Coming here based on recommendations from the newcomer's board

[Nugget]

I started on the newcomer's board and was directed here by 3 lovely people.  Here is my original post:

Hi BPD Family!  I am relieved to find this community and am hoping you can give me some insights.  Just this past week I came out of denial and came to believe that my 49 yo daughter has a mental illness.  I always thought that she was just a difficult person. I think it may be BPD.  I want to share with you a list of behaviors.  Making this list & and reminding myself with it has actually helped me come out of denial & not go back into it.  I'm asking for your feedback as to whether you think it's BPD.  Also to tell you of her current situation and ask for some feedback on a decision I need to make soon.

Also want to tell you of some complicating issues:

She is disabled due to an injury as a child and subsequent major spine surgery.  She did fine physically until 14 years ago when she developed severe arthritis & other back issues.  She is able to walk and do most things for herself, but lives with chronic pain, has a pain pump embedded in her abdomen and has to take a lot of pain meds.  Some people think that her behaviors are because of the meds but these behaviors were there long before the pain meds.

I believe she is a dry drunk - she drank a lot until that became prohibitive due to pain meds.  Our family is rampant with alcoholism and I'm a recent member of Al Anon working on my own recovery from the effects of the disease.

Behaviors:

She has alienated everyone - she has no friends and all family members are avoiding her - I'm the only one still communicating with her

- blames everyone else for everything - doesn't take responsibility for her own actions/behaviors - doesn't seem able to self reflect on her part in any relationship or other problems.  No one wants to be around her.  Others feel drained after being with her.

- Has a strong sense of entitlement - thinks others should take care of her and give her money

- Spends money like it's water & can't seem to manage her money to take care of herself

- Nothing anyone does for her is never enough

- Manipulates

- Has threatened suicide on numerous occasions and says she has actually tried a few times

- Tries to control others - latches onto people in a helping/rescuing mode - is extremely accomodating and nice to that person for awhile, then starts trying to control everything about them i.e. how they do things, their money

- Talks way too much - it's like she's trying to control by talking

- Episodes of rage where she lashes out at others - physical on a couple of occasions - once hitting a young woman with a towel, once slapping me across the face

- Lies and seems to believe her lies

-Projects her behaviors on others - accuses others of the very behavior she is exhibiting

-Creates crises after crises

-Doesn't think anyone loves her (especially the family) but I often wonder if it's the other way around - that she's not capable of loving

- Black and white thinking - others are all good or all bad

- mood swings - complete euphoria or utter depression

- Believes she can hear other people's thoughts and that she can predict the future.

Her current situation:

Three weeks ago my Grandson and his girlfriend (who rescued her a year ago and moved her into their house) got a restraining order over my daughter and had her removed from the premises - as that was the only way they could get her to leave & they had been trying for a long time.  She & her 2 cats landed here where I live with my youngest daughter and 6 yo granddaughter.  We let her stay for 10 days - gave her 7 days notice of what the end date was so she could have time to find a place to live.  During that time, she spent little time looking for a place to live.  One day before the end date, she received a pain injection. On the day that she left, she felt awful (this is often the case for a couple of days after the injection) so I got her a motel room for 3 nights.  She is still living in that motel & has been paying for it with her limited SSI.  She's going to run out of money any day now & be homeless.

She is more worried about her stuff (furnishings, etc. that are still at the house she left) - she's paranoid about it actually and that seems to be a higher priority to her than a roof over her head.  I made a commitment to pay for the move of her stuff to her new home - this is going to be very expensive as she has a lot of stuff and there's quite a distance involved.  She is now wanting to move her stuff into a storage unit to keep it safe.  That seems crazy to me because storage will cost money she can't afford and she likely will end up losing it anyway & even if she didn't lose it, she would have no way to move it again once she gets a place to live.  I told her on Friday that I would have to think about whether I'm willing to do that.  In the meantime I've found out that she has until 6/15 to move her stuff. 

So, here's my current conundrum - The only thing I have any control over is the move because I'm paying for it.  If I only look at this decision (of whether to do what she wants - move her stuff into a storage unit now -  or hold off hoping she will find a place to live in the next two weeks) from an Al Anon perspective, I would let go of trying to control her choice,  let her make her own choice, and live with the consequences (as hard as that would be to do, I would because we have all enabled and rescued her so many times and I now see that was harmful to us and to her).  I can now see how I've enabled and helped her at times in order to make myself feel better.  I feel ashamed of that.  And, no longer want to do that.  I only want to do what is best for her.

Then enters the mental health issue - I ask myself "Is she capable of making a wise choice for herself?"  Maybe I should control this choice. 

I am so confused and in so much pain over trying to make this decision, among all the other things.  Any kind of insights, etc. will be greatly appreciated.

Sorry this was such a long post and thank you for being there.

S

Update - I am meeting with my daughter at 9 a.m. PST to discuss the move.  I have read about some of communication tools and will endeavor to do my best to apply them. 

S

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Nugget]

I want to add to my first post by answering some questions that were posed to me on the Newbie Board.  I'm not sure if I'm doing this right as this whole "board" thing is new to me but I'll do my best

hopeangel asked "Is there any chance she would admit to the pain she must feel and see the doctor to seek out an assessment of her mental health, do you think she could be open to this?"

And, jellibeans said "I would think that helping your ddd get help would be a good place to start".

At this point, I don't think she would be open to even such a suggestion.  This may change and I pray for that.  Right now, I think bringing that up might be more damaging than helpful.  She tends to think she is the expert on everything and in fact has diagnosed others in our family as having various mental illnesses.  And, I am in the beginning phase of acceptance and doing everything I can to learn how best to handle the situation.  At this point, I have no idea how to raise this with her and need to learn how best to do that.  My guess is that she would explode with rage.   Last Friday my 28 yo granddaughter (my dd's daughter) and I went to a psychiatric facility and was able to get some information - a place to start, at least.

