They aren't done. It's all about them maintaining control in the relationship.

[mywifecrazy]

Oh yeah I almost forgot this one. My uBPDxw would always throw in my face "You think You're so Holier than Thow".  She used it when projecting!

[Turkish]

BPD is a mental disorder and what everyone is talking about are the symptoms... There is no shame in being married to someone with BPD, even tho it may feel like nothng makes sense... until you truly understand BPD and how it works.

   As far as faith goes,she is a child of God as are we all.

My Christian counselor (the family counselor I was abandoned by my uBPDx to after only one joint session) reminds me of this all of the time. It's sad that the dissolution of my family is what led me back to church (over the years, I figured it was too much drama to get ready every Sunday). Mine is a searcher. Dabbled with Buddhism. Now she started bringing the kids to my church on her weekends. She surprised me that she is doing this. She gets peace from the worship portion. Hears the message, but doesn't get it (she once told me that her distrust of authority is what keeps her heart hard). All in all, I think it's a good thing and I won't interfere, even if I really don't want to see her.

Confusions can be rampant, especially so with a pwBPD. Mine wrote in her journal thanking God for both me and her fallback lover being in her lives, as if he were sent to her. He professing love of God and quoting bible verses on his FB page makes it all the more confusing. There was nothing God-like at all in contributing to the destruction of my family, and the now forced half time abandonment of our children by the other parent (joint custody). If I ever have to meet him, my first question would be, ":)o you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Yes? That's good; so do the devils, and tremble!"

Regarding the professions of faith, faux or not (and who are we to be The Judge, only God knows what is in their hearts), actions bespeak the truth.

The letters to the churches in the NT are full of admonitions of the bad behaviors of true believers, heretical teachings, and even the calling out of those in the churches who were really not of the flock. Any of you that are more involved in your churches know that the Bodies are full of divisions, politics, and un-Christ-like people. Nothing has changed in two thousand years.

[MammaMia]

I wonder if pwBPD are mirroring those around them in church.  Once they leave the confines of others who believe and act religiously, they revert to former behavior.  Remember, they live "in the moment" and they can act "normal" to others who do not know them well.  In that regard, church is a perfect setting because people do not get too close.

For pwBPD who seem fanatic about religion, I also wonder if they perceive themselves as superior in God's eyes.  No one else can understand religion as they do, and they see themselves as perfect Christians who follow Biblical teachings to the letter.  Because of this, they feel empowered to use their religious beliefs as a tool to demean others.  

Many people wBPD do have a religious connection.  There is little doubt about that.  But, it is not the kind of connection nons have.  Their beliefs are formed within the scope of having BPD.

[Mike_confused]

Turkish,

did you say she was bringing the kids to your church on her weekend when she would not have done this in the past?   If that is the case, I have to tell you-----she is in some way trying to recycle with you.  As screwed up she is trying to get you back, as screwed up and illogical as that may sound.

[Turkish]

Turkish,

did you say she was bringing the kids to your church on her weekend when she would not have done this in the past?   If that is the case, I have to tell you-----she is in some way trying to recycle with you.  As screwed up she is trying to get you back, as screwed up and illogical as that may sound.

I started bringing DS4 there two weeks after she broke it off with me, but that same morning I found evidence of her cheating on her phone (cheating, because we were never married... . one of those permanent engagement things. After a while, I knew this would happen due to her pathological aversion to marriage, so I put off even going down to the court house to seal it legally, though we talked about it from time to time).

I don't think this is a recycle. Since she associated me with her father's abandonment (she flat out told me this after it all blew up), she still thinks of me as the mature father figure in her life, and is trying to keep me in that role. She is seeking my approval of her "trying to be a better mom" now. She used that phrase with me last month.

I can empathize with that, but pretending we are some new, weird modern family is unhealthy for all of us, IMO. She asked me to go to lunch with her and the kids last week. I declined. She wants to pretend we are still like a "together" family for the sake of the kids, but I think it is more for her stability. She is still hopelessly enamoured of the young narcissistic guy she fell in love (need) with. I've been told of what she posts on her FB. I know she attaches strongly to one man at a time. There won't be any recycle as long as he is around. She really thinks that she will be with him forever (so she wrote back in September). If I ever meet him, I'll tell him he's #3 whom she's thought of like that. I was #2, thouhg I never bought into her juvenile romantic fantasies, which is why she's cycled back to a younger man (8 years her junior) with strong narc traits... . her pattern before me, a brief fling with a probable NPD, and before that #1. I'm 10 years older than she.

Despite the other guy's "spirituality" and Bible reading and verse quoting, I think she knows I'm more "real" as it were. She once told me when we were just dating that she was relieved she could be herself around me (as if she would play whatever fake part I desired?).

