Does Anyone Else Have Problems With BPD's Family?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Ok, obviously our BPD's have had some not so great parenting and that is how they ended up how they are, but does anyone find that family and kids are also sabotaging any progress you make with them?

My BPD's parents and sister are absolutely killing me.  They are doing all they can to trigger her into a horrible state.  In past 6 weeks alone they have

1. Forced her (well me) to pay for a graduation trip with them that she did not want to go on which sent her over the edge because we have debt problems

2. On trip were verbally abusive to the point that she flipped out and could not stay in the same hotel room with her sister due to her sister being verbally abusive.  (I screwed up and flew her home)

3. Told her, pursuing her career that she got a degree in was a waste of money.  She just graduated 3 months ago with an art degree and now they are telling her that?  How crushing that must feel

4. Pulling the switcheroo alot.  ie... Asked me to help them pay for something, and then bailing on it after I did which stressed wife and myself out because once again strapped for cash

All of this resulted in arguments.  I do not want these people in my life.  I do not like these people.  I can handle their crap and not let it phase me as much, besides the financial burden, but my wife is getting emotionally wrecked by these people. 

To make matters worse, our son who loves spending time with their grandparents says today

"So when you are going to go to work mom."

When she replies, "I have some houses to clean today, and laundry to do" 

He replies "... ok then what"

she replies "I need to go to the art studio to do some pieces"

he responds "no you do not"

the only place I can figure that he learned to be so dismissive of her and her life is from those grandparents...

The other thing is the kids hate my wife and I fighting naturally, or her berating me, but alot of the fights are basically me taking the brunt of punishment cause kids do not pick up room, do not behave at school, and are lazy slobs basically.  Now I know this is not my fault, I stay on them about that stuff, but I cannot hold their hands all day long at 14 and 12, and she needs to learn to deal with it better.  The problem is the kids do not seem to care that they are getting me torched and that while it is not fair, their behavior is pushing us to the point of breaking.  I cannot handle taking the blame for a 14 year old who does not take his medication after I bring it to him, hand him water, and tell me 5 times to do it, or them throwing clothes out of their drawers onto the floor, or them leaving food and trash all over the house, or the fact they have broken 3 cell iphones in past year.  I can stay on them, but I cannot force them to not do it to start with.  Getting blasted for it though has got me to the point I want to leave, permanently. 

My wife holds me responsible for the kids bad behavior, I have to get the verbal beating and then take care of everything.  The kids do not seem to care that I am taking the heat for their behavior, nor that I am paying for their mistakes... .   I mean cmon... They have $2k in dental work because they refuse to brush their teeth, and I ask them every night about it.  I explain that $2k could be toys and crap for them, but they just do not care. 

I can handle all of that, and deal with it.  I cant handle kids for most part even if it does seem alone, but its hard.  The part I cannot handle though is her parents coming in and invading our lives.  She does not seem to want to cut them compleltely out, and I do not know if they would allow it.  They would just come into my house without asking as is.  The only solution is to basically blow up at them which means a blow up with wife, or just leave them all and their wackiness

How do some of you handle bad inlaws and deal with SOs who get trashed and depressed over them?  Does anyone else get trashed over kids?

[hurthusband]

Ok, obviously our BPD's have had some not so great parenting and that is how they ended up how they are, but does anyone find that family and kids are also sabotaging any progress you make with them?

My BPD's parents and sister are absolutely killing me.  They are doing all they can to trigger her into a horrible state.  In past 6 weeks alone they have

1. Forced her (well me) to pay for a graduation trip with them that she did not want to go on which sent her over the edge because we have debt problems

2. On trip were verbally abusive to the point that she flipped out and could not stay in the same hotel room with her sister due to her sister being verbally abusive.  (I screwed up and flew her home)

3. Told her, pursuing her career that she got a degree in was a waste of money.  She just graduated 3 months ago with an art degree and now they are telling her that?  How crushing that must feel

4. Pulling the switcheroo alot.  ie... Asked me to help them pay for something, and then bailing on it after I did which stressed wife and myself out because once again strapped for cash

All of this resulted in arguments.  I do not want these people in my life.  I do not like these people.  I can handle their crap and not let it phase me as much, besides the financial burden, but my wife is getting emotionally wrecked by these people. 

To make matters worse, our son who loves spending time with their grandparents says today

"So when you are going to go to work mom."

When she replies, "I have some houses to clean today, and laundry to do" 

He replies "... ok then what"

she replies "I need to go to the art studio to do some pieces"

he responds "no you do not"

the only place I can figure that he learned to be so dismissive of her and her life is from those grandparents...

The other thing is the kids hate my wife and I fighting naturally, or her berating me, but alot of the fights are basically me taking the brunt of punishment cause kids do not pick up room, do not behave at school, and are lazy slobs basically.  Now I know this is not my fault, I stay on them about that stuff, but I cannot hold their hands all day long at 14 and 12, and she needs to learn to deal with it better.  The problem is the kids do not seem to care that they are getting me torched and that while it is not fair, their behavior is pushing us to the point of breaking.  I cannot handle taking the blame for a 14 year old who does not take his medication after I bring it to him, hand him water, and tell me 5 times to do it, or them throwing clothes out of their drawers onto the floor, or them leaving food and trash all over the house, or the fact they have broken 3 cell iphones in past year.  I can stay on them, but I cannot force them to not do it to start with.  Getting blasted for it though has got me to the point I want to leave, permanently. 

