Boundaries

[Gladys]

My adult son is 42 and lives with us. I am struggling with boundaries because he ignores them. He sleeps most of the day and blames the medication, but when he does wake up he walks around in his underpants, even though I've asked him not to. When he is awake he stays in bed. He lives a completely separate life from us and it's like having a ghost in the house.  He refuses to seek treatment and I feel really stuck. His GP knows about this but does nothing. Any advice, please?

Thanks

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Gladys

Is your son able to work? If not work volunteer? I think would would make it part of the agreement for staying at your home. Has he ever lived independently?

[Gladys]

He is on incapacity benefit and doesn't work. He also has some narcissism so will only do work he wants to do. Any attempts to persuade him to work are met with fingers in his ears (literally). He also refuses to leave. He only hears what he wants to hear and thinks his being around and behaving as he does has no impact on me, despite rational explanations. I realise this is part of his depression but it makes me depressed, too.

[lever.]

This sounds very draining Gladys.

Can you start small with just a few basic things eg I want you to get dressed properly when hanging around the house?

He does sound depressed and just getting dressed properly would help that.

Is he involved with a Mental health team as well as the GP?

I agree that this is very difficult . It is difficult to have consequences for a depressed adult. How easy is it for the rest of you to ignore some of this and just get on with life?

Can you do things for yourself Gladys like get out and meet friends

[Gladys]

Hi

Yes, I do have a life - and a job and a partner but they are all suffering. I have said that the bottom line is that he gets dressed but that is ignored. The response is usually 'I'm ill.' No, I don't know to access any support from the mental health team. My own GP says she can't do anything because he has to go to his own GP - and he doesn't. I can cope with the rages most of the time, but I find it so hard that I'm watching my son and his depression. It seems that unless he is a problem to society then it's just my problem.  Has anyone else been in this position and dealt with it?

[kelc323]

Hi Gladys, I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you. It sounds like you and your family are being held hostage in your own home. That's not ok. At the age of 42, I imagine that he is pretty set in his ways. However, there is a pattern in the family dynamic which I often refer to as "the game." If you can change the rules of "the game" there will be a different outcome; however, you may need lots of extra support. I remember talking with a psychiatrist once about my daughter and I used the phrase, "but, she is very ill" and it was in regards to boundaries and expectations. His response was that even schizophrenics have the ability to make different choices (when they're not psychotic) if presented with a consequence and with the knowledge that the consequence would be experienced. In short, I guess he meant that "illness" isn't always an acceptable excuse.

Are you seeing a therapist? Sometimes, their support and guidance can be very helpful in situations like this. Also, I'm not sure where you live, but do you have a community-based mental health center for the indigent? If so, I would also encourage you to set up a meeting with them and see what kind of plan could be developed to help you and your son.

[lever.]

Gladys, It sounds as if it is time to set some conditions for him living at home. At least that if he is ill he needs to see his GP.

Your post sounds like you are probably in the UK.

Is there any voluntary organization like Carers outreach near you?

I think social services are obliged to do a carers assessment on your own needs.

Have you considered telling your son that he is 42 and it is time for him to live independently, particularly if he won't accept help.

It isn't a question of getting him to leave immediately but you could help him with this process.

If he was with a mental health team his case manager could help.

You will need support yourself.

I think I would contact the mental health team directly and tell them that your son is not seeking help and you are finding it difficult to cope.

Ask them if there is any service to support carers where you could discuss the options.

Your son sounds very stuck to me and I think you may have to take some decisive action.

If you know what help is available to him you might be able to sit down with him and tell him what changes need to happen if he is to stay with you and also to discuss whether some sort of independent living would be better for him.

I think you may find it easier to support him if he wasn't in your home.

Perhaps you could put it to him in a "no blame" way "you are an adult now and our lifestyles have become incompatible".

[peace in steel town]

Wow. He does all of the above because you let him. When he rages you back off, he tunes you out the way a teenager would. If it were me, I would change the locks on my house the next time he left the house. I did when dd left home.

[Gladys]

Yes, I do see a therapist - and I do know I have to change the rules but that's easier said than done. (As I'm sure you know). I am thinking about this a lot - but any other hints would be so welcome.

Thanks.

[lever.]

It IS very difficult. That's why I was suggesting looking for practical support. Counselling is a help to a point but you need to know the practical steps that you can take if he completely refuses to co-operate with you.

The counselling gives emotional support but you need to know what alternatives are available to him and what steps you could take.

I am not sure if you are in the UK but if you are please try to access a service for carers. They would not tell you what choices you should make but just advise you what you COULD do

This is your home and if your son wishes to live with you he does need to show consideration however depressed he is.

