DD wants me to take her ice cream

[hopeangel]

Hi there!

My dd has been unwell the past few days, she says she hasnt slept and she is on hunger strike because she is 'sick of being the boss of her own life'

Now I am told by my support person that she is exhibiting 'extinction burst' because I have been quite firm with her to encourage her to become more independent lately. It was working now she is kicking against it.

So here's the thing - she has been intermitantly painting me black and white for days whilst telling me of her heart rending unhappiness!

She will not come and stay with me this weekend she is 'through with coming out' she will not make food or excercise and she says she wants to go to hospital to be cared for.

Just now she rang telling me nothing's changed and she isnt eating unless I will bring her chocolate magnum ice lollies    I am NOT driving 30 mile round trip to bring lollies she can get from her corner shop! She said she won't eat then since she won't go out and she won't make food.

I said I wouldn't do it and she called me a dick and the usual ranting started - I put the phone down!

But now I am wracked with guilt, I feel so mean, she is in pain and I denied her what she wanted from me! 

On the other hand I know that an extinction burst requires me to be really strong and not give in to my urge to take her the lollies!

I know what I should do I think I just need to get it off my chest and if anyone else has these situations do you give in to give them a little comfort or go for the long-term goal of making them do it themselves!

It sounds trivial when it's about lollies but my next move feels so crucially important here, or am I overthinking this?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[js friend]

Hopeangel,

I dont think this is trival at all, and Iam sure i would be feeling guilty too

I guess this is really about your dd wanting to see you and make the effort to come over. My dd is just the same and is forever saying that we dont make enough effort to go and see her... . not bearing in my mind that most of us hold downfull time jobs while she sits at home doing nothing all day.I think its part of this object consitancy thing. If they dont see us they cant seem to remeber that we are still there, and if  this is really the issue and not the ice-cream maybe you could kill 2 birds with one stone and offer to meet her half-way and go for an icecream somewhere or have a few lollies in the park.

It also sounds like your dd has given up on herself so i would also be speaking to the support person and see what the next plan of action is.

[hopeangel]

hi js friend,

Yes you could very well be right but what throws me here is that she doesn't want me to come and bring her back here, and she doesn't want me to come and make some proper food for her!  She just says she wants the lollies and that is all that will make her a bit happier! 

She has just text me 'all i want is some magnum ice lollies :-('

[lever.]

I think I'd give in hopeangel and I know I would be wrong!

This sounds like an extinction burst and if you back down she is being taught to escalate her pleas.

Is there any way of showing concern without backing down. It sounds like she wants your concern rather than the lollies.

I have also got a thread going at the moment which I wonder if people will think is trivial, but how we handle these day to day issues is very important -it buidls the foundation for our whole relationship

[qcarolr]

Hopeangel -

Can you explain more about your D 'feeling unwell'? What kind of support does she have in her life apart from you? Is she living in  a supported housing situation? Is she in therapy?

What is the boundary that you have put in place (or boundaries) that she is being so resistant about? How is this boundary important for you? How is it helpful for her?

It is hard to find the best ways to show our love for our BPDkids and stay firm with limits we have in place. I too struggle with setting side my guilty feelings. Things have gotten better for my family as I have become more clear with what I am able and willing to do in support of my DD27's daily living skills and needs and what she can do for herself. I have been surprised recently how she is able to do so much more than I previously believed - she is in a very structured work release program from the county jail - DUI and harassment convictions where she failed living independently on probation.

qcr

[hopeangel]

Hi Lever and Qcarlolr! 

The boundary I had was about making people 'jump to' rather than needing us for real support, she only has us ans her CPN for support now and has been on the longest waiting list for therapy i have ever heard of! 

She is ill with depression and says she will not take care of herself anymore because she doesn't want to be independent!

I want to encourage her to be independent since I work ling hours atm (not through choice but because dd almost ruined us financially until I got a grip again!)

Here's an update though:

After posting and wrestling with my urge to go to her - with or without ice cream, I had a call from a mental health home team worker who had been seeing dd to assess if she could go into hospital as she had requested to - she told me that dd probably was just saying she wanted ice cream to get me to go because she couldn't say that she wanted ME but she did really!  I told her she had said she didn't but she had told this person that she did!