My wife holds me responsible for the kids bad behavior, I have to get the verbal beating and then take care of everything.  The kids do not seem to care that I am taking the heat for their behavior, nor that I am paying for their mistakes... .   I mean cmon... They have $2k in dental work because they refuse to brush their teeth, and I ask them every night about it.  I explain that $2k could be toys and crap for them, but they just do not care. 

I can handle all of that, and deal with it.  I cant handle kids for most part even if it does seem alone, but its hard.  The part I cannot handle though is her parents coming in and invading our lives.  She does not seem to want to cut them compleltely out, and I do not know if they would allow it.  They would just come into my house without asking as is.  The only solution is to basically blow up at them which means a blow up with wife, or just leave them all and their wackiness

How do some of you handle bad inlaws and deal with SOs who get trashed and depressed over them?  Does anyone else get trashed over kids?

[tired-of-it-all]

My in laws were not abusive but they were a little crazy.  Her family reunions were sometimes the poster child for disfunction.  After I started getting help from a T and started attending alanon, I realized that I don't have to put myself through this.  I don't go to their functions anymore.  I don't let myself be pushed into things that I don't want to do.

Based on the behavior of your in laws, I would refuse to interact with them in the future.  I would say no to their attempts to drag me into their chaos.  It is amazing how simple this is once we try it.  We allow ourselves to be used and misused.  You have the power to say no.  What you wife does is her problem.

[Stalwart]

My wife had trouble her entire life with her family and getting along well with them so I can understand exactly where you are with this. It is not only possible but probable that her mother is also BPD (just isn't diagnosed because it's the rest of the world) and I really don't know about her brother but I can only explain him as obnoxious the majority of the time.

On the other hand her family thought I was the best thing that ever happened to her so I've always been in pretty good standing with the exception of the odd problemwith her brother that's always been resolved.

My wife had an affair. When her family found out it was a combination of horror for the fact they thought when I found out after it was over that I'd leave her, and they would be left with her totally dysregulated and calling them fifty times as day. On the other hand they had just so much over the years with her financial struggles prior to meeting me and failed relationships that they would have just given up on her. It's always been touch and go when we'd visit if we'd stay or I'd be dragging her out of there over it just being nasty.

Anyway when it came to light and I found out she had the affair her family couldn't believe I'd stayed, long story short it put me on a better footing even still and it brought about her diagnosis which considering it's hereditary also put her mother's issues into a better light.

It was still really difficult between her and her mother. I talked to her mother and told her that she didn't need to give my wife advice or even have opinions about her issues she only needed to love her, support her and leave the rest up to me. All you have to do is show her the simplest respect of a mother who loves her daughter and cared about her and I didn't think that was a lot to ask. She took that into practice and everthing changed. No more negative opinions, just support and encouragement and telling her she was proud of her progress and looking for the good things in my wifes character to comment on.

A year latter it's night and day. Only two weeks ago I was talking to her mother and she broke down on the phone to me saying how the last few months have been the best months of their lives. She looks forward to my wife calling and their conversations when before she dreaded answering the phone. Sometimes all it takes is for people to better understand the illness and the problems they have and use some common sense, understanding, empathy and show some respect to really make some real differences.

Not saying this will work for you but it did for me, my wife and her relationship with her whole family. Even her brother, step father, Father, Aunts and Uncles bought into it and it's all totally different ; for now anyway and it's been the better part of a year. A really good year actually because I do the exact same thing.

[AlwaysFrustrated]

Wow Stalwart your choice in name matches your personality.  I have had to deal with questionable emails being sent to individuals but not confronting full blown infidelity. I admire your strength.

[MissyM]

My husband's family is a nightmare.  His father is an NPD addict (now living on the streets) and his Mom is BPD, who hates any women in my husband's (and his brother's) life.  I no longer associate with them and neither do my kids.  His mother has extended her hatred of women to my daughter and has been abusive towards her.  Suffice it to say, she has made up so many lies and stories about me that I recognize how dangerous she is.  Unfortunately, she told the same lies to my brother-in-law and he sides with his Mom.  Even though the brother-in-law knows she is crazy and won't ever spend more than 30 minutes with her.  Brother-in-law has his own issues and I wonder if he isn't BPD, too.  He hasn't ever had a relationship that lasted more than 3 years and he is 51 years old.

The good thing about my dBPDh having such a crazy family, he really appreciates the calmness of my family.  He never had the kind of family get togethers that I grew up with.  When we take our kids to my family, he always gets a little choked up over how pleasant it is.  Do you spend time with your family?  Might be a good solution.

[hurthusband]

Mine situation is a bit weirder...

