Still wondering what keeps on this board and not leaving

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Props to HurtHusband and Phoebe.  Sorry if I was unclear Cipher.   For those of us who have spouse who are high functioning, such as Hurt and mine, they do indeed catch on that we are using SET or other techniques.  And as they correctly stated, at that point you are not reassuring them, rather making a simple statement of fact.

Bravo to Phoebe for pointing out that while the technique is the same the message is different.  If you state, " I am going to see my family because it is important to me." that is an absolutely true statement.  There is no room for argument, and no reason for you to equivocate.  While your uBPDw may and probably will react in many unacceptable ways, ultimately, the truth that matters is yours.

o my wife is non functioning.  She associates with nobody and hates everone.  She has no job, cept for parttime cleaning she says she is going to quit every day.  She literally lives on rage and hate.  Its like the force or something.  She can go without eating or sleep and feel exhausted, then get angry and go full alive.  Detect every SET and other trick in the book.  She is smart and hyper-perceptive to the point she percieves things that are not there.

I can state a fact to her, the problem is her reactions are abuse.  Vast majority is just verbal abuse that also follows me to work and everywhere else.  rarely physical as far as kicking windshields out, throwing large objects at me, hitting me, kicking me etc.  While I maybe seeing my family, her argument is I am choosing them over her and she feels that way.  Which is her own statement of fact on how she feels.  I cannot argue that, but by not saying anything, I am reinforcing that.  By saying something, I am walking into a gaslight situation and the only ways to prove to her

[hurthusband]

Props to HurtHusband and Phoebe.  Sorry if I was unclear Cipher.   For those of us who have spouse who are high functioning, such as Hurt and mine, they do indeed catch on that we are using SET or other techniques.  And as they correctly stated, at that point you are not reassuring them, rather making a simple statement of fact.

Bravo to Phoebe for pointing out that while the technique is the same the message is different.  If you state, " I am going to see my family because it is important to me." that is an absolutely true statement.  There is no room for argument, and no reason for you to equivocate.  While your uBPDw may and probably will react in many unacceptable ways, ultimately, the truth that matters is yours.

o my wife is non functioning.  She associates with nobody and hates everone.  She has no job, cept for parttime cleaning she says she is going to quit every day.  She literally lives on rage and hate.  Its like the force or something.  She can go without eating or sleep and feel exhausted, then get angry and go full alive.  Detect every SET and other trick in the book.  She is smart and hyper-perceptive to the point she percieves things that are not there.

I can state a fact to her, the problem is her reactions are abuse.  Vast majority is just verbal abuse that also follows me to work and everywhere else.  rarely physical as far as kicking windshields out, throwing large objects at me, hitting me, kicking me etc.  While I maybe seeing my family, her argument is I am choosing them over her and she feels that way.  Which is her own statement of fact on how she feels.  I cannot argue that, but by not saying anything, I am reinforcing that.  By saying something, I am walking into a gaslight situation and the only ways to prove to her

[Take2]

totally got to agree with hurthusband here. I have used SET and its never made it any easier. "I'm sorry you feel that way" makes it worse.

My high functioning on/off exBPDbf flips out when I say something like that... .   One time he even yelled me to NOT say "I understand I made you feel that way" in response to his demand that I admit that I did something I did not do.  He will not allow a response unless it is a specific admission of guilt and acknowledgement of what I have done wrong, regardless of the fact that I may not have done what he accuses me of... .  

  She is smart and hyper-perceptive to the point she percieves things that are not there.

That statement is also deadon for my ex... .    

[Grey Kitty]

While I maybe seeing my family, her argument is I am choosing them over her and she feels that way.  Which is her own statement of fact on how she feels.  I cannot argue that, but by not saying anything, I am reinforcing that.

I think the best you can do is say once "I don't feel that I'm choosing them over you." and then leave the (now abusive) conversation.

You don't have to make her agree with you. Actually, I doubt you can, and if you try, it will be invalidating instead of persuasive, i.e. make things worse, not better.

All you need to convince her is that you will be doing something (in this case, spending time with your family, then returning to her), not why you are doing it.

[hurthusband]

While I maybe seeing my family, her argument is I am choosing them over her and she feels that way.  Which is her own statement of fact on how she feels.  I cannot argue that, but by not saying anything, I am reinforcing that.

I think the best you can do is say once "I don't feel that I'm choosing them over you." and then leave the (now abusive) conversation.

