HaHa Moment - uBPDD Married an NPD

[mom2bpd]

  I read an article today about BPDs and Narcissists that really struck home with my situation with my adult DD.  The article said that BPDs are looking for someone to define them, and the NPD wants to define everyone so is more than happy to oblige.  The NPD is really happy if the BPD does what he wants, but if she doesn't, he doesn't mind using whatever means to get her to do it... . including physical abuse.  Also, the BPD looks to the dominant personality in her life to define her.  My uBPDD married an NPD in the fall, and since she moved out with him, she's done so many things that I would never dream she would do.  So after reading this, I had an haha moment that maybe I should be trying to boost her self-esteem while trying to establish a connection with her again.  Also, I've felt for a long time, that he was capable of physical abuse, and he told me that his father physically abused his mother and he and his sister.  So he probably doesn't want her to have contact with her family, and he is destroying her self-esteem or what little she has.  Her H also thinks that I'm strange because he knows that my H doesn't control me so he probably would prefer that she doesn't have a connection to me.  So in short, I know there's nothing I can do if he is physically abusive since I have no proof, but I can try to build her self-esteem up so she realizes (what she already knows but may be ignoring) that this is unacceptable.  I think she believes that he'll help her to handle her money issues and he'll eventually get a good job.  Let me know any thoughts or ideas on my theory.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[js friend]

Hi mom2BPD,,


I believe too that my dd19 is with a Npd/BPD too.She does so much better when she not with him but always ends up back with him.I think it also comes from the fear of being alone that anyone will so. She has been with him on and off for 5 years now and she has been pyscologically damaged by his abuse. He defianitley wants to define her with his put downs... . How his exgfs were much prettier they are than her, How fat she is, that after  having gd no other man would even be interested in her with all her stretchmarks.!... . The things that come out of his mouth which i have heard him say are unbelievable which he seems to completley believe... . and yes there has also been physically abuse between them... . yet they cant seem to be without one another, and neither seem to care if the baby if caught in the middle of this stuff. Both are so needy yet want to control one another!

I dont know if there is a way to raise her self-esteem. It has to come from within doesnt it.Before he came on the scene i worked so hard to improve her self esteem with days out, nice clothes, telling her how good she was at things, yet nothing worked and she has never really believed in her own self worth.

Ive found that i and her friends are immediatley painted black again when b/f is back on the scene, and dd will distance herself doesnt answer calls or comes around. I know she feels embarrassed when things go wrong again... . which they always do.

I would love to get through to her that she is lovable and can find someone woth her love in the future, but she so much wants the outside world to see this happy little family at whatever the cost doesnt believe that so she thinks she can do it without him... . i just dont know how to get through especially now baby 2 is now on the way and this boy has never lifted a finger to help her with the first one

[Iamafaerie]

Mom2BPD

I have the exact situation with my daughter unBPD. The aspect of BPD that we do not always recognise as important as parents, when we are 'painted black', is that the pw BPD does not fully understand the difference between 'love' and 'need'. They confuse it.

When they no longer need us they often feel they no longer love us, so they paint us black in order to find a way to push us away from them. They cannot cope with more than one significant other in their life as what are normal expectations in an important relationship are more than they can cope with.

Borderlines are often attracted to and attractive to people with narcissistic personality disorder because the Narcissist is driven and establishes structure and control in their life. They are not easily swayed from getting what they want out of life and out of people, so the pw BPD has to simply slot themselves into an already established lifestyle and set of values that is rigidly enforced. They find comfort in this and will adjust their behaviour in order to get what they want out of  life. Eg: routine, financial security, a home, structure, rules. As the Narcissist is often highly skilled at enforcing the rules of the relationship, through manipulation, passive-aggressive words and withholding what the pw BPD wants from them, the relationship can last a long time.

The Narcissist rarely uses open and honest communication which can be too confronting for the pw BPD to cope with. As mothers and fathers tend to want to use open and honest communication with their pw BPD, the BP sees the parent as "the problem", the one who makes them feel bad, so they paint them black in order not to not have to have what they see as confrontations. So they can avoid feeling bad.