Unless you can present him with a possible consequence he sounds too "stuck" to change.

I don't under-estimate how difficult this is both practically and emotionally

[hopeangel]

Gladys I can't tell you how sorry I am for your predicament, they really know how to break our hearts don't they! 

I have had some success with boundaries (at times   ) and I would suggest they are set in a very firm way but also with validation for his own suffering for example 'I KNOW you are ill and I DO care for you very much, you know that - you are my son and I love you dearly, however I also have everyone else to consider in this house and I'd like for you to put some clothes on before you walk round the house, even if you feel unwell, out of respect for us all, I will support you with everything but I think if you can't put on some clothes you will not be able to walk round like that and make us all so uncomfortable! (get increasingly firmer with consequences!)'

Even when set with kindness, these boundaries can lead to rages which I always remove myself from swiftly and THEN I may see some results later but I have been working on this for a while now and it is very difficult and doesn't come naturally to me! It does work for me in an erratic fashion though ie some success some of the time!

I do hope this helps and I feel for you, it aint easy being a mum of BPD child/adult! 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Gladys]

Thanks for these sympathetic responses. Yes, I know I need to set boundaries. I know it sounds as though I'm making excuses for myself but when he's this ill he doesn't rage, he just sleeps for 2 days because he's so depressed and I find that the most difficult thing - to watch someone I love so depressed. I've tried setting boundaries in the past - like getting dressed, doing more for himself etc but it doesn't work. He really doesn't believe he can do it - or doesn't try because it's not that important to him and he's so obsessed with his own needs. He has been to the Dr in the past, of course, has a psychiatrist and takes antidepressants, but they never follow up his case because he's not a danger or a nuisance to anyone except me. I've been to my GP but she says she can't do anything. I've written to his GP to tell him what it's like at home but all he does is tell my son I've written. We're just not a high profile case. The only thing which ever got him out if this pattern was going to a private clinic for drug treatment a few years ago, but we can't afford that now. I know I sound very negative but I guess I'm worn out with it all.

However, I have now asked for a Carer's Assessment and I will have another go at boundaries because I know this is now at the expense of my own health. Thanks to you all. This site has been such a find for me.

[pessim-optimist]

That would be discouraging in and of itself that the health community isn't helping much because there is no imminent danger... . I am sorry Gladys; hopefully the Carer's will be able to help.

However, I have now asked for a Carer's Assessment and I will have another go at boundaries because I know this is now at the expense of my own health. Thanks to you all. This site has been such a find for me.

Please keep us posted on what happens, ok?

And when it comes to boundaries, let us know if you have questions. It isn't always easy to navigate those situations. We have some tools  on this site (you can have a look in the side panel toward the top of the page (fifth line in the TOOLS section) ---------->

Mainly boundaries are about you, and are supposed to be in place to protect yourself. As such, you need to be able to enforce them (have a consequence of what happens if the boundary is violated)... .

[Gladys]

OK. Thanks. I have a question.

When I try to put a boundary in place, or make a suggestion, and this is ineffective, what do I do? Any face to face rational conversation is impossible because he will walk away or get angry, seemingly unable to accept or hear what I'm saying. I think he feels threatened by any change. Even if I made him leave, which I did once, I was more worried when he wasn't here, had many phone calls and he really didn't look after himself. He didn't eat and lost about 2 stone in weight. So for me, it's easier for him to be here. How do I get him to think about anything other than the present moment? I know I'm being bullied.

[pessim-optimist]

I think he feels threatened by any change. Even if I made him leave, which I did once, I was more worried when he wasn't here, had many phone calls and he really didn't look after himself. He didn't eat and lost about 2 stone in weight. So for me, it's easier for him to be here. How do I get him to think about anything other than the present moment? I know I'm being bullied.

I think you are probably right that he fears change... . What are the things he likes to do, something that he enjoys that puts him in a better mood?

Also, as long as your desire for his well-being is greater than his, you will be vulnerable to his bullying... .

To start, is there anything that he really wants/likes that you are providing that you could provide as long as he is compliant in putting clothes on?

When I try to put a boundary in place, or make a suggestion, and this is ineffective, what do I do?

In short - natural consequences are best boundary protectors.

Boundaries by definition are there to protect you, rather than change other people's behavior (that may or may not happen, it depends on their choice and how uncomfortable the consequences are).

So, if someone is crossing a boundary of yours, you need to be able to do something to enforce it without necessarily getting them to do anything.

We have several workshops and articles on Boundaries that might help you understand the concept better, this is the main one: Boundaries.

Let us know what you think... .