to file harassment or not? poking the bear?

[atcrossroads]

Hi all,

I haven't been on the forums in a long time, but I have a dilemma that I'm really struggling with.  In December, my stb ex husband (npd/BPD) and I had a pendit lite hearing to determine support.  An automatic part of the hearing was a no harassment injunction for both of us.  Right after the hearing, he was furious because he was ordered to pay full mortgage (of house where he's been living alone for a year) and accused my attorney and I of perjury and all sorts of things. There was a spurt of harassing emails again in Jan to both of us over some repairs.  Then again two weeks ago, he had a flair and left me 6 voicemails and called about 20 times in 2 days and also sent a rash of emails over a 2 day period calling me a piece of trash, wishing me to burn in hell, etc.

Other than these 3 flares, the last few months have been relatively quiet - he is buying house from me and is supposed to close NEXT WEEK, at which time I am supposed to get my equity on the house!  Big deal, considering I moved out about 18 months ago.

We do work together, and that has been quite calm also (almost never see each other); however, last week he notified me in a nasty email that he had turned me in to our boss for some nonsense (I talked to the boss, and he knew it was ridiculous and asked if I wanted to report him to HR - I said not yet - trying not to get him fired).

So, this leads me to filing for show cause for violating harassment agreement.  My attorney, a friend who is a police officer, and my therapist all say it's my decision but are all encouraging me to do it.  It will cost him 700-800 dollars (he'll have to pay court fees and my attorney fees), and he will be utterly incensed!  My attorney says there is no doubt whatsoever that a judge will not tolerate the behavior and it's clear harassment -- no violent threats of bodily harm but definitely harassment and a pattern of.  He will have a misdemeanor, court fees, and a fine.  He is extremely limited financially right now, and I know the $ factor alone will infuriate him.  He also feels that he is correct that everything is my fault and he feels quite justified in everything he's said/done, as he considers himself the victim.

The dilemma I have is will the suit set him off more?  Will things fade away and simmer down once the house has closed, divorce is final, and we are done with each other (no kids/no ties)?  Or will he continue his behavior until a judge orders him to pay up with a consequence.

How do npd/BPD typically react to something like this?  Any similar experiences?  In some ways, I confess that I feel bad for him -- I rationalize and say to myself that he's not nearly as bad as some (I know livednlearned's ex,  for instance, would send her hundreds of emails - mine seems to pale a bit).  Part of me wants to let him go in peace, even after all this. On the other hand, he has put me through hell, he is making his own choices, and does he need the consequence?  I feel like a b*tch for waiting to get my equity and then taking him to court for harassment.

SO TORN.  Any wisdom would be appreciated.

[momtara]

What do your attorney, therapist, etc. think will be a positive outcome of going to court over this?

I think the benefit is that it shows him he can't get away with this stuff. 

However, I don't really see the good in it beyond that.  You just want to get away from this person and you've already gotten most of what you wanted.

You can always file a charge if he does it again (although post divorce motions are more expensive, etc.)

Another option is to send a strongly worded attorney letter in order to document it.

I'd defer to others.  I faced several things like this, and ended up letting it go.  I still question those decisions, but I don't know if they were right or wrong just yet.  It's terrible to have to keep being faced with these things.  I have kids, so it's a bit worse for me.

I'd go with your gut this time.  If you don't see a need to poke the bear, wait a bit.  You have a little time to decide anyway.

[ForeverDad]

There are pros and cons, as in all things.

It is generally not a good strategy to think that if you don't do anything to trigger the other person then it will get or stay calm.  Too often the other person finds something else to get triggered.  Also, inaction makes the disordered person bolder and 'enabled' to do more.

So much of what happens never gets much attention by the court.  However, you have valid reasons to bring this to the attention to the court.

[momtara]

By defer, I meant, defer to others on this board.  I ended up being passive with some of this stuff and still don't know if it was the right thing to do.

[atcrossroads]

Thank you both very much for your responses.  Momtara, like you I tend to be rather passive and nonaggressive, and you can tell from my post I don't want to take him to court.  I dread the thought of it.

