My marriage really needs HELP...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello everyone... . This website looks like it could help me a little... .

Ok... .

Im 47yrs and been with my partner for around 22yrs... .

We have been married for 17yrs... .

We have 3 great kids... . 14, 10 and 8yrs old... .

Our marriage has been quite good over the years... .

Me and my wife have always got along quite well... .

Ok... .

just after we first moved out together I started up an addiction of sorts chatting on the

phone to ladies sexually... . I never wanted to meet them in person... . and never wanted to leave my partner now wife... . I now know that I had a self esteem issue... .

My partner found out about what I was doing and of course it hurt her and she was going to leave but we worked through it... .

Of course I thought just saying I wouldn't do it again and not looking for help from a councillor would work... .

I was very wrong and now realise I needed help... .

Anyway I would not look for the chatting to ladies again for probably around 8yrs or so... .

Then I started it again but on the internet... . chatting sexually but not wanting to meet ect ect... .

I was caught again by my now wife... . and yes of course hurt her again... .

and I still didn't know why I was even doing it... .

I was really getting nothing out of it for myself... . just hurting myself and my wife... .

So again ive stopped doing it by myself thinking I can stop myself... .

So 10yrs or so later... . and after bringing up 3 kids

I end up doing it again

and again really not sure why I need to chat like this on the internet... .

My wife had enough and told me things are over... . and wants to end the marriage...

I can totally see why... .

And it was at this point that I needed to workout not just for my family but for myself as well

why I was doing it... .

Me and my partner started seeing a marriage councillor... .

My wife just wanted out... . no question... .

I wanted to sort things out... . I still love her very much... . and I know Ive done things wrong... .

Our councillor asked me to go and talk to another councillor just one on one to sort things out for my issues... .

The new councillor was very cleaver... .

He went though everything from my past and our marriage... .

And worked out that the times I was chatting on the internet was the times I had stress and issues

within myself and at home... .

I started chatting almost as soon as I moved out with my now wife... .

It was a big change for me... . moving out for the first time... .

Then I started the chatting up just after we had our second child and after

my very close friend committed suicide... .

And then 10yrs later I was chatting while my wife was going through a really bad time with a really stressful job... .

So my councillor put my chatting down to me having a low self esteem and also looking for affection on the internet that I wasn't getting at home... . while we had second child and my partner in a stressful job didn't help things... .

Anyway my councillor has been fantastic... . He has shown me a lot of things I have been doing to destroy our marriage... .

I am now very happy to be criticized about things Ive done wrong in my marriage... .

I want to be pulled up on things Ive done wrong and really really want to work to save our marriage... .

Im making huge changes to myself and my way of life... . and I feel much happier within myself... .

But is my wife a little bit BPD... . ?

During our councilling sessions together... . she told the councillor infront of me that she has plenty of issues to sort out... . BUT she says that she is not willing to work on her issues at all... .

Whenever I try to talk to my wife about our current problems and how Im working for our whole family to make things better for us all... .

She amost ALWAYS brings up every little thing that Ive ever done wrong in the past.

And she tells me that she can never let any of it go... .

I feel like im again trying to get over things that I did 20yrs ago... .

Im not the same person I was back then... .

Ive change a huge amount... . opened up to so many people about the things ive done wrong... .

Im more than happy to admit my faults and work on them for all to see... .

But my wife will still not look at her own issues... . cant get past anything Ive ever done wrong even if its 20yrs ago... .

I feel like she would rather leave me and move out rather than addressing the issues she has inside herself...

She just cant let go of all the things that have been upsetting her... .

I wish she could see that all the things ive done that have hurt her... . well that I didn't do any of them to hurt her... . I know that they have and Im very sorry for it... . but she wont let things go that happened 20yrs ago

[rollerball]

Hello everyone... . This website looks like it could help me a little... .

Ok... .

Im 47yrs and been with my partner for around 22yrs... .

We have been married for 17yrs... .

We have 3 great kids... . 14, 10 and 8yrs old... .

Our marriage has been quite good over the years... .

Me and my wife have always got along quite well... .

Ok... .

just after we first moved out together I started up an addiction of sorts chatting on the

phone to ladies sexually... . I never wanted to meet them in person... . and never wanted to leave my partner now wife... . I now know that I had a self esteem issue... .

