Still wondering what keeps on this board and not leaving

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Still I sit hear juts hoping things get better or go away while i do nothing. Unless I listen to my wife where I am the reason for her hating the last 12 years of her miserable life made so by my existance. Really even those comments don't make me pack up what few things are truely mine and leave? She is right about 1 thing. The last 12 years have not been something I have enjoyed for the most part either.

Knowing this why do I punish myslef and her by not leaving . She says she isn't happy and maybe leavign will take out the 1 thing she sees as being th eproblem in her life. We all here know that isn't realy the case. Leaving won't make her life all of a sudden happier for her. But I'm willing to see. I know it will for me.

[Cipher13]

Still I sit hear juts hoping things get better or go away while i do nothing. Unless I listen to my wife where I am the reason for her hating the last 12 years of her miserable life made so by my existance. Really even those comments don't make me pack up what few things are truely mine and leave? She is right about 1 thing. The last 12 years have not been something I have enjoyed for the most part either.

Knowing this why do I punish myslef and her by not leaving . She says she isn't happy and maybe leavign will take out the 1 thing she sees as being th eproblem in her life. We all here know that isn't realy the case. Leaving won't make her life all of a sudden happier for her. But I'm willing to see. I know it will for me.

[Fanie]

Cipher13 - I'm with you all the way ... . !

Its not easy ... . at all

I'm from the "Staying Board" but "downgraded" to "Undecided"

thinking of "downgrading" more

just to pack my bags and run away as I'm being cheated

(see definition of cheating by Dr Phil) on a daily basis.

I'm an enabler / codependent (the shrink says I'm desperate ... . how true ... . )

(thinking of how wonderful it could be with a "normal" person

Romance, intimacy, laughter, HONESTY, camaraderie... . )

Man ... . its not easy  ... . we have two toddlers (3 and 5)

I love her dearly

I love the kiddos to the moon . . .

I cant go ... .

Cant set boundaries ... . she is in her own world ... .

communication is almost zero

What to do bro ?

Praying non stop... . God we beg from you  ... . praying for you too my friend !

[Fanie]

Sorry got to add this:

We are the same !   "just sit and wait"

Nothing is going change for both of us brother !

(Prayer alone wont be enough - the lord wants us to do something)

We got to do something, now I'm talking to myself:

   Boundaries is the start I guess ?  

But how?

Going to make a new post on this issue - follow me

at undecided "Practical problems setting boundaries"

[Waddams]

Are you afraid of how she'll react if you leave?

[Fanie]

No, not at all

There are 3 reasons that I don't leave:

- Financial (we support each other)

- Our 2 toddlers

- I still love her very much (codependent)

[Cipher13]

Insert QuoteAre you afraid of how she'll react if you leave?

Yes and no place to go to. I guess in my head I am waitign fo rher to leave.

Fanie you are right. Prayer is good but action is required along with. If God wanted us to to just sit and wait her wouldn't have given us a brain. Lord knows I havn't used it to its potential in this.

[Fanie]

Hi Cipher

I think you are not too young anymore

Same here, im 56 she is 31 !

Now nevermind the age difference

BPD does know about ages  but true

Love is just so freakin addictive

This is my second wife

There was no love with the first

Then the second one knocked me over completely - a real BPD

But of course I didn't know a thing about BPD 10 years ago

I mean we had great times over the 10 years

But too much recycling (possibly 20)

and cheating

I have to make decisions (so are you)

Not easy buddy, but we have to ... .

and my kiddos ... . man 

(never stop praying !)

Goodluck

keep in touch

[Waddams]

Yes and no place to go to. I guess in my head I am waitign fo rher to leave.

Regarding no place to go - why do you feel this way?  If you absolutely need to go, could you find an apartment or even rent a basement from someone?

[Cipher13]

Regarding no place to go - why do you feel this way?  If you absolutely need to go, could you find an apartment or even rent a basement from someone?

I do have a place I could go I guess. Co-worker has gone through this before. Then the reality is I am just waiting for her to do the leaving.

[Waddams]

I do have a place I could go I guess. Co-worker has gone through this before. Then the reality is I am just waiting for her to do the leaving.

Is that a realistic expectation?  I believe you joined the Army to get away from her but she still didn't leave the relationship?  Her past behavior has been to not leave.  Why would that change?

And why wait for her to leave if you want out?  Afraid to the bad guy?  (for the record I suffer immensely from being afraid to be the bad guy, until I get pushed to the point of not caring which for me is a lot farther than it should be).

