lawyer consultation

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Im not to thrilled with the lawyers outlook, she only talked to me for 30 min and based on what I was able to tell her she said I should definitely win the contempt of court charge but she doesn't think I have enough for a custody change yet. I wasn't able to give her all the information I have so im not sure how she could come to the conclusion that I don't have enough evidence yet.  she claims to know the judge on my case very well, they go out for coffee frequently. she suggested I wait till jan when I will have standard visitation in place to request a psych evaluation and go for custody because we could go through juvenile court and they have more freedom to do things with a GAL. It will cost 3000$ for the contempt charge and she said she could ask for custody modification but not to get my hopes up.

I have never heard of going through juvenile court before. I have another consultation with a different lawyer this week to get another opinion.

[Eco]

Im not to thrilled with the lawyers outlook, she only talked to me for 30 min and based on what I was able to tell her she said I should definitely win the contempt of court charge but she doesn't think I have enough for a custody change yet. I wasn't able to give her all the information I have so im not sure how she could come to the conclusion that I don't have enough evidence yet.  she claims to know the judge on my case very well, they go out for coffee frequently. she suggested I wait till jan when I will have standard visitation in place to request a psych evaluation and go for custody because we could go through juvenile court and they have more freedom to do things with a GAL. It will cost 3000$ for the contempt charge and she said she could ask for custody modification but not to get my hopes up.

I have never heard of going through juvenile court before. I have another consultation with a different lawyer this week to get another opinion.

[momtara]

Hmmm, knowing the judge is promising.  January is a long time to wait, but you can collect more evidence.  Let us know what the second attorney says.  I've found that most attorneys are kind of cautious (mine were) but if you want something done, you have to be firm and fight for it.  Maybe there is a middle ground between doing something now and waiting until Jan.  See what the next person thinks.  This attorney sounds decent and it sounds like she is willing to do it if you want it done.  You can get more perspective from the other person and then figure out where you want to go.

[Eco]

January is a long time to wait, but you can collect more evidence.

this lawyer wants to go for the contempt charge right away and come back in jan for the custody modification if we don't get it now

[momtara]

Seems like your gut was telling you to do something now.  This lawyer seems to agree.  So maybe that's two for and one against. 

Did this lawyer seem to just want to rip you off?  This is always so hard because it's hard for us to tell if they just want to rush us into court to make money, or they really want to do what's best for us.

What's your feeling on both?  Did they both seem intelligent?  Had your interests at heart?

[ForeverDad]

January is a long time to wait, but you can collect more evidence.

this lawyer wants to go for the contempt charge right away and come back in jan for the custody modification if we don't get it now

Actually, this does make sense.  If you wait to the end of the year and go to court and say, "Ex has been blocking me starting back in March and April", the judge is going to look at you and say, "Why did you wait so long?  Too much time has passed and most of that is 'stale' and outdated."

As the old saying goes, Strike while the iron is hot.  Besides, getting back into court may take a month or two.  The incidents are ongoing and these couple months is enough time to demonstrate that you and your parenting are being obstructed.  The lawyer is correct, she may only get a slap on the wrist or maybe only a finger wagged at you, courts are reluctant to make major changes without immense reason to do so, but (1) documenting it (2) in court is a good foundation for later.

Now, is the lawyer too passive?  Hard to say, it does sound reasonable and a good strategy, establish a foundation, ask for as much time and responsibility as possible.  Then, even if mostly denied, you've gotten your requests on the record and laid a foundation for next time.  And you know your ex, there will be a next time.

[Waddams]

You never know the best thing to do until it's hindsight.  Filing now for contempt, not getting what you want, but still getting an issue on record with the court could help with the next case, assuming her misconduct continues.  It could also be a boot to the head that gets her to wake up some and stop misconduct that is actionable by the court.  Note not stop all misconduct, just clean up her act just enough to stay out of the judge's crosshairs.

So waiting and building a stronger case could be the way to go.  Or it couldn't, letting things go could be construed as your implied approval of said things because you didn't speak up sooner.  It really depends on the opinion of the judge, and no way to know that until you have the hearing.

The lawyer that knows the judge well is probably the best one to represent you in front of that judge.  Sometimes the personal relationships are stronger than the evidence and facts of the case.  It's unfortunate, but true.  

