Last two days have been rough

[peaceplease]

The last two days have been rough.  I will start with yesterday.  My dd was livid when my ds lost the "only key" to her house.  She was on a rampage.

My ds was taking me and gs out to eat.  My gs then told his mom that he did not want to go eat with us.  She ran out of food stamps and does not have anything to feed him.  She told him that he should go with us.  He told her that he wanted her to go.  Now, remember that she is furious with my ds and just raged at him.  She says that she will go.  I told her that she could not go, as the two of them were fighting.  She said that she did not want to go, but she was only doing it for her son. 

My ds told my gs that his mom can not go.  My dd says that she is only going because my gs wants her.  My ds says then never mind, I am only taking mom.  My ds says for me to come on, and that he was not going to let my dd dictate what we were doing.  I have not seen my ds for three months, and I did not know when I would see him again.  He is a 7 hr. drive away.  I left with my ds.

My dd then sent me texts to tell my ds not to ever plan on seeing my gs again.  That my gs was sobbing after we left.  My gs felt like he was betraying his mom, if he went without her.  My dd was loving this and acting like it would have been a sacrifice for her to come. 

Today:

My dd comes over to use the wifi.  She asked what I was cooking because she does not have any food at home.  She told me that her and gs would have to eat here. A few hours later, my dh asks what I am cooking.  I told him that I was making spaghetti.  He says that he would buy hot dogs and make them, if I wanted.  He told my mom that I was making spaghetti.  She did not seem like she was too thrilled about spaghetti.  My dh asked if she wanted hot dogs, and she said that she would prefer that.  Then, he goes up to ask my dd.  She told him that my gs had a corn dog, yesterday, and spaghetti would be better.

I told my dh that he should not have given her a choice.  My mom did not want spaghetti,and my gs could eat hot dogs.  My dd went into rage.  My dh told her that others did not want that.  I told her that it was not my dh's fault.  It was my fault for not telling him that my dd did not get to choose.  I knew that he was going to ask her. It was my fault!  Then my dd said it was me taking blame for my dh.  And, now I am on his side.  It just sounds crazy what comes out of her mouth.  She continued to rage and rage.  I was going up to my room, and she yells, yeah go up to your room and shut the door.  I told her that was enough and to leave.  She just continues to yell and refuses to leave.  My mom asked everyone to stop.  I told my dd to leave, and she refused.  Then, she yelled that once she got on her feet, I would no longer see her son.  That she was only around because she NEEDED to be.  And, once she no longer needed me, that I would no longer see my gs - EVER!   

I said that I was going to my room.  My dh told me that she left as soon as she finished eating.

I do not want my dd to come here for awhile.  When she gets into a rage, she will not leave when I tell her to leave. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[PyneappleDays]

(Hugs).  I too always don't understand how a simple meal could turn into chaos.  I find them exhausting and wonder how the others go off whistling.

My daughter is always out of money, asking for food and to go out for something.  I wonder how it’s going to work when she has her kid.

PyneappleDays

[jellibeans]

Dear peaceplease

I think it would be good to try and find another way to approach these on going problems with your dd. You are being pulling in a million directions and not just by your dd. You are the designated door mat at your home and that is not right. Maybe you could set some new ground rules and boundaries that would help going forward.

Are you able to help your dd out with groceries? Maybe it would be good to buy a few basics that would help her get through the times when she is low on funds. Or could you have a to go box for her of leftovers etc... . Find away to be supportive but protect yourself from attacks.

Is there a way to post what the meals will be for the week on a blackboard or something? That way if someone has an issue they could tell you before hand... . try to find a way to avoid these battles over food.

As far as the first problem with your ds... . I can see how upset your gs would be leaving his mom behind. Could you have just suggested that you all ordered a pizza? or was there a way to bring back food for you gs and dd?

I think you need to find a way to get out of the middle of things. You seem to be the target for everyone not just your dd. I am so sorry things are not going well right now... . try to think of some ways to bypass these conflicts in the future... . we can only try to learn from thse kind of things and move on...

[Dibdob59]

As jellibeans says, you are being put in the middle and cannot win.

I too was concerned at the distress apparently felt by your gs - he is just a child and was obviously upset and confused by the chaos.  I have been in similar situations myself with both my gs and gd when UBPDS and UNPD/BPDH argue and I will not tolerate my gs/gd being hurt by their arguments.  They are children and need protection from what is taking place.

When BPD/NPD are in the middle of raging they have no consideration at all for others and in my experience that includes children, no matter how young they are.  I and/or my non DD immediately remove my gs or gd when this occurs and distract them either elsewhere in the house or take them out.  Non adults are able to control themselves and should not put themselves first when small children are present.

I am sorry if I sound harsh and appreciate you love your son and rarely get to see him - he must have been frustrated by the events caused by his sister.  However your gs needs protecting and soothing when  situations like this arise and he cannot do this for himself.  

It is a horrible mess when this happens,  ugh

[peaceplease]

I have given her groceries.  And, I left money for my gs to get something to eat.  Also, I had food to eat at my house.    My ds was home for Easter and wanted to take me out.  He was leaving, and we won't see him for probably another three months.  I was heartbroken that my dd flew into such a rage.  On Sunday, she was best buds with my ds.  Now, she hates him again. And, said that he is no longer allowed to see my gs.

