How can we help our kids make and keep friends?

[jellibeans]

My dd16 has had a falling out with one of her closest friends. Unfortunately my dd16 tends to make a new friend then within 6 or 7 months there is ahuge falling out and she starts all over trying to find a new friend. She doesn't have many friends and she has  a habit of going through friends  quickly her whole life. This recent friend was good for my dd and my dd showed a lot of improvement this year but now I know she will be sad over this loss. She is posting stuff on twitter about how happy she is and statements like that to hurt her friend. Just digging a deeper hole and I can see the pattern from the past.

How do we help out kids in times like this? Is there really anything I can do? She had plans to go to the beach with her friend for their birthday that are just a few days apart but I don't think that will happen. So sad.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

Hey, jellibeans 

I haven't parented a teenager (and never a girl!) in a very long time, so my thoughts might be off-target for you.

But, I'm wondering if there's a way to guide your daughter into a better understanding of how to keep friends (maybe this one right now?) and not lose them so often, by using S.E.T. to point out what you're seeing in her behaviors that have harmed her or her relationships?

When I'm starting a conversation that I hope will become a teaching moment with my BPD son, I use "I'm wondering", "What do you think about... .", "I've been thinking... ." statements to broach the subject I want to explore with him and then S.E.T. to finish it up. Most times he finishes the thoughts and is very open to figuring it all out with my guidance and doesn't even know I've been working on this in my mind for a very long time to make it happen 

[trytrytry]

jellibeans,

I'm sorry for the difficulties your DD is facing with regards to relationships/friendships.  For me, this is one of the most difficult issues to deal with.   My DD28 has burned through so many relationships and has felt so lonely and separated and hurt. Didn't seem to learn from her experiences cause it was always someones elses fault.   On the up side, she seems to be getting a bit better in this regards.  She has had her current bf for 2 years, and has maintained a friendship w/another younger girl (23) for several years as well.  I guess I'm saying that time/maturity has helped (not cured) this situation, and as much hurt as I felt for my DD, I couldn't do much except try to keep myself going (This board and Alanon were so helpful)  Best wishes for your continued well being.

[jellibeans]

Rapt

I find it hard to use SET with her regarding her inability to keep friends without coming across as critical. I am not there for the conflict and I only hear her side. I know she is difficult to be around at times and just the fact she has had so many friends come and go tells me she is not able to resolve conflict with them. Her friends don't know how to deal with her and that is what altimately destroys the relationship.

Trytry... .I do hope she gets better. It is hard to watch and I feel bad for her. Today she got up and went running at 5am! then has been sleeping the whole day away. She is probably very sad about the whole thing and doesn't know how to reapir the friendship. She feels like she is right and there is nothing that will change that unfortunately.

Thanks ladies for the input.

[tristesse]

Hi jellibeans,

Wow this is a tough one, especially since your dd is so young, she is at a pretty tender age. I can say in all honesty that my dd30 has had a few friends since her early childhood, around the age of 7 or 8, and they are great friends still today. They have had a few falling out moments and didn't speak for lengthy periods of time, but she knew when she had crossed a line with them, and after some thought she would make amends. Sometimes though, she would be the one in the right, and her friends had  been crappy to her. I think a lot of that is just being teen aged girls  , I raised 2 daughters and there is nothing on earth that compares to the drama of teen age girls. That being said, I am not sure that there is really anything that you can do, or should do. Maybe you can ask her what happened, ask her to tell you her side of the story., just listen and be mom. Maybe she will come to realize that she made a mistake, (if in fact she did), just by talking about it. I know you hurt when she hurts, so I wish you well in this endeavor, and I hope you get the answer you need. Take care.

[spudsnsalsa]

Following this thread as I too have a BPDd16 with a revolving friendship door. Has one friend who has held on through all the drama for 4 years now but most of the others have the same cycle... .dives in very deep very fast and then at the first rough patch they get the black paint treatment of which I've been reading and then they are gone! She is ALWAYS the 'victim'... .sigh.

[MammaMia]

jellibeans

I am not sure we can help our BPD children make and keep friends.  Offering suggestions may not work.

Often BPD is a very lonely place.  Partly because pwBPD seek isolation and partly because they have so few people skills because they are so focused on themselves. Perhaps, as she grows older, she will learn from her past relationship failures... .but I do believe this is a component of the disorder.

Does anyone else have another explanation?