You don't have to make her agree with you. Actually, I doubt you can, and if you try, it will be invalidating instead of persuasive, i.e. make things worse, not better.

All you need to convince her is that you will be doing something (in this case, spending time with your family, then returning to her), not why you are doing it.

Yea, defending myself with common sense and rational thinking just does not work.  walking away on other hand does not stop anything either.  It just initiates repetitive calls, threats, cursing...

I think that my BPD has been enabled so far by me that trying to turn things around would be like taking a heroin addict off heroin cold turkey.  It will kill the relationship and us. 

The fact that she is 33, just finished art school, and realizing she has little career opportunities is a VERY stressful and scary situation for anyone.  The fact that she is BPD has just put her on the psychotic side too much.  Her fear of failure is making it even worse since choices are basically, continue to clean houses which she feels invalidates her by meaning that her pursuiing art was meaningless.  Option 2 being teach... she does not have the patience for high schoolers nor kids and has no desire for that.  Option 3 is creating and selling art, but she is scared to death of failure.

My rationale is try and sell and create art.  You are failing if you are not trying.  You have interest in it, you are good, and it has potential.  I started my own business, it is scary, but it is rewarding.

Until she gets some sort of self worth created by herself, I think her spinning out of control will never stop

[AimingforMastery]

Cipher13 & hurthusband,

May I offer a few words.

Despite all the torment, abuse, lies, manipulations let's go back to the fundamentals - this is not your behavior, but someone else's.

It is not YOUR state of being.

Go to that place.

YOUR state of being is one of standing in love, in compassion, one of honesty.

That state of being is not broken. It is worth celebrating even if the person you are with is incapable of doing so.

I hope those few simple words offer strength and faith in you.

[Grey Kitty]

Yea, defending myself with common sense and rational thinking just does not work.  walking away on other hand does not stop anything either.  It just initiates repetitive calls, threats, cursing...

That is a possible benefit of these boundaries. (Some long-term stayers have found that the rages did stop after they started enforcing boundaries against rage/abuse consistently)

However, that is NOT the reason you do it.

The reason you do it is to protect yourself. You should not be subject to that sort of verbal (or worse) abuse. So you step out to protect yourself.

She gets to choose whether to continue cursing, threatening, calling, whatever.

If you go away when it starts (or stop answering the phone after calls become abusive/harassing), you don't experience the abuse anymore. That is why you do it.

And if you come back to more of the same, go away for a little longer to protect yourself. These periods have always ended before, I expect this one will too, eventually.

Until she gets some sort of self worth created by herself, I think her spinning out of control will never stop

Likely true. All you can do is give her some room to figure that out. You don't know how much success she will have.

However... . if you do let her take her rage out on you, you are depriving her of the chance to experience her own emotions and learn to deal with them.

Long after I had started enforcing boundaries, and the abuse had stopped, my wife did actually thank me for doing exactly this--leaving when she was out of control. She was left alone with her own feelings, and nobody to turn them on but herself. It was a !@#$!@# tough and unpleasant thing for her to go through. And she made herself a better person after going through it.

[Cipher13]

GK

I has to keep reminding myself that if I want anythign to change I have to change what I am doing. I am foolish to think that I can stop the abuse by taking it and just hoping she sees its wrong and change. Nope never going to happen. Especially when she is very adimit about that fact that I need to change. And you know what she is right. However it is nto the change she is thinking of but I do need to for my benefit. If she wants to take advantage of it and enjoy a new me then I welcome that. If not then best of luck to her. That door is still open.  She has mentioned last night she doesn't beleive I can do anythign becasue I havenot shown her I can follow through with things. To a point she is right. This being the prime example of  saying i need to do this and still not doing anything about it.

I think I may need to take a real hard look at DEARMAN again and really make it my own. I have tried it and others with no success that I could see. Maybe my approach was off or I didn't tailor it to my specific situation as well as I should have. We will see.

[hurthusband]

I think part of the problem at least with me is I live by the old Golden Rule.  Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

I am kind to people, they are kind back.  I am supportive, they are generally supportive back.

That logic does not work with a BPD.  Kindness and mercy is almost a show of weakness. In fact, logic gets you in trouble because they are illogical.  So you start trying to apply logic which invalidates.  I am not saying you have to be mean, but you have to detach from somebody you love which in itself seems wrong for a couple.

Expecting them to be grateful or thankful, is just not going to happen.  I cannot imagine that myself so its hard for me to understand them.  Especially when it was not always the case

IT is hard because you almost have to behave around them completely different than you would anyone else.  I mean at same time, if you can work things through with a BPD you can work with anyone which is good.