I give her food.  However, she does not have a stove.  I bought her a toaster oven, and she has a microwave.   I gave her my George Foreman grill which she broke.  Then gave her an electric griddle she could use.  Also, bought her a crock pot.   Now, she is saying that if she had a stove that groceries would not cost so much, as she must buy convenience foods.   I refuse to buy a stove, as it is only a rental, and I have a feeling her landlady will want her out when the lease is up.  My dd has been a difficult tenant.    I will be getting her an outdoor grill in a few weeks.  

And, she is back here today asking for money for gas, acting like nothing ever happened.  I am going to sit down with her, later and make out menu with her for the rest of the week.  The real issue is how she rages at everyone.    Lately, it does not take much to get her into rage.

[peaceplease]

Yes. Usually, I do try to get him out and do exactly that with my gs. You are right about the rages.  She rages all the time in front of him.  She will blame it on other person, and says that my gs is used to it. 

I just felt stuck.  I was in the middle.    I could have handled that better than what I did.  And, my dd really painted my son black to my gs. 

[Dibdob59]

Don't blame yourself - I have been in similar situations.  Looking back after the event and having the benefit of hindsight we can all say we could have done better.

You are doing your best - we all strive to do more

[Thursday]

Hi peaceplease,

That sounds awful. Sorry for all involved.

When I look for a solution to something I find it helps to try to figure out what involves the least amount of steps, the least amount of effort. This can often help me find my bottom line.

I guess in this situation I would let your Mom's vote be the final vote. I also can't ignore that your dh offered to do hot dogs... . and that is certainly an easier step than you making spaghetti. Maybe you can talk to dh about not involving your DD in the decision making process... . that might keep things from having a place to escalate in the future.

I wish your DD could learn that beggars shouldn't become choosers, but I'm guess that to say this to your daughter wouldn't go over too well. 

... . just wanted you to know I read your post and I feel for you. Hang in there girl!

Thursday

PS, did you at least get to have a nice lunch with your son? What does he say about all of this? Can you vent with him since he knows everyone involved?

[qcarolr]

Peaceplease,

What a mess! It is so hard to take care of ourselves with strong boundaries around raging behaviors when a gchild is involved. And you have been through it for so so long. How old is your gs now?

If your DD cannot provide the basic care for her son - food - perhaps he should be living somewhere else. This is really her responsibility, not yours.  And I also get how impossible it is to limit the help asked for. I have been in this place many times with my DD, and my gd8 lives with us not her mom.

What would happen if you limited access to your home, your food, your appliances, your money when she is raging at you or anyone else in the household? How can you evaluate whether it is really helping her to provide all these things for her home? If you found the courage to step back, perhaps she would become more resourceful to survive.  This has been a VERY HARD LESSON for me to learn - and for my dh to support. Dh and I have to get on the same plan for this to work.

You can offer to provide for you gs when is is visiting you in your home. It might be a good thing for your gs to see these boundaries set with his mom -- that she does not get what she wants when she is having a temper tantrum. Does gs get what he wants when he is acting out of control?  We use the word "get your self-control" a lot in our home.

What would have happened if you could have calmly said to gs that it was HIS CHOICE whether to come with you and ds for dinner or to stay with his mom? How would DD respond to that - in your best guess? Then accept the choice from gs. DD was not really invited to come, esp after her raging behaviors.

What would have been wrong with having both spaghetti and hot dogs? You cook one dish, dh cooks the other. We most often eat 'buffet style' at our house. I set the food out on the counter and stove, set out a pile of plates, and let everyone choose what they want to eat. If they don't like what is offered, there is always peanut butter and bread or a frozen waffle or a bowl of cereal. I have chosen to let go of the meal time battles long ago.

Another way to think about all this is to ask what is behind all the conflict about food? What are the fears driving this angry behavior? How can the fears be comforted first, then maybe the behaviors will have a chance to change on their own?

Can you write down what your core values are? If you did not have to consider anyone else's needs or feelings - now just imagine this - what would your protective boundaries look like?

Now look at what would be the risks with these boundaries taking each person in your life into consideration. Maybe even make a list with each name in a separate column.

What would be the benefits of each protective boundary - maybe each person gets two colomns.

Just some thoughts that popped up for me.

qcr

[Pizzas123]

Hi peaceplease,

I am so sorry.  When your daughter yelled "yeah, go to your room and shut the door", well, my DD has said that very thing to me.  We try to remove ourselves from an impossible situation, and we get one more hurtful slap as we're doing that.

I see you are in the middle and being pulled so many different ways.  My thoughts are with you and I sure sympathize with your situation!  Our BPD children can take a peaceful happy day and turn it into chaos!  :'(

[Stella1425]

When my D was a teenager and I'd try to go to my room she'd chase. Once she pushed the door open so hard she put a hole in the wall of my room. Sometimes I wonder how she would have turned out if I had called the police.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

My DD refusing to leave the situation and following me yelling threats is one of the most un-nerving scary tactics she used when raging. I realize she often did not realize where she was at the time. I even walked across the street once to a 'safety plan' neighbor and she followed me into the front door before realizing where we were! Later she blamed ME for going across the street and 'humiliating the whole family'!

It is hard to know what will work in each family situation. The primary concern is everyone's safety. Do you have a safety plan?

qcr

[jellibeans]

I have installed a lock on my bedroom door and it has helped but there were times she tried to break the door down to get at me... . those are the times when the police need to be called... . when someone is going to follow you from room to room until they get the answer they want and badger you like that then you really need to ask for help from the outside.