car seat

[Eco]

well just like I was expecting ,things are going to start ramping up as its only 1 week before overnights start. at todays visitation my ex took the opportunity to find something wrong with the way I had my car seat. my daughter weighs 20 lbs and I have the drs report as proof from her last check up 2 weeks ago, I have the seat installed for a 20 lb child.

she claims that my daughters weight fluctuates between 20 and 22 lbs, and that I need to move the seat to the 22 lb setting, I said I would look into it later as my daughter was already in the seat my ex then pushed over a large trashcan behind my car preventing me from leaving and said " you're not going anywhere till you fix the car seat" I started recording and documented that the car seat was set up to the weight that the dr report specified I then got out of the car and recorded my ex and showed the trashcan blocking my path as she rambled on about the safety of my daughter. just to cease conflict and get out of her yard I put the car seat to her demand and left.

I had a great 2hrs with my daughter as always and when I returned to my exs house my ex said she did some research and found out that it really didn't matter about the 2 settings of the car seat  she then started a new angle and said the seat was too lose ( the seat is perfectly safe and only budged about a inch side to side) my ex said that her car seat doesn't move at all and asked me if I wanted to inspect it for myself. I agreed and low and behold I was able to nearly pull the car seat totally out of the vehicle it moved a good 12 inches and was very unsafe. She was clearly embarrassed  and acted shocked and said this never moved that way before, I could have rubbed it in but all I said was this is safe? I decided to leave at that point as she was clearly flustered.

on a side note she definitely knows that im going for custody, its good and bad I think. the good is she isn't acting out as bad now that she knows im documenting, the bad is she has cleaned up just enough to not give me her true ways as evidence.

[Matt]

You need to minimize the contact between you and your ex.  Find a neutral place, where there are lots of people - one of our members does exchanges in a McDonalds, and some do them in police stations.  Make sure there are security cameras so if needed the tape would show you didn't do anything wrong.

Consider audio-taping all your encounters.  Many phones and .mp3 players have that feature.

Do not have your ex anywhere near your car, or go anywhere near her car.

Do not talk to her at all.  Communicate by e-mail, which leaves a record.

If there is a physical conflict - and tipping over the trash can was the thin end of that wedge - the man is usually assumed to be the problem.  You can be arrested and charged, and you may be presumed guilty.  That happened to me and many others here, even when the woman was the aggressor.

Meet inside the place where there are other people.  Take the child and walk away, or hand the child to the other party and walk away - don't talk at all and don't be near her for any longer than it takes to hand over the child.

You are playing with fire.  Your only protection is to have at least one non-family adult third party present any time you have any contact with your ex, and to minimize that contact.

[david]

Brought back memories reading this one. When our S15 turned 10 I let him sit in the front seat of my car. I live in Pa. and the rule is 8 (age/ he was 10) and 80 (weigh/he was the tallest in his class and weighed 100 at the time). I actually anticipated ex making this an issue so I went to the police station and asked an officer. He gave me a pamphlet.

When ex found out S10 sat in the front seat she sent an email (I was only communicationg through email by then) accusing me of negligence, endangering a child, and a bunch of other nonsense. I explained what the police officer told me and gave me. She insisted I was lying. I stopped replying to emails at that point. I received several emails after that telling me I was wrong and putting "her" child in danger. I ignored it all. After a few months it stopped. It wasn't until our son turned 13 that she allowed him to sit in the front seat of her car.

If there is no way to have a witness present (the kids or you do not count) then record it to protect yourself. I am not legally allowed to record in my state. However, I explained to my astty that I was just recording myself. The fact that she is also recorded was because she was near me at the time. I figured the judge could disregard her in the recording but would be able to see and hear that I did nothing that ex claimed. I started doing that after I was put in jail for two weeks because of a false allegation by ex. My atty said I had a valiod point and to continue recording to protect myself.

Ex accused me of assaulting her. Both our boys were present and were actually in court to testify. Both said I didn't touch her. The judge said she didn't believe me or our kids and found me guilty of disorderly conduct. I spent two weeks in minimum security prison. I purchased an audio and video recorder the day after I was released. The first time I went to pick the boys up at her place she came walking out towards my car. I turned the camera on and pointed it at her. She turned around and went back into her place. She tried once ot twice after that with me doing the same thing. She stopped coming near me after that.

