HOW DOES YOUR BPD WIFE AFFECTS YOUR CHILDREN PHYSCOLOGICALLY

[Fanie]

Good morning from South Africa !

I have 2 toddlers (3and 5) and obviously worried about the kids and

their psychological development as future adults ... .

How does a mother, or then your BPD wife, affect (especially long term)

them.

Tell me your story of your kids and how do you deal with it ?

Thanx

[hergestridge]

It worries me a lot. I try to minimize the damage by spending as much time as possible on my own with my daughter. Spending time with the whole family is kind of pointless because all time and energy is eaten by conflicts my wife created with our daughter (now four).

It has come to a point where our daughter doedn't want to go home after daycare, because she knows there will be fighting there. And she's starting to understand that it has something to do with mommy.

The girl it especially difficult herself though, although her mom projects all kinds of problems onto her. As I said, the less time spent with mom the better. It's sad but true.

[Fanie]

Can you elaborate:

does your wife do it differently when you are not there? (ie.more friendly to the kids)

does she make you look bad in the eyes of the kids?

does she try to make her look better?

is the fighting loud or subtle?

Thanx for your inputs

[OutOfEgypt]

Hi Fanie,

It really depends.  But it isn't good for them, that's for sure.  I think there are really TWO aspects of how a BPD mother effects the children.

1) The effects of the BPD/NPD mother's self-absorption, waif-ing, temper tantrums, emotional neglect, constant demand for attention and adoration, projecting, invalidation of all of their feelings and perceptions, etc.  There are ample books out there that describe this, and it isn't pretty.  Kids CAN survive it, obviously.  But most life-long struggles that we grow up with are attachment-based and formed in the early years of childhood.  This is not unique to BPD's, but you can imagine having a BPD mother would screw up the works a bit.

2) The second issue, for those of us who are married to the BPD person, is OUR involvement and participation in the mess.  On one hand, we are overly indulgent and passive (walking on eggshells) and allow the BPD to write the rules of the house, with us left "coping" and "picking up the pieces."  And often times, in our obsession with our BPD partner, we become obsessed with understanding everything about what is wrong with THEM.  There is some benefit to it, but often we become fixated on it as a way to avoid dealing with the clear contributions we are making to the problem.  The obsession with our BPD spouse IS, in a nutshell, our contribution to the problem.  See, as much as we may be there for the kids, we leave our kids with nobody to attach to when we remain our BPD spouse's indulgent little emotional slave.  They are without anybody to validate their feelings and perceptions about what is clearly wrong.  And they are stuck with mommy and daddy both being obsessed with BPD mommy and what's wrong with mommy and what mommy is doing and why mommy does it and what she might do next and if she will stop and get better and blah blah blah blah.  It essentially abandons the kids.  So, the second big impact on the kids, from what I see, is having the OTHER parent abandon them through being the codependent enabler of the awful situation, preoccupied with the BPD wife, endlessly stuck on how to make it all better or why things are so bad.  The kids need at least ONE stable parent, and in our obsession with the BPD spouse, we can effectively rob them of the grounding in reality they need, depending on the degree.

[OutOfEgypt]

I can tell you the story of my children.

My step-son is now a young adult, but he has had a hell of a time.  Before I came into the picture, his mom was a single mother.  But from what I gather, she was much the same.  I've pieced together from what I've seen and others have said that, in spite of working a lot to make ends meet and doing some fun things with her sun, she was usually obsessed with having sex with her current boyfriend or trolling for new attachments in online chat rooms.  I've heard that "whenever we went over there to pick up her son, all we saw was the back of her head [because she was glued to the computer screen]."