[Elbry]

My DD 15 goes through the revolving door of friends also.  We live in a very small community so she cycles through the same group of friends over and over again.  The love/hate thing is hard to keep up with.  Some of the friends are very unhealthy, they are also cutters have suicidal ideation, substance abuse problems etc.  A whole pack of little borderlines.  The drama is unbelievable.  Right now my DD is Off again with them, thank the Gods, because they are not good for her.  She is back to being friends with some girls who are much healthier for her.  I try to be so encouraging and supportive of her friendship with them, but really I know there is nothing I can do if she decides to go back to being friends with the other girls.  I let her do pretty much whatever she wants with people she has a healthy relationship with, and I really tried to limit her access to people she was going to be abusing substances with or getting ideas about cutting with.  But it's hard because the more I tried to limit her the more she rebelled. 

It's almost like someone in an abusive relationship.  When she is away from them, in the hate phase, she talks to me about all the unhealthy and dangerous things they do and how bad they are for her.  Then they make up and the love phase kicks in and heaven help me if I say one bad thing about them.

[MammaMia]

Elbry

My GD has been in that place, and she is does not have BPD.  Teenage girls are often catty, jealous, and cruel.  They gossip, run in cliques, bully each other, and get into physical altercations. Sadly, in many respects this is considered "normal" behavior these days. 

Society seems to allow conflict and power struggles but these kids are not emotionally prepared to deal with it. My gd who is now 17 has outgrown this phase but it was difficult and hurtful.  She has lost friends to suicide because of acute abuse by peers. 

In our State, we have enacted laws to stop bullying and cyber bullying, they are now considered punishable crimes. 

[theplotthickens]

Hi jellibeans!

Since this is associated with our kids' symptoms, I think we can and should intentionally "treat" it in any way that works and seems appropriate (requiring activities, providing opportunities to connect with others, volunteering/service, developing friendships with other parents who have kids the same age).  Building relationships is an integral part of well-being and resilience.  I think it should be part of our treatment plan, in some capacity.  The "how" will look different in every family, but we need to be intentional about staying plugged in to community and building friendships.  Since our BPDers burn through friendships, it is even more vital to provide opportunities to meet positive people and develop new relationships.

Have you ever seen "Mindsight" by Dan Siegal?  His ideas about mind, brain, and relationships are extremely interesting!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjM-D8sPRks

[Thursday]

Hi jellibeans,

This is such an interesting topic.

For most of her teenage years SD had a single very good friend, a few neighborhood kids that she hung with infrequently but to who she pledged "sisterhood" and a smaller group of girls that, when her best friend was too busy to come over for a sleepover, would appear, one at a time, at our door.

There were a lot of difficulties on her part with maintaining friendships. She tried to control the best friend and bossed this girl around and pretty much demanded that this girl not have other friends. The girl had a close in age sister and thus other girls would come into the BF's life through her sister so SD had a lot less control than she wanted. To a certain extent I think the best friend sort of enjoyed her role with SD... .she often "told on" SD when SD was acting irrationally. She didn't seem to mind being bossed around.

Hard to understand... .I once overheard SD telling the girlfriend to give her purse to SD. It was a designer bag and had been a gift to the GF for her recent birthday... .but the next day SD had the bag. I made her give it back (not a popular Step-mom that week!)

At 16 we sent SD to a wilderness therapeutic camp for about four months. During this time the best friend withdrew from the relationship and once SD was back she never came over again. SD would not discuss it. We then had two more years of high school with a different "best friend" each week. And the friends were more and more troubled in their own lives. Kids from very broken homes, kids who were in constant trouble at school, daily pot smokers, thieves, liars, losers.

I used to talk to SD about her friendships and their quality when there was an opening. She was hardly ever  attentive and would deflect to silliness when things got uncomfortable for her. If she could stay focused to listen, when we arrived at a place of self-examination she would be there only briefly before she would fall apart, devastated by low self-esteem and would begin to exhibit extreme self-loathing. Since she no longer lives with us this doesn't seem appropriate for our relationship to continue to open this type of discussion. Which I see as both a shame and a salvation for myself, because she COULD self-examine and desire to make changes in herself but it was too hard to figure out what to do with herself once she found insight and I was so often just at a loss to know how to help her. She has a really hard time when a big effort is needed, she has trouble holding onto inspiration. I find if she has to sit with either guilt or shame she will spin quickly into self-destruct mode. I doubt this has ever been uncovered or addressed in her years of therapy.

She still suffers with these issues although it seems she has learned to be a part of a larger group even if there is nobody in the group who will join her as part of a duo. She does much better with men to hang around with although she obviously craves female interaction. She also choses older women to hang out with as she cycles in and out of composure. I've always felt that were I a different sort of person she would have swallowed me whole in her attempts to find a mother in me. It was all very inappropriate and I have really had to draw a clean boundary around this.