In any case, The kids do well at church, DS4 in Sunday school, which is a good stepping stone since we can't put him into preschool until the fall. uBPDx finds some peace there, though she has yet to show up there on my weekends, which tells me that only part of it is for her own spiritual well being. I introduced her to some of my friends there, and she actually picked up some material on women's Bible study there, which none of us prompted her to do. She also still feels guilty, which is the other part of bringing the kids there. The last part is to maintain a greater level of contact with me. When I finally convinced her that we needed to legally file a stipulation for custody and support, she actually wanted me to take the kids to church every Sunday. I said no one splits weekends like that, so that boundary prompted her to bring them herself. I didn't think she would do it.

She's WoE around me these days, which is an odd juxstaposition. I don't take advantage of it, just comfort. Overall, this may be one of those "God things" one never knows! Who am I to interfere in that?

[maxen]

Nothing has changed in two thousand years.

this is true, which leads me to question the theory in the first place.

[maxen]

Honestly, my heartfelt sympathy to you maxen. I would rather get thrashed than be subject to adulteery.

Thank you got bushels for that and for the rest of your very open post.

[gotbushels]

I started bringing DS4 there two weeks after she broke it off with me, but that same morning I found evidence of her cheating on her phone (cheating, because we were never married... . one of those permanent engagement things. After a while, I knew this would happen due to her pathological aversion to marriage, so I put off even going down to the court house to seal it legally, though we talked about it from time to time).

... .

Turkish, what excuse did she use for this behaviour, may I ask?

... .

The letters to the churches in the NT are full of admonitions of the bad behaviors of true believers, heretical teachings, and even the calling out of those in the churches who were really not of the flock. Any of you that are more involved in your churches know that the Bodies are full of divisions, politics, and un-Christ-like people. Nothing has changed in two thousand years.

I heard of a youth leader once who impregnated his girlfriend and dumped her upon discovering she was pregnant. She aborted and went back to him... . and lo and behold, pregnant again. 2 years after hearing that story, I am now beginning to see a 'route of events' as to how on earth people could let that happen, instead of "oh they're just madly irresponsible and crazy"... . could it be BPD? 

By the way, I heard "I am done" a million times. They aren't done. It's all about them maintaining control in the relationship.

Thanks WalrusGumboot. I just can't ingrain into my head that "I am done" means "no actually this is a defence mechanism, I want you, I'm just BPD" instead of the "I am done" it means for all the nons hahaha

It's the unpredictability that's the pain. It's kind of like a course in the military I did once, they would keep you in perpetual alertness for weeks and it wears you down until your mind feels like a blank board: ready to respond with only relevant thoughts in a given situation... . except that you're tired and worn as hell from all the readiness.

I think we should stop trying to figure out what pattern the BP is trying to follow at any given point, in order to respond, when dysregulation hits this point. Use the skills and do the tasks, if they don't work after a reasonable effort, then don't try and figure out 'their crazy'... . because crazy is deranged by definition... . and trying to extrapolate a deranged pattern requires a guess at arrangement... . there madness lies! That's the beauty of your 'I heard "I am done" a million times.' ... . it simplifies the simple mindset we should be in instead of getting overly involved in the crazy. If she is really done: fine.

[Samuel S.]

It is ironic that I saw your title here, because today, I saw a movie entitled "God's Not Dead". While I am not a Christian, all the ideas were quite good. One of many lines that got to me that can be applied to you and to all of us is the following. While I am paraphrasing, you'll get the idea. "We do not get our worth from someone else. We get our worth from ourselves". Of course, this is applicable to the Christian faith and to anyone else.

[Turkish]

I started bringing DS4 there two weeks after she broke it off with me, but that same morning I found evidence of her cheating on her phone (cheating, because we were never married... . one of those permanent engagement things. After a while, I knew this would happen due to her pathological aversion to marriage, so I put off even going down to the court house to seal it legally, though we talked about it from time to time).

... .

Turkish, what excuse did she use for this behaviour, may I ask?

"You abandoned me, it felt just like my father!"

After years of her warning me to not cheat on her. I think her father's uncovered affair (one of many over the years) was a huge trigger in her mirroring his behavior, though we never got a chance to discuss this. She did admit, in her one weekend of lucidity, of becoming like her father and hating herself for it. There is some truth to what she said. I abandoned her to follow her own moral compass and she showed me who she really was. Her mom noticed her juvenile behavior before I did. One baby, one toddler, I tried to change the dynamics of the r/s to become more mature. She wrote in one of her journals "I wasn't ready for this r/s!" Other things I found were more befitting a junior high schooler than a professional woman in her early 30s. She dud mature some in 6 years with me (the father/daughter dynamic), but she reverted to the abandoned child when I triggered her. She broke it off with me when I came home and collapsed in a chair, exhausted from working all weekend when I would rather have been home with my family. Me working weekends was rare, too, so it wasn't a pattern of mine. She already had her fall back lover lined up though. Months of Dissociation followed while she neglected the kids and our home, until she returned to her emotional baseline, still unstable, then thankfully moved out after 4 months of her juvenile r/s being all but thrown in my face.

I really hope she gets better. Faith is my spiritual gift. It enabled me to survive my childhood. Not for us getting back together (that would be a miracle of Biblical proportions), but for our children, and yes, for her.