Do I return his gift?

[Narellan]

My ex BPD photographer gave me a poster sized photo of my best friend and I in a beautiful country setting. It was taken prior to my relationship with him. He spent a lot of money on it,, and also gave the same one to my best friend. As he is now with my best friend ( my replacement) and as I've cut them both from my life, I want/ need to get rid if the photo ( which is still wrapped up how he gave it to me. I've considered burning it, but the fact he spent lots of money on it stops me. So the other thing I've thought about is to take it around to his parents where he lives and giving it to his mum saying he gave this to me as a gift but I don't want it. He is still out of state for a few weeks so I would not bump into him. I don't want him to see it as me trying to make contact tho. I guess I want him to know I know about their affair but don't want to speak or gave contact with him. Just want to get rid of the photo. I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice on this. X

[Hurtbeyondrepair27]

Do you think you're maybe doing this just to break some sort of contact?

I know you could think of a lot of excuses to justify it... but I think unconsciously...

that is a pretty strong possibility.

Trash it. he is SCREWING your SUPPOSED best friend!

He doesn't deserve your kindness dude.

[Narellan]

Yeah that's what I want to do with it... . It's just such a beautiful photo and has no meaning to me now. And it's his photo. And who knows, he might like a momentous if the two of us that he screwed ( and screwed over)

I think I'll burn it. Might be therapeutic 

[blissful_camper]

If it were me, I'd leave it alone.  I wouldn't return it to him, or his parents.  It was a gift to you, so if you no longer wish to keep it and don't want to destroy it, you could donate it to a women's shelter or another charity.  

I have a couple of questions:

Why are you concerned about the money he spent to make that photograph?  What are the thoughts behind that concern?

Why do you want him to know that you know about his affair with your former best friend?  

[Narellan]

Thanks blissful   I guess to answer your questions the first about the money. He does it hard and doesn't make enough to live off which is why he lives with his parents. They are pensioners and struggle too. I'm a single mum, and careful with my money, although I'm overly generous with people I love. My only attachment to this photo us the fact that he took it and was so excited to give it to me. I hate the photo. I've never been able to look at it. If he'd given me a huge one just with me in it, I would have framed and displayed it. But because I always felt there was something between him and my friend I hate it.

I'd rather he not know that I know about the affair with my friend. That's why I've  kept quiet.

But maybe if he knows I know that will truly stop him from trying to come back. He knows that's a deal breaker for me. We had discussions about her early in our relationship because she was always so flirty with him. She had met him a week earlier than me, and reintroduced us( I knew him as a childhood friend) I asked her if she was interested in him. And she said no way. But then created drama, saying he was interested in both of us, and messaging her too. He showed me the messages to her. Said just friends not interested. A few times after that there were red flag moments that I ignored because by then I was hooked. And sure enough 2 days after our split he's pursuing her. I believe now that something sexual happened between them before he met me, and that they both lied about this. It seems the whole thing was a lie. Because I knew of her other men and she flatly denied being interested in my ex BPD constantly bagging him and telling me to go no contact. Calling him nutjob. I defended him to her for months, but it was this weird thing like she was so jealous. I thought it was because she wanted me to herself, not to be in a relationship. And was jealous of his attention to me because she's so starved for it herself.

Bottom line. They both lied to me and betrayed me, and I was so hurt and humiliated and they were probably thrilled to be deceiving me. All along probably .

I guess I want him to know I'm bit the idiot they think I am, and they did not pull any wool over my eyes. Because he's a bit narcissistic I don't want them to know they devastated me.

But my gut is saying burn the photo.

[LettingGo14]

Narellen --

Is there an option of giving to another friend to store for the time being?  Perhaps it would be good to keep it out of your possession, for your sake, but give you space to decide later what you wish to do.

I know you are working hard here, so give yourself some credit.  It is hard to keep circling our sources of pain.  However, we do have power to reframe our thinking and our approach to things.  No contact is giving you space -- it does not ease the pain, but it does return some boundaries and control to you.   I

What do you think?