By the way, jellibeans, I love the quote you shared "It is not within my power to orchestrate the outcome... . I can only try to create opportunities."  I will be posting that where I can see it often - a great perspective!

And, peaceplease, I want to thank you for another idea.  You asked "What about selling her things, and finding a furnished apartment?"  That had not occurred to me.  She seems to see 'her things' as a certain security blanket so don't know if she would be at all open to that but it's certainly something to keep in mind.

Thank you all for your support!

S

[jellibeans]

Nugget

I am glad you see here here on the parent board. I hope you get some more feedback from the members here. Do you think you are open to seeing a T to help yourself... . then at some point inviting your dd to join you? This is kind of a backdoor way to get her help but it would also be a way for you to care for yourself right now. Happy you are here

[Rapt Reader]

Hello, Nugget & I'd like to join jellibeans in welcoming you to this Board. I also think her idea of your finding a counselor for yourself would be very helpful. Lots of us here have gone to Therapy, and find it useful... .

I'm sorry for all the complications you are dealing with regarding your daughter; my own adult (37) son was diagnosed with BPD a year ago, and I can tell you that once he finally admitted he had problems and was willing to get help for them, he has really gotten a lot better. Physically and mentally, he is the healthiest he has been in years, and he is also happier than ever before. He is still struggling with Social Anxiety, and isn't working (except for his artwork and writing) right now, so his mobility and ability to live a "normal life" are limited. But, we are taking it one day at a time, and I have found that thinking of it that way has been very helpful to our whole family... .

[Nugget]

Dear jellibeans, Rapt Reader & hopeangel,

I want to report that my daughter & I had the best conversation yesterday that perhaps we've ever had.  I took your suggestion to read about validation and realized that I had been acting invalidating toward her on many occasions because I could hardly stand to listen to her ranting and raving, repeating herself, blaming others, manipulating, etc.  In fact, the whole family acts invalidating towards her probably for the same reasons.  Sad, eh?  With my new understanding, I feel sad for our behavior and sad for the pain that it must have caused her.  Seeing her with new eyes now that I'm accepting that she does have a mental illness has helped me move from anger and frustration to compassion.  I am so grateful for that.

I now feel like the time will come when it's possible to speak with her about getting help.  I want to be up to speed on how best to do that before I jump in and will be working on learning that.

You asked me about getting a therapist for myself.  I grew up in an alcoholic, highly dysfunctional family and have been pursuing my own healing for close to 30 years.  I have seen several counselors and been helped greatly.  Through this journey, I earned 2 Master's Degrees in the Behavioral Sciences and before retiring, was a mental health counselor.  I've been embarrassed to admit this  because thoughts come in to my head that I should have known my daughter had a mental illness, after all I'm trained for recognizing that.  I've had thoughts a few times over the years that she might, but then things would get better for awhile, and I would forget about it.  Even now, after yesterday's wonderful conversation, I feel myself wanting to go back into denial as she behaved in such a sane way - but, I won't do that this time.  I think we've both hit bottom.

I can honestly say, in my years as a practicing counselor, I never had a client who was anything like my daughter.  It's possible that I've never actually known a person with BPD although now I'm remembering behaviors of my mother, who my daughter reminds me of in some ways, and it's possible that she may have had a mental illness along with her alcoholism. And, I'm realizing that BPD was barely mentioned in my training - rather it was denigrated and instructors (who were highly regarded therapists) said that no counselors wanted to work with that DX, that it was crazy making and people with that DX were almost impossible to help.  They even made jokes about it.  When I think about that now, I feel angry at those instructors.

Also, it turns out that my Al Anon sponsor is a mental health counselor.  How blessed am I?  I have a support person who understands mental illness and alcoholism!  I will be seeing her today for the first time since I've come out of denial - am looking forward to it!  I don't remember any of the counselors I saw in the past talking much about alcoholism and never was I referred to Al Anon.  And, Al Anon has been the best thing I've ever done toward healing myself. 

I've been a member of Al Anon for 10 months.  Through Al Anon, I am learning so much about my own dysfunctional behaviors i.e. controlling, obsessing, caretaking, rescuing etc.  and working to change them.  While continuing that part of my journey, I am now embarking on how best to help my mentally ill daughter and our family.  I am so grateful for this support community.  Thank you for being there!  And my prayers and empathy go out to you all in the painful situations you live with in loving a person with a mental illness.

Blessings,

S

[jellibeans]

nugget... . it is so good to read your post today. Personally I know how it feels when you are able to make that connection with your child and have those rare conversations. I find as time goes on these kind of conversations are more common and they make me really happy that we have both come so far. I think it is something we need to work on daily and I am glad you are seeing change already.

When times are tough I think about how long of a life my dd has and I realize this will be such a small part of it... . she has many days ahead of her to be happy.

Another quote I love... .

A bad day does not equal a bad life.

[Rapt Reader]

What great news, Nugget! Everything in your post has hope and enlightenment in it, and I'm happy for you    I have a few links for you, for when you have the time to check them out, based on what you've posted above:

Validation and BPD

Understanding and Treating BPD

Article 6: Helping a Loved-One with Borderline Personality Disorder Seek Treatment

Article 7: Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder

I think you are on your way to a wonderful understanding and learning experience, and you, your daughter and your whole family will be the better for it. Please keep us in the loop; we're here to help and be your cheerleader in the process