My wife's family thinks I am the greatest thing ever too, BUT they do not give a rat's ass about me from what I can tell.  I feel and my my wife feels that they are just thankful that they found somebody to take my wife off her hands.  I try and assure my wife that is not the case, but I think it is true.  They constantly do things though to make my life a pain.  My wife's mother is most likely BPD.  Mental problems are rampant in her family.  Her 3rd cousin killed herself and her kids.  Her grandmother has to be BPD.  My wife's father died in an accident when she was 6 months old and the step father has been like a father to her, but is a very strange man.  I know that all my wife's inheritance was blown on different business schemes he had until he finally settled into a job.  They constantly demean my wife's choices in life as an artist and prop up her sister who is probably BPD too and has a rage that is horrible.  They all have no friends, and do nothing with others.  They invade my home and my life, and my wife will say nothing.  They are great to my stepkids, but basically my father in law seems to value boy scouts more than their school as they can be failing in a class, have homework, and he will insist they go to events. 

I will show up to Boy Scout events and be told just to drop them off, and then go to work only to find out that they signed me up to watch the kids the whole day at the event so its basically no event for the kids if I do not stay.

I have always been cordial with them.  I get along with them, but after they torched me for $5k so far this year because they think of nobody else... I have had it.  The final straw was them constantly embarrassing my wife by putting down my wife to people they meet.  Then telling her pursuing her dream is bull___...   That is just cruel

My wife on the other hand... I see how she ended up how she did.  She had no chance in that household.  No love, I do not think I have ever seen any of them hug.  No positive reinforcement, no caring

Examples

my wife cheated on me.  Told me she did even... three times in fact.  Took her back every time.  Her parents made no comment on any of it.  I am okay with that.  bit private matter

my wife on pills and drunk one night lost her engagement ring, broke into a house, vandalized it, came home with a noose around her neck and busted the oil pan on her car.  I went and paid for the damages even though the people had no clue or idea who did it to the home.  The parents did not know so I excuse this.  They had to know though she lost a $10k engagement ring when I had to buy her a new one

my wife attempted suicide.  I rushed her to the hospital and she ended up in a facility for a week.  Her parents never addressed the issue or asked about her

my wife attempted suicide a second time.  Kids found her.  Parents never asked how she was or anything once I got her help again

my wife physically abused me, basically cost me my job, then said we needed to have a joint suicide after also busting up 2 cars.  I went to her parents saying situation, and asking for help.  They did nothing.  They never even called her to see if she was ok.  They ignored the whole thing.  In fact, her sister told my wife afterwards that "I told him that its his job in life now that you are married to do anything to make you happy, and that he is failing"  She told me that I needed to just make you happy.  Nevermind being physically abused, mentally abused, and her sister talking joint suicide.

These people do not care about my wife.  The worst part is my wife then projects their hate onto my parents.  She thinks my mother is out to get her cause my mother missed an art show and would not rent her a studio space.  Meanwhile her parents are gouging our wallets, demeaning her...

Yea, I am the crazy person.  I should have ran away long ago

[MissyM]

Hurt, I have several similarities.  My dBPDh was addicted to drugs and went to rehab, his family blames me for his drug addiction (even though his father is a drug addict).  Then my dBPDh switched to going to hookers, once he quit drugs and didn't stay with AA.  His mother doesn't know about this but his brother does and thinks it  is perfectly reasonable, once again must be my fault.  They do not encourage him to stay in therapy, go to 12 step, or in any way recover.  They tell him just to divorce me and he won't have any problems.  They see when he works on himself, that he distances from them because they are toxic.  Boundaries with people like this have to be very firm.  I have nothing to say to my in-laws, my boundary is that I have absolutely no relationship with them.  Every time they have entered in our lives, they have wrecked havoc.  I just don't want to do that.  Can you set some boundaries with her family?

[hurthusband]

I am not good with boundaries.  Which is my downfall.  I suppose I try and lead by example, but nobody seems to take note of my example in this household.  I told my wife how I felt, and it went disasterous.  In fact, told her 4 hours ago.  That they are toxic to both of us.  In a way, I wish my inlaws would tell my wife to divorce me, but they will not because they do not want to be close to her nor have her come to them. 

I do not think I will be going to any function with them anymore.  Kids is a different story.  They tend to push my wife's buttons on purpose which results in her blowing up on me.  They do not seem to care about this.

I struggle because I know it is wrong for me to put myself in all of this, and I do not think boundaries will work.  I think it will just result in the same thing, us divorcing.  Difference being the battle to it.  I am battling right now every day with her over a boundary on what to spend on a new car.  I tried to compromise and go mid way.  Not good enough. 

My anger is finally building though.  I never had anger before.  There is only one person in my life that has provoked me to anger.  There is only one problem true problem in my life and that is my wife and her family.  I can tolerate her family if my wife backed me up.  The weird thing is that while she considers her family her enemy, she seems to hold them in higher regard than me. 

[tired-of-it-all]

Setting boundaries is one of the hardest things to learn to do.  They have to know that you mean business.  I had let things with my wife go for so long that she just didn't believe me.  I did not have that situation with my kids or employees.  They always knew that I meant business.  Not so with the wife. 

As I tried to set boundaries I found that I could not do it nicely.  She did not hear me unless I screamed.  This is very bad behavior on my part.  Eventually I moved out.  I saw the family every day but lived in a different home for nearly a year.  She was devastated.  I moved back because I was tired of paying rent, tired of not living in my home, and tired of not seeing my kids all the time. 