I guess one question for you is can you tolerate her misconduct for a while longer while building a stronger case?  What are the consequences of not acting yet?  Anything endangered?  If not, are there new boundaries you can erect to protect yourself more during this time period?  What does the L say about gathering evidence while your waiting?  And advice on best evidence to get?

[Eco]

You never know the best thing to do until it's hindsight.  Filing now for contempt, not getting what you want, but still getting an issue on record with the court could help with the next case, assuming her misconduct continues.  It could also be a boot to the head that gets her to wake up some and stop misconduct that is actionable by the court.  Note not stop all misconduct, just clean up her act just enough to stay out of the judge's crosshairs.

So waiting and building a stronger case could be the way to go.  Or it couldn't, letting things go could be construed as your implied approval of said things because you didn't speak up sooner.  It really depends on the opinion of the judge, and no way to know that until you have the hearing.

The lawyer that knows the judge well is probably the best one to represent you in front of that judge.  Sometimes the personal relationships are stronger than the evidence and facts of the case.  It's unfortunate, but true. 

I guess one question for you is can you tolerate her misconduct for a while longer while building a stronger case?  What are the consequences of not acting yet?  Anything endangered?  If not, are there new boundaries you can erect to protect yourself more during this time period?  What does the L say about gathering evidence while your waiting?  And advice on best evidence to get?

im actually going to go with a different lawyer, he is very aggressive and really detests a parent interfering with visitation. he was recommended by my counselor and he is giving me a break on the fees also he is going to spend a lot more time with me going over all the evidence. the last lawyer I talked to was going to charge me 3000$ for about 10 hrs of work

[Aussie JJ]

I don't know your specific details I'm sorry. 

The question that solved this for me when doing research was when I asked how they would instruct the lawyer if they were in my position. 

I had a lawyer tell me that I should do XYZ and go for broke straight away.  Another tell me to exploit the mental illness and how we could use that to my advantage.  The one I selected was the one that told me they would instruct themselves to do whatever is I'm the child's best interests long term no matter the short term consequences and lock in a concrete plan for the child long term. 

He explained that when our son was 21 years old he would be able to look back and say mum and dad did the correct thing and although it was hard supported each other and worked for his best interests.  That sold me. 

Whatever the outcome I can't accept exploiting her mental illness.  I can't accept excluding his mum and not trying to support her in his life like she is doing to me.  If I do that without a mental illness myself or nothing to blame I will forever regret it.  I will be 10x worse than her if I do anything other than what is in my sons best interests, getting the problem recognised and addressing it so she gets better or gets help and so that I get to be a part of his life. 

I have problems myself and I would prefer to acknowledge them and fix them.  If she does that as well then our son is so much better for it.  It is a shame I have to go to court to do this. 

[Eco]

I spoke with the new lawyer, im very pleased with his style and he has my daughters best interest in mind and is passionate about doing the right thing. while he believes I will win the contempt charge, he feels like its not the right time to go yet. as he said " the situation isn't ripe yet" he would hate to take my money and just get me a few hrs of lost time. he feels that I wouldn't get primary custody yet, he wants me to continue doing what im doing by documenting and stay the course. he feels that when the over nights start next month things will get worse ( which I already know) and after the first denied over night visitation we will go to court. We will be going after primary custody and he feels that we will either get primary or a extended version of what I already have. He feels that we will get primary before we would get a 50/50 custody. he describes based on what I showed him in evidence is she acts like she has sole custody when she doesn't.

on a side note he felt like my last lawyer did a bad write up of the court order as there is no section for missed visitation or make up procedures, he also cant believe I have so little time right now with no criminal background or drug abuse and I have my 10 yr old son in my care. I blame my lawyer and my lack of knowledge in what I could or couldn't get.

last wed I had to spend my visitation time at my daughters new dr so I could introduce myself and correct all the issues my ex created. she didn't have me on record as the father or my number on file, she had her boss as the 2nd contact. unfortunately the dr is under the assumption that my ex is a wonderful mother   I didn't talk bad about my ex or try to enlighten the dr. I feel that she will have to find out on her own. I got a copy of the dr visit for my daughter and my ex put down that she was concerned of the visitation times over 2 hrs

[momtara]

This lawyer sounds very promising.  It's ok that you had to use your visitation at the doc's office.  Baby steps.  It will pay off in the end.

