Parenting plan and business trips

[ihtfp]

I have, thanks to the wealth of discussion here, drafted a parenting plan for submission prior to my upcoming custody hearing. I think it's pretty solid, fingers crossed. One thing that it's currently missing, I do occasionally travel for work (2-4 times per year, 3-5 days per trip) and I am trying to figure out some language that requires us to work together and negotiate a trade for time unless there is some really valid (and you know how "valid" goes... . ) reason why UstbxBPDW cannot accommodate it. I also need to include that such modifications are lower priority than holidays or already-scheduled summer vacation. I am also wary of putting in any language that makes it sound like I am going to be taking a lot of trips (to the detriment of my relationship with DD), although like the rest of the plan, the language is neutral and would apply to both parents equally.

Does anyone have any examples of how they have handled this in their plans? I have some language for "family gatherings" (reunions/weddings/graduations/emergencies) so maybe I can adapt that or simply add business trips to that - although I should add that I am already very wary of that whole section since (although I have worded it very carefully and placed a lot of limits on it) it is a strong candidate for abuse.

Many thanks to everyone who has posted here. This forum has been invaluable to helping me craft a parenting plan and cover all the scenarios I would not have imagined (but that I immediately realized would be problematic as soon as I read them) on my own. Sorry I have not posted an introduction yet, I will try to do so soon.

[Matt]

If either parent needs to travel for work-related reasons, he or she will communicate the details to the other parent by e-mail with as much notice as practical, and the schedule will be adjusted accordingly.

[livednlearned]

Do you have rights of first refusal (RoFR) written into your agreement?

Even with ROFR in my agreement, I still ran into problems with business travel and N/BPDx. He treated ROFR as a way to stop me from going on the trip -- he wanted to be able to deny or approve depending on whether he thought the trip was truly for business. At first, he would stall so that I'd get nervous, but over time I figured out how to write emails in a way to get him to cooperate. I would write things like, "I will not be able to care for S12 from x month/date to y month/date. If you would like to spend that time with him, please let me know by 5pm tomorrow night. If I do not hear from you, I will make alternate arrangements."

I'd get a bunch of emails that were intended to rattle my cage, to which I learned to ignore. Usually, right before the deadline, I would give him one last chance. Most of the time he would relent (always saying something abusive), and things would work out.

Still, I think I could've added much more detailed language to the order so that there was no ambiguity. "In the event one party must travel for work, rights of first refusal apply. The party who will be traveling must offer rights of first refusal to the other parent within x weeks/months/days prior to travel. The other parent must respond within 24 hours, otherwise the traveling parent will make alternate arrangements. A failure to respond will be interpreted as a negative response.

Alternately, if your ex is the person traveling, and she doesn't offer ROFR, it might be worth including a clause that if arrangements are made without asking the other parent, the parent staying behind may end the alternate arrangement and pick the kids up.

It seems so over-the-top, but high-conflict is high-conflict. It doesn't tend to go away. Better to have things very spelled out.

[ihtfp]

If either parent needs to travel for work-related reasons, he or she will communicate the details to the other parent by e-mail with as much notice as practical, and the schedule will be adjusted accordingly.

Well, that was pretty easy and seems reasonable to me. I realize now that it's not as complicated as I had thought since business trips result in giving away custody, not gaining it, so the potential for abuse is not that high.

[Matt]

If either parent needs to travel for work-related reasons, he or she will communicate the details to the other parent by e-mail with as much notice as practical, and the schedule will be adjusted accordingly.

Well, that was pretty easy and seems reasonable to me. I realize now that it's not as complicated as I had thought since business trips result in giving away custody, not gaining it, so the potential for abuse is not that high.

Well there's another approach - as LnL suggests... .

RFR is very common.  It could work something like this:

If either parent will be unable to take care of Child as planned, the other parent will be given the opportunity to take that time, with as much notice as possible.

Or something like that.  Your lawyer probably has RFR language from other agreements she has worked on.

This gets it away from a "business trip" issue and into a standard arrangement, so the child won't be handed over to someone other than the parents - one parent won't hand her over to a friend or family member when the other parent is available to care for her.

One variation on this is that instead of giving up time, there could be a change in the schedule so the amount of time stays the same.  The language I offered - "the schedule will be adjusted accordingly" - implies that but doesn't say it.