[AwakenedOne]

Narellan,

Just a suggestion:

Put the picture of her into your cats litter box. Let the cat deal with it until time to remove the litter. Then dispose of it into your trashcan along with the used litter. Then put it out for the garbage truck on trash day. Then as the garbage man picks it up wave and smile to him as he drives the garbage truck off into the sunset. Then go inside and have a nice herbal tea and relax.

If you don't have a cat that presents a major problem though in dealing with this matter effectively. You might seriously consider buying a cat asap at your local pet store.

Good Luck,

AO

[seeking balance]

Crossed with LettingGo... .

Do nothing right now - making decisions from an emotional standpoint tend to lead to outcomes we don't really want.

Put the picture somewhere you don't have to look at it - you will know when the time is correct to get rid of it.

It is yours - it is a gift... . returning it is only causing unnecessary drama.

Best,

SB

[Narellan]

AO 

I have a birdcage! Great suggestions!

Letting go 14, yeah ill give that some thought. My parents are away for a few months, maybe I could store it over there so it's not constantly in my vision. But then again... . I will never want to look at it. Never ever. So it may be therapeutic to destroy it. Then again I do feel a bit sad about doing that.

[Narellan]

Yes to me returning the photo is kind of breaking NC and I felt a bit weaker when I thought of doing that. That's not an option. I think I'll get it out of sight and deal with it down the track. Good advice guys. Thank you 

[LettingGo14]

I will never want to look at it. Never ever. So it may be therapeutic to destroy it. Then again I do feel a bit sad about doing that.

You don't have to look at it, Narellen.  Yet, destroying it might cross your inner values.   So -- a middle ground would be to store it elsewhere and make the decision at a later date.

As an example, I have an expensive bike of my ex-girlfriends stored in my basement.  It's been gathering dust after she told me several months ago to keep it.   I could have sold it, and thought about it, but I can live with it in the basement for a while, until I am at stage 5 of detachment.  Then, I'll decide.

I do this because it feels like I am taking some of my power back.  It's an object.  I can strip it of meaning.  I can store it out of sight.

Do you know what I mean?

[Narellan]

YES ! I know exactly what you mean. I'm not at that stage yet. I'm not ready to destroy it yet.

I know this because I have kept a zucchini he gave me from his garden for a few months because I couldn't bear to look at it or use it or throw it out. A ZUCCHINI ! FFS . 

I only threw it out a couple of days ago because it was rotting and i was angry with him.

This probably sounds really ridiculous. It does to me too. He gave me a shell off a beach once and it's a little crappy shell, but it's a treasure. One day ill chuck it. The photo hurts more because she's my replacement. And I'm angry he now means more to her than I do. I hate the photo. But I'll store it til a later date.

[LettingGo14]

YES ! I know exactly what you mean. I'm not at that stage yet. I'm not ready to destroy it yet.

I know this because I have kept a zucchini he gave me from his garden for a few months because I couldn't bear to look at it or use it or throw it out. A ZUCCHINI ! FFS .  

I only threw it out a couple of days ago because it was rotting and i was angry with him.

This probably sounds really ridiculous. It does to me too. He gave me a shell off a beach once and it's a little crappy shell, but it's a treasure. One day ill chuck it. The photo hurts more because she's my replacement. And I'm angry he now means more to her than I do. I hate the photo. But I'll store it til a later date.

... . we beat ourselves up when we call it ridiculous!  You don't have to do that, even with the zucchini.  

We give things meaning.  We project meaning to these objects -- and that's OK as we process.   What if you held the shell for a while and accept the pain?   You can tell yourself that you can, and will, survive this pain.  When people say, feel your feelings, but lose the story, it gives us space to be ok.  

The shell can represent something new.  You can hold it now as an example of your strength.