But, what FD says is the reason I feel I should -- without holding him accountable (he is violating a court order and he was warned in Jan. in a letter from my attorney to his), he may well think he can continue to talk to me (via email) however he wants.  And, who knows what the next trigger will be.  He always has to have someone to blame, and well, I'm it.  So, I'd like to think things will be calm when house deal is done this week and divorce will be final soon, but I also feel I need to stand up to him.

As much as I hate doing it, I am leaning toward filing ... . after I get equity this week.  Now, one reprecussion is smear campaign -- he has already done this big time at work.  I don't know exactly what's he's telling people, but I know there are a handful of colleagues I've known for two decades who won't look me in the eye anymore.  But he is doing that regardless of my filing, so I don't want to let the fear of that keep me from standing up for myself.  After all, I can't worry about the people who can't see through his crazy... . I was one of them for a long time myself!

Thank you again for the replies -- it's helped me mull over this tough decision.  I still feel like a meanie, but I think I gotta do what I gotta do!

[livednlearned]

I get it.    It sounds a lot like my rodeo.

The one thing I seem to have to learn over and over again is assuming situation A would go smoothly, and focusing entirely on situation B, then trying to figure out how my choices around situation B will affect situation A and a bunch of other things. But my experience is that situation A never goes smoothly.

I do think it's smart to pace things to your advantage, as long as postponing doesn't jeopardize your chances of being heard favorably in court. But manage your expectations about the house closing going well. Things might go ok or not, regardless of whether you file harassment charges. Situation A, the house closing, is it's own kind of trigger.

Does that make sense? It's a pretty fine nuance. In your circumstance, it means: prepare for problems during the house closing. If it doesn't harm you to wait to file harassment, then might as well. Maybe ask your L how long you can wait before it becomes a problem, and give yourself some time to get through the closing so you aren't having to deal with two stressful interactions at once.

My belief about putting bad behavior before the court is that it's beneficial. His behavior got him into this position -- that's how I look N/BPDx's behavior, meanwhile admitting it's a very awful emotional process to get to that frame of mind each time. Never seems to get easier.

I was thinking today about values and boundaries with N/BPDx, especially after some tough decisions with him around custody. What's changed for me is that three years ago I would probably feel conflicted if N/BPDx stood up in court and said, Yeah -- I did those things, I need help. Like if he agreed with me, then I would feel totally confident in my opinion to file a harassment charge. Ever since thinking hard about my values and how they connect to boundaries, I see now why it's a big deal for those of us who tend to be passive. If your values are clear, your boundaries are clear, and your actions are based in something meaningful to you. If you refuse to allow someone to treat you in threatening ways, then you set boundaries to protect yourself based on that value.

Not saying it's easy to get to that point. I had to do something similar and its ripping me up inside. The only consolation is that I had a compass point that provided a much better guide than guilt.

[atcrossroads]

Thank you so much, LnL.  I need to read this over 2-3x to let your words sink in about values and boundaries.  And, yes, if I recall our rodeos are oh so similar!

If it's not too personal, when you say you had a compass point that was a better guide than guilt are you alluding to your son, or do you mean that you had developed the boundaries by that point to be strong enough to do what you had to do to stand up to him, however uncomfortable or bad that made you feel? 

Sorry, like I said, I'm still digesting your post.

Thanks.  And, yes, you predicted it accurately -- LOTS of drama with the closing.  Nothing is simple, straightforward, or low drama.  It's all exactly the opposite, so I am learning to expect that.  Tomorrow is the day, and I hope it goes ok -- now if we can only figure out the logistics of where to sign.  I sure don't want to be in same room with him unless it's a courtroom.

[livednlearned]

Thank you so much, LnL.  I need to read this over 2-3x to let your words sink in about values and boundaries.  And, yes, if I recall our rodeos are oh so similar!

One thing that might be different for me (which would make it hard to digest) is that N/BPDx admitting his bad behavior would make me more confident. By confident, I don't mean smug -- I mean confident in the sense that our judgement was the same, that we would both agree his behavior was out of control. Because N/BPDx is very narcissistic, I didn't get any cycles of tenderness. Once he painted me black, there was no white ever again. So having N/BPDx admit his behavior was out of control would've given me confidence. Does that make sense? I think a lot of people here would feel the opposite -- that if their ex admitted they needed help, it decreased their confidence that they were doing the right thing. Because someone who says they were wrong seems like someone who can be fixed.