They say that you do not know what parenting is like until you have kids.  Then after years you get it.  With a BPD, there is no way to prepare yourself until you are there, and even then... I do not think it is possible to understand

[Grey Kitty]

I think I may need to take a real hard look at DEARMAN again and really make it my own. I have tried it and others with no success that I could see.

Know when to use DEARMAN and when not to.

It is a communications technique to negotiate with a pwBPD, where you need their willing cooperation, i.e. you want them to actively do something when they have other choices (which you don't want)

For example, if you want your wife to participate nicely in an event with your family, you need her active cooperation to show up and be on good behavior.

These are exactly the sort of changes you are talking about making--and they will improve your life immensely, whether she decides to come along, stay behind, or something inbetween!

 GK

Don't use it to "negotiate" for rights that you already have--it will undermine you, not help you.

You can choose to visit your family; she doesn't need to help you do it at all! She doesn't have to be involved at all!

You can also choose to step out of an abusive conversation with her. (Whether it was started over you visiting your family... . or anything else). Once again, she doesn't have to do anything for you to leave.

[Cipher13]

Her new plan is to move to a remote area and become teachers at a school that barlet has 50 students k-12 and reduce our income by half all int he name of having 3 day weekends and somers off.  :'(  

[Grey Kitty]

HH,

I see the golden rule as something I do, because all humans deserve good behavior on my part, not because I expect good behavior back from them. I also don't see it as proscribing me from protecting myself others bad behavior. When I do need to protect myself, I try to do this in as good, kind, and gentle a way as I can.

I think part of the problem at least with me is I live by the old Golden Rule.

... .

I am kind to people, they are kind back.  I am supportive, they are generally supportive back.

... .

That logic does not work with a BPD.  Kindness and mercy is almost a show of weakness.

... .

Expecting them to be grateful or thankful, is just not going to happen.

I'm being a bit of a hardass here, but there is nothing in the Golden Rule about expecting others to be grateful or thankful or figure out that your intentions are kind and supportive.

I am not saying you have to be mean, but you have to detach from somebody you love which in itself seems wrong for a couple.

Detaching with love is exactly what we suggest here. It isn't easy. I remember figuring out that I really loved my wife, and would my entire life. This didn't change just because I realized her behavior was harming me. I even decided that I might have to leave our r/s to protect myself, and if I did, I would always love her anyway. Much of the detachment was realizing which were her thoughts and feelings, and which were mine, and even if she told me what I meant or was thinking or feeling about her, that was her, and not me.

IT is hard because you almost have to behave around them completely different than you would anyone else.

I disagree--the behavior we're suggesting for a pwBPD is the same as you would choose with a stranger, in the same circumstances... . it is just that we don't (usually) see this behavior from others in our daily life.

If a stranger started yelling at you about how awful a person you are, what would you do? (Imagine a drunk in a bar, or a (likely mentally ill) homeless person)

Would you try to defuse the situation?

If that wasn't working, would you walk away and end the confrontation?

Would you just stand there and listen to them? (for an hour?)

Would you argue or shout back at them?

[Grey Kitty]

Her new plan is to move to a remote area and become teachers at a school that barlet has 50 students k-12 and reduce our income by half all int he name of having 3 day weekends and somers off.  :'(  

 Sigh. What is your new plan?

She can choose to change jobs or move herself.

If you move or change jobs, that is your choice.

[Cipher13]

Told her I'm not going. She is going through a very nasty swearing and name calling spell. I'm just waitign for the tantrum to be over. And even more so considering leaving for good.

[CryingOut4Help]

I stay because I'm still in love with the man he sometimes pretends to be.  Lately I have been more exposed to the real man he is and resent him for it, but for some reason I still love the man I once thought he was and deep down (even though I know better) still hope for him to be one day.  I stay for my kids, to have a "family" and not be raised by a single mom struggling.  I stay and help him put on this facade while I, myself deteriorate.

I have come to hate myself for what I've let happen in my life... . so maybe I also stay for the punishment subconsciously.

[Waddams]

Told her I'm not going. She is going through a very nasty swearing and name calling spell. I'm just waitign for the tantrum to be over. And even more so considering leaving for good.