My step-son's biological father is a violent man who has been in and out of prison, and he hadn't really seen him since he was two years old.  So, my step-son was effectively left without any wonderful attachments from his biological father or mother.  From an early age, he acted out aggressively, and when he was in kindergarten (I was his new step-dad at that time), he was diagnosed with ADHD.  His mother dumped him on me and my parents all the more, and slept all day (not because of the diagnosis... . just in general, because that is what she does).  When he would act out, she would often react with yelling and violence.  I, being a new dad, knew that wasn't right but soon followed her approach since it seemed to work with him.  But we consistently had problems with him lying, acting out, getting into fights, refusing to do schoolwork, having problems with anxiety and fidgeting and social interactions.  At one point, in one of the ADHD forums online, someone recommended I look into something called "reactive attachment disorder" -basically a disorder stemming from severely broken attachments with parental figures.  It fits him 100%, but at the time we were too busy going down the ADHD route.

I always felt that there was a competition with him, too.  It wasn't until the divorce (and some of his mom and I's periodic separations) that I finally realized and pieced together that there was SO MUCH LESS tension in our relationship when his mother and I were not together.  He finally had someone to validate his experiences with his mom.  And He no longer felt the need to compete (at least with me) for her affection.  This kid has been chasing his mother for her love and involvement and care and approval his entire life.  He is the main "man" in her life that is totally obsessed with her, to this day, and he is a young adult.  He has some bad mental health issues, has been in and out of the juvenile justice system for criminal activity, and sometimes explains feelings of intense anxiety around his mother and periodic dissociative symptoms (feelng like he is "leaving his body".  He has also had problems with cutting, often immediately after a big yelling fight with his mother.

It is clear to me that this is what a child looks like when he becomes enmeshed with chasing his mother but watching her pathologically check out and chase after everything else under the sun... . men, video games, new obsessions, etc.  I feel terribly for him, but it is understandable that I almost never see him as he is always jumping at any chance he can get to hang out with his mom.

I am not his biological dad, so my bond would ostensibly never be as strong as that with his mom.  So much of this is expected.  He has a girlfriend, and a child from another girlfriend, but has sworn that he will NEVER get married.

With my daughters, the situation is different. I've been with them since the beginning of their lives, I have that bond with them, and I've made the steps to get healthy for myself, even though they have witnessed too much.  They are doing okay, but they definitely have some anxiety and social interaction issues.  I also see some "splitting"-type behavior with my eldest daughter.  My youngest has some serious clinging-attachment issues, so she clings to me.

And I know my eldest daughter obviously loves her mommy, but she is often angry at her mother and angry about how the family is broken.  Last night she told me, "I want to go home." I asked what that meant, because she is with me for this week and next, in her "home."  I understood that she meant she wants to go back to the days when she was four years old and everything "seemed" okay in her little world.  But now her family is broken, and she carries around this sadness and anger.  That is an artifact of divorce, but I know she doesn't talk to her mother about this and likely blames her mom to a large degree.  This is why I recommend that ANYBODY who is in a relationship with a BPD not undergoing treatment and doesn't have children to GET OUT.  I knew it would end up this way one day, but for too long I couldn't do it.  Now my kids have to STILL suffer, because of the divorce.  It sucks.  But at least they get a healthy daddy.

I would never try to tell you what to do because it is your life, but I would also add that my youngest is doing best with the separation from her mom.  I believe that is generally the case.  So, if you are even thinking of breaking away from their mom or doing something to end the madness as it is, the children seem to deal with it better when they are younger rather than older.  The longer you wait, the worse it may be.

So to sort of echo my post before this one... . it is not merely the BPD mom who effects them, it is the RELATIONSHIP (the marriage) that effects them, too.  That is something you have to take partial responsibility for and decide if or what you will do about it.

[Forestaken]

My S24 & D20 are in therapy.  In some ways their issues are the same and yet different.  

Same:

Difficulty in romantic r/s.  Both do not see the positives of a r/s.  :)20: no r/s; S24 short r/s; A lot of anger (mostly S24); Both felt cheated of a happy home life; Holidays are meaningless; Wary of other reactions; When they set boundries; the boundries are brittle not bendable; S24 has problems letting go of offensives (D19 too but less);

Different:

Since my X was dOCD; S24 does alot of hand washing;

[hergestridge]

Can you elaborate:

does your wife do it differently when you are not there? (ie.more friendly to the kids)

does she make you look bad in the eyes of the kids?

does she try to make her look better?

is the fighting loud or subtle?

