My wife is completely dysregulated

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

"I have either hurt her and done things she has said, or I have exacerbated things with my own weakness with boundaries and mental issues."

You're not an expert in psychiatry.  No one could spend 24 hours a day trying to figure out how to placate a person with mental illness.  You're a superhero for getting this far.

Please let a therapist help you think of good solutions.

The hard part is I hear what a therapist says, I know what they say is true, but I cannot get accept it at my core. 

It is very similiar to my OCD.  I know that bad things are not happening to me because, say, I ate eggs that morning, it makes no sense, it is not real.  I know it is not real, but my mind will not let it go.  It still keeps nagging, and hammering on me.  The easiest thing is to just eat another egg to "make the sequence right".  Similiarly, I know the truth with my wife, but it keeps nagging that "maybe you cannot see the truth because you are ill.  maybe you are manipulating those around you so they see only your version"

last thing I want to be is unfair, but my logic tells me "if she can be so messed up mentally that she does not see the truth, then it would be rational to assume others, including myself could be so messed up mentally that we do not see the truth"

From a philosophical and logical standpoint, that is a possibility even if its only a 10% of chance.  I am not sure... I am not all there right now... working alot, I have not actually eaten a meal in nearly 3 days besides drank an Ensure.  Sleep is hard because its just nightmare of the same fighting and waking up in panic that she is going to come downstairs and yell at me more.

I want to go back in time... Past ten years have been hard.  Yea, I have had my wife been trouble, but even without that which consumes everything, it has been rough.  Two people I was very very close to, my grandparents both died.  My father and his father who owned a successful business for 50 years and was what I always wanted to go into, closed wiping out all their savings, because they guaranteed their their own assets for loans for the business.  Its hard seeing them go from millionaires to nothing. I feel badly for them

My brother in that 10 years has become HIV positive, my aunts and uncles, turned against my mother because she was left more in a will.  My mother divorced my stepfather, my father is constantly looking to me to get him money now. 

15 years ago, I had prospects for a great future.  Everyone in my family I loved was alive and close to each other.  Now, my family is fragmented and dead or suffering... I just wish I was a kid again.  I might have gotten bullied in school, but it was nothing compared to this

[hurthusband]

"I have either hurt her and done things she has said, or I have exacerbated things with my own weakness with boundaries and mental issues."

You're not an expert in psychiatry.  No one could spend 24 hours a day trying to figure out how to placate a person with mental illness.  You're a superhero for getting this far.

Please let a therapist help you think of good solutions.

The hard part is I hear what a therapist says, I know what they say is true, but I cannot get accept it at my core. 

It is very similiar to my OCD.  I know that bad things are not happening to me because, say, I ate eggs that morning, it makes no sense, it is not real.  I know it is not real, but my mind will not let it go.  It still keeps nagging, and hammering on me.  The easiest thing is to just eat another egg to "make the sequence right".  Similiarly, I know the truth with my wife, but it keeps nagging that "maybe you cannot see the truth because you are ill.  maybe you are manipulating those around you so they see only your version"

last thing I want to be is unfair, but my logic tells me "if she can be so messed up mentally that she does not see the truth, then it would be rational to assume others, including myself could be so messed up mentally that we do not see the truth"

From a philosophical and logical standpoint, that is a possibility even if its only a 10% of chance.  I am not sure... I am not all there right now... working alot, I have not actually eaten a meal in nearly 3 days besides drank an Ensure.  Sleep is hard because its just nightmare of the same fighting and waking up in panic that she is going to come downstairs and yell at me more.

I want to go back in time... Past ten years have been hard.  Yea, I have had my wife been trouble, but even without that which consumes everything, it has been rough.  Two people I was very very close to, my grandparents both died.  My father and his father who owned a successful business for 50 years and was what I always wanted to go into, closed wiping out all their savings, because they guaranteed their their own assets for loans for the business.  Its hard seeing them go from millionaires to nothing. I feel badly for them

My brother in that 10 years has become HIV positive, my aunts and uncles, turned against my mother because she was left more in a will.  My mother divorced my stepfather, my father is constantly looking to me to get him money now. 

15 years ago, I had prospects for a great future.  Everyone in my family I loved was alive and close to each other.  Now, my family is fragmented and dead or suffering... I just wish I was a kid again.  I might have gotten bullied in school, but it was nothing compared to this

[momtara]

That's funny - your last two sentences.  I was thinking that exact thing today, that it's been so long since anyone took care of me.  When I was a kid and I went to relatives' houses, they all wanted to hear what I was doing, they fussed over me, they accepted me.  Then my brother and I would get back into the car and get driven home.  I could go to sleep and know my parents had the wheel.  That was it.  No responsibilities except to get good grades and be cute.  I still take any (small) chance I get to see relatives, but I have to push for it now.  I love staying in hotels or being on a bus because someone else is taking care of things, driving, etc... .   I miss being a kid, having everyone alive, and not having responsibilities... .

I got bullied too (for being the smart, shy kid) but when I think back to my childhood, I remember riding bikes, getting praised for my grades, hanging out at my grandparents' on holidays.