It is almost as though this kind of shallow relationship that a pw BPD and Narcissist get into is the most either of them can deal with and it works for them. At least until the Narcissist does not get enough attention or feel valued enough for what they can provide. If that happens when children come into the relationship or the children become teenagers and take the attention away from the N, the relationship can last for them a long time.

It is not until the pw BPD loses what they are getting from the N, that they turn to someone else to get their needs met. They may meet another person who promises

a better deal or if that is  not available, they may remember that their parent used to provide their needs and decide they "need" their parent again. Therefore love them again and seek restoration of the relationship.

A lot of people believe that the pw BPD suffers more than we suffer. I am not convinced of that at all. I believe that as long as their needs are being met, they do not feel suffering. The basis for my belief is that any human who suffers seeks to end the suffering. I have only witnessed suffering in my daughter when there was a threat to her 'perfect fantasy world" she has built for herself. A threat created by anyone who has known her for a long time or who may dare to speak openly and honestly.

My daughter is 43 yrs. I don't post or check often so may not be able to respond. I thought it was worth putting my perspective out for consideration. Not stuff that everyone wants to hear. I am at the point of having accepted that my relationship with her is over. I gain some peace from knowing that she is happy in her own way and that  is important. I have grieved my relationship with her and as I have already lost a son to death I know well how to do that. I am not willing to spend my life grieving for her. The word my therapist used is "futile". That was a huge relief to hear that word. It is what I was ready to hear.

This is the stage I am at, some may see it as wrong. I don't want to view anything in my life as right or wrong any more.

[Iamafaerie]

Mom2BPD

There are many therapists who are now addressing the relationship between people with BPD and Narcissists. Particularly females with BPD and male Narcissists. These can be found if the words BPD & Narcissist couples or relationships are googled. Many articles and even a book have been written to explain the dynamics well.

Best wishes to all.

[mom2bpd]

Nice to meet you, Iamafaerie.  Thanks for explanation of why the uBPD is attacted to NPDs.  I will definitely google these type of relationships too to see what I'm dealing with.  I do understand what you are saying about the BPD not knowing the difference between love and need.  I laid down boundaries to keep our BPD from taking everthing we've ever had or will have from us.  So she now feels that we will not meet her needs, and he will eventually. I do feel that the relationship is shallow so your explanation of that was right on.  We'll see how long it lasts because it seems that it would be difficult for the BPD to constantly meet the NPD's needs.  I suppose the exchange of him meeting her needs while she meets his is the real key to sustantaining it.

I'm really tired of trying to work toward repairing my relationship with my uBPDD, but I know I have to do it for my GD.  One member here suggested that I try the CHRIP method in the Valerie Porr book.  I'm reading about that now and will try that.  These various methods are difficult for me because while I feel I could have handled things differently or maybe could've been less truthful, they personally attacked me.  So I cannot validate the invalid.

Thanks so much for your explanation and I'm sorry to hear that you've given up on your relationship with your BPDD.  I do understand though.

[Iamafaerie]

"seems that it would be difficult for the BPD to constantly meet the NPD's needs."

On this point, often the need the NPD has from the BPD is the need to be their sole support system. This is easy to gain through isolating the BPD and becoming their whole world which the BPD is happy to comply with. Happy to take on their lifestyle, ethics and even hobbies.

Narcissists think that any woman who does not obey their husband is strange. They also have no respect for a husband who tolerates it or is content with a mutually respectful relationship that does not involve control and manipulation.

From what I have read these relationships mainly end when the Narcissist becomes a less reliable source of security in the NPD's eyes. BPD females will often easily move into an affair that quickly becomes the new relationship they move onto if they gain the attention of a male who will provide more financial & physical security for them.

Or if their current NPD husband objects strongly to how the children are raised this can  cause an threat to the BPD sense of security in the marriage and she can begin to look for a better relationship.

BPD's almost never leave a marriage unless they have another relationship waiting in the wings.

(The movie Blue Jasmine with Cate Blanchett was a classic example of this.) They break down terribly if they leave a relationship and are alone and quickly find a replacement if not beforehand.

I honestly do not think she will be interested in whether you help to build her self esteem or not. I do not feel they have the capacity or willingness to receive support or encouragement from two different sources. They become enmeshed in the man they are with and cannot risk that in their minds.