[Boss302]

well just like I was expecting ,things are going to start ramping up as its only 1 week before overnights start. at todays visitation my ex took the opportunity to find something wrong with the way I had my car seat. my daughter weighs 20 lbs and I have the drs report as proof from her last check up 2 weeks ago, I have the seat installed for a 20 lb child.

she claims that my daughters weight fluctuates between 20 and 22 lbs, and that I need to move the seat to the 22 lb setting, I said I would look into it later as my daughter was already in the seat my ex then pushed over a large trashcan behind my car preventing me from leaving and said " you're not going anywhere till you fix the car seat" I started recording and documented that the car seat was set up to the weight that the dr report specified I then got out of the car and recorded my ex and showed the trashcan blocking my path as she rambled on about the safety of my daughter. just to cease conflict and get out of her yard I put the car seat to her demand and left.

The real "argument" here isn't the car seat - it's "you're a bad dad." That one will get whupped out at you about 233,772 times before it's all done. Assuming you aren't, ignore that noise. Tell her that if there's a question as to whether the car seat is OK or not, she should call the cops. I'd say she won't. If she does, then they'll check the seat and you'll be in the clear. Either way, it takes away her power of drama.

And definitely call the cops if she pulls the trashcan move again.

The key here is to not let her emotionally engage YOU. That's just manipulation. Let her engage the cops. They won't star in her drama play.

[Eco]

You need to minimize the contact between you and your ex.  Find a neutral place, where there are lots of people - one of our members does exchanges in a McDonalds, and some do them in police stations.  Make sure there are security cameras so if needed the tape would show you didn't do anything wrong.

that's my intent when we go back to court, its not safe to meet at her house and I have documentation to back that up.

Consider audio-taping all your encounters.  Many phones and .mp3 players have that feature

I do, I always have my phone recording at pick up and drop off

Do not have your ex anywhere near your car, or go anywhere near her car.

I agree but she wont hand my daughter to me she sets her down in the front seat of my car. this is something I intend to bring up in court

The first time I went to pick the boys up at her place she came walking out towards my car. I turned the camera on and pointed it at her. She turned around and went back into her place. She tried once ot twice after that with me doing the same thing. She stopped coming near me after that.

I have had similar results ,she knows im recording and she doesn't start with me as much.

And definitely call the cops if she pulls the trashcan move again.

The key here is to not let her emotionally engage YOU. That's just manipulation. Let her engage the cops. They won't star in her drama play

I plan on doing just that.

[Eco]

latest round was today, after I dropped my daughter off my ex called me 3 times (I normally don't answer her calls but I thought it was a emergency) she was in full melt down mode accusing me of cutting my daughters hair. I told her I didn't cut it or have it cut and that I only washed it.  she kept insisting that I cut it and said I had no right to cut it, I told her she had no proof that I cut it and that I was hanging up which I did.

I feel this is just another attempt to stop the overnights next weekend, I have no clue what she will attempt next sat when I go to get my daughter for the first overnight. im expecting the worst for sure and I will be very surprised if she doesn't try anything.   

[Matt]

Do not talk to her by phone.

Do not talk to her face-to-face.

Do not be around her unless there is a non-family adult third party present.

Do not respond to any accusations, threats or complaints.  Only respond to e-mails, and only when it is something constructive.  Anything inappropriate - don't respond.

If she calls and you decide to pick up, and she starts in with anything inappropriate - accusations, threats, stuff about the past, stuff not related to your daughter - anything which is not 100% appropriate - hang up the phone and don't pick up if she calls back.

You need to learn the same thing I had to learn - the discipline to be prepared to end any conversation - hang up the phone or turn and walk away - when you hear anything which is not 100% appropriate and constructive.  But better yet is to never have any phone or face-to-face conversations with her, unless there is a non-family adult third party, like your attorney, or the judge, or a professional mediator, present at all times.

You might be as thick as I was.  I didn't learn this til I went to jail.  In jail I thought to myself, "I guess this relationship isn't working."  That's when I realized I had to change - I had to get advice from people who knew more than I did, and I had to take that advice.  My criminal defense attorney told me, ":)o not have any contact with her, except e-mail, without a non-family adult third party present every minute."  He made it clear to me that if I could not live with that rule, I should find another attorney, because he could not defend me if I continued to put myself at risk.

About exchanges:  If you can get the court to change the arrangements, great.  But in the meantime, set a boundary.  E-mail her, cc:ing your attorney, that you will not do exchanges at her house or your house, because those places have too much risk for your daughter and yourself.  :)on't argue about it, just tell her.  Give her some choices of other places, like the police station or a busy McDonalds nearby.  Tell her she can choose a place, or if not you will:  "Yesterday I proposed either the police station on Main or the McDonalds on Cedar for our exchanges, and you did not respond.  So I will bring Daughter to the police station on Main at noon Saturday.  I will wait inside.  If you are not there, I'll wait til 12:15 and then leave."

