Pushed to a the near limit.

[Cipher13]

How far is your limit? Everyone has one. Mine I keep thinking is right there. Then I realize nope its still further. Or maybe I passed my limit and I am so numb to things I can't see where it really is or should be.

The other question is does she know that at soem point I may find that limit and be gone? I know she fears it. But does she have the slightest idea that she is pushing it close to me?

[Wrongturn1]

Cipher, that's a good question, and I don't really know the complete answer.  I suppose that's why most of us nons have stayed in a relationship with someone with BPD.  I assume that most people with well-developed, firm limits and boundaries would break it off with a BPD long before getting to this point.

This is a good thing to think about though.

[maxsterling]

Well, your limit could have already been reached, you just haven't realized it yet.   Sometimes I view myself that way - that too much damage has already been done to the point where I can manage today, but I can't move forward anymore.  Maybe an old car could be a good analogy.  All these little things keep breaking, costing you money, and frustrating you.  You keep replacing things like alternators and water pumps, keeping it going for another week.  And you have gotten into that routine.  Your limit had already been reached with the car when the power steering pump went out, it's just that at that moment you had more energy to just replace the pump rather than shop for a new car.  But, deep down you know a new car is inevitable.

Or, it could be a "straw that broke the camel's back" scenario.  You've put up with big and small things in the r/s, but the cumulative damage is growing.  The "limit" may be a small think in comparison to the large things of the past - an argument about something silly that makes you realize you don't have the same feelings for her anymore, or are simply out of energy.   Sometimes I feel like I am waiting for the next big issue to be my limit, meanwhile all the small stuff is eroding me.

But I think there are some clear boundaries that would make me say "no more".  Infidelity being one of them.  Her breaking it off with me and actually moving out would be another - I couldn't stick around for a recycle.  Physical violence would be a deal breaker.  And if she attempted suicide or went back into the hospital - I would seriously consider that a deal-breaker.  I feel like a jerk for saying that, but the reality is - I'm just not sure I am strong enough to deal with that anymore. 

Do you have a boundary that you know would be a clear deal breaker?  Or do you see yourself as a "straw that broke the camel's back?  It's good to think about these things.

[Cipher13]

I think my senerio is the frog in the pot of boiling water. I got it and it was fine. Slowly the issues pile up to the point I'm well done.

By boundary point would be physical abuse. Im close to my other which is she is so loathing to me and she is so beholden to me for her every bit of happiness or sadness.   Example of that is becoming more and more evident. She has been having difficulty at work (which she has put her notice in for) with a person that I think has similar qualities or is at least a super difficult person to please. She keeps asking me to do somethign get her mind off of it or do something to make her feel better. I am gettign told mor eand more to do things to make her feel better or get her to stop feeling bad. 

[DreamGirl]

Limits are part of every relationship - and when we sacrifice in a relationship and don't get the payoff we want, it's how resentment is born.

I used to turn myself inside out in my marriage, it was my codependent/martyr nature. My efforts were in hopes to be valued and instead those efforts became expectations. He was content with my doing more then he even asked, and I was angry that he wasn't thinking I was the best wife ever.

What's the payoff that you want from this relationship, Cipher?

She suffers from BPD, so her looking to you to help deal with her emotions is pretty typical and you've allowed it for a significant amount of time. I feel like you're a really good person who cares a lot about his wife and the intermittent good days is what keeps you holding on? Part of the [Undecided]board's initiative is in helping ways to move forward and not get caught up in doing the same thing over and over.

It is very important that we stop and take a look at ourselves - with the help of others - even professionals if we can. The goal here is not solve our life long issues, but to get to a realistic perspective on ourselves.

Why do you think your limits keep getting pushed higher and higher? Is this something you've always done in your life?

~DG

(Side note: The frog and the boiling water is an old wive's tale. The frog actually will jump out of the water before it boils. )

[Cipher13]

He was content with my doing more then he even asked, and I was angry that he wasn't thinking I was the best wife ever

I know exactly what you mean.

What's the payoff that you want from this relationship, Cipher?

I want to have a mor ebalanced realtionship where it doesn't feel like I have to work so hard to have small sense of stability. I want to do things for my wife out of love and respect not out of neccesity and becasue she expects it now that I have doen it more than 1 time.