Moving out got her attention.  Not in all areas but in many.  She now knows that I mean business. 

This was not a process without lots of pain.  There is still a lot of pain.  I wish I could have handled it all with more maturity but I did the best I knew how at the time.  Probably should have filed for divorce but I didn't and still haven't.

[Stalwart]

Posted by: AlwaysFrustrated

Insert Quote

“Wow Stalwart your choice in name matches your personality.  I have had to deal with questionable emails being sent to individuals but not confronting full blown infidelity. I admire your strength.”

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I’ll just take a second and address this first Always. Yes I did stay after an incident of an affair that took place without my knowledge for just over a year. Truth is I was always the type to say I would never tolerate infidelity. Sometimes our own presumptions of who we are is our own worst enemies.

Saying something and thinking who we are is one thing but being confronted with a real-life situation is another. First you have to take into consideration two things, one I always loved her and still do, secondly if I weren’t the type to have always been so adamant in nature about affairs, my wife may not have escalated to the point she did that complicated everything ten-fold.

After it ended with him (still without my knowledge) she found herself trapped in a hell she’d created for herself with anger, remorse, fear and total hopelessness. Her family knew after it ended but advised her not to tell me because they “though I’d turf her out to the curb.” As a result she had no one to turn to and soon imploded in complete dysregulation that was indescribable. There is a lot more that happened that I won’t get into but to summarize; had I not been that type and been more approachable she would have at least had someone to help her, instead of being so hopelessly alone struggling through all the emotions and despair.

Affairs happen for reasons whether it’s BPD related or a perfectly ‘healthy’, 'normal' person. It’s never as simple as one-sided and probably everyone involved in the affair is in some way culpable to it having been created. None of that makes it right though and nothing anyone could say ever will. It just isn't right.

I could have left immediately and felt totally justified to myself and everyone else. I could have found someone else easily if that’s what I chose, I could have just been a bachelor and been quite happy as well or I could have stayed to try and understand what had happened instead of just walking away in anger with a ruptured ego – point is, the choices were entirely mine to make.

In the beginning I could never have left any person in the state of dysregulation she was in because she couldn’t even comprehend the repercussions of the actions she was taking and she was seriously out of control and a real danger to herself, if not others as well. I wouldn’t leave any human to their own devises in that situation, let alone someone I loved and had a commitment to honour and protect through sickness, health, better, worse or richer or poorer.

Just recognizing that I couldn’t leave, opened up the avenue as to why in my mind. The answer was right in front of my face. I still loved her and wanted better for myself and also for her than what she’d allowed herself and our marriage to become and the subsequent pain it caused for both of us. As well there was the dismal future she was looking at with regards to her relationship with all her friends and particularly her own family that had eroded because of her decision and probably would have totally collapsed leaving her absolutely alone in this. That doesn't even begin to address having to live with herself after losing the only long-term relationship and marriage she'd ever been in.

It did take an amazing amount of strength to pull myself through it. It did on her part too. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t and never will condone going outside of a relationship. Infidelity is not acceptable, but on the other hand we’re all just humans and we can make bad mistakes that don’t necessarily determine that we’re inherently bad people. An affair can happen in ‘normal’ relationships that don’t have the mitigating factor of BPD.

I would never consider or even entertain the slightest idea of a round 2, it wouldn’t happen. I can understand wanting to leave a relationship if you’re not happy but not that, and never twice. We have firm and unshakable boundaries set on this with zero tolerance for either of us entertaining any type of improper communications or conduct going forward. Once; shame on her - twice shame on me.

For her part she’s gone so far from that time in awareness, learning, therapy and making our relationship better that I do believe her when she says “I would never do that again to myself, to you, to my family or to the grandkids.”

I know it just barely scratches the surface of a very complex situation and it is difficult for so many to totally understand and accept. Like I said; I will never condom an affair and though it sounds a little twisted and even more confusing; her affair was probably the best thing that happened to her, to me and to our relationship. It allowed both of us to recognize how important our relationship is to each other and that every bit of change and work going forward is worth it not to lose that. It also brought awareness and diagnosis to her illness so we could both go forward and learn how to interact better in a more positive way. That isn't just about the onus being on her to change herself but just as necessary for me to learn how to change myself as well to meet the exceptional needs of a relationship with inherent challenges such as a mental illness. It's also just about learning how to be a more attentive husband who can weather a long term relationship and constantly bring love, life, spirit and togetherness into it.

Sad to say in some respects but reaching down and finding forgiveness in my heart brought with it all the opportunities to change everything in our relationship. We all know that BPDs are prone to extremes but when that extreme is focused in on common goals of building a better, more honest and more complete relationship with open communications, caring and loving – it’s a real game changer and she has embraced  it and is living it just as much as I am with just the same level of mindfulness and commitment.

I am truly proud of how she has progressed and on my part, even though I’m naturally humble, I’m also proud of how I’ve overcome such a challenging and despairing situation and come out the other side a better, more compassionate, loving, caring and more understanding human being.  

