newbie / my divorced ud33 who has 5 children...

[hermama]

Again, I just don't know where to begin. I'm so grateful for finding this wonderful site with so much information that I am printing out and reading like crazy.  I'm sure I'll have to buy a new printer cartridge VERY soon!

I am a mental health counselor and just now realizing my 33 y/o daughter MUST be BPD.  This would explain literally everything we have been going through since she was an adolescent. I went back to school and got my masters degree in counseling after grandchild #1 was born. That 1st grandchild will turn 15 next week and I'm just now realizing my daughter has BPD. I've been so 'used to' (but not really) her behavior that I just thought 'that's how she is'.  Providence must have somehow led me to realize this... . I think I was reading something on Psychology Today website about the common feelings of someone in a a relationship w/ a BPD... . and I think I stopped breathing! Talk about a light bulb coming on!

The most recent disturbance had to do with her deciding to go back to school and to get a nursing degree. Mind you, she is divorced and he is not in the picture, so she parents the 5 kids alone, she works full time, and there are no other significant support resources in her life except my husband and myself.  naturally I would totally support anyone furthering their education.  but she makes decisions with total disregard for what it will mean in situations like: who's going to babysit? who's going to make dinner? help with homework? pick up the kids? go to their school activities? etc etc etc. 

Let me just say I have realized over the years she totally lacks the ability to nurture. IF she makes dinner for the kids... . it's usually around 830 or 9pm.  sometimes they fall asleep before dinner is ever ready. she doesn't concern herself with things like making sure they're clean or have clean clothes or have clean bedclothes. The house is usually a real mess... . and I grew up in a family of six and my mom worked, but our home never looked like this.  everything about her and her life is CHAOS.  Of course I get that she is in a very VERY challenging situation... . but she got herself into it... . and yet she blows off the responsibility.

the oldest granddaughter has been parentified for years now... . AND it is quite obvious that she feels responsible for 'taking care of' mother's (my daughter) emotions. She tries to be the peacekeeper, but you can see the stress it has been causing this poor child for years.  the next grandchild is a 12 y/o girl, then there are 9 y/o twin boys and then another 8 y/o boy.  My heart breaks for all of them daily.

So she made this decision to do a nursing school that is partly online and partly actually going to class.  And she enrolls and starts going to class. Then I get a lengthy email from her telling me the school costs $29K for the year and she can only get $20K in financial aid, so would I please consider cosigning a $9K Sallie Mae loan for her? well, my husband and I have long had a policy of no cosigning for anyone... . but not to mention that she is terrible with money, impulsive of course, has a terrible credit score, history of not repaying debt, history of asking us for money... . so naturally my answer was NO, we can not cosign for you. 

you know what hit the fan! suddenly I'm getting all these totally irrational emails about how I don't support her and trying to guilt trip me about 'caring enough to invest' in my CHILD's future (which I'm thinking... . hmmm... . I don't have a CHILD... . you're 33 yrs old!). All kinds of ridiculous and mean things she said... . and I am THE ONE person in her life who HAS supported her and helped her and taken dinners over and babysit the kids and YES, apparently have enabled her I now see... . but I have most definitely been more supportive in the true sense of the word than anybody else in her life even cares to be.  FIVE kids.  I guarantee you she does not have people lined up offering to babysit for her. 

Without going into a lot of unnecessary detail about exactly what kinds of things she said in this string of emails let me just say it hit me like such a hard slap in the face that I believe it caused my eyes to finally open. 

I need help!  I need support!  So many times I have literally just wanted to move far far away to get away from her... . but I feel stuck because of the grandkids.  My husband and I are just about the only examples of stability and of non-chaos in their lives (maybe with the exception of whatever examples they get at school). But in their personal lives... . it's us and that's it. 

I am hurting and I have been for soo loong. and I am angry and I am resentful.  and I know I need to work on MYSELF and however it is that I make things worse in this whole picture... . and trust me... . I am WILLING as can be to do that work.  Because I can.  and I am soo torn always between my love and compassion for my daughter and the intense pain and resentment.

DEEP gratitude to any of you who take the time to read and respond!     