[Cipher13]

Is that a realistic expectation?  I believe you joined the Army to get away from her but she still didn't leave the relationship?  Her past behavior has been to not leave.  Why would that change?

And why wait for her to leave if you want out?  Afraid to the bad guy?  (for the record I suffer immensely from being afraid to be the bad guy, until I get pushed to the point of not caring which for me is a lot farther than it should be).

You know you go and put a comment on here then some just blatently goes makes a whole lot of sense.  I don't want to be the bad guy either. But when I listen to her words I already am the bad guy. Last night she made a request that on the surface I thought was good. She wanted 2 lists from me. First one is reasons that I love her. The second are all the things i can do to show her that I love her.  I was put off right off the bat by the request not becasue I didn't want to be becasue it was a demand via text.

The second list right now is her focus and carries more weight. After I wrote it out in the middle of the night I found out how she wants those things completed... . Every single day all day all the time with so much passion that she is constantly floored by it.  Don't get me wrong I love her and I do a lot of things for her.  Example last night watching a little TV. Not sure how I can spice that up constantly so that there is never any point where she is bored with me and I am not flaunting over her. I made dinner. I rubbed her feet. Its not like I ignored her.

[WalrusGumboot]

The second list right now is her focus and carries more weight. After I wrote it out in the middle of the night I found out how she wants those things completed... . Every single day all day all the time with so much passion that she is constantly floored by it. 

Once she gets bored with the things on this list, and she will, you will have to write a new list, with things more exotic (and expensive). Every hour of every day, your thoughts will be consumed with her... . not pleasant thoughts... . but thoughts of are you doing enough to keep her in this unrealistic state of constant euphoria that she seeks. You do what you can to keep the Day of Reckoning from coming, which is that you ultimately failed at this game she is playing with you. She will be bored with you, and it is completely your fault. You just don't love her enough, because if you did, the constant passion will be easy for you. But everything is an effort for you, which means that you don't actually love her, in her eyes.

I went exactly through this. To comply is that path of least resistance, but it can utterly destroy you, let alone your finances. And in the end, your marriage is in the same state as it would be if you never played along.

You know that "new love" feeling? Studies have shown this has the same effect on the brain as drugs. When you two first started dating, your foot rub that you gave her would have been very stimulating to her. Now, she is probably thinking how little imagination you had by doing the same thing over and over.

You can't win this game - you just cannot.

If you want change, you are going to have to be the one to instigate it. You are going to have to be the "bad guy".

[Cipher13]

She still wants to move. I still don't want to but I caved enough to say I'll consider even though I don't want to. I know thats nto good. I also have to tell he eventually I need to go out of town on work training. She has gone the last 2 times. This time I am traveling with male co-worker. The last tiem she came with was horrible. I couldn't concentrate on my work at all.

[hurthusband]

i am thinking same.  Totally in FOG.  I am terrified of her, I cannot leave cause I feel obligated and guilt to the nth degree.  Death sounds better...

She has cheated on me, been an addict, attempted suicide twice, has broken in and vandalized home which I handled, straddled me with enormous debt, destroyed my relationships, said we should joint suicide

she wants my job gone but wants more money (6 figures isnt enough), she wrecked her car at 2 am and wants a loaded up lexus now after she just half way remodeled our house and wracked up debt. Medical bills for her BPD and other things are up to $30k a year.  The insurance company took 2 weeks to get us funds and she blames me. 

I supported her through art school and now she blames me for that cause she cannot find a career.  She says i do not believe in her, i do not value her, I do not care...

Yet, I have given up everyone and thing just about for her.  My whole life is devoted to her wants just about now.  I am the one person to tells her she is great how she is and that she should pursue her dreams...

I am scared though. I am scared to go home, I am scared to go to work where she will call all day telling me what all i did wrong...

I feel like I am going insane... if I am what she says then i am a monster.  If I am what I think then she maybe a monster.  one of us is crazy though.

I am co dependent...   I do have ocd... I love her kids, and I love her.  I wish it could be simply i blow my head off and everything goes well for those around me.  I do not want to deal with any of this anymore.

I do not have the strength to be the ass it will take to separate... to leave her with no job, no nothing... the kids...

o and I have no right to kids cause even though I have been in their lives since they were 1 and 3 for 11 years... I am not their biological father. 

I am a broken man.  I do not have the energy to even reclaim myself.  I have nothing to live for at this point. 