But that's a tangent.  You know, that feeling can be back again someday - there are people out there to care about you, not always to need to be taken care of.  There will be people who want to take care of you.  I know things look bleak, but 36 is not what you think it is.  You are young, smart, hard working... . and right now, tapped out.

Please eat something.

Then, please think about this:  You mentioned possibly huring yourself.  Yet, you are afraid to leave your family.  Wouldn't hurting yourself hurt them more than walking away for a bit?  It sounds like you've backed off of that idea, but I want to reiterate this:  Please don't do anything rash.  It would just leave a lot of people feeling bad.  I know that people feel bad anyway, but they can handle it, more than you realize.

A lot of people preached tough love to me over the years.  I didn't do well with it - I have a brother who's a hermit and a mom who's bipolar and I constantly give them money.  But I have been trying to wean them a bit.  I have my own problems now.

You have to do what you feel comfortable with.  You don't want to be the one walking away.  But you are letting this person destroy you.  You can't go 3 days without eating, and be a wreck - what happens if you faint or end up in the hosp anyway.  (Maybe that's what you subconsciously want - a break, without overtly taking one?  You do deserve one... . )

Your debts are not as high as some people's.  Your problems, confusing as they are, are solvable.

Out of all the extreme things you could do, how about doing the least extreme one - see your therapist or your wife's therapist immediately, be honest about everything.  Maybe talk to a lawyer too, just to see if there's a way to stop your wife from harssing you at work and in the home without leaving you.

It seems a nearly impossible situation.  And yet - you are smart, you are kind, maybe you did or said things you're guilty about (I certainly have) but most of us are shown mercy for being human.  Show yourself a little mercy.

I hope things get better soon.  They can't get worse.    What's your favorite food?  Go eat it, bubeleh.  ALso, is there anyone you could talk to who's not totally crazy who can help?  Maybe time to come clean.

I think maybe one of the shrinks might have insight, but you've got to tell them eeeeverything.

[hurthusband]

all the problems are frustrating cause so few are my direct doing.  Dealing with the problems is something I know i can fix and handle, but the dealing with the non-rationale beligerent, abuse is something that does unnerve me.  It makes trying to do or solve other problems pointless and sucks the life out of me.

Saturday I went home after work, still concerned over her behavior.  I get home, and she says she wants to have a nice night and get along.  She had been cleaning the yard.  I thanked her and offered my help of course.  We went to dinner, and had a nice time.  She explains she is now bringing in $2k a month in cleaning (I had no clue nor seen that much money from her before) and that she would like me to check about renting a small efficiency apartment from my mother for studio space which would be about $608 a month all bills paid.  I am a bit hesitant as it is money, but she is upping what she brings to the table and it will help her get her art career off the ground which sounds like an investment.  My second problem is how my mother will feel since there has been animosity, from my wife primarly, towards my mother.  I am not sure if my mother will like that particularly since the spot she wants will be attached to the main office i work.  I agree to check into it as I do believe the one thing that can really help more than anything is her finding her calling and direction.  It can be completely depressing and disheartening to not have a job or one that you hate.  To go to college and feel that you wasted your time.  Must be even worse for somebody with BPD and I am sure is a big factor in the things going on.  Basically, she is at my mercy she feels (which she controls me, but she does not directly see that).  I agree to talk to my mother today which has me worried

Anyways, she goes out with her friends and at 2:20 am, I text her asking how she is doing and if everything is going well.  Basically, had not heard so was a bit concerned.  She writes back some nasty texts.  I see what is coming.  I put on clothing, knowing that I might need to leave once she gets home.  She gets home at 3:30 am and attacks on how our life is ___ and we are going nowhere because I do not know my future.  That I need to be doing more and I am not changing.  I finally go sleep in my care at 4:30 am, or try to.  All of Sunday is a day of how everything we have and are is ___.  How its all about me being cheap, how me doing everything half assed...

I dont know... if I was cheap would our debt rocket up $33k in one year after nearly having my best year ever?

I shake alot now... adrenaline... fear...   I cannot survive like this.  The only alternative is to leave, but I am not sure I can handle the guilt of leaving her.  I think some of that is my OCD.  I will obsess over it and the guilt of it all.  It will just haunt me incessantly.  It feels like the only solution to actually living is a miracle happening and she accepting me, but that would be a miracle... .

I am in a bad spot.  I think the OCD is binding me too, binding me to the abuse.  I cannot accept rationale thinking that I need to break away.  That there is nothing else I can do.  I hear it, and it makes sense, but I cannot feel it.  At same time, it maybe OCD that prevents me from killing myself too.  So I cannot leave, I cannot hurt myself, and I cannot stand up and its all from OCD.  I have myself in a torture box

[yeeter]

all the problems are frustrating cause so few are my direct doing.  Dealing with the problems is something I know i can fix and handle, but the dealing with the non-rationale beligerent, abuse is something that does unnerve me.  It makes trying to do or solve other problems pointless and sucks the life out of me.

... .

