Lying

[AimingforMastery]

How prevalent is lying as a part of BPD?

When do they most lie?

How can you tell?

Thanks... .

[55suns]

I am finding out it is a larger part then I had ever realised.  I am just now seeing that in my case a lot was at least a twisted half truth.  I am the kind of person that will trust until given a reason not to.  That being said, this is what I been learning:

1.  Things she told me years prior she didn't remember or changed the details of.   This is longitudinal,  but was the first   

2.  When confronted with facts that are unassailable,  trails off or adeptly changes topic, usually focused on you.  She did this to me on Sunday.   Now I know this is an outright lie... . which i knew anyway when she started to defend her actions.  I didn't let her know what I knew exept to counter her explanation... . really pisses her off, but she needs to know she will no longer be taken at face value.

3.  Half truths.   This is the hardest and one she uses most often.  Sounds plausible so I rarely challenged.  For instance,  she told me our daughter needed to stay home from school (sick), but really the dr. Said she could go to school but not over exert herself. My wife didn't want me to take her to a classmates birthday party on the weekend so twisted it. Unfortunately, you have to follow up on these (I called the dr. Myself)

[55suns]

Lastly, for me anyway,  since I now know she lies, I follow up with research if it is a significant enough topic... . and no more benefit of the doubt... . I go with my gut.

In my case I think she lies to cover up her guilt over misdeeds and to get what she wants or manipulate me to do what she wants.

Also, I think she also lies to make me feel bad.  For example, she came home from her therapy appointment and told me her T said she thought I had aspbergers.  You don't know me, but this is a completely ridiculous assertion.

Just my thoughts on my experiences and may not apply to your situation. Good luck!

[corraline]

In the case of my ex, lying was a large problem .  I caught him in so many lies. Sometimes lies about things that were strange, that didn't make any sense to lie about.

Then i would think that maybe that lie was covering up something bigger. It would frighten me how he could sit there and look at me so calmly with direct eye contact and tell me a blatant lie ! Ugh... . it went on and on until i just thought that it would be best to just assume everything that came out of his mouth was a lie. Then i felt crazy and guilty for thinking that  of course because he did tell the truth at times. I just couldn't tell the difference.  

I tried to check in with myself when I became fearful about something that just didn't seem right.  Is it me being paranoid this time ? Or is he being truthful now.

i just couldn't trust that much of anything he said was true... . I would discuss this with him because of course when he was caught out or did admit to lying he gave me the excuse that he was either protecting me or he was fearful of my reaction because of the abuse his mother gave him and her reactions to him or he said that just because there is no logical explanation for his lie that doesn't mean he didn't feel his own need to do it in the first place and he said that I just could not understand that. So I felt like he was holding me  responsible for his lying or inadequate for not understanding why he lies.  ugh... . when i think about this  i start to feel anxious again.

It was such an unhealthy situation.

[AimingforMastery]

Do they all lie?

Can you have a BPD who does not lie very much?

[waverider]

There are many levels of pwBPD lying.

Words are often selected that best describe how they feel or their "needs". Whether they are true facts, twisted facts, or just made up, the purpose is to describe how they feel.

Versions are often told out of fear of exposure and avoid culpability, again whether true, twisted or false, whatever sounds best will be used.

Making impressions, again they will often use what they believe you want to hear or believe will have the best effect.

At the end of the day they believe it is their business and how it affects you is not really their concern, as you wouldn't understand anyway.

They really do not have a real grasp on reality, and so there is no real solid truth to adhere to, no benchmark to even feel guilty about straying from.

This is their reality, they probably think others are the same. That may be why they struggle to totally believe what others say is the truth. Truth =what you feel now. Feelings can change, therefore so to must the truth.

How to deal with it? Take everything as interesting on face value,. Dont waste you life constantly trying to discover the real truth, just be prepared to not make any important decisions based on their realities alone.

Constantly chasing the "truth" can end up making you sick.

[going places]

How prevalent is lying as a part of BPD?

When do they most lie?

How can you tell?

Thanks... .

My experience?

Lies were his native tongue.

Deception was his favorite past time.

I would pack his lunch (make his fav meal the night before, and pack his lunch for the next day)

I would ask him "how was lunch"?

He would say "great" (after he threw the meal in the trash, cleaned out the tupperware to make it LOOK LIKE he ate it when really, he went to Taco Bell)

He literally lied to me about what he had for lunch.

He lied to me about EVERYTHING.

I had no idea. I just trusted him.

Totally, trusted him.

Until I caught him having an affair... . THEN I started looking at him, like I look at everyone else in the world.