What was your response to her dysregulating?  I've found that when I just withdraw from such behavior, and not be around it, it tends to stop.  They have enough control that they don't keep blowing up when you aren't there to rage at.  And then they begin to not rant and rage because they know you'll leave if they do.  Which suggests they've got, and have always had, an ability at better self control and the rages are not really because they lost control, but because they are choosing to do it and they are in fact in complete control of themselves when they are raging.  They just feel entitled to do whatever they want to, devalue you in their minds so they can justify treating you however bad they want because you're not worth better anyway, and they genuinely think they are not wrong when they act like that.

I eventually came to the conclusion "why should I stick around someone like that?" and would bug out.

[Cipher13]

My response to the dysregulating was that if she was going to continue to swear swear at me I was no longer going to respond. This was over texting by the way. Her next responce to that was "Grow up".  How fitting 

She hasn't retuned an email or sent a text today. Thats unusual. She said in her mind its over. There is no more relationship. She has made it so I can't really talk to her as everytime I said somethiing last night it was ":)on't even say anything becasue I don't beeleive a single word you will even say."  Hard to talk to someone that way or mend any fences that need mending. So I didn't talk.

[hurthusband]

I just do not completely get it.  I suppose.  Do you really have a marriage if you are having to basically react to your spouse as you would a stranger?

I suppose you are preventing yourself from being hurt, but you are also preventing yourself from experiencing what a marriage should be.  I think you deserve that.

We keep on talking about doing whats good for ourselves too, but we are also saying we are willing to short change ourselves and how to properly short change ourselves to stay with these people.  I am not sure that is a marriage, but more of accepting we cannot be loved how we deserve to be loved.

Maybe I am wrong.  I define a marriage as two equals basically becoming one.  Both are equals, and both understand and know each other more so than anyone else.  There should be no fear.  Detaching away from your spouse more so than you would casual friends just to keep a marriage together because you love them doesnt seem right.  It almost sounds more like a caretaker parenting relationship than an equal marriage.  Not trying to be harsh.  I do not think the BPD wants a caretaker neither.  They want an equal and want to feel equal.  Basically, we are either manipulating them cause they will manipulate us, or we are living in a relationship that is more like siblings than as one...

I mean, I am sure I will do the same thing.  I love my wife and do not want to leave her so I will learn to basically detach some and be this way, but when I step back, that is still shortchanging myself and our own value. 

[Waddams]

My response to the dysregulating was that if she was going to continue to swear swear at me I was no longer going to respond. This was over texting by the way. Her next responce to that was "Grow up".  How fitting  smiley

She hasn't retuned an email or sent a text today. Thats unusual. She said in her mind its over. There is no more relationship. She has made it so I can't really talk to her as everytime I said somethiing last night it was ":)on't even say anything becasue I don't beeleive a single word you will even say."  Hard to talk to someone that way or mend any fences that need mending. So I didn't talk.

She's trying to badger you back into compliance/under her control.  A lot of us have been through the silent treatment.  It's better than being raged at. 

What are you doing to talk of yourself now?  Finding something that you can do a place to go that will result in some positive vibes is extremely important for people in your position right now.  Extracting yourself from the drama and immersing yourself in something stable and satisfying will go a long way towards helping you emotionally.

[Cipher13]

I over the years found myself doing everything for her. Even the things I thought were for me would be tailored to her wishes or interests by my own wanting to please her. I never set boundaries for myself and stood up for myslef from the first time we started to date. I can say the majority of my hurt is from my own doing. But I woulds say this. I wouldn't be suffering as much if the other person did not have to deal with BPD.

[Surnia]

I never set boundaries for myself and stood up for myslef from the first time we started to date.

Great insight, Cipher.

I am btw. very familiar with it. Its a very difficult pattern for a relationship.

Do you have any idea where did it come from?

[Cipher13]

I don't know where that came from. I've always remeber being a pasive person aimed to please. I brought up reconnecting wit my parents this morning to her. Not the landslide explosion I expected but I feel that is because she hasn't stewed on it yet. She sais she was not interested in mending anything with them since we still have our issues. I said I'd like be better and left it at that.

She doesn't have to mend anything with them. When I can let go that she has that control over me from spending time with my family I will have made progress. That is what holds me back the most I think. In my mind have created a dilusion that she has some control over me.  She can be at work not goint ot be home for an hour and I will feel completely trapped in my house. If I tunr on the TV and change the last channel she will know I watched TV. That kind of thing controls my thoughts. I hope this makes somehting happen. It can't stay the same because if I liked it staying the same I wouldn't be on this forum.

[ugghh]

Cipher - we are so glad you are staying here and we are all here for you!