My partner found out about what I was doing and of course it hurt her and she was going to leave but we worked through it... .

Of course I thought just saying I wouldn't do it again and not looking for help from a councillor would work... .

I was very wrong and now realise I needed help... .

Anyway I would not look for the chatting to ladies again for probably around 8yrs or so... .

Then I started it again but on the internet... . chatting sexually but not wanting to meet ect ect... .

I was caught again by my now wife... . and yes of course hurt her again... .

and I still didn't know why I was even doing it... .

I was really getting nothing out of it for myself... . just hurting myself and my wife... .

So again ive stopped doing it by myself thinking I can stop myself... .

So 10yrs or so later... . and after bringing up 3 kids

I end up doing it again

and again really not sure why I need to chat like this on the internet... .

My wife had enough and told me things are over... . and wants to end the marriage...

I can totally see why... .

And it was at this point that I needed to workout not just for my family but for myself as well

why I was doing it... .

Me and my partner started seeing a marriage councillor... .

My wife just wanted out... . no question... .

I wanted to sort things out... . I still love her very much... . and I know Ive done things wrong... .

Our councillor asked me to go and talk to another councillor just one on one to sort things out for my issues... .

The new councillor was very cleaver... .

He went though everything from my past and our marriage... .

And worked out that the times I was chatting on the internet was the times I had stress and issues

within myself and at home... .

I started chatting almost as soon as I moved out with my now wife... .

It was a big change for me... . moving out for the first time... .

Then I started the chatting up just after we had our second child and after

my very close friend committed suicide... .

And then 10yrs later I was chatting while my wife was going through a really bad time with a really stressful job... .

So my councillor put my chatting down to me having a low self esteem and also looking for affection on the internet that I wasn't getting at home... . while we had second child and my partner in a stressful job didn't help things... .

Anyway my councillor has been fantastic... . He has shown me a lot of things I have been doing to destroy our marriage... .

I am now very happy to be criticized about things Ive done wrong in my marriage... .

I want to be pulled up on things Ive done wrong and really really want to work to save our marriage... .

Im making huge changes to myself and my way of life... . and I feel much happier within myself... .

But is my wife a little bit BPD... . ?

During our councilling sessions together... . she told the councillor infront of me that she has plenty of issues to sort out... . BUT she says that she is not willing to work on her issues at all... .

Whenever I try to talk to my wife about our current problems and how Im working for our whole family to make things better for us all... .

She amost ALWAYS brings up every little thing that Ive ever done wrong in the past.

And she tells me that she can never let any of it go... .

I feel like im again trying to get over things that I did 20yrs ago... .

Im not the same person I was back then... .

Ive change a huge amount... . opened up to so many people about the things ive done wrong... .

Im more than happy to admit my faults and work on them for all to see... .

But my wife will still not look at her own issues... . cant get past anything Ive ever done wrong even if its 20yrs ago... .

I feel like she would rather leave me and move out rather than addressing the issues she has inside herself...

She just cant let go of all the things that have been upsetting her... .

I wish she could see that all the things ive done that have hurt her... . well that I didn't do any of them to hurt her... . I know that they have and Im very sorry for it... . but she wont let things go that happened 20yrs ago

[rollerball]

I just don't see the logic of moving out with the kids and ending the marriage while I am doing all that I can to fix things and make things better for us all... .

I wish she could let the past go... .

Never forget things Ive done... . but move on... .

The other thing that cofuses me is that while we go through our normal days right now... .

Things are going really well... .

We get on fine... . have a laugh together... .

she is still cooking me dinner and washing my clothes ect... .

Ive stepped up and doing a lot more around the house... .

Im going out of my way to Listen to her lots more... .

and I feel closer to my wife that I ever have... .

but as soon as I bring up our problems to talk about... .

She shuts down... . doesn't want to talk about it... .

and she has even been making bad things up about me in her head that she KNOWS are not true...

To either really hurt me... . or maybe to tell herself she is doing the right thing by ending the marriage

[rollerball]

I don't know... .

Maybe if she did leave would things be better for all of us... . ?

I don't think she will be any happier... .

Or should I just give up on trying to mend things?

All the little things ive been told im doing wrong in our marriage Im working on... .

Listen more... .

Talk more... .

Spending less time doing hobby things and playing stupid games on facebook... .