Tell her what you are going to do, and then do it.  Other issues, handle through your lawyer.

If you don't learn this before you go to jail, you'll learn the way I did - the hard way.

[Boss302]

latest round was today, after I dropped my daughter off my ex called me 3 times (I normally don't answer her calls but I thought it was a emergency) she was in full melt down mode accusing me of cutting my daughters hair. I told her I didn't cut it or have it cut and that I only washed it.  she kept insisting that I cut it and said I had no right to cut it, I told her she had no proof that I cut it and that I was hanging up which I did.

I feel this is just another attempt to stop the overnights next weekend, I have no clue what she will attempt next sat when I go to get my daughter for the first overnight. im expecting the worst for sure and I will be very surprised if she doesn't try anything.   

Eco, listen to yourself - accused of gettng your kid a haircut? Since when is that something to be "accused" of? You and I know you didn't, but assuming you did, isn't that something that a dad would do? She's just looking for something, anything to push your buttons. And the fact that you took that as an "accusation" indicates that she succeeded. Even if you did get your kid a haircut, you did nothing wrong. Why would you take that as an "accusation"? What's next - "accusing" you of buying her new sneakers? Horrors! 

BPDs are empty inside. They fill the emptiness with drama and conflict. That's what's happening here. She is trying to "accuse" you of being a bad father. And your first inclination is to get your back up. That's natural. But you have to let go of that natural response... . because nothing about your relationship with her is natural or normal. Normal people don't accuse good fathers of being bad fathers over nothing. They require proof. Your soon to be ex doesn't. She judges people as all good or all bad, and you've been judged as all bad.

You need to retrain your mind to account for this, at least where she's concerned. She knows this is your tender spot, and she'll hit it mercilessly. If you KNOW you're a good father, she won't be able to do this anymore. So that's your first job - believe in your own ability to be a father. Once you're secure in that, her ability to "troll" you with this will be severely diminished, meaning she won't be able to create drama with it anymore. And since drama is the point of the exercise, she'll stop, and probably find something else to "troll" you with.

In the words of Master Yoda... .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4jeREy7Pbc

How about this: "OK, if you feel strongly enough that I should not be allowed to get haircuts for our child, then bring that to the court's attention at the appropriate time." She knows damn well a court isn't going to care who gets your kid's haircuts, as long as it's getting done. There's no drama potential there, so the issue will go away. She'll go on to the next thing, and as long as you know how to respond, that one will go away too.

Eventually she'll learn that you can't be trolled. It took YEARS for me to get to that point, and I'm not 100% there yet (I'd say I'm about 85% of the way), but once she learns, she'll point her drama gun at someone else.

[livednlearned]

Where was your recording device when you were fiddling with the car seats?

I'm not sure I agree that the recording is containing her behavior. She blocked your car with a trash can, and managed to get you to lean inside her car. Where was she standing when this was happening?

You know she's going to have a reaction when you pick your D up for her first overnight. Can you have someone come with you to record the interaction?

Also, Boss302 makes a good point about your defensiveness about cutting D's hair. It's ok to give your D a hair cut. It's also ok to hang up if someone is verbally abusing you. "You have come to the false conclusion that I cut Ds hair. If you have nothing else to ask, and cannot be reasonable, I will hang up." If she's flaming abusive, then just hang up.

If it helps, you can send her an email to say, "Please do not contact me unless there is an emergency involving D. If you call me about an issue that is not urgent, and cannot speak to me in a civil tone, please know that I will end the call."

[Matt]

Where was your recording device when you were fiddling with the car seats?

I'm not sure I agree that the recording is containing her behavior. She blocked your car with a trash can, and managed to get you to lean inside her car. Where was she standing when this was happening?

You know she's going to have a reaction when you pick your D up for her first overnight. Can you have someone come with you to record the interaction?

Also, Boss302 makes a good point about your defensiveness about cutting D's hair. It's ok to give your D a hair cut. It's also ok to hang up if someone is verbally abusing you. "You have come to the false conclusion that I cut Ds hair. If you have nothing else to ask, and cannot be reasonable, I will hang up." If she's flaming abusive, then just hang up.

If it helps, you can send her an email to say, "Please do not contact me unless there is an emergency involving D. If you call me about an issue that is not urgent, and cannot speak to me in a civil tone, please know that I will end the call."

If it's legal to record her, you might consider sending her an e-mail, cc:ing your attorney, telling her that you will be recording all future interactions with her.  That way it's out in the open and she might modify her behavior.