So to anyone who had trouble understanding staying after an affair I hope this has helped explain it a little better. It isn't about co-dependency at all. I had all the choices and I'm quite able to have taken any of those options easily. It's totally about love, compassion and wanting so much better for myself and for her. It's about a marriage and I don't think any marriage is care-free without challenges or problems. We've both grown from the experience and I guess it comes down to recognizing that love and marriage is all about growth of two people toward the goal of happiness.

[hurthusband]

Tired...

I hear what you are saying completely.  I feel the same way.  I would easily move out if I could.  Unfortunately, because she killed her credit before she met me, EVERYTHING is in my name and she has no steady income.  I could moveout, but that is another bill I have and she can basically not pay a thing without penalty to herself.  Just cannot support two lives.  Especially with our medical bills.  Already up above $15k this year on kids and herself. 

So I am stuck there or to leave completely and permanently.  Divorce is pretty much the only options.

I finally told her I could not handle all of this anymore.  I caved and decided to get her the Lexus she wanted on the condition that she drives it 5 years and not 3 years.  Then I told her that the insurance company was wiring the money for the accident so we could use that to put down.  Now the body shop the insurance company had us take it took dragged their feet a week before getting the estimate and its been 2 weeks since the accident with no settlement.  She BECAME FURIOUS over that.  How everyone else gets a check much quicker, which I agreed with her, but what could I do?  I am working so I cannot just get mad at everyone, and I honestly do not think they really care if I did.

Not to mention, I did not have the wreck at 2 am.  I am the one getting her a car that is 50% more than the budget we set out for because she refuses to drive a Honda or Nissan, or Ford even if it is a late model.  I let her know that its not fair.  Its not fair how she treats me, its not fair how her parents treat me.  Went all down hill.  To make matters worse I had to let her know the vehicle she liked just did a body change 3 months ago which is something that REALLY set her off.  She not only wanted a Lexus, but a Lexus without Navigation she says looks dated, but she has no intention of ever using the navigation.  She also hates body style changes because she feels that makes her car look dated.

Whole thing spun out of control.  I refused to take 83 straight calls from her.  She kept on how I do not love her nor care for her.  I finally told her that honestly death is a relief rather than dealing with all of this crap.  She may appreciate me if I was dead.  Of course, she went into how she would kill herself and kids if that happened. I suppose I gotta take that serious since she did attempt suicide before and her cousin did in fact kill herself AND her kids. 

She demanded a divorce... this is best part.  She said though that I owe her and that I still have to buy her the Lexus even though we are divorcing.  Today she says if I want to fix things I need to really start changing myself and be more loving.  No clue how to do that.  I mean I know she wnats me to stop working as much, but also make more money (paradox there), she wants me to support her more and love her more.  Well thats odd because she doesnt even say I love you to me alot of times and I do.  She says I am in her space when I try and hug her.  I skip going to the gym, cut out Church, and literally spend an average of 2 hours a week doing something I like be it a TV show or something.  Rest of week is completely devoted to what she wants...   Not sure what more I can do

[OnceConfused]

HurtHusband:

Forgive me and allow me to be BLUNT here with you, without sugarcoating the reality.

1. You need to look inward to your soul and ask why you let her step on you like a doormat.

2. Your suffering in this marriage comes not entirely from her but also from you as well. for example:

   a. you take her back like there is nothing with her being on drug and vandalizing people's house. WHere is your line on the sand?

   b. you take her back not one but three times from cheating. WHere is your line on the sand?

   c. She wrecked the car at 2 am (perhaps after some drinks?), and now demanded a Lexus, and you gave in to it, even when the money is not there. Where is your line on the  sand?

   

Hursthusband, where is your line on the sand? when will you say enough is enough? .

The longer you deny the reality , the longer you give the excuses (she will die with her child ... . ), well the longer your suffering will extend.

So ask yourself again and again -- where is my line on the sand?

[waverider]

HurtHusband

Your wife knows nothing but dysfunctionality, the disorder is probably in the genes and then reinforced by her upbringing.

She blames her family, but can't break the bond. That may be because the bond was never really there to be broken, so she is actually stuck in trying form it. (You can't give up what you never had). she cannot find independence from her family

You struggle because she can't make the break from a toxic influence. You see this as unfair and so you would like them to reciprocate the desire for a bond. As they are still part of the scene you also feel it unfair that you seem to be left to hold the can by yourself, with not only no help from them, but them actually making it worse.

It is a melting pot that you can't stand back from, as there are too many people involved. As you say you struggle with boundaries, but with so many influences involved it is even easier for others to work around them, and hard for you not to be dragged into triangulation.

Your head feels like it is exploding at the futility of everything... you give up and fall back on the role of rescuer as every other avenue is just too hard, you have no support

If your wife would let go, then what would it matter what her family thinks or does, as you could set that aside, but they are intertwined with everything so it is hard to 'quarantine' their part in this.

This will take immense strength on your part to stand back and simplify the dynamics and not be drawn into things over which you have no control.

I too have to deal with my partners toxic family. Except they are not openly dysfunctional, rather high achievers who always appear "appropriate'. The actions however do not match the appropriate words and pleasant demeanor.

[hurthusband]

Its just so hard... She keeps saying its me... its my fault.  I am not appreciating her. I am not loving her.  I am messed up.  If I am crazy, how do i know?

