Projection? Or am I not being fair?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm away visiting family abroad and have been having a difficult time with my pwBPD, you may have read one of my posts about this already.

Things have been very up and down and I have been trying to state and enforce my boundaries when his raging and blaming starts.  There have been some good days. 

Today is a bad day however.  I was dubious about skyping him from the texts I had received, he said he wasn't feeling good and 'we need to talk about us'. When we skyped he immediately flew into blame mode telling me how I'd treated him badly for so long, how I had issues and should be going to aa (he's in recovery, he thinks because sometimes I used to drink with him when we were socialising that I have a problem, even though I rarely drank/drink), that I'm a drug addict (I used to smoke weed but haven't for a long time and it isn't causing me any problems now, he on the other hand smokes every day and it's another crutch for him like the drink was and also as some meds are), and talking about me sleeping around (he doesn't like it that I had more bf'a than he had gf's before we met over ten years ago). 

I tried some validation, but he was just talking over me.  When I stated my boundary again about this kind of conversation he threatened to call my parent and tell them what I'm 'really like'. I ended up hanging up on him.

Then I sent a text to try the validation again and just to state why I hung up:

Me -I understand it's difficult for you while I'm away and you feel abandoned. Having conversations like that where you blame me for everything won't help though, we can talk more about things when I'm home.  Have a good meeting. Love you xxx

Him- you are a control freak, you manipulate me to cover your lies who the hell do you think you are to hang up and expect me to keep quiet, I am not lying anymore, if you really cared you would want this to work, have you not learnt from x (prev bf a long time ago) you are not doing it to me... . not Littleleft fault, wake up or you are going to lose me and I can't see all your family being too impressed let alone judging me


Do you think I'm being fair and trying to deal with things the right way?  He makes me feel like I'm wrong all the time, so trying to do the validation and set boundaries is really difficult.

Do you think it's projection in his text back to me?

Im finding it do hard to know if I'm doing the right thing or making things worse.

[Littleleft]

I'm away visiting family abroad and have been having a difficult time with my pwBPD, you may have read one of my posts about this already.

Things have been very up and down and I have been trying to state and enforce my boundaries when his raging and blaming starts.  There have been some good days. 

Today is a bad day however.  I was dubious about skyping him from the texts I had received, he said he wasn't feeling good and 'we need to talk about us'. When we skyped he immediately flew into blame mode telling me how I'd treated him badly for so long, how I had issues and should be going to aa (he's in recovery, he thinks because sometimes I used to drink with him when we were socialising that I have a problem, even though I rarely drank/drink), that I'm a drug addict (I used to smoke weed but haven't for a long time and it isn't causing me any problems now, he on the other hand smokes every day and it's another crutch for him like the drink was and also as some meds are), and talking about me sleeping around (he doesn't like it that I had more bf'a than he had gf's before we met over ten years ago). 

I tried some validation, but he was just talking over me.  When I stated my boundary again about this kind of conversation he threatened to call my parent and tell them what I'm 'really like'. I ended up hanging up on him.

Then I sent a text to try the validation again and just to state why I hung up:

Me -I understand it's difficult for you while I'm away and you feel abandoned. Having conversations like that where you blame me for everything won't help though, we can talk more about things when I'm home.  Have a good meeting. Love you xxx

Him- you are a control freak, you manipulate me to cover your lies who the hell do you think you are to hang up and expect me to keep quiet, I am not lying anymore, if you really cared you would want this to work, have you not learnt from x (prev bf a long time ago) you are not doing it to me... . not Littleleft fault, wake up or you are going to lose me and I can't see all your family being too impressed let alone judging me


Do you think I'm being fair and trying to deal with things the right way?  He makes me feel like I'm wrong all the time, so trying to do the validation and set boundaries is really difficult.

Do you think it's projection in his text back to me?

Im finding it do hard to know if I'm doing the right thing or making things worse.

[Littleleft]

Also, would it be a good idea to tell him that I've been reading about how to help our r/s and the setting of boundaries is part of this?  He hasn't been told he has BPD, his psychiatrist told him he is 'emotionally unstable by personality' so I can't say I've been reading about BPD, but I could maybe say I've been reading about emotional instability?

[OutOfEgypt]

Hi Littleleft,

What ultimately matters is what you think, feel, and perceive.  :)o you *really* think you are being unfair?  If not, then don't let them cast doubt on your feelings and thoughts and convictions.  That is typical BPD.  Very typical.  In fact, it is defining of BPD.  BPD's hate boundaries because it means they lose control.

But based on what I see... . that is a TOTAL TEMPER TANTRUM laden with projection in an attempt to throw you off, put you on the defensive, and manipulate you with guilt.  Ridiculous.

When we skyped he immediately flew into blame mode telling me how I'd treated him badly for so long... .

My ex would do that, too.  When I would go away on business trips, she would take that time to tell me how awful I am... . how happy she feels when I'm not there, how much less stressful things are, and what I baby I am for complaining about anything EVER.

He's just emotionally vomiting on you because he feels uneasy about you going away... . after all, you might actually ENJOY yourself and realize how nice it is to not have to deal with his crap.  Can't let that happen.

Did you see how trying to "validate" his feelings, in that situation, just gave him more room and ammunition to attack you?  It isn't mean or wrong to refuse to talk to someone when they are like that.  It is right and healthy, and necessary for survival.

[OutOfEgypt]

Also, would it be a good idea to tell him that I've been reading about how to help our r/s and the setting of boundaries is part of this

I wouldn't.  He'll use it against you somehow when the time is right.  Or it will fortify the belief that it is all your fault.  "Good... . you SHOULD be reading those things... . I've put up with enough of you being the way that you are."