So one question is, can you assume that both parents will work sensibly to adjust the schedule?  Or does the agreement need to explicitly say, "the schedule will be changed so that both parents keep the same amount of parenting time"?

Or does it need to include even more detailed language saying exactly how the schedule will be changed?  That could be complicated... .

[ihtfp]

Do you have rights of first refusal (RoFR) written into your agreement?

I do not have ROFR in the draft, the potential problems/drawbacks just seemed too great (and I have read about them in other threads here) - in that I have to give up my time to stbx rather than having someone who is perfectly reasonable to me (a member of my family or spouse if I get remarried) provide care for absences (especially if short).

Still, I think I could've added much more detailed language to the order so that there was no ambiguity. "In the event one party must travel for work, rights of first refusal apply. The party who will be traveling must offer rights of first refusal to the other parent within x weeks/months/days prior to travel. The other parent must respond within 24 hours, otherwise the traveling parent will make alternate arrangements. A failure to respond will be interpreted as a negative response.

Alternately, if your ex is the person traveling, and she doesn't offer ROFR, it might be worth including a clause that if arrangements are made without asking the other parent, the parent staying behind may end the alternate arrangement and pick the kids up.

So, this is interesting even without ROFR. Wording it like this allows me to offer stbx a trade but I'll just line up alternative care if she refuses to agree to a trade. That way she can't interfere with my trip.

It seems so over-the-top, but high-conflict is high-conflict. It doesn't tend to go away. Better to have things very spelled out.

I completely agree that it's better this way. I feel like my entire parenting plan is over the top, but most of the tedium and pedantry is born out of real situations which we have encountered and conflicted over already and that she has simply asserted her will on and taken. How to deal with every potential situation is only going to help.

[Waddams]

I purposely kept RofR out of my decree.  Too much potential for uPDxw to try to use it abusively.  And even with it not in there, she still acts like it's in there and tries to pull the same crap LnL and others have experienced.  

JMHO, but the less in the decree that gives the other party a leg to stand on when trying to tell you what to do (because they will whether it's in there or not) the better when dealing with PD people.  

[ihtfp]

Well there's another approach - as LnL suggests... .

RFR is very common.  It could work something like this:

If either parent will be unable to take care of Child as planned, the other parent will be given the opportunity to take that time, with as much notice as possible.

Or something like that.  Your lawyer probably has RFR language from other agreements she has worked on.

This gets it away from a "business trip" issue and into a standard arrangement, so the child won't be handed over to someone other than the parents - one parent won't hand her over to a friend or family member when the other parent is available to care for her.

I think I want to just leave ROFR out of it because I just see too many potential problems with it. Yes, it means she can have anyone watching DD during her time, but there is language about who can do child care. If it got excessive and she was never watching DD herself then I would probably just make a case to increase my own custody time.

One variation on this is that instead of giving up time, there could be a change in the schedule so the amount of time stays the same.  The language I offered - "the schedule will be adjusted accordingly" - implies that but doesn't say it.

So one question is, can you assume that both parents will work sensibly to adjust the schedule?  Or does the agreement need to explicitly say, "the schedule will be changed so that both parents keep the same amount of parenting time"?

Or does it need to include even more detailed language saying exactly how the schedule will be changed?  That could be complicated... .

Yeah, being explicit that it does not alter the amount of custody time is important. I hope it would not need to go so far as to say exactly how (and as you suggest, I don't know if this would even be possible).

[ihtfp]

I'm curious since I brushed on this topic. How do people in general feel about "family gatherings" clauses? Right now I say you get something like 5 per year, 3 days for each event, that the other parent must accommodate, and equal time must be traded in make up, and "family" is limited to events of parents, grandparents, aunts/uncles, cousins, for events such as weddings, graduations, and reunions. No missing school unless it's for a family medical emergency. Still, lots of potential for abuse there ("my brother's child is graduating from preschool... . ".

[Matt]

The way I deal with that is, we can change the schedule by mutual agreement.

I often travel on business, and I inform my ex as soon as I know.  I do it in the form of an e-mail stating the schedule:

I need to leave Thursday morning early and return about noon Saturday.  I will drop the kids off Wednesday by 6:00 p.m. and pick them up about noon Saturday.