How do I know he is lying?

1. Anger flares when I ask too many questions.

2. NO eye contact (or worse, look you right in the eye, with a smile on their face, and lie their ass off)

3. He's sneaky, so he will sneak around the house (body language is EVERYTHING)

4. He always leaves himself an 'out'. (I will do this... . unless this happens or "I will be off at 5pm, unless something comes up in the shop)

He literally lies all the time.

Imagine a spoiled, selfish, entitled 13 year old boy.

Imagine that same boy, when he doesn't get his way.

Yeah. I married that, and stayed for 24 years.

[AimingforMastery]

This is all shocking to me, as I have rarely ever caught her lieing.

In fact the other day she said to me " I need to tell you something, I lied to you about something"

She came clean and told me what it was.

Two days later I asked her why did you tell me that and she said "I can't lie to you, I feel guilty if I do"

I'd love some feedback to that... .

thanks.

[FigureIt]

I find that lying is all the time and sometimes about things that their is no basis to lie.

The only way to find out if their lying is to double check or research, otherwise you will never get the truth. 

[Perdita]

Have the same experience expressed by most everyone on this thread.  The lies are about the most insignificant, stupid things.  Things that it makes no sense to lie about.  Of course, there are also lies about more important things.  Will be too long to list here and I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Bottom line is I don't believe anything he says anymore.

Deception was his favorite past time.

It all seems very entertaining to my BPbf as well.

I would pack his lunch (make his fav meal the night before, and pack his lunch for the next day)

I would ask him "how was lunch"?

He would say "great" (after he threw the meal in the trash, cleaned out the tupperware to make it LOOK LIKE he ate it when really, he went to Taco Bell)

He literally lied to me about what he had for lunch.

WOW same crap here.  I'll cook extra for us so he'll have something to snack on later (cooking for lunch and making enough for his dinner later).  He'll call and say thanks that I made enough for another helping and that he just had it and it was great.  Then I'd get there the next day and find it sitting untouched in the fridge.

He lied to me about EVERYTHING.

I had no idea. I just trusted him.

Totally, trusted him.

Same story with me.

Until I caught him having an affair... . THEN I started looking at him, like I look at everyone else in the world.

Mine hasn't had an affair yet that I know of, but it was because of his lies involving another woman that I finally accepted that I can't trust anything he tells me.

How do I know he is lying?  1. Anger flares when I ask too many questions.

Yup, sometimes he will even ask "what's with all the questions" even when I have only asked 2.  I figure this is him buying time before he answers with a lie.   

The closer I get to the truth about something he really doesn't want me to know about is when he pulls the self-righteous anger thing.  The f-you tone in his voice.

2. NO eye contact (or worse, look you right in the eye, with a smile on their face, and lie their ass off)

Oh that right in the eye stuff is classic with my bf.

3. He's sneaky, so he will sneak around the house (body language is EVERYTHING)

Mine will even step outside at night in the cold when he doesn't want me to know who he is talking to (usually when talking to his dealer or pedestal girl). His phone is almost always on silent and vibrate now so I don't even hear the calls coming in.  He just disappears.  As a result I have learned to always close all the curtains as soon as it gets dark.  That way I can eavesdrop from inside the house without him knowing.  I've uncovered a lot of lies in this way.  I keep the info to myself to be used if and when needed.

I've also noticed that he likes to make calls when I am in the shower.  He will often even ask "what time are you going to shower?" and when that time comes "are you going to take that shower now?"  I know I am not stinking!  I think he texts whoever he wants to call to set up the time and then gets antsy when I am not in the shower at that time.

Then there's the sudden late night trips to go buy something.  Nowadays he will wait till I am in the shower or such and then tell me he is going to buy the paper or something for me.  How sweet, hey?  He is going out to buy something for me without me even asking for it.    Then he'll say "Oh I actually went there after work and they were out, but I'll try again".  Really?  The little convenience store restocked since 5pm?

Then he comes back about 20-30 minutes later and says he couldn't get it at the shop 3 minutes away so had to drive around especially for me until he found it.  I say nothing, but I can feel it in my gut: he just goes and parks somewhere nearby and calls his pedestal girl/cheap hussy for a little goodnight chat.  One of these night I am going to sneak out after him and find out once and for all. 

Here's a tip: if your BP comes back with something that you know should be cold from the fridge, but is room temperature ... . odds are they bought it earlier in the day and only pretended to go buy it on a late night trip to the shop.

4. He always leaves himself an 'out'. (I will do this... . unless this happens or "I will be off at 5pm, unless something comes up in the shop)

This is my situation as well.  What I hate most about this is that it makes it hard for me to make plans of my own.