Telling a BPD that you are going to set boundaries is like telling a hungry lion that you are going to bathe in Gazelle blood and come stand in their cage for a while.  Or... . I take that back.  They just won't get it, they will appear supportive at first, or they will make fun of you.  When they are raging and blaming, anything you share becomes fair game to throw against you.

Less talk, less explaining yourself.  He expects that you will always explain yourself.  He treats you like you need to.  But you don't.  In that vein, don't take the validation thing too far.  You need to reach a point where you realize that ANY response to his ridiculous blaming tirades and tantrums is only reinforcing his terrible behavior.  I would recommend a refusal to respond (which is a very healthy boundary).  It will piss him off more, for sure.  But the boundary is about you... . not controlling or stopping him.  You need to regain your sense of self, and you will NEVER get there if you are always trying to figure out how to "handle" his behavior or worry about if you did something wrong.

[Littleleft]

Thanks OutofEgypt.  Although his behaviour has been challenging for a very long time, BPD is very new to me, so it really helps to have input like yours.

Usually he will repeatedly text at this point and I do just ignore them now.  Luckily though he has an aa meeting this evening, so that's prevented him from getting into that usual habit.

Less talk, less explaining yourself.  He expects that you will always explain yourself.  He treats you like you need to.  But you don't.  In that vein, don't take the validation thing too far.

I'm finding it so hard to not try to explain, but I do realise that this has got me nowhere in the past.  It's difficult though when I can tell he's hurting and when I'm hurting too, both from what he says and how it's affecting me whilst I'm supposed to be having a nice time with my family.  I'm trying really hard not to let it affect me, and I suppose I'm doing a bit better at that than I normally would, but he really does know how to push my buttons!

[Littleleft]

Did you see how trying to "validate" his feelings, in that situation, just gave him more room and ammunition to attack you?  It isn't mean or wrong to refuse to talk to someone when they are like that.  It is right and healthy, and necessary for survival.

Thank you - I really needed to hear that!

[OutOfEgypt]

You're welcome.  I totally understand how hard this is.  When you are in a close relationship it's like we are "too close" to see things for how they are.  We need to take a big step back.

Do you have children?  If not, have you seen a mother who has a small child throwing a tantrum because he can't have a toy he wants?  Some mothers emotionally dive in and try to reason with and rationalize with the child, "See, if I buy you that now, then you'll expect something every time I take you to the store", as if that is going to mean anything to the child!  The child cries more and louder.  It feeds the tantrum.  Some mothers have this overblown protective instinct that cannot bear to hear their child be unhappy, irrationally fearing that if their child experiences any pain or unhappiness he will not be able to recover.  So, they explain with guilt how they can't buy them the toy, or they just go ahead and give it to him.  This, of course, just reinforces the behavior.  The child is planning on mommy feeling guilty by showing how "hurt" he is.  But then there are other mothers who realize that the child is trying to control and manipulate her and the situation by a dramatic display of emotions.  He may not be doing it consciously, but that's what he's doing.  He's displaying all of his sadness and displeasure for not being able to get things his way, and he's banking on mommy caving in as he pulls her guilt-strings.  She is aware of this, however, and knows that the best thing for her little boy is if she refuses to give in to his crap.  She knows that to any degree she "enters into" his little argument she is just reinforcing his behavior.  She doesn't let him pull her strings because she can see the truth beyond it.  He isn't dying.  He is throwing a tantrum.  He is hurt, but he's causing it himself and he will get over it in a short time and feel like little Johnny again.  So, instead, she says 'No' to her child once and places him in time-out.

Now, obviously he is not a little child and you are not his mother, but he's acting no differently.  It is no doubt that the feelings of being 'hurt' are real to him, just as real as to this tantrum-throwing little boy in my example.  But you need to step back and see the truth for what it is.  He is making himself upset because of his frantic desire to control.  He is putting his abnormal demands on YOU and demanding that you treat them as valid and normal.  My ex wife did the same thing... . in fact, she would say quite plainly that she expected it.  She even would pit her other lovers against me, telling me how much better they could "handle" her behavior and cruel words.  Lies!  If you were the mother in the situation above, would you seriously sit there and try to "validate" the child's feelings?  I wouldn't.  "Oh... . ok, little Johnny.  I understand how you feel.  I'm sorry you feel that way."  Meanwhile, he just wails louder and louder because he sees that he's got you hooked.

It's a game.  They don't see it that way, and they never will, but it is.  And that is why you need to be the one who will step out of the mess and into reality, into what is true... . they won't.

[Littleleft]

I don't have children (luckily), but totally understand everything you've said about a child's tantrum and can see how it's the same with my SO.

I absolutely do feel too close to see things for what they really are. And I'm a bit worried about how other people will view my behaviour, particularly his parents (and his sister and the rest of his family). I get on with them very well and they do know how he is, but I'm not sure that they will see why I'm hanging up or not having as much contact with him.  I think I'll direct them to this site so they can look at all the info for parents coping with a BPD child, then they can see why I'm doing what I'm doing and also learn about some useful things themselves too.

I'll have to remember to come back and read these posts from you when I'm struggling, to remind me of what the reality of the situation is. Thanks again!

[OutOfEgypt]

Glad its helped!  Yes, not easy for sure.  There is a lot of pressure to comply and conform.  Ultimately, you have to get to the place where you say, "I don't care... . my life, identity, and sanity depend on handling this the right way.  This is not others' life.  It is mine."

I know that some of my ex's friends don't even really think there is anything wrong with her other than that she is hyper-sexual (which they probably think is "cute" and that she is abrasive (which they interpret as "a strong woman", and sometimes that bugs me.  I'm sure she has painted me as a ass to them for ever wanting to do things like go after full custody of the kids or want her booted from my house, but they haven't had to live through it.  I know the truth, and I know how I feel.  They probably would have killed themselves if they had to live in it!