If i leave her life gets worse... the kids... the guilt I feel

I cannot live with being a bad person.  Its my problem as much as hers.  I cannot let go of her because I care how she feels about me so much.  Why?  I go to therapy... marriage counseling...

we both feel fervent we are victims... I do not want her to fix anything for me, just be respectful and thankful.  She, id o not know what she wants...

right now its a divorce and a new lexus... . she has no now, she has nothing... what happens to her? to the kids?

How do i move on and look for happiness when its like that for them?

I can make her happy by destroying everything that is me and everyone around me, but then what... it wont solve anything.  I want it all to stop.  I think alot that there is only one way.  I am sick... there is only one way

[Stalwart]

HURT: I'm not tryiong to promote you leaving it's not my thing but I just want to challenge on thing you said: "... . she has no now, she has nothing... what happens to her?... . "

They are awesome survivors HURT. You really have no idea what she would move on to. Some have the knack for just moving on and meeting others with no past behind them and no problems going forward. The problem is a lot of them can move on easier and quicker than we could ever think about getting over it.

What about the kids? Wow! If she's threatened to kill herself and them I really don't know how safe or stable her presence with them is and I'd really be questioning their safety under any circumstances. There are no easy alternatives or answers, sometimes it just seems like there are so many questions to even begin to think about solutions.

Do you think you're strong enough to live this forever because without your health and strength the entire thing falls apart anyway. I'm glad you're in therapy and I would certainly seek professional advice given the situation you're in.

In the meantime you try and stay strong but be mindful that hole she's trying to fill with material articles is never going to be satisfied no matter how desperately or what state of finance you put yourself into trying. Sad but just the truth.

[hurthusband]

I think i might have a deathwish.  I woke up today feeling peaceful.  Slept in my car last night.  I wanted to get back together with her and go on.  I just didnt feel any anger nor resentment.  I just have a knack for letting things go.  The problem is that keeps me in this cycle.  I almost need to harbor some rage so I can break free

She still does not want me back, she still wants her car.  I am still getting her a car.  It is stupid, it makes no sense, it is destined to fail, but I keep doing it.

My therapist has gotten to the point of basically admitting that I just will not leave here even though everything says to.  Just trying to get me to mitigate damage and deal with myself to find peace in the storm.

I am just as sick as her.  While she is self destructive and destructive to everything around her, I am destroying myself by allowing this to happen.  I am not sure why I cannot hold onto the anger.  Why I cannot stand up to people.

On one hand, its great cause my wife feels no peace and is miserable cause she cannot let go, and enjoy life.  I am the opposite, I just let go but that allows same problems to keep happening.

[waverider]

The issue is not whether to stay or go.

It is about choice, a reason for doing what you do. You are stuck in default mode with no real belief, or reason, for what you do.

That's why you feel impotent. You have no control over you.

Stalwart is correct, the world is always about end for a pwBPD, it always has, and it always will. But usually doesn't.

[Grey Kitty]

Its just so hard... She keeps saying its me... its my fault.  I am not appreciating her. I am not loving her.  I am messed up.  If I am crazy, how do i know?

I remember when I was at my lowest point and starting to wonder if the things like this that my wife said were true, even though they seemed so wrong. I was starting to doubt my grip on reality.

I can make her happy by destroying everything that is me and everyone around me, but then what... it wont solve anything. 

hh, remember--her mind is disordered. You *know* that self-destruction won't make her happy.

Stop believing things like these just because she says them. Her saying it won't make it true, no matter how loud she screams it.

When you start accepting the world as it is, you can make much better choices about how to live in it.

[momtara]

You've admitted your mistake in paying for her to come back from Europe.  Don't you think getting the car is an awful idea?  I realize you have now promised it and will have trouble backing out.  But you can find a reason - maybe say that some new recent expense means you have to put it off.  An expense she or her family has caused.

Unfortunately you have to learn to out manipulate the manipulators.

You are seeing that you either have to leave and cause a lot of hurt or stay and cause a lot of hurt, but there is a third way maybe - leave for some of the time.  Don't file for divorce, but leave for a few days a week or hours per day for your own health.

You have hinted above that you are considering the 'only way out.'  Since that way is also leaving her, and causing hurt, then a better option would be one of the others.  Please please don't hurt yourself.  That will cause more damage than divorce and other things would.

I didn't realize she had attempted suicide and acted so reckless.  It concers me that she can't take care of the kids.  These are things you should document in case you will ever need to bring them up in a court - not to hurt her, but to protect the kids (and ensure that she gets better counseling than now.)

it seems to me taht your therapist is not taking this all seriously enough, because he should be giving you better solutions and things to do.  Maybe see someone who knows a lot about BPD and isn't so passive?  Maybe an expert at a local university? 

You know that the car won't make her happy any more than anything else.  It's like you do these things for a bit of relief from the nagging and name calling.  Lexuses (Lexi?) ain't cheap.  Maybe tell her you just got more bills in the mail and you have to wait on the car until such and such gets paid off.

Regardless of your own issues, you are a sweet and loving person. We need more people like that in the world.  Please don't give up!