Our agreement just says that reasonable changes to the schedule will be accommodated.  If my ex fought me on this stuff, I would have to go back to court to have it changed, and I've made it clear that if I go back to court it won't be for just some small problem - I'll address bigger issues that she won't like.  So neither of us want to go back to court.

She usually doesn't respond at all, which I take as acceptance.  I cc: the kids (mine were 8 and 10 when we separated, 16 and 17 now) so they know what is going on and don't feel jerked around.  Sometimes their mom will reply "OK."  Occasionally she has a real reason my change is a problem and I have to work that out with her.  But she knows that I won't put up with unreasonable fights over the issue.

Sometimes she wants a change too, like for family stuff, and I deal with that the same way.  She never sends a schedule, she only sends "My family is getting together Sunday and I'd like to take the kids." - no details.  So I respond, ":)o you want to drive there Sunday morning or Saturday afternoon?" - "I want to drive Saturday afternoon and come back Sunday evening."  So it's up to me to clarify it:  "OK, I'll drop the kids off at noon Saturday and plan to pick them up at 6:00 p.m. Sunday.  Please let me know if another time would be better."  Always stating what I will do, and giving her the opportunity to object, but not asking for approval;  if she does not respond, I will do what I say.

If your ex is very, very difficult, and you have not found a way to make her fear going back to court, you might have to put more details into the parenting plan - a pain in the neck and it will cause problems later but maybe necessary.

The key to this for me was that I have quite a bit of very serious stuff that my ex would not like to see brought up in court, so she is motivated to cooperate.  But she's very passive-aggressive.  So I have to figure everything out and go to the trouble of putting forward a schedule change with adequate details, knowing that she won't block it unreasonably if it's workable.  If your ex might be OK with going back to court over small stuff, you might want to find a way to make her change that view - find a way to let her know that if you have to go back to court over small stuff, she will regret it.  Your lawyer might have some ideas about that.

[ihtfp]

Thanks Matt, this is fantastic information. She is not afraid of court yet, we had one minor trip to court so far over a single specific issue that resulted in a win for me but with a lot of concessions to get that win. We have another one coming up very soon and this one is major, having to do with relocation and a change in custody time. If I win this she may start to get the hint about court = bad. Usually when I refer to court (and I do so nonconfrontationally) she just gets hostile and accuses me of threatening.

I have ugly things I will be bringing up this time but we have not reached a point where she understands how bad these things are for her in court, so they are not deterrents at this point. Worse, she is somewhat empowered because she thinks she has some things on me that she doesn't (because I think she is deluded about what sorts of things are relevant to a judge in family court). I am hoping this next court date will start to set that straight. But BPDs have a lot of difficulty seeing those things until they are hit over the head with them multiple times (losing only increases entitlement and indigence, especially at first).

I'm amazed that you can state changes to the schedule, is that a privilege awarded to you in the custody order or parenting plan? I ask because this has been a major point of contention for us. Her "requests" for schedule changes are always "I need this or that" and I am not given an opportunity to object. Meanwhile my requests are questions, "I would like this, can I have it please?" to which she can (and sometimes does) object. I have always maintained this mode of operation because I want to show that I have tried to work together and co-parent, even though I know that mutual decisionmaking with a BPD is largely impossible.

[ForeverDad]

Some things such as vacation notices are just that, notices, no agreement required as long as the specified rules are met.  Trades are often considered requests unless the order, schedule or plan state otherwise.

[Matt]

I'm amazed that you can state changes to the schedule, is that a privilege awarded to you in the custody order or parenting plan? I ask because this has been a major point of contention for us. Her "requests" for schedule changes are always "I need this or that" and I am not given an opportunity to object. Meanwhile my requests are questions, "I would like this, can I have it please?" to which she can (and sometimes does) object. I have always maintained this mode of operation because I want to show that I have tried to work together and co-parent, even though I know that mutual decisionmaking with a BPD is largely impossible.

There are two parts of this:  What's in the agreement, and how I communicate.

What's in our agreement is vague - "The schedule can be changed by mutual agreement." or something like that.  I agreed to that because I believed we could make it work, and for the most part we have.  (But some others here would say, "It wouldn't work with my ex - she's too ornery!", and that may be very true for them.)