Spending more time with the kids... .

Doing more to help out around the house... .

ect ect... .

Its not like I wasn't doing those things in the past... . just not enough and not in the right ways... .

My self esteem dropped as my wife didn't have as much time for me or didn't show me as much affection because I wasn't listening or talking to her enough... .

These things I know we can work on... .

Just hard when she will never let the past go... . and wont even think of addressing her issues at all?

Am I stuck?

Thoughts anyone?

Please... .

[woodsposse]

 

I know it seems like you may be in a very rough spot - that's cause you are probably in a very rough spot.  Not to worry... . a lot of us here have been in rough spots so maybe some of the things we can share may be able to help some.

First off, thank you for sharing your story so openly.  I know it isn't easy - so tht is a great step forward.

From your description (and... . I'm no expert), I wouldn't go to trying to determine if her issues are BPD related or not. 

I was with my wife for almost 20 years and we raised three girls. So I've been living with women most of my life... . and from the sounds of it - your actions hurt her.

It doesn't sound as it is something that happened 20 years ago she can't let go of.   It sounds like whatever hurt or trust broken is what has occurred and for the behavior to have repeated over the course of your relationship may have caused a great distance between you two.

But there is hope.

Unless I missed it in your posts - are you all in counseling at this point?  Couples and individual?  I think that may be helpful for you all at this point since you have been together for a good while, with kids, this could be an great place to go and work on the issues.

[heartandwhole]

Hi rollerball,

I'm glad you reached out, and I think it's great that you are working so hard on your issues, and trying to move forward.  I'm sorry that your wife doesn't feel the same way you do – that hurts, especially when you really want things to work between you.

Like woods posse mentioned, I'm not sure your wife's unwillingness to let go of the past is BPD related.  It sounds like she isn't ready to look at herself right now, and in my view, the best thing is to accept that for now, and keep working on yourself.   

You are in counseling, and that's a great step. I think most of us are more open to a sensitive dialog when we feel heard and understood.  Have you tried validating your wife's feelings about the behaviors that hurt her?  That might help to at least get a conversation going.

We have great resources about validation.  Here is a link that is helpful for all relationships: Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Trying to save a marriage singlehandedly is very difficult, but working on yourself will help you grow, no matter what happens with your relationship. Perhaps as your wife sees the positive changes in you over time, she will feel more open to counseling. 

Is she pressuring you to leave the house at the moment?

heartandwhole

[rollerball]

Thanks guys for getting back to me so fast... .

Yes my wife did pressure me to leave... .

I didn't really have anywhere to go... .

Im the end Im glad I didn't go... .

I feel I can do more being here... .

Our marriage councillor did say that I should stay here... . as I am the one that is working on getting our marriage back on track... .

She also said that If my wife wants to leave the house with the kids then that is her choice... .

My wife can do as she wants... . but its her choice... . and It would just be nice if she could work with me to mend things... . Im open to trying anything to bring things back to us all being happy... .

I have so much respect and love for my wife... . I think we have taken each other for granted over time... .

Im staying consistent with the changes that I have made... .

I havnt gone overboard... . as in doing EVERYTHING around the house... .

If I do too much then I wont be able to keep it up forever... .

I know the things I have needed to do and wasn't... . and now are more than happy to step up and admit the things Ive done wrong and start doing... .

My wife says that I will not be able to keep it up... .

She expects me to go back to the way I was... .

I feel myself that Ive changed for the longterm... .

I guess she just needs to see that... .

[OutOfEgypt]

Hi rollerball,

So is your wife BPD, or do you only wonder that she is?  From what i've read, I don't see much to say that she sounds that way -not enough information.  But from reading your first few posts, here's what I sense:

1. From what I see, you have a difficult time handling your emotions, so you don't feel them directly.  Maybe you don't believe you are worth having your own feelings and perceptions.  I don't know.  But when emotions rise (new situations, death of a friend, marital issues), tension rises, anxiety rises, and you unconsciously look for outlets to release that tension.  You probably have a difficult time with things like assertiveness, emotional closeness and intimacy, people-pleasing, etc., too, right?  I can tell because most of what you write about is what you did wrong and what others say and think, not what YOU think and feel.  I can also tell because, in your pain, you are ruminating with countless "maybe this, maybe that"s.  I can tell because I've been there with all of those things.