I have a suggestion for you that helped me.  Try to start with something small.  For example if you are at work and she texts you, put the phone in you drawer go get coffee, take a walk, etc.  Specifically practice not responding for 30 minutes.  If she questions you, say oh I was away from my desk, I was in a meeting, etc.  After a while you stretch to an hour.  And so on.

Regarding setting boundaries at home, the most powerful tool I ever found was to get in my truck and leave.  I often would just drive to a nearby shopping center lot and sit quietly.  Sometimes I used the time to call and speak to my sisters, who provided such great support over the years.   Sometimes I reached out to a friend.  If I did not want to talk to anyone, I would shut off the phone as I did not wish to hear the incessant calling or texting as she tried to regain control.

[Surnia]

I brought up reconnecting wit my parents this morning to her. Not the landslide explosion I expected but I feel that is because she hasn't stewed on it yet.

Great first step. Now it would be good to follow with a next little step. For example action. A little visit at your parents.

My guess is that she is assuming that if she don't want not to "mend" you won't do it neither. Enmeshment - both partners have to think and feel the same, otherwise the rs is seen as not good.

[Cipher13]

Try to start with something small.  For example if you are at work and she texts you, put the phone in you drawer go get coffee, take a walk, etc.  Specifically practice not responding for 30 minutes.  If she questions you, say oh I was away from my desk, I was in a meeting, etc.  After a while you stretch to an hour.  And so on.

I have done this not on purpose but because legitimately I get busy and will go for an hour or more with reachin gout ot her. She hates that especially if I don't let her know in advance that I will be away or busy. Often times it doesn't  matter and says its not fair.

Regarding setting boundaries at home, the most powerful tool I ever found was to get in my truck and leave.  I often would just drive to a nearby shopping center lot and sit quietly.  Sometimes I used the time to call and speak to my sisters, who provided such great support over the years.   Sometimes I reached out to a friend.  If I did not want to talk to anyone, I would shut off the phone as I did not wish to hear the incessant calling or texting as she tried to regain control.

I only attempted to leave the house during a dyregualation moment 1 time. When she blocked my access to the leave the bedroom I was trapped. No phone to call and I was not going to physically touch her to move her out of the way. So I just waited it out.

Great first step. Now it would be good to follow with a next little step. For example action. A little visit at your parents.

My guess is that she is assuming that if she don't want not to "mend" you won't do it neither. Enmeshment - both partners have to think and feel the same, otherwise the rs is seen as not good. 

Right.  But I think last night it tunred to a diffrent conversation. She wants to split. I finally aggreed but emphasized that is not my first instinct. Nothing more was said ohter than she is stuck between leavign and no thaving a job or having to ask for her job back which she has until today to do I guess. Not going to be a fun weekend.

[Waddams]

I only attempted to leave the house during a dyregualation moment 1 time. When she blocked my access to the leave the bedroom I was trapped. No phone to call and I was not going to physically touch her to move her out of the way. So I just waited it out.

Her action in that regard is actually considered domestic violence and abuse.  It's called false imprisonment in my state and it's an arrestable offence.

I've also dealt with it as well with uBPDgf and in the moment, waiting it out is the best thing to do.  But after, when the opportunity presents, it's best to leave immediately.  

I'd strongly recommend that you leave when she's out of control.  And given this history of blocking egress, I'd recommend you set up a bug out kit.  If you see her building to losing it, then go ahead and discretely grab your phone/wallet/keys/etc.  I used to keep a small bag with clothes and toiletries, as well as some cash and a spare credit card.  I'd keep it either under the spare tire in my trunk, or tucked away in my desk at work.  That way, if I bugged out, I was prepared for a hotel and had a way to take care of myself for the night, and the instant the chance presented itself, I could make a break for it.  

I did use the bug out bag too.  Twice.  

Another thing is to have a recording device of some sort handy.  If you're in this situation you have to protect yourself.  If you see she's moving towards dysregulating, go ahead and get it and turn it on.  Smartphones have easy recording apps, I use mine all the time still for various things.  That way, you can record her blocking your exit, and yourself not making things worse.