Just wanted to clarify since the narcissistic traits in my ex created different dynamics.

If it's not too personal, when you say you had a compass point that was a better guide than guilt are you alluding to your son, or do you mean that you had developed the boundaries by that point to be strong enough to do what you had to do to stand up to him, however uncomfortable or bad that made you feel?  

The compass point is knowledge that I am worth protecting. Such a simple statement, but such a hellish journey to get to the point where I truly believe it.

Thanks.  And, yes, you predicted it accurately -- LOTS of drama with the closing.  Nothing is simple, straightforward, or low drama.  It's all exactly the opposite, so I am learning to expect that.  Tomorrow is the day, and I hope it goes ok -- now if we can only figure out the logistics of where to sign.  I sure don't want to be in same room with him unless it's a courtroom.

If you end up being in the same room with him, just know that you don't owe him eye contact. If you feel stronger looking somewhere neutral, then do that. It helped me get through the first several years of my interactions to take back that power.

[ForeverDad]

My title and refinance closing was at the bank and either a bank officer or an attorney from the title company conducted the closing.  We did it separately, it was 2008, it's a bit fuzzy now but likely she signed first (quit claim) and then me (refinance).

[atcrossroads]

Thanks again for the responses.  We are DONE.  We signed today at the public library.  I went into the study room alone with the closing agent (who was a disorganized buffoon) and signed on exactly one line.  He had an inch and a half of papers and had me sign one spot -- sure hope that was right.  He was late, showed up in shorts and a t-shirt, and rooted around in his bag for a "black" pen.  At any rate, after that one signature, I left.  So, there was extremely minimal interaction with my ex.  Thank goodness!

Now, when I get my equity check is another matter.  I expect it will be disbursed in a week or so. 

LnL - my husband is BPD/npd but my therapist feels his npd is much stronger.  Since I left in Feb last year, I've been painted pure black and will never go back.  There was none of this "recycling" business I read about -- no attempts at tenderness here either.  Jekyll and Hyde all the way.  All the good I saw in him (and he was very kind and tender during much of our marriage) evaporated and demons took hold.  He is like a monster now, and I can hardly believe I was married to him for nearly 10 years.  Twilight Zone! 

I feel the opposite though -- him turning into a monster has given me confidence that I'm doing the right thing.  I was so wrenched and torn through the leaving process but his actions since have 100% validated to me that I'm doing the right thing.  It's late, I'm starving, and have had quite a Monday, so I might have read that all wrong.  But I think that's what you meant.  Seriously, my brain feels like Swiss cheese these days!

[formflier]

Have you figured out what you are going to do with the court decision for show cause?

I tend to think that your plan... . if I understand it correctly... . of waiting till closing and disbursement is over to move on show cause is the correct way to do this.

I'm new to this board... . so not veteran advice... . just my gut reaction.

Thanks again for the responses.  We are DONE.  We signed today at the public library.  I went into the study room alone with the closing agent (who was a disorganized buffoon) and signed on exactly one line.  He had an inch and a half of papers and had me sign one spot -- sure hope that was right.  He was late, showed up in shorts and a t-shirt, and rooted around in his bag for a "black" pen.  At any rate, after that one signature, I left.  So, there was extremely minimal interaction with my ex.  Thank goodness!

Now, when I get my equity check is another matter.  I expect it will be disbursed in a week or so. 

LnL - my husband is BPD/npd but my therapist feels his npd is much stronger.  Since I left in Feb last year, I've been painted pure black and will never go back.  There was none of this "recycling" business I read about -- no attempts at tenderness here either.  Jekyll and Hyde all the way.  All the good I saw in him (and he was very kind and tender during much of our marriage) evaporated and demons took hold.  He is like a monster now, and I can hardly believe I was married to him for nearly 10 years.  Twilight Zone! 

I feel the opposite though -- him turning into a monster has given me confidence that I'm doing the right thing.  I was so wrenched and torn through the leaving process but his actions since have 100% validated to me that I'm doing the right thing.  It's late, I'm starving, and have had quite a Monday, so I might have read that all wrong.  But I think that's what you meant.  Seriously, my brain feels like Swiss cheese these days!