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[hermama]

I also want to add that when she was still living at home (before she graduated HS) I tried hard to encourage her to go to college while still living with us (before she had any children). Her answer... . no way. all she wanted to do was get her own apartment so she could 'do whatever' she wanted to do. I tried to encourage her to stay with us and go to college and save money instead of trying to pay for her own apartment.  no.

instead she became pregnant, lived with various friends, finally moved in to an apt with my granddaughter's father... . and the saga began... .

she did not want to go to college at the time when it would have been more appropriate for us to help her.  But now that she is 33 with 5 kids of her own, she seems to want to reclaim that opportunity and guilt me for it.

of course I realize her thinking is not 'logical'... . but i just wanted to add this bit to the story.

[hopeangel]

Hello hermama! 

It is good to see you posting here for much-needed support! 

I know how absolutely devastating it feels to be the main support, if not only support who knocks yourself out to help and pay for and listen to and when they say jump you say 'how high?' and then, guess what - they HATE you again!

Yes oh yes I understand that, been in tears more times than I can count and lay awake ruminating and then trying to help again the following day! Aaaaagh!  It's not fun! 

However I am going through a process of acceptance and, although this is a tough and long process it is happening and one of the things I am doing is reclaiming my own life!  I am rebuilding my business and then I will pay off my debts accrued by myself and dh 'helping' my daughter (aged 22)

My daughter too refers to herself as my child 'how can you not look after your child properley?' etc when I deny her anything but, of course emotionally they are a child.

What has helped me get through this sort of thing is that (after much reading and learning of the lesson here and in books - Valerie Porr's 'overcoming BPD' is very helpful) I have come to the realisation that I cannot help dd if I am drowning in pain myself, dd WILL project her pain onto me and therfore I MUST heal myself first and THEN see how I can support her and help her heal - think oxygen in an aroplane - you can't save your child if you are unconscious yourself can you?

I think some skills are imperative to healing the relationship (somewhat) whilst being able to get yourself heard - validation is a communication tool whereby you learn to speak to your BPD in a language they can understand thus getting yourself heard and allowing them to feel heard by you!  This is very healing and empowering and has good results (sometimes) I strongly recommend learning how to do this well - it is the key to getting through to a person with BPD! Empathy is imperative to not throttling the person with BPD (joking  ) but if you can empathise with their pain when they are projecting it onto you it hurts a litttle less, they are very desperate people with a painful mental illness which makes them act in ways we cannot understand but we can register their pain and it helps us and them to do this.

You are just beginning your journey of acceptance and I know there will be painful times to come but now you know what you are dealing with some healing can occur. You are doing all the right things - getting print-outs and learning the lessons here, I did these too and my realtionship with my dd has improved so much (slowly and erratically!).

It's not easy but we are all in this together, we are here to help! 

[hermama]

Thank you hopeangel.  Yes, I know I need to go through my own process of acceptance... . and I don't even know if I've actually begun the true grieving yet... . because its just struck me that I will most likely NEVER have the kind of relationship I've dreamed of with my daughter. The biggest challenge of all... . to love someone who treats you like you're the scum of the earth. and I just want to lash out (not really... . I just vent to my husband or sister quite loudly!) or at the very least totally withdraw.  I do need to reclaim my own life... . and I honestly don't even know where to begin.  she has taken up so much room in my head for so long... . that I just realized yesterday (after reading one of the articles on here) that I have really not been living my own life. I mean, a part of me knew that, but another part of me right now actually FEARS that I don't know what I will do with the 80% of my head space I need to reclaim.  Honestly.  I feel fear of my own sense of emptiness. 

I think I have been having heart palpitations for the past 5 days straight because every time I turn around she's sending me another text or email ASKING OR EXPECTING SOME FAVOR! while at the same time apparently oblivious to the fact that she's treating me like a dog... . like I OWE her something... . like these things are actually MY responsibility.  Even since her anger over the no co-signing thing, she asked me if I would go to her 12 y/o daughter's school concert in her place (she didn't feel like going); she asked if I would agree to take the 15 y/o to a series of physical therapy appointments; and EXPECTS me to take the 12 y/o to her Awards night at school tomorrow night (because she's going to her own class and 'can't' make it).  Then I JUST received an email from her about 20 mins ago that goes to great length to describe the pickle she's in because the kids are getting ready to be on summer break... . and she doesn't know what she's going to do... . because she'll be at work... . and can I watch them at least 2 days a week or help pay for their summer care? It amazes me... . the audacity of anyone to speak to another person the way she does as if I am not supposed to have my own life... . as if I don't know what step to take next unless I get instructions from her... . and all the while be treated so venomously?   