He literally lies all the time.

[b/Imagine a spoiled, selfish, entitled 13 year old boy.[/b]

Imagine that same boy, when he doesn't get his way.

Yeah. I married that, and stayed for 24 years.

Excellent description. 

[Banshee]

This is all shocking to me, as I have rarely ever caught her lieing.

I never caught my exBPD in a lie either... it actually made me wonder if he had BPD because of it... but he also doesn't self harm either. I guess some lack all the 

[Proud_Dad]

I could say that my experience with truth in my relationship is a bit different than others here.

I have never outright caught my uBPDgf in a flat out lie but one incident that sticks in my mind was a few years ago when an old friend of mine was getting married. She hid the wedding invitation in her car and then proceeded to bash him because he never sent an invite. I found the invitation hidden in her car a year later when I was looking for a medical record from a recent Dr. appointment.

My most common interactions with lies are when she suspects me of lying. She will imagine a scenario or misunderstand a shared social interaction and accuse me of hiding something or lying about what happened. For example, at a local grocery store there was a girl checking out customers in the lane next to us. I thought I recognized her as a friend that I used to hang out with about a half of a decade earlier. I figured that it could not be her as the last I had heard she had moved out of state. She asked why I was checking out the checker and I told her my initial thought. She let it go for the time being... . gone home and found this girl on Facebook and learned that she had indeed moved back to our home town. SOO of course I was lying and had known the whole time. I still hear about how I lie to cover up the most insignificant things to this day.

So I guess my point is that I am on the opposite side of the insignificant subject lies. I am CONSTANTLY questioned and accused of lying.

Often she will try to catch me in a lie when I have been 100% truthful. She then gets mad that she can't catch me lying and still insists that I am not being truthful. Or she will verbally back me in to a corner and has in the past even made me believe that I am not being honest.

Jeeez, just typing this I am getting a bit upset... .

[WhatJustHappened]

. I am CONSTANTLY questioned and accused of lying.

SAME HERE.  But the more I think about this subject (lying), the more I'm convinced that at least 1/4th of the things she's told me about her past are fabricated.  Even my mom said 'there is no way someone has gone through all that she says she's gone through as young as she is'.  she always 'forgets what year the even happened or forgets how old she was... so the stories are never exactly the same, so you can't say, 'wait, i thought when you were 12 you lived in idaho, but you just said that this happened when you were 12 and living in texas.  convenient that I can't put the chapters together.

in my experience, yes, lying is a HUGE part, i'm very new to figuring out BPD so I could be wrong.

I wish I could record everything so that I could go back and show her what happened.

She gaslights me a lot.  trying to make me think i'm crazy or stupid.

[Perdita]

So I guess my point is that I am on the opposite side of the insignificant subject lies. I am CONSTANTLY questioned and accused of lying.

I've read a lot of posts elsewhere on the board though of people being accused as you are.  It seems almost as though female BPs are more guilty of this than the male ones.  I could be wrong.  Just an observation.  My bf has never accused me of lying.

[waverider]

Often fessing up to a lesser lie is using the tactic to cover up a bigger lie.

Constantly being accused of lying causes you to omit things in case it triggers this. You get caught in this and it creates the very issue you were trying to avoid

[going places]

This is all shocking to me, as I have rarely ever caught her lieing.

In fact the other day she said to me " I need to tell you something, I lied to you about something"

She came clean and told me what it was.

Two days later I asked her why did you tell me that and she said "I can't lie to you, I feel guilty if I do"

I'd love some feedback to that... .

thanks.

I am so jaded by my lying STBEXH... .

Anytime he would "confess"... . it was usually a week or so long process, because he'd "forget" this or that, and when I would question he'd say "OH I have something to tell you" to try to regain my trust (by looking like he was being forthright / honest)... . when actually, he was just spinning more lies.

Punch me in the face with the truth, just don't kiss me gently with a lie.

[mywifecrazy]

How prevalent is lying as a part of BPD?

it's like their oxygen

When do they most lie?

when they are awake

How can you tell?

their lips are moving

Thanks... .

[going places]

How prevalent is lying as a part of BPD?

it's like their oxygen

When do they most lie?

when they are awake

How can you tell?

their lips are moving

Thanks... .

Brilliant

[corraline]

It just kinda makes me feel sad really.

It must b exhausting to have to keep track of all of the things u say and do to avoid being caught out. Its so much easier to b an honest person i figure. Hey im no angel all of the time but i do my best cause it just doesnt feel good.