[ForeverDad]

I can understand the lawyer saying primary is better than 50/50.  I can think of two reasons.

For some time now I've been encouraging our members not to be timid in asking for additional or majority time.  It seems many judges don't want to make too many changes at once (or make one parent the winner and the other the loser).  So we end up with baby steps of improvement.  However, when substantive issues are raised and the court must decide since a settlement was not reached, then you will step up.  But if you were timid and didn't ask for much then there's not much to grant.  Better to ask and receive little than not ask and not receive.

Second, in my case we settled for Shared Parenting after a two year divorce.  I knew it wouldn't work but I took the 'less risky' settlement route, at least I did get Residential Parent.  About 1.5 years later I sought custody and 1.5 years after that I got custody - but GAL wanted to keep the 50/50 schedule.  I felt it wouldn't work and it didn't.  It took almost 3 more years and I got majority time.  My point here is that 50/50 is a stop-gap or half measure when dealing with an entitled parent.  Don't think that 50/50 will resolve all issues, what it did in may case, getting custody but staying at 50/50, was make me less weak, not my ex less entitled.

So I agree, ask for majority, make up and consequences, since ex clearly can't share and you can.  While you may not get it the first time around, if you build a history as a normal parent with normal parenting and a willingness to step forward to parent and she builds one of obstructive entitled parenting then you've done a lot to make the judge's decisions likelier to be better for your child.

[Eco]

I can understand the lawyer saying primary is better than 50/50.  I can think of two reasons.

well my lawyer was implying that more then likely we couldn't get a 50/50 custody plan unless me and my ex both agreed to it, my ex would never agree to that. my lawyer said the judge wouldn't agree to a contested 50/50 custody request. he said we would get primary or a extended version of the plan I have now

[livednlearned]

So I agree, ask for majority, make up and consequences, since ex clearly can't share and you can.  While you may not get it the first time around, if you build a history as a normal parent with normal parenting and a willingness to step forward to parent and she builds one of obstructive entitled parenting then you've done a lot to make the judge's decisions likelier to be better for your child.

What FD is saying is that it's important to ask. He's not saying you're likely to get it. That's a really important distinction.

well my lawyer was implying that more then likely we couldn't get a 50/50 custody plan unless me and my ex both agreed to it, my ex would never agree to that. my lawyer said the judge wouldn't agree to a contested 50/50 custody request. he said we would get primary or a extended version of the plan I have now

Your lawyer is telling you that you won't get more. He's probably right. But the point FD is making is that you want to ask for what you think is best for your D based on what you know about your ex's troubled parenting and her alienation.

Over time, it's possible that you can establish that you are indeed the parent who should have primary custody. The same thing happened in my case. My lawyer told me I would never get sole legal custody. I knew that sole legal custody was important and would not agree. When we determined custody and everything else, our consent order said N/BPDx and LnL agree to 95% of everything, but the parties cannot agree on the issue of legal custody and this matter must go before a court.

Then everything moved forward. We were defaulted to joint legal.

Then 1.5 years later, I had enough documentation and expert testimony to back up why sole legal was better for S12. My lawyer stood up and said, LnL asked for sole legal back in the beginning, and the parties could not agree, but we are here today with boatloads of evidence why sole legal is indeed the right thing for S12.

Does that make sense? You're asking for what you think is best for your D. You won't get it right away, but you want to show a trail of what you knew was best for D. Lawyers don't understand the lengthy high-conflict part of these divorces. They are focused on getting a favorable or realistic ruling in the short term, whereas we are focused on the long haul.

[Eco]

Does that make sense? You're asking for what you think is best for your D. You won't get it right away, but you want to show a trail of what you knew was best for D. Lawyers don't understand the lengthy high-conflict part of these divorces. They are focused on getting a favorable or realistic ruling in the short term, whereas we are focused on the long haul.

yes makes perfect sense

Then 1.5 years later, I had enough documentation and expert testimony to back up why sole legal was better for S12. My lawyer stood up and said, LnL asked for sole legal back in the beginning, and the parties could not agree, but we are here today with boatloads of evidence why sole legal is indeed the right thing for S12.

its really frustrating at how blind the courts really are to whats best for the kids involved