2. Relating to my first point, I'm betting she wears the pants in the relationship.  Maybe its only because you feel guilty for failing her in these ways, but what I read is "I tip-toe around and try to be a good boy."  Since I have been there, it is not surprising that you look to release all of your pent up tension by seeking attention from outside non-personal, non-close, sexual sources.  This isn't an excuse for that kind of thing, but I'm just stating a reality.  Is this accurate? 

3. Regardless of whatever issues she has (which I have no clue about), she is obviously bitter.  And it seems like her resentment goes back years and years, not merely in reaction to your more recent occurrence sexual chatting.  I've heard that women are like a bathtub.  The tub keeps filling and filling over years and years until it finally overflows, and then that's it.  Regardless of if that is true or not, her resentment and blame and the way she is handling her pain right now is her issue.  It is not helping the relationship at all -it is hurting it, stopping it.  But as you pointed out, there is nothing you can do about that.

You made mistakes.  You have issues.  I would be extremely angry at you, too, if I was your spouse, but seriously... . welcome to the human race.  This is why marriages have vows -because we are going to be close one minute and drift apart over years, because we all have issues that we never knew about until we finally started living together and the commitment settled in.  Yes, you can't do anything about what she does or how she responds.  You can apologize and show signs of good faith that you are taking responsibility for your actions, but for God's sake don't grovel and don't yourself up.  It does nothing at this point.

But are there other issues going on?  For example, is part of your emotional retreat in general in response to emotional abuse from her?  I always felt that my ex wife and I generally got along very well, but in truth she controlled me with her constant judgment and criticisms and blame.  And I was her little scapegoat.  I followed her around like a little puppy dog, always hoping I could be enough for her and finally make her happy and not so disappointed in me.  It was my contribution to the destruction: allowing her to set all the rules for the relationship.  The unwritten contract of our relationship was essentially "You, as my husband, exist for me and my needs.  When you don't fulfill my needs, I will withhold from you, resent you, punish you, and replace you."  And in my desire to just keep her, I was complicit in endorsing that kind of screwed up contract.

But my issues, which were real, were just a convenient catch-all to blame for the issues in our marriage, a way for her to avoid really looking at herself.  (that is partly a hallmark of BPD)  Looking back, it is obvious (I went to 9 different counselors over 13 years to "fix" my issues, and she went to ZERO for hers... . which she claimed she had but would never explain what she thought they were).  But at the time, I did *anything* to just be better for her so that I could save our marriage.  But at some point you have to stop debasing yourself. 

You say you are happy to be criticized.  In some way, I understand what you mean.  But why would you be happy to be criticized when you are the only one taking initiative to look in the mirror?  Come on.  Doesn't part of you somewhere in there feel tremendous pain at the notion that your wife can shut you our so completely and not own up to any of her part in the dance?  Every relationship is a *dance*.

At the end of the day, stand firm in the truth and draw a line in the sand.  From what it sounds like, you are doing everything you can do.  She will either step up to that line and meet you there, or she will not.  That doesn't mean you flip out and demand that she do anything.  Ultimatums don't work.  She needs time, probably.  So let her have time.  As hard as it is, take your eyes off of her the best you can and put them on your life.  But this guilt thing, and this tip-toeing around... . it does not become you, and it will only throw a wet blanket over who you actually are as a man.

[woodsposse]

 

Very well said mathetes76.  Very well indeed.   

[rollerball]

Thankyou Mathetes76

Looking at your post... . well... .

To be honest... . you are totally correct with everything really... .

Things got worse yesterday... .

My wife moved out and took our 3 kids with her... . without telling me she was going to do it... .

Im sitting here alone at home and feeling very VERY hurt... .

But your right... .

Not much I can do about it... . Ive done all I can... .

And I do feel alot of pain that I feel Im the only one working on mending the marriage... .

I guess I need to let that go at some point... .

I truly love my wife... . and miss her and the kids so much... .

I just hope her moving out may make her see that we could move past this and

bring the marriage out the other side and be so much stronger

[OutOfEgypt]

That's not something I'm glad I'm correct about.  I've just been there -takes one to know one, type of thing.  I can't imagine the pain you are going through right now.  Things have a way of settling down over time, though.  She may relax after her initial anger goes down.  Please just keep moving ahead with the help for yourself.  Either way, you still have to live your life, so may as well make it more peaceful and happy for yourself and for your kids (and maybe even for your wife).   The days get better.  I know it may not seem like it, but they do.