Yes the good days are all I have and compared to what I would liek them to actually be they are not all that good. Lets just say some what bad would actually be awesome.

I allow the limits or the line in the sand to contiunally be redrawn. Short and simple answer is I allow for it to happen without any thought. It is how I handle most everythign in my life that is difficult. I allow for it without speaking up.

[DreamGirl]

Scariest part for me was redrawing the line - and where my own abandonment fears came into play. Again, what value did I actually bring to the relationship if I wasn't sacrificing and doing for him so that he depended on me (that's codependency) and busy keeping score in the process (that's martyrdom).

I allow the limits or the line in the sand to contiunally be redrawn. Short and simple answer is I allow for it to happen without any thought. It is how I handle most everythign in my life that is difficult. I allow for it without speaking up.

So this is pretty "normal" for you. She's not really bringing out this kind of demeanor?

It's part of all of our healing process to figure out the "why".

We tend to fall into situations that are "comfortable" to us (comfortable not really equating to "good" For instance, my being in a relationship where I thought I needed to sacrifice my own needs/wants for the relationship was something that I learned long before the hubs ever came along.

Why do you think that you keep your mouth shut and don't express yourself when it comes to difficult circumstances?

 

[Cipher13]

Why do you think that you keep your mouth shut and don't express yourself when it comes to difficult circumstances?

In the past whenI have tried to express my opion/thought/objection to something I am met with harsh tones and projection of guilt for being selfish. Often times she claims its not what I am saying its how it comes across. So I worked at my approach and how I would phrase things. Still did not work any different. Results were the same.

Last night the T asked her to imagine what it would be like if tragicaly I died. Think about how much she relies on me for things. And to write it all down. Afterwords and even today see said "Why? That is just stupid. This T is not helping me trust you. By what writting crap down. Thats so stupid."

[InSearchofMe]

Although I did not realize at the time that it was my limit, I know now exactly what it was and when it was.  It was the day (not that long ago) when I realized that the only thing keeping me from throwing my unemployed BPDh out on the street was that it would make me look like the uncaring b**** he accused me of being.

I thought for a long time about what my limit was.  In fact BPDh often asked what my limit was in terms of his behavior, unemployment, etc.  I thought identifying that limit was so important.  Turns out, for me, it was not so much the limit on what I would put up with from him that was important but the turning point in how I react to him that was really important.

The turning point hinged on me acknowledging and understanding my greatest fear:  his dysregulation.  I had gotten to a point that everything had devolved from trying to to avoid or stop his dysregulation to just trying to survive them.  I would just sit there with him screaming at me and inside my head saying 'just hang on it will be over soon, you can make it' all the while I felt like I was dying.

First big revelation:  He is going to dysregulate.  I cannot stop it.  I am not responsible for it.  Whether or not it gets worse for him is beyond my control.  What I can control is if I allow it to continue to get worse for me.  This is when I started setting boundaries (I am still new at this and not perfect at it by a long shot).  The first time I had to do it, I resented him for having to do it.  It was late at night and I wanted to go to bed.  He dysregulated, and would not leave me alone to go to sleep.  I tried to leave the bedroom so I could remove myself from the situation.  He was blocking the door trying to prevent me from leaving the bedroom.  After repeatedly saying "UPDh, step away from the door" and nothing else over and over again he finally let me pass.  I told him I was going out for a walk and would be back in 30 minutes.  I went out for a walk in the dark crying and muttering to myself how it is so unfair that I have to do this.  I went home and he was not better.  So I  went out and sat in the car (I did not drive anywhere as i had a couple of glasses of wine and was extremely tired.  Not safe for me to drive)  He came out and unlocked the car door and started in on me again.  Again, repeating over and over, "BPDh, step away from the car" and nothing else.  Finally he got tired of it and went back in the house.  I sat in the car for about an hour and then went back in the house.  He had gone to bed.  I slept on the couch.  Although I resented having to do any of this I had taken back power over myself by doing through this.