I am in a bad spot.  I think the OCD is binding me too, binding me to the abuse.  I cannot accept rationale thinking that I need to break away.  That there is nothing else I can do.  I hear it, and it makes sense, but I cannot feel it.  At same time, it maybe OCD that prevents me from killing myself too.  So I cannot leave, I cannot hurt myself, and I cannot stand up and its all from OCD.  I have myself in a torture box

Hurt,

You started out in this thread listing some of the things that are the problem with your wife.  Fact is, they were all only flavor of the day.  The overarching issue is that she has a mental illness.  YOU cannot fix this. 

But you ended up in this last post acknowledging that you had some of your own stuff to work on.  YOU CAN work on these items, and they have nothing to do with your wife.  AND, if you can improve your own emotional health it will make you better equipped to deal with your wife.

Talk to your T about what YOU can do to improve YOU.  A good start, and one that is entirely within your control

[momtara]

I think what yeeter just said is worth reading.  These problems are overwhelming.  It is hard enough to someone completely healthy to deal with them (and they would make anyone Unhealthy!)  If you end up sick, more broke, or in a hospital, you can't help anyone.  Please talk to your therapist.  Daily if you have to!  Or get a new one, maybe one who specializes in a number of things including personality disorders and ocd and anxiety... . if you have a university hospital near you, you can find out who the specialists are. 

I think a good T can maybe help you and then maybe even get her to come in and help the situation.

If not, stick with your own T but be honest.  Maybe he can refer you to someone.  Maybe you can get on medication that will help you... .

Saturday seemed so promising - although frankly, asking to rent your mother's efficiency just puts another hook in you to make you MORE guilty if you leave.  And what happens if she refuses to pay for some reason - suddenly that becomes your responsibility too and you have to bail out your mom.  It's another TRAP.  Lie if you have to - say anything to avoid it.  And if she's pulling in $2K a month, she should be helping pay off her ticket back from Europe (not to mention the kids' medical bills), but that's neither here nor there. 

You are making excuses when you say it must feel awful to not do anyting with your degree.  Yes, at least half of us experience that, so it is a shame, but it's not an excuse for all the behavior.  And I know you know that.

She gets to go out with friends.  Do you?

I would advise you not to rent that efficiency, because it can just cause more trouble.  Why not designate a room in your house for her to work in?  Or set a goal, like, how about we get $10K of OUR debt paid off, and then I will talk to my mom?  That gives you a good reason to put it off, and is worded carefully enough to remind her about the mutual debt.  Or you can say that once you pay off the European trip and 50 percent of the kids' medical bills, you will talk to her.  Just word it to make it fact based and solution based.  It's not a guilt trip, it's just a fact that you BOTH accumulated debt and need to work on it.

When she says your life is sh--, you should remind her that it's not at all - you have a house of love.  You have two people who love each other and two great kids.  Can't argue with that.  (I mean, she will, but it won't be your fault.)

The change from Saturday to Sunday is what mental illness is - it makes no sense.

So please talk to a good therapist, not a passive one, like the previous poster said, so this doesn't destroy you any further.  There are better days ahead, HH!

[Grey Kitty]

HH, you sound like you are literally just on the edge of completely falling apart.

 I so wish I could make things better for you.

My advice to you comes from the safety briefing on an airplane. "Put your own oxygen mask on first before assisting others."

You need to take good enough care of yourself that you hold together. Then you will have some energy left to help your wife.

More specifically, hold tight to the actual reality you are facing, and don't let your wife tell you that the sky is down, or that it is your fault what she is doing, etc. etc. etc.

Reality #1: Your wife is mentally ill, and isn't capable of giving you good advice. She is desperate to fill some holes in herself that aren't fillable, and is trying to grab straws out of your hands to do this.

So she cannot give you good advice on your career right now. Don't waste energy telling her this, just make your own decisions and follow through on them.

She also isn't in touch with the financial realities of your household budget.

I have heard that many hospitals/etc. will be pretty reasonable about debt collection. If you talk to their billing department and explain that you don't have the money they are owed, and make at least token payments, you may buy years of breathing room on this.

[momtara]

Sorry, when I said "You are making excuses when you say it must feel awful to not do anyting with your degree.  Yes, at least half of us experience that, so it is a shame, but it's not an excuse for all the behavior.  And I know you know that."

... . I meant, making excuses for her, which is totally fine - you are a nice and sympathetic person.  But I just meant, we all have been through that with our liberal arts degrees.  She is taking it to an extreme.  You are a good person for hanging on with her.

I rushed through my response, so it sounded harsh when it was not intended to be that way.   I just want to say what others have said, you need to be healthy.  Since you're not leaving, step out of the situation a little bit. 

A threapist who specializes in personality disorders and your own problems may be able to think of ways to help you deal with her, if you go see a person like that.

Please hang in there, HH!  I'm rooting for you. 

And I'm proud of you for all you have done, and are doing.  Many people would not be able to handle it.

[waverider]

Hi everyone. 

This thread has reached the four-page limit, and is now locked.  There have been some interesting points raised, please feel free to explore these further by starting another topic.