[rollerball]

Yes its very hard sitting in an empty house... .

When it should be full of kids running around and my wife here... .

Just have to see how things pan out... .

She is wonderful and its just sad to see our marriage come to an end like

this from some stupid things Ive done... .

But your also correct... . My wife is not perfect as well... .

I dont think any marriage will ever be perfect... .

Take a lot of work to keep it going... . and we both havnt been working on it enough

Thanks again for all your help

[rollerball]

I must also add though... .

That I dont feel my wife was giving me any emotional abuse really... .

Not in the past at least... .

She has said some really nasty things over the last few weeks that

Im sure she said just to hurt me... .

But it hasnt been going on over our whole marriage

[woodsposse]

When my wife and I decided to split - it was the hardest thing for me to do.  I know for the longest time I had tried my best to do whatever I could do to save the marriage.  We were together for a very very long time.  Been through a lot of ups and downs - but nothing, in my opinion, was worth throwing everything away.

The sad part about it was, regardless of my ex-wife's disorder - she wanted/needed something else.  Once I really came to understand about living with someone who has a PD, it became clearer and clearer to me that we see the world through two totally different perspectives.

The difficult part was... . she is so intelligent.  She is a wonderful woman and mother and friend (and I do miss our conversations mostly).  But at the end of the day, especially when stressful times hit for whatever the reasons - her and I both, unconsciously, reverted to our childhood traumas and acted on a script which was handed to us oh so long ago.

While I was in the r/s and stress, there was no way I could hear anything or understand what was going on around me.  Now that I'm out of it - and have had a lot of time to deal with the separation, things became much much clearer to me. A major part of me wishes I could go back in time and not do all the things I did in the r/s.  Things which seemed right at the time... . but, now that I have a better understanding of what I was dealing with (both her issues and my own), if I wanted to save what we had - I know I would do a lot of things different.

There are a lot of tools we could use (follow the links on the right) to better understand what we are dealing with.

This may not sound like something you could find any happiness in - but... . take the time now that you are in a quiet house and reflect... . not on the relationship, not on her "issues"... . but on yourself.  I know it is difficult to do (oh, trust me, I know it is difficult) - but in the quiet time, maybe you can reflect on yourself and what is it inside of you which makes you operate.  Maybe you may find that you too are operating on a script which was handed to you long ago and you didn't even realize it.

For me... . it was only then, in the quiet time, where I finally came to the understanding of what my own childhood traumas and my FOO set in motion.  At this point in my life, I can't go back and change anything - and the life I once had with my wife and kids is gone.  She has moved on - and so have I.  But by  me hanging on to it for so long after I left the walls of the home we tried to build together only made it harder for me to accept where I was at now... . and what I brought to the dance we were locked in.

After I was able to come to that understanding... . and understanding of me - I was able to let go and move on.

I'm in no way suggesting to let go and move on.  But I am suggesting the universe has put you in a place for a reason.  A place of silence.  maybe it is to slow down and listen.  There comes a time we should all slow down and listen.  Quiet alone time isn't always a bad thing.

[rollerball]

Yeah Im not letting go or moving on just yet... .

But I hear what you are saying... .

Yeah all the what if's that go into your head about things that could

and should have been done differently in the past just keep popping into my head... .

So sad to see a good marriage that can be great just getting destroyed... .

And it will hurt all 5 of us... .

[woodsposse]

Unfortunately, the what if's will do that.  But it is important not to let yourself get too immersed in the ruminations.

What can you do to take care of yourself through these trying times?

You have to remember to eat.  You have to get some good sleep.  Don't let yourself get too hungry or tired or lonely.  Are there friends you can spend time with?  Are you active in your community or perhaps a church or something?  Do you have a councelor you can speak with?

[rollerball]

Im off to see my councilor again on monday night... . will have plenty to talk about... .

I have fund it very hard to come home to an empty house... .

Usually have 3 kids and a wife here when I get home from work... .

Ive got good friends and family... . support is not to bad... .

Just feel alone here in an empty house... . not use to it I guess

Thanks everyone for posting in this thread... .

Has made a big difference