Second big revelation: every time I allowed him to 'redraw the line in the sand' I was in fact causing things to get worse.  He feels that I can and should be responsible for fixing how he feels.  Fact, I cannot and should not.  When I allow him to dysregulate on me, do things for him he needs to do for himself, I am communicating to him that I can and should fix him.  When it doesn't fix him, he not only looks for something else for me to do to fix him, he is more distrustful and accusatory towards me because he believes I told him this would help and it doesn't.  I help create the never-ending ever-increasing circles of dysregulation.  I had to stop my part even if I couldn't do anything about his.

Third big revelation:  Although initially very scary for me (panic attacks), dealing with him by setting boundaries was actually much less painful than just 'enduring'.  Boundaries really helped me begin disengaging emotionally from his dysregulation.  Did it mean I disengaged from him and our relationship overall?  At first I thought so.  But I realized that it changed for the better from being resentfully withdrawn to being unenmeshed in a healthy way.

Don't know if any of this is helpful to you, but it was helpful to me in articulating this.  It really helped me have clarity on how I am progressing.

 

[Cipher13]

Maybe the limit is that she just applied me toa job out of state without telling me she was going to and is expecting me to be happy that this person now wants to talk to me. I didn't want to move. I am not looking for a job in that feild. :'(

[InSearchofMe]

What is the worst thing that could happen if you said you are not interested and are not going to call this person?

[refusetosuccumb]

InSearchOfMe, your post read like my life the past few years.  Thank you for articulating it so well. 

I have stuck through it for 16yrs (married for 11yrs) and 2 children. Things started gettingg bad when our son made his appearance 5yrs into our r/s.  My dealbreaker was physical abuse or infidelity. He never physically abused me but he cheated.  Twice. I allowed myself to push my own line in the sand back by taking him back after his first affair, last year. I discovered that he had continuously contacted various local women via facebook and plenty of fish.

Your post really spoke to me. Thank you for sharing your Realizations. I really needed those tonight. Myself and the children are moving out on Saturday and its been an exhausting month cohabitating with stbx.

[refusetosuccumb]

***Revelations, sorry!***

[Grey Kitty]

I remember finding my limit.

My wife's BPD Episodes had been getting more frequent, the emotional abuse had been getting worse, and I had been subject to a few cases of (mild) physical abuse, and had at least tried self-injury myself as a way to get her attention during dysregulation (banging my own head on things).

Fortunately for me, I chose to go on a 10-day silent meditation retreat to figure this out--I don't recommend this for everybody, but it was very helpful for me. I came out of it much calmer, and with a lot of clarity, especially two things:

I knew that I loved my wife very very much, and always would.

I also knew that the BPD games she was playing with me had me almost believing her twisted statements instead of my own experience. I know that the way our r/s was playing out was terribly harmful to me.

And I realized that I cared more for my own wellness than I cared for our marriage.

So my limit was that I wasn't putting my wife or my marriage above myself anymore.

It was a wonderful sense of freedom. Now I could see that if I loved my wife (I did!) I needed to change our marriage to one where I could thrive. If she came along with me, that would be wonderful. If she decided she had to leave rather than be in a healthy r/s, or if I had to leave because she was treating me badly and I was being harmed by that too much... . so be it.

This gave me the courage to enforce some boundaries. Since then, my wife has improved, my marriage is good, and even though we still have troubles, we aren't making them for each other.

Finding my limit was probably the best thing that has happened to me in years!

Hope this helps you find yours.

[Cipher13]

What can I do when the counseling which I suggested will help is not. And the fact that its becasue she won't do what the T is askig her to do. Basically I see it this way. She doesn't like how our situation hasn't changed in over a year. She claims the T is supposed to help us. But if she isn't doing anything that the T is suggesting to her then what? Now she has no idea that she has BPD or any sort of problem. Infact if you were to ask her about it she wouldsay i'm the problem. I guess I'm looking for validation to say I have tried everything and and now its time to leave or she has to fix herself.Which would mean telling her sh has the problem. The T is eluding to it in a way but short of saying it I don't think she is picking up that the T is saying she has as much or more things to work on than I do.

[Waddams]

Maybe posing your question to the T next session?  In a way that doesn't single out your uBPDw as the bad guy of course.

"Mr. T, our relationship has become stuck in a place that is very hard.  You've asked us both to do various things, and some things we've been able to do, and some things we haven't.  ***at this point maybe list out things T has asked be done, who was asked to do them, and what the degree of success/compliance/cooperation was***  Now, for the things we haven't done, based on your observations, what do you think is holding us back from doing them?  And what, in your opinion, would help us both overcome the things holding us back to get over this hump?"