If she ever hits you, it's okay to cover up, but don't ever hit back, don't actively block, etc.  Even blockign can leave a bruise on an attackers arm, in DV situations, the cops will construe it as you hurting her, and you'll be fitted up for nice, new shining wrist bracelets in short order.  Let her hit you, cover up so she can't get a good shot on you, and exit the area as quick as you can.  Try to make sure that you're the one marked/bruised, and not her.  The cops won't listen to much of what anyone says.  They'll look at evidence first, and if you're both marked, either you both or just will go get arrested.  The only way you'll be able to justify to them your innocence is if you've got marks and she doesn't.  Also, don't call the cops from the scene of the incident.  Get away, calm down, give it some time, then call from wherever you are.  Or just got the precinct and ask to make a police report outside of her presence.  A lot of states have mandatory arrest laws if the cops respond to the scene of an in progress domestic incident.  That changes if you are not at the scene with her anymore.  So if you end up going to the cops, you do it outside of her presence, with documentation in the form of a recording or witness, and the bruises/marks on your body you can show them.

Speaking from experience, the bruises are a lot less damaging than a false DV charge.

Right.  But I think last night it tunred to a diffrent conversation. She wants to split. I finally aggreed but emphasized that is not my first instinct. Nothing more was said ohter than she is stuck between leavign and no thaving a job or having to ask for her job back which she has until today to do I guess. Not going to be a fun weekend.

It's really time for boundaries for yourself.  I'd strongly recommend you withdraw from the drama and find something more satisfying to keep yourself busy, separate from her. 

As for staying together or splitting, in general, people are attracted to strong, confident other people.  People that are independent in a healthy fashion and aren't clingy/needy.  If you become independently happy, take care of your own needs, and begin to project a confidence in yourself, you might become more attractive to her again.  Improving things on your end is going to involve improving yourself.  Being stronger, holding your own boundaries, and being a better you is the first step.  She won't begin to respect you until you start to respect yourself first.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not going to repeat what waddams said, although it all sounds very good to me. Instead I'm going to address one other thing:

Right.  But I think last night it tunred to a diffrent conversation. She wants to split. I finally aggreed but emphasized that is not my first instinct.

What I'd recommend for a situation like that is saying something like "I want to stay together, but I can't keep you if you choose to leave." or perhaps "I can't make you stay." The difference is that you are accepting that she can split, rather than agreeing with her that splitting is the right thing to do.

It makes your position clear. It puts the responsibility for her choice on her shoulders.

As a side note... . one thing I've observed: My wife would say things about ending our r/s in the middle of a dysregulated episode. She also said things about me wanting to leave or that I should leave... . However, if *I* said something about leaving it was a completely different thing.

Nothing fair or even vaguely reasonable about it... . just the a consequence of the mental illness.

[hurthusband]

Question, how do you handle just the constant "life is miserable, I want anywhere but here?"

on and on negativity and basically assault on everything you are...

how do you detach to the point of not caring about it anymore

[Cipher13]

hurthusband

I can offer you some advice here. Maybe as a what not to do. I have not fully detached but after hearing from it for almost 13 years now. I have such a thick skin that even thought the conversation are uncomfortable most of it bounces off and some times I fell like Charlie Brown in school... "WAHH WAHHH WAHH!"

Its hard for me to do but I separate myself mentally during those situations and focus on something positive and ride the storm out. Its not hte right way to handle it either. It makes it worse.

[Grey Kitty]

What to do about a parade of negativity?

1. (Best)

Validate how negative the person is feeling, and how horrible those feelings must be.

Sometimes you can't do that... . or your ability to do that evaporates in several rounds of more negativity. If you can't do it sincerely, it is better not to try; half-validation usually backfires.

2. (Next best)

Honestly say that you can't cope with this negativity right now, and steer the conversation to something else, or end it if you have to.

If neither of those works, checking out and saying "Yes, Dear" may work... . but it is invalidating if you get caught, and a pwBPD is pretty sensitive to that sort of thing!

[hurthusband]

What to do about a parade of negativity?

1. (Best)

Validate how negative the person is feeling, and how horrible those feelings must be.

Sometimes you can't do that... . or your ability to do that evaporates in several rounds of more negativity. If you can't do it sincerely, it is better not to try; half-validation usually backfires.

2. (Next best)

Honestly say that you can't cope with this negativity right now, and steer the conversation to something else, or end it if you have to.

If neither of those works, checking out and saying "Yes, Dear" may work... . but it is invalidating if you get caught, and a pwBPD is pretty sensitive to that sort of thing!

the hard part about validating is she is accusing me of stuff that isnt true such as not loving her, or being cheap.  I just bought her a Lexus while I am driving a 10 year old Ford truck and her spending put us $30k more in debt in one years time!

I cannot validate stuff that is a lie about me.  I can say she I am sure she is miserable but response is "well what are you doing to do to change"