Thanx for your inputs

I don't know if she's friendlier when I'm not there. If she's been alone with our daughter for a few hours I usually ask her how things went and she usually says that it "eventually" turned out OK, so it seems it's the same mess when when I'm not there.

She doesn't make me look bad in the eyes of our daughter at all. My wife is rigid, demanding and confrontative and our daughter is starting to find her unplesant to be around. This is especially heartbreaking because our daughter is four years old and can't help that she loves her mom regardless of what she does. A typical scenario is that my wife gets into one of her fights with our daughter at night and ends up being "fed up" with her, so that I have to put her to bed instead. The girl still cries herself to sleep because she loves mom.

The fighting is loud and not very subtle. She just freaks our over stuff that kids to (messes with food, refuses to go to bed and do things on time).  She slightest thing irritates her and she lets the world know very loudly. She's like a kid herself, and I think our four year old just outgrew her when it come to skils like patience and endurance.

This is also a periodic thing, so this is much worse approx half of the time. The rest of the time it's a semi-serious problem.

[Love Is Not Enough]

The kids need at least ONE stable parent, and in our obsession with the BPD spouse, we can effectively rob them of the grounding in reality they need, depending on the degree.

I think this is key. This is why you have to follow the tools and deescalate the drama as best as you can. You have to parent the children and your spouse. So you have to work twice as hard and try to be as perfect as possible because any little mistake you make can have massive repercussions. I also have a SD3 and SD5 that I adore and they have really motivated me to get control of the situation. I have witnessed some terrible events when my gf has dysregulated on my SD5 and I know it has affected her deeply. She is very whiny, clingy and can never be alone. I see the extreme emotional sensitivity in both of the girls and I can see how growing up with their BPD mother could easily create the next generation of BPD. Even at this early age I can see the SD5 has waif-like tendencies and the SD3 has queen-like tendencies. Not that they are BPD, but just that they could develop into those roles with improper care. So I work very hard to validate everyone and jump in when I see my gf start to lose it with them. It will be interesting to see if I am able to circumvent the next generation of BPD or if the genetics are just too overpowering. I hope I am able to as I see a very bright future for these girls. They are beautiful and very smart. I'm sure every parent says that! 

My gf recently commented that she really likes how I have taken more of a lead in the discipline of the girls. She says it helps her to stay calm. I think her T pointed this out to her. I also have to say that my gf has been working hard in DBT and doing her best to regulate her emotions better. I have also been working on my dependency issues, detaching from my gf and stepping out of the drama. All of this has created a much more stable environment for the children. Everything has been coming together recently and the girls seem to be doing really well.

So to protect your children from the psychological damage I would recommend really utilizing the tools and setting boundaries to create a stable environment. Try to take the lead and be the best you that you can be. Which will hopefully lead to your partner with you down the path of recovery. It will not be easy, but your little ones are worth it. 

[hergestridge]

One thing I found really difficult was to let my BPDw be a "grown up". I really wanted her to be, and she demanded I treated her like one too. Not that I realize she can't take the responisibility and that I have to take the lead its a bit easier.

The most difficult time now is when she has her "dark days". Normally she can be almost grateful for helping her sort her life out, but when the demons come I'm just the abuser who denied bullies her and alienates her from her child. Those demons come and go like the rain.

Sometimes she even finds someone (therapist, friend etc) who she can make belive those accusations, and to an outsider who don't know of her illness it can look really, really convincing. That makes me frightened as hell sometimes. Having to fend of the rumours and possible legal actions.

In her twisted world she can have these potentially danegrous "campaigns" running and still live with me, plan a future and be in love with me. Don't ask me about that particular equation.