I will be doing my best to learn how to validate her feelings... . I do want healing... . and another part of me rises up at the same time full of resentment... . thinking: so I'm STILL spending time on her! even while I do this work.  but I do recognize that it is also (and truly) for my own growth and healing... .

It feels like I am in a position where I am being asked to do a lot of hard work in order to be able to have a relationship with my abuser.  It feels so twisted.  And she will never ever ever (most likely) NEVER comprehend what I do for her sake... . for the sake of love.  What we do for the sake of our loved ones when our emotions are all standing in opposition to them... .

its certainly not for wimps, huh?   

thank you again hopeangel. I am beginning my work.  and I truly hope for some positive shifts over time... .

[hermama]

dear hopeangel,

you said,

pay off my debts accrued by myself and dh 'helping' my daughter

what does dh mean? 

thanks!

[hermama]

also want to add that my d33 is morbidly obese, as she is a compulsive overeater, and on track to have bariatric surgery sometime towards the end of this summer.  I am also very afraid that she will not be able to exercise the discipline required to be successful after surgery.

[hopeangel]

Oh hermama I really have been in your place emotionally and I feel for you  so much! 

It IS just what you said - a whole lot of work to help your own  abuser however if you don't do that work you will remain in the position you are in, it is to save YOURSELF first honestly - and THEN her!

You cannot go on with all this pain in your heart so the steps you are taking will set you free from this feeling of impotency and 'being controlled' that the are so great at instilling into us along with a deep sense of shame and guilt which little by little I am learning to shake as these things are all projected onto us and yet they belong to THEM not us, it is their inate sense of shame and inadequacy that is at the root of all this abuse, they can't bear the shame and pain they feel so they 'make us feel it for them' in so many ways which you are so familiar, they do believe at the time that we are the source of their pain!

This is why instead of 'enabling' ie helping then do the things they can learn to sort out for themselves, learn these skills to free yourself from the FOG - FEAR, OBLIGATION and GUILT you are currently stumbling around in.  You have to get out of the fog in order to heal yourself.  Your daughter's pain is hers and no matter how much you do she is empty within and nothing can ever fill the void, you will end up bankrupt and empty yourself if you try.

My heart breaks too when I see other daughter's with their mums our shopping and helping each other, but i can get a little of that now and I used to have NOTHING but abuse!

My comment about the debts we ran up was a reference to the years myself and my husband used to get things for my dd, no matter how out of reach financially they were because she said she 'needed' them.  I felt sorry for her illness but as you say all I got was terrible abuse in return - they actually resent the help deep down because it stunts their ability to learn to take responsibility for themselves so it actually causes more anger within them although they don't realise this I don't think!

Now I know it is not helping her so I am only providing some things that I CAN afford and I do AGREE to help with as opposed to feeling under pressure to, I am paying for her internet and her gym membership (excercise helps her), plus I will put a small amount towards food if she has genuinely struggled that week (she is on benefits!) but I will not buy fancy clothes, pay for brand new furniture or hair extensions or days out involving huge sums of money or large treats that she feels she 'needs'.  I gradually stopped this as our debts got worse (she also did not like me working and said I put work first so I cut down and near went broke! AAAAAAAGH!) I am now working full time again and turning my financial world around again! (I hope!) and dd is improving her attitude towards me and gaining a sense of responsibility (erratically!)

I honestly believe if I hadn't dedicated a good year to learning and committing to getting these tools and skills we would be in the same old abusive situation in which I used to feel trapped, like you do!

I DO still get abused and get my heart broken at times but then I have some time where we get on and dd respects me at times, I am hoping these good times will one day all join up to make a recovery, if you see what I mean, that day is a long time coming, if at all, but it is my dream and I am doing my very best to bring it about, if not then at least we have our ups as well as our downs.

I strongly recommend Valerie Porr's book as it explains the genetic difference in brain neurology in a person with BPD and explains why they abuse and the pain that they suffer to make them lash out and also how to help them to stop the behaviours.

As for the 'entitlement' thing - they DO feel entitled but it is because they feel like a victim because of their emotional pain and emptiness which they will always seek to attach onto something their loved ones have or havn't done but that pain is in fact part and parcel of their condition.  they feel entitled because of what they go through but we do them no favours at all to encourage that entitlement. 