When the denials and distortions come from your uBPDw about how it's all your fault, she's perfect, she's the victim, etc., then instead of engaging with her, ask the T what his opinion of your uBPDw's statement is. 

Also, maybe ask the T what the objective of doing certain things was, what the T was hoping to guide you both too.  And an opinion from the T of where not doing those those things has left each of you.

And then, after that's all out, maybe ask why you are each being held back from various things, and what the T's diagnosis of you both would be.

He's a professional, he's supposed to be able to provide feedback.  Sometimes, you have to be able to put the expert on the spot and make them provide a professional opinion.  It's what they are paid for.  Try to figure out a way to let the T tell your uBPDw what her issue is.  She won't listen to you and hearing it from you will only make her more unwilling to listen to it from anyone else. 

[Banshee]

I'll tell you what I THOUGHT was my limit... I'm embarrassed to tell it but here it goes.

I drove 30 minutes to his ... turned around drove 20 minutes to buy dinner ... waited 40 minutes for it ... paid (of course) and drove back 20 minutes to his house... . he stayed home and waited.

When I walked in  after all this, it wasn't 2 minutes before his house phone rang ... it was his exwife (I could hear her)

They have been divorced 12 years and she is a lesbian now so no big deal and they have 2 kids together.

I walk out on the back deck where he comes out on the phone with her... he is laughing and joking and non stop talking... I sat out there for a good 40 minutes while he talked.I thought it was rude and enough was enough (he didn't know I knew who he was talking to)

So I got up ,walked through the house out the front door ... got in my car and left... There's was no one who could make me believe I did wrong by leaving... my phone was in view and was pretty sure he would be calling.

.THIS is where it gets so messed up NonBPD style...

One mile... look no call... . 2 miles look... no call 3 miles look no call! I'm shocked!

At 3 miles I pull over at the store and wait a bit ... . nothing... so then I PLAY IT OFF by texting his cell and asking if he needed something from the store!

See what I did? I reached my limit by feeling disrespected and I left but within 3 miles I started second guessing myself.((Don't ever second guess disrespect!))

I sent 3 texts to his cell and Called I got nothing back... went in the store came out and waited a few more minutes ... . still nothing... . I creeped as slow as possible back to his house waiting on him to respond notice I was gone ... remorse for being rude... I got nothing!

I pulled up he came out from around the house and was laughing asking where did I go... I played dumb and said the store ... I said to him I text you ... . what did he say ? OH I never looked at my cell it was inside ... I told my exwife you left because we were talking and he laughed.

Not only did he not care I left, he KNEW why I left but continued to talk to her while I was gone... then it never crossed his mind to even check his cell phone to see if I text  or to text me.

That should have been my limit ... I should have never went back again... but I did... but to me this was the rudest thing he did involving another person.

So ashamed even telling that mess actually

[Grey Kitty]

Many people here on bpdfamily.com have found that couples therapy is useless with a pwBPD. Sounds like you may be one of them.

What can I do when the counseling which I suggested will help is not. And the fact that its becasue she won't do what the T is askig her to do.

What you can do is enforce boundaries yourself.

Can we help you do that?

[ugghh]

I would suggest that the best step to finding the answers to your questions is to stop looking to your BPD for the answers.  You need to make a time to go to counseling by yourself and for yourself.  I would even theorize that you might already know the answer, you just have to give yourself permission to say it and believe it.

But does she have the slightest idea that she is pushing it close to me?

  In short - NO.  Because in her mind she is not the source of the problems you are, the therapist is, the world is, etc.  Everyone and anyone but her is the issue.

For me, the last Thanksgiving holiday was the limit.  My stbx uBPDw had ruined every holiday for years with her tardiness, insistence on special food for whatever diet she was on, rude texting /facebooking at the dinner table, lack of offer to ever help and just general unpleasantness to all around.  About 3 weeks before Thanksgiving I said I refuse to subject my children, now in their late teens to one more roller coaster holiday.  She began her usual stunts and drama right on cue and I left.  That was it.  Followed by one of the best Christmas holidays in years with my sister and her family along with my kids.