I agree with Boss and LnL:  You are so used to being bullied by her that you may not even know what is normal anymore.  You need to take a few big steps back away from the relationship - quit interacting with her except very serious matters about the child, and only by e-mail.  Build up relationships with healthy people - your own family, friends, whoever - so you can re-learn what is normal.  (The example Boss gives about being "accused" of giving your daughter a haircut is a really good one - it shows how twisted your relationship with your ex has become and how far you have adapted to her bullying.)

[david]

I used to jump through hoops to minimize ex getting upset with me too. That was when we were still together. When I thought for myself conflict arose. I learned to avoid the conflict and didn't realize what it was doing to me. After she left I found a T that helped. I made boundaries and stuck to them. I only communicate through email.                                                                   Ex still sends emails telling me what is wrong with me (I am a bad dad). If there is one thing in the email that pertains to our boys I reply to that and that alone. If not I do not reply. I try to keep my emails to 3 to 5 sentences. I don't defend my actions because I don't need to.

I get my kids haircuts when they need one. Ex can figure it out the next time she sees them.

I buy the kids their shoes. Ex used to buy them and the kids did not like them. They were uncomfortable or just plain ugly. She would buy them when she was out shopping (she loves shopping) and they were not with her. I took them out for shoes. We went to several stores and I gave them a limit on how much they could spend. I made them try them on to make sure they were comfortable and they fit properly. Ain't rocket science. Ex still buys them shoes the same way she did before. The kids don't wear them because they don't fit. Ex gets mad because "she spends her hard earned money and they do not appreciate her". If I sent an email to ex explaining this I would create conflict and a string of nasty emails. Also, she would take things out on the kids. I don't try to figure these things out anymore. I just accept it as it is and move forward.

[Eco]

thanks for all the advice and insight to my situation.

If you don't learn this before you go to jail, you'll learn the way I did - the hard way.

thanks matt, I don't intend to learn the hard way.

Eco, listen to yourself - accused of gettng your kid a haircut? Since when is that something to be "accused" of? You and I know you didn't, but assuming you did, isn't that something that a dad would do? She's just looking for something, anything to push your buttons. And the fact that you took that as an "accusation" indicates that she succeeded. Even if you did get your kid a haircut, you did nothing wrong. Why would you take that as an "accusation"? What's next - "accusing" you of buying her new sneakers? Horrors!  rolleyes

very true, although I did tell her that I can cut my daughters hair if I want I did play into my exs trolling again. I do way to much defending with her.

You need to retrain your mind to account for this, at least where she's concerned. She knows this is your tender spot, and she'll hit it mercilessly. If you KNOW you're a good father, she won't be able to do this anymore. So that's your first job - believe in your own ability to be a father. Once you're secure in that, her ability to "troll" you with this will be severely diminished, meaning she won't be able to create drama with it anymore. And since drama is the point of the exercise, she'll stop, and probably find something else to "troll" you with.

that I do, and my ex does hit that spot mercilessly

In the words of Master Yoda... .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4jeREy7Pbc

nice one!

Where was your recording device when you were fiddling with the car seats?

it was recording and she was aware of it.

I'm not sure I agree that the recording is containing her behavior. She blocked your car with a trash can, and managed to get you to lean inside her car. Where was she standing when this was happening?

it used to be more frequent but she cant always contain herself even she knows im recording. she was standing right next to me.

You know she's going to have a reaction when you pick your D up for her first overnight. Can you have someone come with you to record the interaction

good idea

If it helps, you can send her an email to say, "Please do not contact me unless there is an emergency involving D. If you call me about an issue that is not urgent, and cannot speak to me in a civil tone, please know that I will end the call."

I have done that. that's why I thought it was a emergency

If it's legal to record her, you might consider sending her an e-mail, cc:ing your attorney, telling her that you will be recording all future interactions with her.  That way it's out in the open and she might modify her behavior.

another good idea

I agree with Boss and LnL:  You are so used to being bullied by her that you may not even know what is normal anymore.  You need to take a few big steps back away from the relationship - quit interacting with her except very serious matters about the child, and only by e-mail.  Build up relationships with healthy people - your own family, friends, whoever - so you can re-learn what is normal.  (The example Boss gives about being "accused" of giving your daughter a haircut is a really good one - it shows how twisted your relationship with your ex has become and how far you have adapted to her bullying.)

very true, I've been going through counseling and im getting better I used to be even worse.

I don't try to figure these things out anymore. I just accept it as it is and move forward.

great advice, that's my main problem