[Narellan]

I'm wishing I'd kept the rotten zucchini and returned that to him

[blissful_camper]

But maybe if he knows I know that will truly stop him from trying to come back. He knows that's a deal breaker for me.

The beautiful thing is that you get to stop him from coming back.  It's not his choice, it's yours.  

We had discussions about her early in our relationship because she was always so flirty with him. She had met him a week earlier than me, and reintroduced us( I knew him as a childhood friend) I asked her if she was interested in him. And she said no way. But then created drama, saying he was interested in both of us, and messaging her too. He showed me the messages to her. Said just friends not interested. A few times after that there were red flag moments that I ignored because by then I was hooked. And sure enough 2 days after our split he's pursuing her. I believe now that something sexual happened between them before he met me, and that they both lied about this.

I understand where you're at with this.  In the early days after my b/u I used to wonder about the contact between my replacement and my ex and how far back it actually went.  When I was processing what had happened, I tried to stick to the facts as much as possible.  When I was feeling anxious I speculated, but I sure wish I hadn't.  It only added to my pain.  

Bottom line. They both lied to me and betrayed me, and I was so hurt and humiliated and they were probably thrilled to be deceiving me. All along probably .

Something that I try to remind myself of is this:  

What I saw was only what was revealed to me.  I wasn't meant to know anything else.  I wager my ex's web of deception is so thick he will get stuck in it one day. I'm just glad that I'm stepped out of the way.

I guess I want him to know I'm bit the idiot they think I am, and they did not pull any wool over my eyes. Because he's a bit narcissistic I don't want them to know they devastated me.

But my gut is saying burn the photo.

Don't give them the satisfaction of finding out that you know about them or their deception.  :)o you want to know what really pisses people like that off?  You living your beautiful life. That means marching forward one day at a time, steady as she goes.  

[1BrickShort]

Another thought is that if you HAD returned it, it may have started another cycle of drama.

I have never returned anything just because it would open the whole thing back up again and then lead to all this blame (her blaming me) and how I am such a horrid person because it was a gift and blah blah blah.

Not what I need.

I'd not acknowledge the receipt of the gift in any way that he can tell. I'm sure he expects you to do just that.

(I'm the type that would have made it disappear immediately though!)

Good luck!

[goldylamont]

Narelian, please burn it all to hell. It's true, we do project ourselves onto objects, so this makes this object powerful for you. this photo is your totem. if you get the desire to burn this photo then by all means go do it. you would want to take precautions, you know, make sure to do it in a safe location and that you were safe. this photo means something to you, it represents something toxic. we live in a society stripped of much of the rituals that served us well in the past. some for good reason, because some rituals are plain stupid. but others are not and have been forgotten. whatever you choose is ok. but if you really feel like going through with it and destroying this stupid photo i can't think of a single way that this would hurt you. but it could help to "burn those contracts" that you've made and have an unhealthy attachment to.

if you were an angry or abusive or violent type, then i would say you need to calm down and give it time, not to burn it. but if you are the loving, giving-too-much or empathic type then i say you should explore the power of your own ability to destroy something. you have the power to completely demolish and incinerate, even your own attachments

[Narellan]

Thank you all so much. Blissful 

I'm not at all angry and violent and feel like the goody two shoes always making sure I do the right thing by others. It's giving me a feeling of glee that I could burn it. I've never destroyed anything.

[Narellan]

Thanks blissful. I've thought about my best friend and him this afternoon and wondering about what their relationship was before he met me. Given they are both liars I will never know, but perhaps I got sucked into this dysfunctional triangle because of their lies, and then I got to thinking " maybe I was the replacement" maybe there was more to their friendship than they said. It gives things a different perspective. Ill never know, nor do I need to. I was lied to and cheated on, and I now have two less friends. Those are the only facts I need to know. I think I can put that to rest a bit now. Although for some reason it bothers me a bit to be the replacement, so I think I'll kill that line of thinking. I haven't thought about that before.