How I communicate is a different thing.  I've tried different approaches, like making a "proposal" every time a change is needed, and because she is super-passive-aggressive, she just doesn't reply, and we have nothing.

So over time I learned that what works for me is to say what I'm going to do, and then do it - always by e-mail.  This leaves her the opportunity to object for some good reason - "That won't work for me - I have to go to the doctor that day." - and in those cases I need to re-think.

But most of the time it works very well, because it doesn't require any response from my ex - if she passive-aggressively doesn't respond, that's OK - I said what I'm going to do and then I do it.

If she became more difficult - for example, if she didn't reply, but then wasn't home when I took the kids (when they were younger) - this wouldn't work, and I might have to go back to court.  That's why I mentioned the "leverage" issue:  I have made sure that she won't want to go back to court, so she has to be reasonable... .

[Matt]

Trades are often considered requests unless the order, schedule or plan state otherwise.

I've stayed away from the issue of "trading time" vs. "giving up time".  I think that if it's a "trade" then, as FD says, it usually means both parties have to agree, and that can be complicated if one party is passive-aggressive.  And I don't want to just give up time.

So the way I handle it never says "trade" or "give up time" or anything like that.  It's a "schedule for this week" or "schedule for the next two weeks".

Originally we had 7/7 - 7 days with me then 7 days with her.  The exchange was 6:00 p.m. Saturday.

So if I had to travel Thursday and Friday, on "my" week, I might write:

I need to travel this Thursday morning, back late Friday.  I will drop the kids off this Wednesday at 6:00 p.m. and pick them up again Sunday at 6:00 p.m.

So you could view this as a "trade" - I'm "giving up" time from 6:00 p.m. Wednesday through 6:00 Saturday (when the exchange would normally happen), but I'm "getting" time starting 6:00 p.m. Sunday.  But by proposing it as a schedule, I avoid focusing on who gives up what and whether it's "equal" or "fair".

For me, this has an added advantage:  It gives my ex a face-saving way to give me more time.  She doesn't really want them more - she often gives up her time for flimsy reasons - but she doesn't want to accept any formal recognition that they stay with me most of the time.  So by proposing a schedule, and avoiding discussion of "trades", we both win - I get the kids more and she saves face (in her own mind).  And the kids win too, which is the most important thing.

[livednlearned]

Well there's another approach - as LnL suggests... .

RFR is very common.  It could work something like this:

If either parent will be unable to take care of Child as planned, the other parent will be given the opportunity to take that time, with as much notice as possible.

Or something like that.  Your lawyer probably has RFR language from other agreements she has worked on.

This gets it away from a "business trip" issue and into a standard arrangement, so the child won't be handed over to someone other than the parents - one parent won't hand her over to a friend or family member when the other parent is available to care for her.

I think I want to just leave ROFR out of it because I just see too many potential problems with it. Yes, it means she can have anyone watching DD during her time, but there is language about who can do child care. If it got excessive and she was never watching DD herself then I would probably just make a case to increase my own custody time.

It's important, too, that you have a sense how she will obstruct you. My ex had a lot of bluster about wanting time with S12, but it was pretty clear he didn't want that time. Some BPD sufferers might be different, and the issue is more about trying to deny your access to the kids. Since N/BPDx didn't have majority time and hardly ever traveled, ROFR was bad for me. If it was the other way around, where he did all the traveling, ROFR would've been very important to me.

If the issue is that you want your ex to take the kids when you travel, that's a slightly different scenario. Whatever you do, make sure your plan covers the different issues that happen with: 1. You traveling -- and wanting her to give a response in a timely fashion so you aren't waiting to make arrangements. 2. Her traveling -- and you wanting to have first dibs on getting the kids so that they aren't with a babysitter when it could be you.

And I would definitely make it clear that travel does not involve making up time at some other point, that just opens up more discussion about scheduling. Things are different for me now because N/BPDx doesn't see S12 anymore, but when we followed the custody schedule, the holidays always made things unbelievably complicated, or unbelievably unfair. Really comb through the schedule language so that you know exactly how things will play out.

The perfect email could always be: "Per the order... . "