They do lack empathy but then sometimes they have too much of it! Everything is erratic and based around skewed perceptions and in the case of my own dd sometimes delusional thinking!

There is so much to learn but you will be able to do it because, if you can just get past the abuse and remember it stems from their pain, (they will crash through anyone because of their inner pain), then you can save yourself first and then be in a place to help your dd to find ways of coping and healing to some extent!

If you are both down a black hole since your daughter pulled you in  then you are both stuck, if you (as the nonBPD) do the work to climb out, you can then extend a hand to your dd who is trapped down there until someone understands her.

As for the weight issues I would think any addiction is likely because of the underlying BPD, if that can be addressed I should think it would be easier for her to manage her food addiction.

I've wrote a long post because your situation resonates with my own emotions so much and I bet so many other here have been through all those emotions.  We have more power here than we think, it just takes time to reclaim it. 

[hopeangel]

Sorry hermama, you asked me what dh means and I misunderstood, it means 'dear husband', we use a lot of abbeviations, there is a glossary of abbreviated terms somewhere on the board, so sorry, sometimes you slip into using abbreviations even when someone is new just through force of habit!  I do apologise!   

[hermama]

Hello hopeangel. Right now I am having my coffee and getting ready to leave for work, but I signed on to see if anyone had responded since I am feeling so desperate for support right now.  Thank you so much for all of your encouragement, I want you to know I am feeling some empowerment and some hope and a very small slice of understanding of her behavior for the first time... . ever... . realistically.  I did order Valerie Porr's book... . I ordered the Kindle edition so I have it now available for reading.  Because I have a full workload today and then a gd award's night tonight, I will not get a chance to start reading until tomorrow, but I will definitely be devouring it, I can assure you.  I also wanted to let you know that she is going to counseling because of her feelings of depression and to prepare for bariatric surgery... . and I am paying for that.  That is something I do agree to pay for gladly as I know she cannot afford it, and I definitely support the counseling. Although I am pretty certain the counselor is not aware of her BPD... .

thank you again so much   

will talk more later!

[jellibeans]

Hermama

I wanted to just say hello... . I am glad you found the parent board and feel like you have already gained some understanding of this disorder. Have a great day at work. Valerie Porr's book is one of my favorites and I am hoping you find help from it. Have a great day at work.

[lever.]

Hello hermama.

I read your post but have just found time to reply because, guess what I have been looking after 3 granchiildren (no 4 is on the way)'

My DD is bright but before she had the children started a number of different degree courses and dropped out.

I really identify with your situation.

I almost got barred from contact with my GC and was very concerned about them. I too get accused of treating my 33 year-old "child" badly.

I have however found that my communication with my DD has improved a lot since I started practising the tools I have learned on here. I am becoming less afraid of her rages and I am managing to set a few limits whilst still validating her feelings.

It is very difficult when grandchildren are involved.

My DD has also treated other family members badly and whilst I am working on our relationship I am afraid of alienating them.

I think a good place to start would be to look at the workshop on validation and the tools for communicating and setting limits --->


I think my DD has sensed a slight change in me and very recently she is pushing less hard at the boundaries. by the way.

I hope you find this board as helpful as I have done

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[kelc323]

I wanted to say "hello" too, hermama. I have recently started posting on these boards, too and am finding it very helpful... . the tools, the support and the empathy I receive is beginning to lay a stronger foundation underneath my spirit.

I can relate to so much of your situation, especially regarding your grandchildren, the constant requests, the perspective that she's a "child" and how when one hand is out, the other is slapping you upside your head (emotionally). This site has been a godsend in helping me sort through my situation and an excellent resource. I hope you find it helpful in your journey too. The good news is that you are not alone and can share the burden. 

If you are both down a black hole since your daughter pulled you in  then you are both stuck, if you (as the nonBPD) do the work to climb out, you can then extend a hand to your dd who is trapped down there until someone understands her.

HopeAngel, I love your quote. It really helps me understand how important it is to get healthy and not be totally consumed by my daughter's illness. I've spent so much time trying to save her from herself that I've short-changed myself and my other two nonBPD children. My DS28 and DS17 are both great kids and fortunately, we talk and share a lot about how they feel about their sister. Unfortunately, they are starting to cutoff from her. I have tried to keep this from happening, by explaining her illness to them. They are both so over it. I'm hopeful if I change my role with my BPDd27, the family will heal somewhat. The other examples and suggestions you provided are very helpful to me, as well. Only a parent who has walked this road can understand the pain and heartache that occurs when trying to integrate our very sick children's behaviors into our day-to-day lives.

