Still wondering what keeps on this board and not leaving

[Grey Kitty]

the hard part about validating is she is accusing me of stuff that isnt true such as not loving her, or being cheap.  I just bought her a Lexus while I am driving a 10 year old Ford truck and her spending put us $30k more in debt in one years time!

I cannot validate stuff that is a lie about me.  I can say she I am sure she is miserable but response is "well what are you doing to do to change"

Don't validate the invalid. You can validate how hurt she is feeling.

It really *is* horrible to feel unloved, unappreciated, etc.

That these accusations are not based in reality doesn't change her FEELINGS about them at all.

You also don't have to agree to change anything because of her feelings. (You may choose to for various reasons, good, or bad... . but it isn't part of validation.)

The nature of the beast here is that her feelings become facts to her, and you shouldn't validate 'facts' that don't match your reality. The other side of the coin is that you don't need to convince her that her 'facts' are wrong. Only that you don't see it that way. Speak your truth once, then drop the argument--she heard you the first time, and if you repeat it fifty more times, she won't believe you--she will just feel invalidated and respond worse!

[Grey Kitty]

HH, I just noticed something else you mentioned... . that this negativity is focused on not just how terrible everything in the world is, but you personally.

This is tougher to handle--you are much more likely to take it personally and get triggered. I found that I could sometimes stay validating for a little while, but if it continued, I would lose it.

I have accepted that the best thing I can do at a time like that is just disengage from the conversation, no matter what is being said/yelled/accused at me--I know the point where nothing I say could possibly make it better, and I know the point where if I say anything, it will be destructive, not constructive. Be ready to just leave an awful interaction before you make it worse!

I personally set a boundary that any time she started telling me what I was feeling, I was not going to participate in that conversation. (I was personally triggered by this sort of projection... . I sometimes screamed something like "STOP TELLING ME WHAT I'M !#@$!@# THINKING"... . I don't recommend making the point that way but it was occasionally the best I could do )

Another part of that boundary was that I wouldn't argue with her about doing (or not doing) abstract things. I was open to requests to change specific behavior, but it had to be something concrete.

"Buy me a 2014 Lexus" is concrete, and you will both know whether you did it or not at the end of the day.

":)on't be cheap" is vague, and you can very easily have reasonable, honest, different opinions about whether something you did today was or wasn't being cheap.

A pwBPD can very easily change the 'rules' of any argument to make sure you lose, and often will. Don't play that game. You don't need to justify why, just refuse to participate in these no-win situations. She won't fight fair most of the time... . make your own rules of engagement to keep out of those fights.

Aside: If her spending is reckless (+$30k debt in one year sounds reckless), and if you bring in most of the money in the household (I think you do), you are in a position to enforce financial boundaries with her, to protect your financial health. The actions required for this are within your own realm of control.

In your case, I'd get verbal abuse boundary enforcement strong and well practiced before working on financial boundaries--because enforcing financial ones are very likely to trigger verbal abuse immediately! (Or perhaps I should say WW3?)

[AimingforMastery]

the hard part about validating is she is accusing me of stuff that isnt true such as not loving her, or being cheap.  I just bought her a Lexus while I am driving a 10 year old Ford truck and her spending put us $30k more in debt in one years time!

I cannot validate stuff that is a lie about me.  I can say she I am sure she is miserable but response is "well what are you doing to do to change"

Don't validate the invalid. You can validate how hurt she is feeling.

It really *is* horrible to feel unloved, unappreciated, etc.

That these accusations are not based in reality doesn't change her FEELINGS about them at all.

You also don't have to agree to change anything because of her feelings. (You may choose to for various reasons, good, or bad... . but it isn't part of validation.)

The nature of the beast here is that her feelings become facts to her, and you shouldn't validate 'facts' that don't match your reality. The other side of the coin is that you don't need to convince her that her 'facts' are wrong. Only that you don't see it that way. Speak your truth once, then drop the argument--she heard you the first time, and if you repeat it fifty more times, she won't believe you--she will just feel invalidated and respond worse!

"That these accusations are not based in reality doesn't change her feelings"

WOW - does that ever hit the worst nail squarely and fiercely right on the head!

Thank you. Great reminder... .

[hurthusband]

It is hard because her mind is so often not in reality, and she literally wants to force everything into her non reality.  If she could just understand the simple concept of  "action a will result in result b" instead of "action a should result in nothing negative for myself"

Its hard cause she flies off the handle, and pisses soembody off, or loses something.  The result is unfair in her eyes and somehow my fault even when I was not there.  Bad things get ignored and the anger she feels is refocused onto something I have done wrong.   The anger is proporational to the situation that caused it so it is very often proporationally waaaay more than what I have done wrong

The other problem is that if say her family does something unloving, she accuses me of not being unloving.  All the wrongs of others are projected onto me as a reality even if there is no real evidence

[Grey Kitty]

You shouldn't validate the invalid.

If she says something is your fault when it is a natural consequence of her action, don't validate her blaming you.

If she gets lost in blaming/berating you, the situation is becoming abusive. Stop trying to validate and disengage from her.

Back to validation.

Bad things get ignored and the anger she feels is refocused onto something I have done wrong.

Try to validate her feelings--she really is upset about something bad that happened to her. That she is angry.

This sort of expression of validation for her feelings can work--And remember--Her feelings ARE real. And they are truly unpleasant to experience!

And no... . I didn't say it was easy. In fact, I don't consider myself very good at it, especially at the time I needed it. So cut yourself some slack if you don't do a great job of it some times... . or if it doesn't have the desired result some of the time.

[momtara]

People who care about you don't force you to choose between two things you care about.  So "You love your family more than me" is manipulative and an attempt to isolate.

[gettin-unstuck]

Cipher13,

You have a few choices.

1. Continue with things exactly the way they are.

2. Leave your r/s

3. Change your role in your r/s

4. Wait for your wife to change her role in your r/s.

Unfortunately, Option #4 is exactly the same as option #1.

None of them are easy. We all know that.

I generally prod people toward choice #3, but it really is your choice.

Which one do you want to try next, and how can we assist you on it?

This is so true. And, at least for me,  #3 really is the best option. But how HOW do we change our role in the r/s? By leaving? By responding differently? I'm new on this site, so maybe I haven't read enough. I'm right here with the rest of you though. And not sure what to do.

[Grey Kitty]

]But how HOW do we change our role in the r/s? By leaving? By responding differently? I'm new on this site, so maybe I haven't read enough. I'm right here with the rest of you though. And not sure what to do.

gettin-unstuck, I'm not going to recommend leaving the r/s (without hearing a lot more), although I do recommend leaving a toxic fight so both of you can spool down a bit...

So how to change? Stick around here and keep on posting more questions--you will get lots of input on what sort of changes you can make!

I'd recommend you go over to the "Staying" board and look around there. You will find a great deal in the Lessons (always in the sidebar when you are on that board). It is great stuff, and a lot of it--it will take a while to digest!

Then start a new topic on the Staying board (or this one if you feel more comfortable here). Pick something about your r/s that is driving you NUTS, describe it, and ask for input on what you can change.