I have a grandson who I have not seen for six years. He is now almost 13 years old. I tell myself he will be able to find me when he is 18. I was never allowed to know him well anyway so honestly feel he is a stranger to me.  Nobody was allowed to know him well.

I see that you live your life honestly and openly as I do. That is difficult to unlearn and to find a way to navigate how to say things the way they need them to be said without being not genuine. I have imagined the life if I had her back and it will never be

genuine.

They live a life of pre tense, lies, manipulation and bull... . t. I can't do it. If I ever had her back in my life it would have to be that she asked for it, she listened to what she had to do to begin it and we would never be the same as we were.

We would meet only rarely for lighthearted conversation at a neutral place for a lunch or something. I will never trust her again and am at the point of thinking I deserve some life that does not involve this heartbreak and pain.

I lost my son 14 years ago, cut ties with my narcissistic mother and sister and the brother who is a controlling male, developed PTSD shortly afterwards, then my daughter sent me a NC letter 5 years ago. I have spent the past 5 years studying PTSD and BPD. Enough already. I am tired. Exhausted. Damaged and traumatised. I take  2 types of anti-depressants and an anti-anxiety drug if I think I am going to have a panic attack. I am in therapy which triggers the ptsd and have to have days of quiet to get over it.

This is not what life is meant to be. So when people on the boards say that the BPD suffers as much as we do, I can't see it. I think they do have distorted thinking, I also think they are selfish and manipulative people who do not care about others.

I am horrified that this came from me and my whole family dynamic, but I am not going to do penance for life when nobody else takes responsibility for any of it.

My last words to her face to face were. "This is not ALL my fault" She just looked at me. I knew she knew she agreed, but refused to say so. When my child is now a 43 year old woman, I had to ask myself if I would sit and have a cup of tea with a woman who had this set of values to live her life and could I be a part of that. The answer is no. I can't.

I could not sit and listen to it.

Maybe if she sought out therapy for two years straight I would consider it. Not until then.

Sorry if I waffled about me too much, please save your own soul and know that when your body starts to show signs of breaking down, it is time to let it go. I wrote her a sorry letter and two further messages on her Facebook over Christmas and got nothing. So I wrote her what my boundaries are and how sorry I am that if she decides in ten years to seek me out , I will sadly be unable and unwilling to accept her back into my life.

My niece did that with my aunt. Painted her black for 30 years. She did not see her grandchildren. Then when my aunt was 80 years old, she wrote to say she was coming to see her. My aunt sat and smoked for the 48 hours it took for her daughter to get there. By then she had carbon monoxide poisoning and had to be hospitalised with lung failure. She never left care and died 3 months later. The daughter played Florence Nightingale and behaved as though she cared the whole time.

This is not going to happen in my case. I urge you to take care and give yourself respite. Do not let your daughter be the death of you.

[mom2bpd]

  Iamafaerie, so sorry to hear about your issues with your BPDD. I'm trying to stay hopeful but, I believe you are so right about the narcissist wanting to isolate the BPDD so that he's her total support system.  This is definitely what he's after and this is why he thinks that I have strange ideas (he told me so face to face).  He's also from a male-dominated country, to top it off. 

I don't want to give up yet on a relationship with my BPDD and GD.  Grandparent's Rights in my state are not strong.  I'll be talking to a lawyer about it soon to see what they have to say but I'm not hopeful that it would solve any problems we have with seeing our GD.  I've also learned from my reading, that the NPD is very jealous so he'll probably decide they have to move if I was successful with a gp rights case.

Thanks for your information though and the warning to not let her be the death of me.  I'm trying to take care of myself and stay busy so that I don't think of how bad it is with our relationship right now.  It's tough for me because our GD actually spent more time with us than with her mom (the BPDD) or her stepfather in the last year.  We were really close to this child but he's trying his best and succeeding at eroding that relationship.  Very sad to think that my golden years may be spent in such misery.  I'm holding out hope for now because it's really all I have besides this blog, my higher power, and al-anon.

I hope and pray you find peace and forgiveness in your heart for what your daughter has inflicted upon you.