[Boss302]

My BPDx's behavior has had a major impact on both kids - D13 and D17. She has MAJOR issues with honesty and trustworthiness, and does not live a stable lifestyle. She was evicted three times in less than three years since our separation, and has "bedroom surfed" with her sister and friends for over two years. The kids basically have six overnight visits with her a month, all on weekends, and the "room surfing" environments aren't bad or unwholesome, just inconvenient, so I'm not too concerned about the environment. She also depends on other people to do all her driving.

Last night she left the last bedroom surf situation and is now in a Holiday Inn Express for an unspecified amount of time - again, not the ideal environment, but not unacceptable for visits.

So, when the kids are with her, they're basically shut in a room or basement with her, and while that's not necessarily inappropriate, it's not all that healthy either. But the alternative would be a lengthy, costly and probably unwinnable return to court, so I let it happen as long as the environment isn't unacceptable. If she lived out of a fleabag hotel, or some homeless shelter, that would be a different story.

She repeatedly tells them that she has this house or that house lined up to live in (she's said so to me at least five or six times since January), and repeatedly fails to make that happen.

This has DEFINITELY affected the kids - they've adopted a kind of "bunker" mentality when they're with her. The evictions definitely affected D13 - she's come home twice from school to find all her stuff on the front lawn (the third time happened when the kids were with me, thank God). BPDx never bothered to tell me about any of these events in advance, so they blindsided me and the kids. It's been hardest on D13 - she has abandonment issues with her mom, and every time she ends up evicted, the kid ends up depressed and has no idea how to handle it. The last time, in January, she went to school a few days later and told the counselor she was thinking about suicide, and ended up in a hospital for a couple of weeks. Ironically, this proved to be a good thing for her - she learned some coping mechanisms, and also learned that it was OK to open up to me about her mom's issues. She knows I won't use that as some kind of excuse to take her away from her mother. I actually outlined the circumstances that WOULD prompt me to do so. She has also opened up to me about how much her mom's lying enrages her, and I've validated her feelings on that. I've told her that it's OK to love Mom, but you have to figure out how to protect yourself from her issues, and set boundaries. Not easy to do for a 13 year old kid.

My first instinct with D13 is to cut her off from Mom entirely, but probably that won't work legally, and honestly, maybe it's better to have her experience all this bad stuff, so that she learns how to deal with it.

The effect on D17 is more subtle, but it's there. She has huge issues with trust. Nevertheless, she still buys into her mom's promises to send her to an expensive private school (a huge mistake for her to make, but since she's older, I'm letting her make the mistake on her own). I cannot fathom how she is buying this, or why (as an adult, I'd tell her no, but she's not an adult and only sees the chance to attend some fancy school in Vermont... . typical stupid teenage behavior, but again, that's her choice).

What's most interesting is the difference in how both kids handle the situation. D13 isn't really accepting Mom's BS anymore, and tells me about what's going on; I try to use my experience and knowledge of BPD to help her deal with the issues. D17's handling of the situation reminds me of mine - I like to say she's "riding the tide" - not necessarily accepting Mom's BS, but not rejecting it either. She's still walking on eggshells.

Both kids get drawn in to Mom's drama all the time - they're too young to know how to disengage effectively.

[Fanie]

Than you everybody for sharing 

I would love to know more from OOF and BOSS and LINE

maybe more detail ... . (sorry) coz my kids are my worry !

(I am 55 my wife 32... oeps)

At the moment she is ... like 100% mommy and homemaker (she also has a good job doing very well)

(I will know by tomorrow the % towards me... . this is actually another story and the story quickly is:

I don't fight - I flight and that is not good for the kids  I go quiet , and to be honest I was thinking of breaking up ... . but decided to continue)

So thank you here for Love Is Not Enough' by teaching me to be the leader, which I was not properly, and I think she is wanting that for the kids and for HER

and I quote:

Try to take the lead and be the best you that you can be

PS. I think she does not have big BPD traits (maybe more bad and I mean real bad friends that aggravated the "higher level" ? uBPD)