So I went and took ice cream (!)  and she was not great but i sat with her while she listed all the things I had done wrong in her childhood (none of them relavent or true!) I told her she had not been brought up in poverty and that at times she had been rather spoiled sometimes which had been commented on by others at the time, she said in her head she hadn't had any clothes, just rags and her hair had been awful (it was beautiful) I said 'one thing I am very very sorry for is not understanding you and trying to treat you just like ds'  she went back to the 'childhood poverty' and said she had told all the mental health supporters she hadn't been provided for as a child  .

I took it all on the chin since she wasn't looking well and ran her a bath (which she really liked me doing)  she felt better after and we watched tv, her mood improved and she suddenly stopped criticizing me and said 'do you know what I WILL come to your house' so she is asleep here right now and as far as I know all is well and she will go to see a friend later today!

You never really know which way is up do you but one thing she said about the ice cream was 'I just wanted you to bring me a treat not boring food just to see if you cared enough to bring your child ice cream!' 'That's what people do' she said. It reminded me of the time - one mother's day when she demanded I take her out and treat her because 'It's MOTHER'S day and your MY MOTHER' to my shame I did that as well, but I have learned loads since then!

I feel I have averted a crisis (for now)but then again I may have been guilty of 'intermittent reinforcement' during an extinction burst and as lever said I have taught her I will back down if she applies enough pressure!

Now I'm not even sure if I did right or messed up, but I suppose at least she is ok right now!

[lever.]

Reflecting on it now I think you did the right thing. She is depressed and her thinking is distorted. She didn't really want ice cream-she wanted nurturing.

Its sometimes difficult to distinguish what is just a behaviour we want to reduce and what is an emotional need

I can really see that you need to stop jumping to every little demand but it sounds as if her depression needs to improve before she can be more independent.

Its a fine line between encouraging over-dependence and giving support and often difficult to judge.

Glad she's ok now.

[js friend]

Awww... . Hopeangel there is really no right or wrong when it comes to our children. 

we just have to just go by our instincts and do what feels right.

You could make" ice-cream" your code for" i would like to see you" in the future... Often our pwBPDs dont actually know how to ask for help... . my dd doesnt seem to know anyway. I think it is the chance that we will say no and they will feel rejected that pervents them from asking us outright so we often have to read between the lines.I have to do this with my dd all the time when she comes to talking about her emotions.

[hopeangel]

Thank you so much lever and js friend! This has helped me so much and you are so right! 

[hopeangel]

Oh dear dd hates me again!

She has been staying here and we have gone from black to white and back again!

Two weeks ago she complained I talk to her as if she's a child!  Today she complained I talk to her as if she's an adult (she's 22!).

I have not altered how I speak to her at all! Anyway the upshot is she is upset because I don't treat her and pamper her (I blooming DO!) and she has never heard of such neglect and that  I work all hours because I hate my children (her and ds - both adults) not because she has financially stressed my household to its very limits!

She has gone home at her request and is ranting about me on facebook AGAIN!

She is not very well and I wanted her to stay with me!  :'(

I am feeling tired and worried now! 

[lever.]

Oh dear! I think she knows deep down that you care but she's not in a good place.

Does DD let you talk to her mental health worker? if so it might help to phone and let her know how the weekend went.

I think you deserve a little rest now.

Its hard work keeping level -headed with all these rapid changes.

Try to do something nice for yourself for an hour or two and remember "teflon mind" from DBT-don't let any of it stick, its just her own depression and confusion

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[hopeangel]

Thank you Lever! 

I have called the home treatment team at the hospital and told them she is not ok and they said she is on the list for call from them anyway today!

Part of me hopes she goes in hospital for a bit because she wants to and then I know she is safe and cared for whether she likes me or not!

She had a letter with her when she came to stay - it was to say sorry for the long wait for therapy and did she still wish to stay on the list?  I helped her fill it in explaining she felt worse than ever and felt like giving up!

I do hope that reaps a result!

[co.jo]

Valerie Porr's book really helped me understand the rants about how terrible a mother I am. I was able to let go of the need to argue about how it really was and is. No matter how much we actually do, it will never fill the void in them, so they perceive that it must be us doing a crappy job.

Sorry you have to worry so much about her safety. And I am actually sure that I have made many store runs that were inconvenient for me because I was not up for the meltdown if I didn't . My daughter used to have to have a certain kind of cracker, not stale, with exactly the right amount of salt on them. Still do not know what that was about.

[hopeangel]

Thanks co.jo!

I like the Valerie Porr book - I think its time I got it out again for a refresher read!

That made me smile about the crackers! x