[Cipher13]

hurthusband

I am with you in almost every aspect. I feel worthless and I get raked over the coals for not replying to emails or texts fast enough while I am working. I provide everythign ai can for her and do what even she asks. If you love those kids then you have reasons to be here. If they love you and respect you you have reasons to be here. I don't have kids and its still hard to leave. This illness is horrible. But when you "caretakers" liek the 2 of us it sucks us in where others would stand up and for themselves.

Let me ask you this. Does it feel selfish to want to do something on your own with out her? Yet you want notign more than to really get away? 

[Grey Kitty]

Cipher13,

You have a few choices.

1. Continue with things exactly the way they are.

2. Leave your r/s

3. Change your role in your r/s

4. Wait for your wife to change her role in your r/s.

Unfortunately, Option #4 is exactly the same as option #1.

None of them are easy. We all know that.

I generally prod people toward choice #3, but it really is your choice.

Which one do you want to try next, and how can we assist you on it?

[hurthusband]

this illness is horrible... i honestly feel worse for them having to suffer in it than us having to deal with it, but at same time... it kills us too

[Surnia]

Hi Cipher

what exactly prevents you from doing things for your own? Is it just because she don't like it and making a drama if you would do something for you?

Or is it something else?

For me one of the things in my head was: If I am nice to someone in a rs he will be nice with me too. It cannot be different. It was like a shock to realize for me that this idea is not working with everyone.

Another thought to your situation: I can relate to your wishes she would leave. I had the same wishes in the near end from my marriage too. Its good you are aware of this.

[Cipher13]

what exactly prevents you from doing things for your own? Is it just because she don't like it and making a drama if you would do something for you?

GK I agree that #3 is the option I should try. In doing that Surnia I was thinking that I really dont like the guilt that gets placed on me for having such "selfish" thoughts. This is the drama I avoid. Truth is I work hard to avoifdthat drama and a diffrent one will happen anyway. I guess its the drama I know will happen that I try to prevent with my not doing things for me and my well being.

There is something that I do really want soem help with that would mean the world to me. I want to reconnect with my family. I still email them and they miss me but I have not seen them in years even though I only live a few hours away. My wife has painted them permanant black. Now that I think of it I feel that was always her plan. She had only met them a handful of times before we got married. And even when planning the wedding she really wanted a specific scripture reading to be very prominate. That is the one where "A man leaves his mother and his father for his wife.  She I think said that she picked it specifically for my mom.  Now don't get me wrong I think to a certain degree thats true but I think she meant it to be more literal.

So if we could find ways for me to beable to discuss this with my wife that really would make all the differenc ein my life. I must warn you though. I think this topic alone would possible make her angry enough to leave or really make things worse. She has had many many many nightmares about me leaving her to go back tl live with my parents or them kidnapping me from her.

[123Phoebe]

So if we could find ways for me to beable to discuss this with my wife that really would make all the differenc ein my life. I must warn you though. I think this topic alone would possible make her angry enough to leave or really make things worse. She has had many many many nightmares about me leaving her to go back tl live with my parents or them kidnapping me from her.

Hi Cipher,

I sometimes think that we put too much emphasis on 'discussing' things with our pwBPD, hoping that they'll get what we're saying and where we're coming from, when boundaries are actually needed.  Yours might be that you value family and keeping those connections close is really important, therefore you will make time to see them.  PERIOD!  It really has NOTHING to do with her.  They're your parents.  Your family.  Make time for them.

[empathic]

... .

For me one of the things in my head was: If I am nice to someone in a rs he will be nice with me too. It cannot be different. It was like a shock to realize for me that this idea is not working with everyone.

Yes, this was a shock for me too, with my uBPDw. Not only that, but she seems to think that love/affection is something you can convince another person (i.e. me) to feel for her.

My own belief is:

* Treat other people as you want to be treated yourself.

* If you want another person to love you, then you need to treat that person with respect, and trust that other person.

I can definitely say that my uBPDw does not believe in the first. Maybe she has some belief in the second, but she thinks it's done in the moment, i.e. if you treat someone that way this very moment that person should be able to love you, disregarding that you have treated that person very badly just moments before.

[Waddams]

Cipher - I'm seconding 123Phoebe here.  Take a weekend and go home and see your family.  Simply tell your wife what you are doing.  Give her the details of the plan.  Leaving at (date/time).  Traveling back (date/time).  You don't need her permission.