Seems to me that she really won't ever file for divorce.  Give yourself a break.  You don't need to file; too much guilt, but that doesn't mean you have to do everything she wants, either.  If you set more boundaries, what's the worst that can happen>?  She finds things to blame you for, new things, but she will always find things!

((Hug))

[tired-of-it-all]

Hurt,

There is nothing wrong with you saying, "I agreed to buy the car because of all the pressure I felt to try to make you happy.  I realize now that I can't afford it.  I just can't and I am not going to do it."  Let her scream and get mad.  She is going to do that anyway.  The payment on this car is going to far outlast the happiness that she experience when she receives it.

[hurthusband]

Hard part is kindly manipulating her.  She is quite smart.  She sees through alot of the BS.  Now do not get me wrong, I do not like to manipulate people and I do not manipulate to solely get my way, but I am quite adept and nudging people into directions.  With her though, its hard.  She is smart, and extremely paranoid.  She sees things that are not reality and either sees through me or sees things that are not there in what I do and say

I did get the car.  After asking repeatedly if she liked, she admitted she liked it.  Of course, she wanted to be jovial then and I basically said, I did not know what had really changed besides a car.  This morning it was all about what I have done wrong and I will not change.  The biggest sin she says I did though was that I mentioned that like her family she is not admitting any fault what-so-ever

I do not mind if you say "you know what, I am sorry for using horrible language to hurt you.  I was hurting at the time, but it was still wrong of me".  Instead it is "its okay for me to do that because you hurt me".  Okay, but that same rule does not apply to me? 

She slipped up and said something telling to me today.  She said "nobody believes in me".  My whole point is that maybe I am not so bad.  Maybe its just that she feels helpless and hopeless in others eyes, but its being transferred to me.  I cannot out and out say that, but I do point out that the anger is only at me.

I tried not to defend myself today though.  Working on that.  No use defending.  I know I have reasons and perfectly good excuses, but she will not hear them.  She will not consider my reality, only her own. 

I am sitting here, and just baffled.  I can go home and be abused.  Verbally and possibly physically.  I do not feel safe.  So how can I just ignore that?  It seems leaving is the only option

[Grey Kitty]

So don't try manipulation. Just be direct.

I tried not to defend myself today though.  Working on that.  No use defending.  I know I have reasons and perfectly good excuses, but she will not hear them.  She will not consider my reality, only her own. 

You are right--defending doesn't help anything. In fact, since it is invalidating to her. When you defend yourself against her accusations, you are challenging her view that you are the problem.

It doesn't matter how WRONG her beliefs are--when you challenge them, you are invalidating her, and that makes things worse, not better.

I am sitting here, and just baffled.  I can go home and be abused.  Verbally and possibly physically.  I do not feel safe.  So how can I just ignore that?  It seems leaving is the only option

I think you are correct that leaving is your best option. However I mean leaving the immediate abuse, not leaving your marriage (at least for now)

Go home, and when (if?) the abuse starts, leave. If you are up to it, say something brief about not putting up with the abuse (or choose other words for it). But leave. Walk out of the room; if she follows, walk out of the house. If needed, get in your car and drive away--you can always drive to a police station if she follows you.

Leaving does trigger fear of abandonment in a pwBPD; you can reduce this somewhat by saying you will come back in a specific period of time, 20 minutes, two hours, in the morning, after work tomorrow, etc. If you do this, don't say something vague like "soon" or "later"... . you can come back and argue whether it was soon or not.

If you do this, stick to it. If you come back after 20 minutes and the abuse resumes immediately, leave again... . this time for longer.

Another useful tip--Don't say you are leaving "until she calms down" or some such. This is an invitation for her to argue that she isn't upset/isn't doing anything wrong/is justified in what she is doing/whatever. It is also invalidating because it is telling her what she is feeling or doing, and she probably doesn't believe it. Instead, make it about yourself... . "I'm going away to calm down." or some such. I've been known to be heading out the door trying to say (instead of shout) "If I stay around any longer, I'll say something I'll regret." As a bonus, it is 99% certain to be true--The abuse *is* upsetting, and it does get you worked up!

The more consistently you can do this, the better--Eventually she will learn by example that she can't yell at you for any length of time before you go away... . and stop trying so much.

[momtara]

Patricia Evans, in her books about verbal abuse, says the victim can sometimes create a list (non accusatory, but firm) of things that have to change, and give it to the abuser.  Sort of a last resort.  Maybe you can even write it and revise it yourself, even if you never give it to her.

I took your statement above to mean you were suicidal.  I hope that is not the case.  That would certainly cause more hurt than walking away, setting boundaries, or getting divorced.   Please consider one of those last three options.  I see that you are starting to set some boundaries, which is great.  Keep up the good work.  Really, if she wanted to divorce you, she would have done it already.  Trying to force you into it is a way for her to put the blame on you.  There have to be ways to fight this manipulation.  Maybe you can at least tell her, as a rule, you will not pay for anything that is an idea coming from her family.   