[Dutched]

Narellan

I understand your dilemma, have been there.  Offered it to ex, but was blocked by her wall.

HFexBPDw said, just before leaving “ all material can be replaced” => objects can be replaced, like we are in a way…

She left with a few boxes and some clothes.

Later I asked and offered to pick up her cloths/shoes. Almost 3(!) yrs. it was stored in plastic bags…never had the gut’s to collect it.

In the final stage of the divorce, furniture, etc. had to be split.

On the list she made, she “concentrated” (destroying?) on claiming my family items (3-4 generations). Not successful for other legal reasons

She didn’t claim any of her family items / a tea set which was “holy” to her since her youth / her musical instruments / important papers as diplomas(!)/ labour/pension contracts

Yes she claimed real minor old items, like a toaster, plastic storage boxes.

So I left torturing my brain of what to do with her alleged emotional/important belongings. I wrote a letter in which I offered all and to react within 2 weeks.  No response at all!  

My S19 wasn’t interested in keeping them as a reminder “for later”.

So I destroyed it, made pictures of it and mailed ex. Hard? Yes! Did she had a choice? Yes, but is filled with  infantile shame in order to acknowledge her “defeat”, to give up her being “control”.  

She left with a few boxes and some clothes.

A 3 decades before, she came with a few boxes and some clothes as she left her parents in a same emotional outburst…

[goldylamont]

Thank you all so much. Blissful 

I'm not at all angry and violent and feel like the goody two shoes always making sure I do the right thing by others. It's giving me a feeling of glee that I could burn it. I've never destroyed anything.

i thought you might like this blog post Narellen. it's ok to destroy, as long as you own it:

True creative responsibility for one’s life involves more than positive visualisation and action towards our dreams.  It also means destroying that which is no longer relevant... .

www.toko-pa.com/2010/05/19/dreamspeak-owning-your-destroy/

[blissful_camper]

Thanks blissful. I've thought about my best friend and him this afternoon and wondering about what their relationship was before he met me. Given they are both liars I will never know, but perhaps I got sucked into this dysfunctional triangle because of their lies, and then I got to thinking " maybe I was the replacement" maybe there was more to their friendship than they said. It gives things a different perspective. Ill never know, nor do I need to. I was lied to and cheated on, and I now have two less friends. Those are the only facts I need to know. I think I can put that to rest a bit now. Although for some reason it bothers me a bit to be the replacement, so I think I'll kill that line of thinking. I haven't thought about that before.

While in the r/s I experienced Triangulation with other women, but at the time, I thought that he was trying to get a reaction from me and that was it.  (I didn't react to that behavior.)  He was less subtle as the end of the relationship neared when he asked my opinion about helping my replacement purchase a car.  This should bother me, right?  It did, but it doesn't anymore.   

I knew my ex for years.  We became good friends (platonic) while working together many years ago.  When I think back to those early days (he was married then) he showed me what I would experience myself years later.  Back then I attributed his behavior to his unhappy marriage.  Wrong!  It was his disorder.  I eventually experienced what his ex wife experienced.  My replacement is now experiencing what I experienced. 

In time you'll come to understand that it isn't about you. 

[Perdita]

Many years ago I destroyed a photo of someone I had been dating.  It was also a special photo.  The location was significant. No other copies.  He loved it and wanted me to have it.  Anyway, he treated me like crap towards the end.  Part of moving on for me was to burn the photo.  First and only time I've done something like that.  Took it out and burned it on the barbie.  Felt a bit uncomfortable at first doing this, but it was good for me.  I felt I was taking control and moving on. It worked.

He broke your heart, so why even care about how much money he spend on it?  Money after all has far less value than someone's love!

You don't have to be so nice and caring all the time.  It is possible to be too darn good for our own good, you know. 