[Cipher13]

Why does it seem so simple yet thinking about what will be the outcome completely is tying my stomach in knots. I know the threat will be ":)on't baother coming back." I seriously would take her up on that I think.

[ugghh]

Cipher,  have you followed up on getting a therapist just for yourself?

Remember, you are only responsible for you.  You are not responsible nor can you change what your uBPDw is going to feel.  I can guarantee that she is going to feel threatened by you visiting your family.  Stop and ask yourself if you can live with the consequences of not going if one of your parents were to die in an accident tomorrow? 

You have to treaty you wife as you would a small child who does not get their way.  Come up with a repeatable set of answers that will fit her reactions and stick to the the script.

- Her "You don't love me" - Cipher - "I am sorry you feel that way"

- Her "You only think of yourself" - Cipher - "I am sorry you feel that way"

- Her "I will miss you" - Cipher - "My family is important to me and I will be back in X days"

Do not JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) - you are going to see your family, that is a statement of fact.

[hurthusband]

Cipher,  have you followed up on getting a therapist just for yourself?

Remember, you are only responsible for you.  You are not responsible nor can you change what your uBPDw is going to feel.  I can guarantee that she is going to feel threatened by you visiting your family.  Stop and ask yourself if you can live with the consequences of not going if one of your parents were to die in an accident tomorrow? 

You have to treaty you wife as you would a small child who does not get their way.  Come up with a repeatable set of answers that will fit her reactions and stick to the the script.

- Her "You don't love me" - Cipher - "I am sorry you feel that way"

- Her "You only think of yourself" - Cipher - "I am sorry you feel that way"

- Her "I will miss you" - Cipher - "My family is important to me and I will be back in X days"

Do not JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) - you are going to see your family, that is a statement of fact.

ugh I follow JADE waaaay too much.  The problem is the script part she hates because she says I am treating her like a child which gets under her skin.  That is one problem I am having.  My wife sees that I am using SET and other techniqures and basically calls me out saying its bull___ and cut it out

[Surnia]

Why does it seem so simple yet thinking about what will be the outcome completely is tying my stomach in knots. I know the threat will be ":)on't baother coming back." I seriously would take her up on that I think.

I can so relate - no, it is really not simple. I know it, I was in similar shoes. Being assertive, standing my ground, being not "nice", saying NO - all this was very difficult. So much fear and doubts. So many knots... .

[Cipher13]

totally got to agree with hurthusband here. I have used SET and its never made it any easier. "I'm sorry you feel that way" makes it worse.

[123Phoebe]

totally got to agree with hurthusband here. I have used SET and its never made it any easier. "I'm sorry you feel that way" makes it worse.

I've found that I have to actually mean what I'm saying for it to be received correctly (truth & boundaries) and so be it to how someone chooses to interpret it incorrectly-- it is out of my control anyway.

"I'm sorry you feel that way" could be changed to, "I'm doing this for me, because it's important (to me!)"  Own it.  Really, seeing your family needs no explanation, Cipher.  All of that fear and anxiety surrounding her possible reaction    is    your    stuff.  Own that too.  Then get on with it.  Our emotions can keep us stuck or they can set us free... .

Talking about it only gets us so far, then we gotta actually do something about it.

Yay!

[ugghh]

Props to HurtHusband and Phoebe.  Sorry if I was unclear Cipher.   For those of us who have spouse who are high functioning, such as Hurt and mine, they do indeed catch on that we are using SET or other techniques.  And as they correctly stated, at that point you are not reassuring them, rather making a simple statement of fact.

Bravo to Phoebe for pointing out that while the technique is the same the message is different.  If you state, " I am going to see my family because it is important to me." that is an absolutely true statement.  There is no room for argument, and no reason for you to equivocate.  While your uBPDw may and probably will react in many unacceptable ways, ultimately, the truth that matters is yours.

[Grey Kitty]

Why does it seem so simple yet thinking about what will be the outcome completely is tying my stomach in knots. I know the threat will be ":)on't baother coming back." I seriously would take her up on that I think.

Yes it is simple. Nobody ever said that simple was easy though! It is indeed incredibly hard to do.

As far as the "don't come back" threat goes... . I'd simply say "I love my family and I love you. I will be coming back on (day)" and disengage from her then.

Yes, you can turn yourself inside out and tie stomach in knots over this. I expect you will do it anyway, whether you go or not... . might as well get a nice visit with your family out of it!

Believe it or not, this sort of thing gets easier with practice!