[everprincess]

My DH's family is the type that NEVER deals with things. Put a band aid on it and sees what happens. Make excuses that DH has a brain injury. Really? He has a problem and it has nothing to do with his brain injury. He has been this way all his life and sister had the same problem (not to mention addiction issues which led to her death). Several times I've been blamed for it. I was drinking at one point in the marriage and taking anxiety meds. But now I've been sober for 6 months and I've not been to doctor to refill my meds but still he has a breakdown. Yeah I'm not the problem here. If anything I'm trying to get myself better thinking that if I did he would get some help. His dad runs to his aid as soon as he calls. He enables him which I will not do anymore. I refuse to fuel the fire that only turns into a inferno. Bottom line I know his dad loves him and other family members but he doesn't know how to deal with situations.

[hurthusband]

My DH's family is the type that NEVER deals with things. Put a band aid on it and sees what happens. Make excuses that DH has a brain injury. Really? He has a problem and it has nothing to do with his brain injury. He has been this way all his life and sister had the same problem (not to mention addiction issues which led to her death). Several times I've been blamed for it. I was drinking at one point in the marriage and taking anxiety meds. But now I've been sober for 6 months and I've not been to doctor to refill my meds but still he has a breakdown. Yeah I'm not the problem here. If anything I'm trying to get myself better thinking that if I did he would get some help. His dad runs to his aid as soon as he calls. He enables him which I will not do anymore. I refuse to fuel the fire that only turns into a inferno. Bottom line I know his dad loves him and other family members but he doesn't know how to deal with situations.

There is no doubt you see why our SO become what they doing.  Bury their head in the sand is a popular one.  As a parent, I think one of the most important lessons you MUST teach childeren is dealing with consequences.  By not teaching them adequately this lesson, they become unable to deal with them properly when older and either go crazy or avoid everything.  A total lack of maturity with rejection and difficulty because they were never taught it

They are kicked when they are down, never encouraged to get back up, and not told they have to get back up.

The thing that is frustrating is I do work alot, I am very tired and home is a sanctuary to me.  To be run out of my home and basically forced to sleep in a car while she is sleeping in bed is really more of a punishment to me than a lesson to her that abuse will not be tolerated.  In a way, I am still being abused!

[refusetosuccumb]

I'm not going to tell you what to do, nor convince you either way.

I asked myself this question and got my own answer - Why are myself and our 2 children in therapy due to one person (exUBPDH) yet that person doesn't feel he's in anyway responsible for any of this?

I got my answer. 

My exUBPDH tried to kill himself while myself and the kids were still living with him.  I was horrified beyond belief that either one of my precious, innocent children would have found him dead and had that burned into their little innocent souls for the rest of their life.  The reason he did so was because I confronted him cheating on me, pissing on our marriage and giving me the big FU.  So his needs became the most important in the house.  I chose to leave with my children before I allowed more damage to them.

All I can do is wish you peace and love and pray you will find your own answer.

[refusetosuccumb]

My stbxUBPDH has a family that we had LC with at the best of times.  His mother actually verbally attacked me last week when I had the gall to ask her why she didn't meet her son to sign the lease for his new place like she had offered to do, to get it off my plate and allow her grandchildren peace.  "My situation" stressed her out was her answer.  His dad has been cutoff since last year and has his own issues.  The only one I can communicate with is his older sister.

My family is the polar opposite, very supportive and loving and accepting of people and their faults.  My stbUBPDH was very threatened by that our whole marriage.  I'm reconnecting with my own support system after escaping the cycle.

[Grey Kitty]

The thing that is frustrating is I do work alot, I am very tired and home is a sanctuary to me.  To be run out of my home and basically forced to sleep in a car while she is sleeping in bed is really more of a punishment to me than a lesson to her that abuse will not be tolerated.  In a way, I am still being abused!

I said more on this on another thread, but you don't do it as a "lesson." It is strictly to protect you. If she learns something from it, that is a bonus.

Can you find someplace more comfortable than your car to sleep on nights like this? A couch or guest room at a friend's place or a family member's house? Or a motel room?

Take good care of yourself. 

[hurthusband]

My stbxUBPDH has a family that we had LC with at the best of times.  His mother actually verbally attacked me last week when I had the gall to ask her why she didn't meet her son to sign the lease for his new place like she had offered to do, to get it off my plate and allow her grandchildren peace.  "My situation" stressed her out was her answer.  His dad has been cutoff since last year and has his own issues.  The only one I can communicate with is his older sister.

My family is the polar opposite, very supportive and loving and accepting of people and their faults.  My stbUBPDH was very threatened by that our whole marriage.  I'm reconnecting with my own support system after escaping the cycle.

yea my wife has attempted suicide twice.  Both times she was drunk and on pills.  Cut her wrists.  I noticed one cause I was watching TV and she walked out of bedroom to get something to drink and i saw some blood.  The cuts were bad and needed stitches but the main problem was the pills she took.  Second time, she cut herself worse.  It and oldest kid found her. 

The family thing is same with me.  I mean my family is strange no doubt, but they are affectionate and loving.  They are overly defensive of each other though.  It is a circle the wagons and defend the family against outsiders when something goes wrong sometimes even when the person in the wrong is a family member

My wife's family basically cannibalizes everyone they see and has no affection nor care for each other.  My wife seems to have a longing for their approval, and to be nice, but they can never give it.  They are basically like her to her as she is at times to me, but while they are not as exterme as her, they never have anything truly nice or kind