I think where i lack honesty the most is not fully disclosing how upset i am when i feel someone is being unfair or mistreating me.  Im getting better. Its scary to speak up to bosses, significant others or people who you fear you may b risking alot if you do.

Anyone else care to discuss their own issues regarding honesty ?

[AimingforMastery]

How prevalent is lying as a part of BPD?

it's like their oxygen

When do they most lie?

when they are awake

How can you tell?

their lips are moving

Thanks... .

Yes, that was rather good.

[waverider]

It just kinda makes me feel sad really.

It must b exhausting to have to keep track of all of the things u say and do to avoid being caught out. Its so much easier to b an honest person i figure.

This is the whole BPD chicken and egg situation, does the chaos and dysfunctionality cause the Disorder, or does the Disorder cause the chaos and dysfunctionality? It is self perpetuating.

The effort to make excuses is more difficult than just doing things right in the first place.

[AimingforMastery]

Often fessing up to a lesser lie is using the tactic to cover up a bigger lie.

Constantly being accused of lying causes you to omit things in case it triggers this. You get caught in this and it creates the very issue you were trying to avoid

This is very wise.

My BPDgf says she found a piece of jewellery worth many thousands of dollars at her work. I asked her if she had notified her boss. She said yes.

Then recently she said I need to tell you I lied to you. I did not tell my boss about it. She said I cant lie to you as I feel guilty.

The good thing was she brought this up herself, as in I was not talking to her about lying at all.

So, sounds good, right?

But was it... . ?  Was it a cover up for a bigger lie? Like perhaps where she really got the jewelry from.

But she brought this "I told you a lie" up, out of the blue. In complete isolation. So not done to cover anything up.

It is so hard to trust in the midst of all this.

It really tests my relationship to uncertainty. This forum helps... . It is like you have to accept two realities and wait for information to make the right decision.

Anyway, any views on this "unprompted coming clean"?

[waverider]

I get a lot of unprompted confessions. they are usually laying the foundation for something else. Sometimes just testing the water to see if you are open to believing something.

In my case it is never out of genuine guilt, why this and not the 100 other fibs that have been told? There is always a motive.

Just a sales trick, pointing out a minor defect so you may get distracted from seeing a bigger one.

Exposing the whole truth simply leaves them feeling too vulnerable to contemplate.

I find it best not to pursue it when I get these revelations. Just take it at face value and move on.

The only truth is you will never know the truth.

Even if you heard it, you would never fully trust it. So what value would it have without complete trust?

[AimingforMastery]

I get a lot of unprompted confessions. they are usually laying the foundation for something else. Sometimes just testing the water to see if you are open to believing something.

In my case it is never out of genuine guilt, why this and not the 100 other fibs that have been told? There is always a motive.

Just a sales trick, pointing out a minor defect so you may get distracted from seeing a bigger one.

Exposing the whole truth simply leaves them feeling too vulnerable to contemplate.

I find it best not to pursue it when I get these revelations. Just take it at face value and move on.

The only truth is you will never know the truth.

Even if you heard it, you would never fully trust it. So what value would it have without complete trust?

WOW - best just to move on then.

[corraline]

certainly

[WhatJustHappened]

How prevalent is lying as a part of BPD?

it's like their oxygen

When do they most lie?

when they are awake

How can you tell?

their lips are moving

Thanks... .

THIS made me  .  it's so sad but true! Can I get that on a bumper sticker? 

[Runningbare]

This thread should be a sticky. 

To add to all the exceptionally accurate accounts here. When you try to combat the lies by looking futher or investigating anything that is said. Realise that to everyone else they know, you are being portrayed as jealous, insecure and stupid. Which eventually is what you become to some extent anyway.

Even when I do know for sure she is somewhere or if she is with someone and being honest she will drop hints that she isnt. The ploy being to show your doubt in trusting is unfounded.

There is no way to deal with it except... . seeya 

[waverider]

A previous workshop on this subject

Is lying common in pwBPD?

[AimingforMastery]

This may run counter to the thread but I am working with an Indian mystic to help understand my gf. I have to say he has really helped. Until the next What the heck just happened it has been plain sailing by listening to his advice.

Of course this may be short lived, but so far every time he has been proved right.

This does not mean I will not say bye anyway, but... . I am learning a great deal from him.

[waverider]

This may run counter to the thread but I am working with an Indian mystic to help understand my gf. I have to say he has really helped. Until the next What the heck just happened it has been plain sailing by listening to his advice.

Of course this may be short lived, but so far every time he has been proved right.

This does not mean I will not say bye anyway, but... . I am learning a great deal from him.

Is he teaching you listen and interpret better?