I wish you the very best, hermama, and glad you're here to share your story. You came to the right place.

[hermama]

Hello everyone.  I want to say thanks to all of you for taking time to respond. It touches me deeply as it has been a long time since I've felt validated in this situation. Your responses and helpful words mean so much to me. it feels really good to have your support and knowing that you truly do understand what this is like. 

I am learning so much so fast that I feel like my head is spinning -- and every encounter I have with my daughter recently just reconfirms again and again that she is indeed BPD. 

The past week has been pretty up and down, but last night really took the cake so to speak.  She has not behaved this way (openly to me) since she was a teenager, and i guess it's because now I am maintaining my stance... . she is probably having the fears of abandonment being triggered... . so it was pretty ugly.

I had gone to her place to watch the grandkids while she went to an appointment.  When she got home, I was getting ready to leave and she said she wanted to talk to me on the porch before I left. I said okay (fearing what was coming next).  so we stepped outside and she said she wanted to tell me she wasn't mad at me.  I said Okay... .   This all had to do with the email exchanges when I said we would not co-sign for the $9K loan. She had treated me like crap after I said no, and then did the silent treatment thing for a few days... . then came back around acting like nothing had ever happened, like she hadn't hurt me or done anything wrong and everything should be fine between us.  But this whole thing was such a slap in the face to me that it woke me up to what is really going on with her, so I have tried to maintain a healthier distance.

So she went on to say that she just wanted me to know she wasn't mad at me, but she felt I was acting differently toward her (true).  I told her I was really hurt by her lashing out at me the way she did.  Of course this was offensive to her and she began to tell me how I misunderstood everything and I had taken it all wrong and I was hurt for no good reason because she hadn't done anything except try to explain her frustration to me.  I told her she wasn't the only person with feelings, I have feelings too, and I thought I deserved an apology. she said I DID apologize.  I said, no, you said you weren't mad at me.  there's a difference.  At that she realized what I was saying was accurate and apparently it pissed her off more than she could tolerate and she yelled out some rant and turned and fled inside the house slamming the door as hard as she could behind her. 

I was standing on her porch not knowing what to do.  I wanted to just go get in my car and leave.  But I also felt so bad for the grandkids and what they would surely experience the rest of the night as a result of her emotional state.  I was really torn because I did not want to reinforce her behavior.  But its always my concern for the grandkids that snags me.  So I went inside and went upstairs and there she was, my 33 y/o daughter, on the floor in the bathroom pouting and crying.  I tried to talk to her in a way just enough to de-escalate her so that the grandkids would not suffer the backlash.  In time she did appear to de-escalate, but it was also pretty clear that I still wasn't saying what she really wanted to hear. 

I talked to my counselor today and he says I should have just turned around and left, because all I did was reinforce the attention seeking/temper tantrum behavior.  and I think he's right. I asked what about the kids? and he said I could have just stuck my head back in the door, told them goodbye, and told them to call me if they needed me. 

Today is my birthday.  she has not told me happy birthday all day.  different from most years.  My husband invited her and the grandkids over for cake and ice cream tonight.  I am dreading it.  Sometimes I like to go line-dancing at a little club nearby, so I told my husband I want to go tonight after cake and ice cream.  Truly the main reason is that I don't want her hanging around for very long, so I decided we'd have somewhere to go. 

Hopeangel and jellibeans, I have started reading Valerie Porr's book... . I've just been short on time to devote to reading, but I guarantee you I will read it and study it! I am also reading articles here on the site.  it is all so helpful, but I'm afraid I don't know how to put it all into practice yet. I'm flying by the seat of my pants and not doing a very good job probably.  But me seeing my daughter in this light is a very different place for me to be. Painful.  Enlightening.  Strong feelings of loss.  Lots of sadness.  Lots and lots of sadness.   :'(

Thank you, lever, for sharing also.  You know how painful it is with innocent grandchildren involved.  They need someone to give them some stability.  It really hurts.  My daughter obviously has sensed a slight change in me too, but she seems to be pushing harder! clearly it is causing her to lose her sense of how things are supposed to go.  thank you for your welcome!

thank you too kelc323! yes, I so agree with you that the tools, and support and empathy gives me something to hold me up that I have needed for so long.  I feel so blessed to have found this site! amazing, the timing.

I don't quite know how to do the "quote" thing yet, but your comment about "when one hand is out, the other is slapping you upside your head" really hit home! that's exactly what it feels like.  thank you too, so much, for your warm welcome. I wish we could all sit in one another's company in person, but at least we have this tool that allows us to connect across many miles. 

I have so much more I would like to say, but she and the grandkids will be here shortly for cake... . so I need to say goodbye for now.  Thanks again for all the support and I do want to be here for each of you as well.

 

[jellibeans]

Dear Hermama... . HAPPY BIRTHDAY

I hope you have a good one... . I know how you feel. I felt the same when I found this site and it was first suggested that my dd16 was emerging BPD... . I couldn't read enough and I was unsure I would be able to learn the tools necessary to communicate with my dd. Don't be hard on yourself... . it takes time and the fact your are here means you are willing try and that is the first step... . hope your night out goes well!

[hermama]

thank you jellibeans! I did have a nice time when my husband and I went out after the kids left.  it wasn't too bad when they were here either. My daughter was rather distant, but the truth is, it's not that unusual. she did hug me twice... . which is very different for her.  it almost seemed painful for her... . but she is the one who initiated!

I enjoyed seeing the grandkids... . even though they were dirty and smelly (they probably haven't showered all week... . or longer... . and I'm not exaggerating).  with the exception of the oldest, who is nearly 15.  she takes showers and takes care of herself without prompting.

then my husband and I went to this "saloon and dancehall" where they do country line dancing.  One of my dance buddies was there, and we had fun. They even talked me into riding the mechanical bull (are you familiar with those?)! which i had never done before... . and I lasted 3 minutes before I was finally thrown off!  the guy running the thing said I stayed on longer than anybody else that night! Nobody else even lasted 30 seconds!  I told him I'm a tough cookie! 

I'm looking forward to a nice weekend because my sister, who lives in a different state, is coming over for a visit and she will be here tonight through Sunday evening.  we are very close... . have a thoroughly wonderful and enjoyable relationship... . she is a recovered alcoholic, 12 years sober, and has gone back to school and become a substance abuse counselor.  So I know I will have a nice weekend!

I hope you do as well!  thanks again! 

[jellibeans]

Glad you had a fun night out... . what a good choice for you to make... . and yes I live in texas and I am very familar with the mechnical bull and line dancing.

Two hugs in one night... . woo hoo... .

[lever.]

Hello again hermama.

I hope you had a good birthday despite the difficulty with your daughter.

One other thing I learned here which may help is that if a person with BPD makes accusations avoid JADEing ie Justifying Arguing Defending or Explaining, when they are in emotional mind they can't take it in.

It is generally more productive just to validate their feelings, This doesn't mean that you agree with their perspective just that you show you have heard how they feel.

There is a link to this(I think on the board for partners who are staying in a relationship).

When I was recently in conflict with my DD I was very tempted to JADE but remembering what I had read here reigned me in and helped avoid a row.

There is an awful lot to learn and sometimes I feel my head is spinning. also I sometimes find it a lot easier on e-mail than face to face as I have time to think

[kelc323]

Happy belated birthday, hermama! I can't think of a better way to celebrate than with dancing!  As for the record bull-riding, I'm not surprised. You are a strong woman who doesn't give up easily. I often think of what a friend of mine told me when I was whining about my daughter and all the problems we were having when she was a teenager. She said, "God, trusted you to be strong enough to take care of her." Yup. Good point. You're a tough cookie... . until the next bull ride. 

BTW, don't dismiss your daughter's hugs too much. I find that's more about their shame and vulnerability than how they're feeling about me. If she didn't want to hug you, she wouldn't have. The fact she initiated is a gift.

[hermama]

Thanks lever. I looked around and found some discussion on the site about JADEing... . do you know if there is a specific article or link that talks about it in depth? thanks! I definitely see that you are correct that none of those kinds of responses are helpful.

and kelc323, thanks for this insight!

BTW, don't dismiss your daughter's hugs too much. I find that's more about their shame and vulnerability than how they're feeling about me. If she didn't want to hug you, she wouldn't have. The fact she initiated is a gift.

I'll keep it in mind.