At 23 she has never had a relationship. About a year and a half ago she had a boy interested in her. She was excited about it for a bit. She relished changing her relationship status on facebook and did so (changed to "in a relationship" but the next day she changed it back to single and didn't see the guy again. He was a nice kid, talented and smart. He was quite smitten with SD but SD didn't trust it. Would not talk about it to her Dad (she and I were low contact at that point) Seems clear she avoided the relationship to avoid a loss... .Her Dad and I tried to talk to her about this but she blocked these discussions with various tactics.

So, in other, more succinct words, we have tried to help her by putting it on the table for discussion. All aspects of this really, from her behavior to discussing how people like to be treated (guiding her to reflect on what makes her happy... .a bit like pulling teeth) to leaving her, now, to her own devises.

As many of you know, she is active in AA. She has had three sponsors now. Two have quit, the last moved. She is now sponsor-less, which worries me. Right now she is doing well so I'm not saying anything to her or her Dad. Keeping a watchful eye though. I know for sure that she lost one of the sponsors due to her behavior towards other women the sponsor was sponsoring... .jealousy and insecurity on her part drove the sponsor to bail on her. SD's neediness and not being pro-active in her own life also frustrated the sponsor.

jellibeans, I find that SD doesn't actively listen but there is something passive  but beneficial at play... .if she hears it enough sometimes a little bit of the info clicks. To say nothing doesn't always feel right because she is so lost as to how to manage her interpersonal relationships. This is of such vital importance for a few reasons... .

Now that she isn't just under our roof she benefits from a variety of people giving her advice. It helps her level out after high anxiety episodes. She needs to hear about normal to get to a normal place. It's not the same way to process by learning that most of us have but she NEVER learns if she doesn't see for herself. I consider these interpersonal relationship issues to be the hardest of her problems.

She is so completely social! She needs to have  a social life and you can't have a social life alone... .

sorry I went on so long. Hope somebody can find something in my reply!

thursday

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jaynebrain]

 - there is a great deal of focus on relationships in DBT - I don't know if it might be helpful to read up on that model.  There is a focus on not judging (a source of my daughter's chaotic relationships for sure), being a friend, facial expressions - setting good boundaries on friendships and learning to self soothe instead of looking for friends to do that for you.  I have tried to model a good friendship to my daughter but the greatest lesson has been DBT group where she is learning from her peers.

Good Luck and I feel your pain completely - there are so many families in out community that have felt the sting of being painted black   The good news is that these girls are young and can still be shaped.  Also, important to remember that their peers are also learning how to be young adults and do also make their own mistakes - sorry for the rambling response, I really am trying to encourage you. 

[lever.]

My DD did have a pattern when she was younger of getting into intense relationships with friends which then fell apart among a lot of trauma and distress.

This has improved with maturity.

I could tell the difference between ordinary friendships which have endured and the very intense friendships which went wrong.

I do think the relationship skills in the DBT programme are very helpful.

I think these intense friendships caused my DD a lot of pain and it was difficult for me to help.

I think she tended to see my own friendships as rather superficial.

[jellibeans]

Lever, jaynebrain -My dd does see a DBT therapist but I really don't know what skills she is working on with her. I don't have a lot of contact with her as DD goes on her own to see her and I have given her the space to be with her T alone.

I am hopeful she will learn how to be a better friend. I just hate to see her repeat this pattern over and over again. This last friend was a very close friend and I think had a good influence on dd. I do think she regrets what happened but I am not really sure of what went on exactly and I never will since it is coming from her reality.

thepotthickens... .I will watch the video... .thanks appreciate it

Thursday- I really don't feel like my dd listens to me but I will keep trying to guide her. I usually wait for her to come to me for advise and sometimes she does and that is when she listens... .at least for a little bit before getting angry and walking away.

I am finding summer to be long already and although I hate the stress that school brings I also have issues with all the free time dd has. Found out she has been stealing change from my husbands change jar that is rather large so he didn't notice. I haven't said anything yet but I think I will tuck this nugget away for a later date when she wants more freedom speech comes around again.

I think I am too numb right now to care... .the lying and stealing... .always an issue. She took my older daughters ID the other day... .I guess so she could buy cigarettes... .such a sneaky little girl.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

[Thursday]

jellibeans-

I remember well that feeling when school was out and I was faced with the summer... .a big bag of YUCK. I worked at home, used to be so happy when she would sleep all day!

And I also remember well the lengths that my Sd went to for cigarettes, the sneaky behaviors, all of the lies.  We went from there to much worse behavior but the cigarette getting activity was enough to make me tear out my hair. We had a huge jar filled with change that my DH had been collecting for many, many years... .I think since he was a teenager. One day she started hollering- she had cut her hand open on that jar when she tried to turn it over to pour out some of the money. (and it was all pennies) She could have cut her hand off on that jar!

Seems like it was every day something worse, something new, something I never could have imagined.