How can you even stand to look at a photo of yourself with a supposedly best friend that betrayed you?   A photo taken by the man that hurt you with her? Either destroy it or store it somewhere other than in your home.  Right now it is just going to keep serving as yet another reminder of how you were betrayed by 2 people you loved. 

[Changingman]

Have you considered this sounds like a picture of narcissistic abuse/Triangulation?

I love you sister but, vanity is very destructive in this place you are. Still trying to not treat people as objects, objects as people myself.

Was the object of your affection 'good enough' for you, were you 'good enough' for the object, was the object big enough, shiny enough, was it the right colour etc... .

Are these the healthy questions for us?

Now you have another object, catharsis?

Why not think about what would be a more realistic expression for the work, artistically! What would be a deeper honesty to this piece?

Get some paint/hammer girl, and work it, this is false/fake/dishonest unfinished art.

Express yourself x : )

[Perdita]

Have you considered this sounds like a picture of narcissistic abuse/Triangulation?

Maybe the equivelant of a serial killer keeping mementoes of his victims and getting off on it.  I wonder how many other photos like this he has... .

[Narellan]

Thanks everyone.

Yes he's got narcissistic traits for sure. I'm going to go home today and burn it. I think it will be liberating to do so. I never liked/ valued the photo and its a token of a fu#ked up Triangulation. By discovering their affair I moved myself to a position of power in this triangle. I see myself now as not the victim anymore, but the persecutor ( albeit silent one). She has become his victim as I know he's with her to hurt me, well initially that would have been in his head. And he's now comforting her ( rescuer) because I am the b___ that dissolved my friendship with her.

I'm happy with this. Far better than the weeks I spent being the victim. I have a new found freedom and strength now. Thanks everyone for your input. I'm far from a materialistic person but I attach to objects that remind me if special times. When I look at it like that, this wasn't/ isn't a special time. It's a symbol of a lie I got sucked into. And I can't believe I entertained any thought of returning it. Drama plus if I'd done that and I'd become the victim again. No way... . And he doesn't need to know I know about them. He is out of my life regardless. And that is my choice and in my control.

I'm so glad to have thought this through. Quite excited now to get home and burn that fu#ker 

[goldylamont]

Thanks everyone.

Yes he's got narcissistic traits for sure. I'm going to go home today and burn it. I think it will be liberating to do so. I never liked/ valued the photo and its a token of a fu#ked up Triangulation. By discovering their affair I moved myself to a position of power in this triangle. I see myself now as not the victim anymore, but the persecutor ( albeit silent one). She has become his victim as I know he's with her to hurt me, well initially that would have been in his head. And he's now comforting her ( rescuer) because I am the b___ that dissolved my friendship with her.

I'm happy with this. Far better than the weeks I spent being the victim. I have a new found freedom and strength now. Thanks everyone for your input. I'm far from a materialistic person but I attach to objects that remind me if special times. When I look at it like that, this wasn't/ isn't a special time. It's a symbol of a lie I got sucked into. And I can't believe I entertained any thought of returning it. Drama plus if I'd done that and I'd become the victim again. No way... . And he doesn't need to know I know about them. He is out of my life regardless. And that is my choice and in my control.

I'm so glad to have thought this through. Quite excited now to get home and burn that fu#ker 

Good for you! Let us know how it goes.

I had an item that my ex left at my house for months after she left and i wanted to destroy it so bad--but i couldn't as it wasn't mine; it was a porcelain cup her mother had given her (passed down generation to generation). and i always loved and respected her mother/family, so i knew it would be terrible for me to destroy it--otherwise i would have shattered it into powder. my ex i feel was leaving it behind just to have some anchor left here or something to blame me for if i destroyed it. after her 3rd FLAKE to come and get the damn thing i simply decided for myself that i would take care of it myself. so i waited one day and drove over to her new house while she was at work. i put the cup and the last of any items in a bag and left it in her back yard then sent her a text that it was there when she got back. of course she b___ed and complained that it would get stolen, etc. but this wasn't my problem any more--i wanted it out of my home, i didn't want to be tempted to smash it any more and frankly i was tired of her using it as an excuse to flake over and over when she said she would come get it.

so i didn't get the same satisfaction of being able to demolish it, but i did feel empowered. i was sending her several messages at once--one was that i didn't want her stuff over here. two was that if she wants to flake, fine, i'll handle it on my own in my own way and you'll just have to deal. and three was that i removed any doubt in her head that i cared about trying to see her b/c of this object. i feel like she was trying to hold it over my head like i should be waiting on my toes for her to come and get this thing. so by taking it over to her house when she wasn't there i wanted her to understand that i didn't care at all about trying to see her--i just didn't want her stuff in my presence. it was hard but i'm glad i did it this way.

wishing you luck in destroying this thing though. Perdita that was an awesome story too!

[Perdita]

Perdita that was an awesome story too!

Thanks.  I have a fear of fire so that made it all the more significant that I was able to do that.  

[goldylamont]

you know this also makes me think of another story that occurred after my breakup while my ex was still living with me--i had gone out with a friend and outside of a bar we found two paperback novels sitting on top of a trash can. it was odd, not sure who left them but they were ragged and looked abandoned so i took them home. my ex found them on the table the next day and with this weird expression on her face she asked where the books came from. i told her we just found them on a trash can and they looked cool so i brought them back. then she tells me that one of the novels was her favorite book of all time; she asked me if she could have it. weird things like this happen to me all the time btw.

anyways i told her sure take it if it's your favorite as i wasn't attached to it. i asked her though what happened to original copy of the book since it was her favorite--get this! she told me that one of her ex boyfriends stole it and BURNED IT when they broke up, years ago! isn't that crazy? good for him.

at this point in time i didn't know about BPD but i was suffering terribly. i felt it was fate in some way that i literally found her favorite book in the world and gave it to her--the same book someone else destroyed. and i don't regret giving it to her; not that she deserved it at all. one of the biggest things i needed to prove to myself then was that i wasn't this abusive man that she was making me out to be--so i don't feel good about giving her this book only because it was nice. rather i feel like the universe was showing how untrue her projections really were. i felt like ripping apart everything she owned, but i stopped because there was no way i was going to let her 'win' by making me out to be the crazy ex--i was coming into an understanding that this person was a liar and betrayer, and i didn't want any of my (understandable) reactions to cloud the bs she was spewing. still--this rule was only for stuff she owned, the stuff that was mine that had any connection to her i trashed it or put it away.

[Perdita]

Interesting coincidence that you found that book.  Quite possibly the ex didn't even steal her copy.  BP's like to play the victim when describing past relationships.  I am rather curious now as to the name of that novel.

[Narellan]

I'm curious about that book too. Maybe she put it there for you to find. If someone wanted to trash it it would have been in the bin? Or the ex finally ditched it.

It's just my suspicious mind but that is really the most bizarre story! Reminds me of the movie serendipity . I'm feeling really good about this now.

I think I was apprehensive to destroy it because it was a gift from him ( he also gave the same to her). And I still have not totally detached from him. But I have from her and I don't want reminders of her in my life. I have to photo also on a disk. No need to destroy the disk tho because its not so in my face and there are hundreds of pics just of me, and also if her and I . Maybe in time ill delete the ones if her, but they aren't bothering me at this point.

My exBPD is a minimalist. His ex gf once left a brand new jumper at his house and was contacting him to get him to send it to her. This was in the first weeks I was with him. He simply took it to the op shop. Never looked back , no desire to send it to her. She was upset he just discarded her item so ruthlessly. And so I will discard thus in the same matter if fact manner. I think it will be hard tho, it was really hard throwing out the zucchini 

[Perdita]

I think it will be hard tho, it was really hard throwing out the zucchini 

Think I'd have eaten it just so I could poop it out later. Would have been cathartic.