And you are right... .then school is back in session and the summer seems easy compared to all of the stress of getting her to school everyday, the broken dress code (daily for months) and her behavior in classes that she didn't like was horrible including threatening teachers. Her grades, her future- it was all such a mess.

Now, at 23 she is maturing. She is managing her life. She's doing OK... .still acts too much on impulse but she is making better choices for herself and staying out of trouble. She is clean and sober for 3 years too after a two year addiction to benzos and all of the crappy behavior that goes along with that.

Stay hopeful!

thurs

We tried everything. You are doing what you can and I encourage you to focus on what you can do and not so much on what you can't do much about.

[jellibeans]

Thank Thursday

I am doing the best I can and I hope she gets better in time. Just got home from Father's day dinner and it was nice to go out to dinner as a family. No drama at all. I have told my H to cash in his change... .just too big of a temptation for her. Hard living with someone you always have to be on guard with. The older she gets the more bold she gets.

Did you have any luck getting your dd to go to visit colleges during the summer? I just suggested this and was shot down pretty fast. I won't ask again... .I thought she would like that but I forget her anxiety issues and her fear of leaving this house even though that is her dream.

[Thursday]

Did you have any luck getting your dd to go to visit colleges during the summer? I just suggested this and was shot down pretty fast. I won't ask again... .I thought she would like that but I forget her anxiety issues and her fear of leaving this house even though that is her dream

SD was not happy as a student. I think this is one area that actually forwarded her problems with self-esteem. Her Mom had her phd in a challenging field of study and was a bookworm type and it was always expected that SD would be a good student and that she would be more like her Mom. Looking with my uninvolved eyes(meaning not as involved as her Mom) it was clear from my start with her that SD was not interested in education or learning. She did so poorly in high school, her only option was community college.

SD probably never gave going away to college any thought, mostly because she simply wasn't interested but also because she had, at that point in her life, never considered living anywhere except our city, our home.

She started community college at 18 but it was a disaster because at that time she was using and she just wasn't interested in school at all. She quit college at 19 on academic probation (after 4 semesters) with a GPA of less than 1.0 and has never gone back. She has no plans to ever go back.

It is so hard to let go of expectations. Having fewer expectations, especially unrealistic expectations has actually helped DH and I AND SD... .she doesn't express it but I imagine that she felt heaped with stress to be so different from and disappointing to her Mom. Her Mom, from what I have been able to determine, was in denial about SD's stature as a student. Her Mom worked to get SD placed in gifted and talented programs in elementary school but SD never qualified. It is very hard to get my head around this. Gifted and talented is NOT my SD. She has no drive towards academics. She has her talents but none of them revolve around education or a goal that requires higher education. Imagine being cherished and loved by someone who believes you are someone you are not... .and imagine knowing you are really not capable of the level of work that is expected of you... .and in not being so, you are disappointing the one person you wish you could please... .

Since your DD has held a dream of going away to college maybe this is something she will one day pursue on her own. My SD has matured since high school- maybe not as much as we would like but she has grown up a bit and this has made it easier for her to find herself. It's still a process but we have seen some growth, nevertheless.

thursday

[jellibeans]

Thursday

We have set the bar pretty low for dd. Finishing High school is something we do expect from her. She doesn't need to go to college but when I suggest beauty school or something else she feels I am saying she is stupid... .I really can win no matter what I do with her. My older daughter left to train for simming in FLA today and I thought her and i could visit some colleges next week but she is totally against it so I won't bring it up again. I really don't need to waste my money by sending her away to school. She puts in only minimal effort right now... .I really think she would do better with a trade of some kind. Her ODD makes it impossible to have a conversation about anything without her feeling like I am trying to control her. I try to say less and less... BUT it is so hard at times.

[Thursday]

 

getting SD through high school was a terrible time for all involved. But we, like you, did expect her to finish.

sorry things are so impossible jellibeans. Do something very nice for yourself this weekend, OK?

Thursday

[mimis]

Dear jellibeans, 

thank you for starting this thread. I have been worried for my UBPDD22 as she is so lonely.  All I see is my little girl that has no friends and I revert back to mom who wants to tell her friends to stop being so mean and be friends with my kid.  Only to come to reality and realize that it is my DD actions that have made her friends go by the wayside.  She is always tells her friends that they are never there for her.  Not sure of her expectations but her friends have become very tired of her accusations.  They don't understand nor have the patience to deal with her emotions.  When I try to give advice, I am seen as taking her friends side and all she hears is how awful she is.  I like you have tried but have been unsuccessful.  It hurts my heart when she tells me she has no friends because I can't deny this statement.  It is really hard right now too because her Birthday is coming and I am afraid she will be alone. 

[theplotthickens]

Has anyone found a useful treatment for the social skills deficits?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders