How do you choose your battles?

[HealingSpirit]

Hi Everyone,

We just had a lovely and special Father's Day dinner for my DH and my father that ended with me feeling terrible after I spent the whole day preparing the meal.  My nephew (20) was with us, along with my BPDd's best friend (17).  After we ate, they got up and left the table.  A few minutes later, my DD got up too.  She picked up her plate to clear her place at the table.  I politely and casually asked her to please help clear some of the other plates and dishes as well.  She looked right at me and said, "No. I bus tables all day at work.  I'm not doing it today.  I'll clear my own plate and that's all."  (She just got her first job at a restaurant, and she has worked 3 days so far.  I'm actually thrilled about this.) 

I don't know how to respond successfully to her refusal to help. This type of resistance happens on a daily basis and it's one of my buttons.  I was stunned by her opposition, but I remained calm.  I said, "I understand you're tired of bussing tables since you do it all day at work now.  I don't blame you for being tired.  I would be too.  But I'd still like you to help clear the table tonight."  Again, she said, "Nope.  Not doing it.  Not going to happen." Then DH said, ":)o what your mother asked."  She replied, "I already told you, I'm tired and I'm not helping." 

So I said, "All we want is a little cooperation from you.  If you won't cooperate with us, we can refuse to cooperate too and take away privileges, like your use of the car."  She said something about being capable of finding her own rides, and that she didn't really need the car.  Then, she took ONLY her plate to the kitchen and went to her room. At least she did that much.  Perhaps I should call the Press and celebrate what she WAS willing to do.

So, what am I doing wrong here?  My stepmom made me feel worse because she told me she can't stand to be around when things escalate like that.  SM has no clue about BPD, but she is the ultimate authority about everything and she gives her unsolicited opinion to almost everyone.  She said I need to back off because when we have these confrontations, it makes everyone else around feel uncomfortable. 

I was feeling bad enough from frustration that my simple, reasonable request turned into a power struggle. I just wanted a little cooperation with the dishes on Father's Day.  But now I am feeling terrible because that stupid little interchange made stepmom and "everyone" uncomfortable.  If I knew what to do different, I would.  I HATE that even my small requests turn into a battle!  I told my stepmom, exactly that AND that I found this site and I'm working on learning new skills because I don't know what to do differently.  I don't want the power struggles.  They're exhausting and embarrassing, but I don't know how to prevent them.  I never know what will trigger my BPDd.

I feel like a doormat if I let DD get away with not helping around the house because MY need for help and cooperation goes unmet.  But I have learned through time that I MUST choose my battles carefully because almost anything can turn into a huge fight.  And in the grand scheme of things, is clearing an extra dish from the table worth the trouble?  This feels like such a STUPID thing to have a problem about, but it is a perfect example of the everyday struggles I have with my DD.

I'm so thankful I found this site.  I finally feel a bit of hope that there are better ways to handle these types of issues and that everyone here deals with similar things.

Still, I'm feeling really bad.  Anyone have any ideas what I did wrong? 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Dear create4joy

To answer your question... . I don't think you did anything wrong. Asking to help clear is not a major thing but you are right about picking your battles and I don't know if this was worth it. I do like the way you validated her feelings about how tired she was etc... . your dd sounds like she is ODD too... . that is what I deal with a lot and it is very frustrating. You are lucky you can get your dd to even eat with you. My dd passed on dinner with her dad tonight... . she said she wasn't hungry but she would sit with us if we wanted... . wow... . we are so lucky.

I don't know your dd but if she was tired I might have just validated her feelings and asked another person there to help clear. Do you have your expectations clearly set? She is to help around the house and then she has use of the car? If that is clearly understood then I would take the car... . taking my dd16 car is like asking her for one of her legs... . she would not be very happy but I am not sure I would do that over clearing the table.

Does your dd have any repsonsibilities around the house? My dd16 is to empty the garbage and empty the dishwasher if asked. Further I ask her to clean her room when it really has gotten bad and clean her bathroom as well. She is responsible for doing her own laundry too. Not alot of duties but a few things. She knows what is expected of her and if it is not done then there will be consequences. Right now we are not giving her money because we feel she is spending it on cigarettes but she does get use of the car and since she is not working this summer that is pretty important to her.

What does your dd get from you? What do you supply to her? phone? car? If you have communicated to her clearly what she is responsible for then there should be something lost for refusing to help out.

I am not sure why clearing was so important though... . was it because it was father's day? or that you had guests for dinner? I find my dd acts worse when she has an audience... . I try not to confront her when other are around or her reaction can be very unpredicatable... . do you think she acted differently because she had a friend there?

create4joy... . I think it is important to go back and look at what happened and see if you could do anything differently... . but sometimes there is nothing you really can do... . I really try very hard to stay away from the power struggles... . no one wins when everyone digs in their heels... .

[Thursday]

super frustrating!

In the situation you describe I don't know how you could have done anything differently. You did an admirable job of validating her and repeating what you wanted.

Were it me, I would wait for a different time to make my point. Seems like the point here was that you were wanting some assistance after doing a lot of work to make sure everyone had a nice meal. You even welcomed your DD's friend!

There will be a time to make your point. There will be a time when your DD asks for your help. At that point, I would try to recall her words to you and ask her how she would feel were you to use those words on her by refusing to help her. And then help her. Will she get it? Maybe not... . probably not. But if you don't say it she will never have the opportunity to hear this important message (which is that we help our loved ones out, even when it isn't convenient or easy or we are tired.)

I also think that having your clueless SM there, witnessing and giving unsolicited advice made this situation 100 times worse for you. Made you second guess your choices and words. I've learned, over time, to do what I feel needs to be done no matter who is there being the armchair quarterback.

I wonder how your DD would have responded, in that moment, if you were to simply say, "well you're being a big pain in the neck. All I'm asking is that you take a few dishes to the kitchen after you and your guest have had a great meal served to them... . "

Good luck, these teen years are right up there with being the hardest when you are dealing with a pwBPD... .

Thursday

[theplotthickens]

It sounds like you did a fantastic job!  No matter how good your skills are, there are many times when our BPDers push our buttons and generally only care about themselves.  

You are showing so much optimism be even asking her to clear the table!  I wouldn't have attempted it, because like jellibeans, my dd is worse in front of an audience and she never misses an opportunity to humiliate me or upset me.

The thing that helps me cope is that I don't put myself out there so much anymore.  I don't spend all day cooking like I used to.  It didn't ever end the way I pictured, with a happy family.  I ended up with me being insulted, doing all the work myself, and me feeling resentful.  I realized I was only upsetting myself doing all this.

SO now for family gathering (which are few and far between), we do potlucks or eat outl  For daily meals, my dd refuses to eat with us most of the time, which is fine with me because she always insults my cooking, or says it is "disgusting."  It is a button for me, because I used to pour my heart and soul into cooking and baking.  THey sure know how to push buttons!

Meals are not a battle I choose anymore.  Most of the time, my daughter doesn't eat with us either because she doesn't like to, or because I will not put up with even one insult anymore.  

I cook, my husband does the clean up.  It is not worth it to fight with dd.

[theplotthickens]

To directly answer your question, here are my priorities:

1) Safety

2) Living my values

3) Treating dd's illness

[HealingSpirit]

WOW!  A HUGE THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU!  ((Big hugs jellibeans, Thursday, & Plot))

I soo needed this validation from people who really get BPD.  One of my biggest challenges is that I always review the situation that didn't work and ask myself, " What did I do wrong or what I could have done differently?"  I don't do it for the purpose of beating myself up, or making myself feel bad, but that is the end effect whenever something happens with my DD.  (Come to think of it, my SM also frequently presents no-win situations too. I don't think she has BPD, but she has SOMETHING undiagnosed and she makes it her business to correct the rest of the world for all their mistakes.)

So looking back today, after a good night's sleep AND your wonderful validation, I can start my day with new confidence that it really isn't me or something I did. 

Thank you also for sharing that your BPDteens are worse in front of an audience.  I've never noticed that before with my DD, but I'll be on the lookout now.  :-)

It is also strangely comforting to realize that there are other families whose teens won't eat with them.  Yesterday was actually an exception with us BECAUSE my nephew (20) was there.  I'm sure that's the only reason DD graced us with her presence at dinner. 

I just realized something this morning coming from empathy... . I know DD WAS tired from her new job bussing tables and washing dishes.  But she also HATES her grandma (my SM).  She held it together during dinner, but my simple request at the end of it all must have sent her over the edge.  DUH!  I can see that now.  But I was tired too, so I didn't see it yesterday.

Thanks again for your great, supportive listening, all of you.   I really needed it!

(Hugs again)

[peaceplease]

create4joy,

You have already received some great replies.  I will just add a little, here.  My dd and I used to have some arguments around family.  It wasn't until I really looked at what I had was the "circular argument".  I may have been right, but making everyone uncomfortable around me by not ending it.  And, bring it up when we were alone.  

You did a great job validating her!

Perhaps, you can tell her that you get tired of cooking,too.  However, that is your contribution to the family.  And, that everyone that shares living space should contribute.  Maybe, she can have some choices on what her chores are.  Would she prefer setting up, instead of cleaning up. Or, no kitchen duties, but something else to lighten your load.  

And, I agree with Thursday, the teen years are the worst!  And, trust me, I feel my daughter is still stuck in her teen years.  Although, she will be 30 in a few days, and has a child.  But, one thing I can say, she does appreciate cleaning up after we eat, since she lives on her own.  Some times, she even will cook when she is here.  But, I honestly do not care for her dinners.  Where is the shhh! icon?  I would never hurt her feelings, though.  I appreciate her effort.  

Or, maybe you can offer her something small that she likes for a tip.

[lbjnltx]

After you did the great job of validating... . perhaps asking her if there was another chore she would like to do instead of clearing the table and/or a task that she could do later on after she rested... . like empty the dishwasher or take out the trash.

Your daughter clearly expressed that she was not willing to clear the table.  Making the same demand on her after she clearly said "no" set up the power struggle.  Remember to respect her as you would like to be respected.  Giving her choices gives her a sense of power... . a sense of power combats defiance.

lbjnltx

[DisneyMom]

This is so hard. I really felt for you reading your post. These are the kind of issues DH and I are often at odds over. My DD would have probably reacted the same way yours did. And I would have felt terrible too. I've detached from my DDs rages pretty well, but simple, basic, household chores and responsibilities, can be SUCH a struggle. I embarrass easily, and would tend to avoid a confrontation around others. This is one reason we rarely have company over, if ever. I've lowered my expectations, but it's still a work in progress. I'm sorry I don't have any particularly helpful advice. But wanted to say hang in there, you are not alone!

[Stella1425]

Just wanted to add a small detail from my life with d30. Sometimes I wish she would say "no I won't  do it". Instead she always acts like she will do something and never does it. I still haven't learned that any request of her will bring a "sure or yep" and then it never gets done. Boggles my mind!

[HealingSpirit]

Stella,

LOL!  I hear you.  That is my DD's typical "other response" as well.  And it is just as frustrating.  Just be careful what you wish for.  :-)

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[peace in steel town]

I would have called the press, definite news flash material. Did you follow up with the threat to take away use of the car? Threats with no backbone have no teeth, and they know that, and use it against you. Sounds like you managed the exchange well, good job.

[HealingSpirit]

LOL!  Thank you Peace in Steel Town,

I didn't take the car away on Father's Day.  She didn't need it, so it was a moot point.  But I agree.  I have tried to never make threats I wasn't fully willing to carry out.  We've been having these random power struggles since she was little.  She knows I'll follow through with my threats, but she usually misunderstands the consequence and thinks she's being punished for something other than the intended reason.  I'm still learning about BPD, but she definitely misunderstands a LOT.

Tonight, DH and I will be giving her a revised list of our expectations & limits.  In exchange for good attitude and doing what's expected, she can earn use of the car, cell phone, iPad, & internet.  We used to give her allowance, but now that she's working, that carries no weight.  Time to make adjustments.

I do want to set her up for success.  Expecting her to help with kitchen chores after she's been bussing tables and washing dishes all day may be more than she can handle.  To hear her talk about her job, you'd think she's been doing it for 30 years already, not 4 days.  So, I'm open to have her do other chores to help the family, as long as she does them.  Doing more laundry, washing cars, gassing up cars, etc.   I've tried to set her up to succeed in every way I can think of and she still manages to F*** it up. 

I feel like we're walking on a tight rope because she wants to move across the country to live with her BF who just moved away.  I'm afraid if we set boundaries too firmly, she'll bolt.  But, we can't let her run wild and free and trample all over us either.  I'm always humbled by my DD.  I try to set her up to win and she sets me up to fail.  Geez!

[peace in steel town]

How did you make out with your revised list of rules and limits? Once you set up those limits, you have to stick to them, or she will slowly push those limits as far as she can. Good luck on her wanting to move away to live with her boyfriend. If she is anything like our dd, she will bolt if there is a power struggle that she thinks she can win by running away, and that can get really ugly if things don't work out for her.   

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Peace in Steel Town,

I already posted my response once today, but for some reason, it isn't here now, so maybe the post didn't send?  2nd time that's happened.  (No idea why. Oh well.)

THANK YOU for checking up on me!  I have nothing to report yet, as DH met with our therapist about this and the immediate plan is for DH to do all disciplinary interactions with DD.  I'm "out of the loop" and I'm grateful.  DH means well, but he usually sits passively when we have family meetings, so now it's MY turn to sit passively and let DH handle things.  It's high time he stepped up to the plate.

With that said, I think I had some Divine intervention because I got an idea that I think will work with DH and DD.  DH is an engineer and he is positively OCD at work about following Policies & Procedures, Quality Standards, and Human Resource practices.  At home, it's another story.  He's too passive and he doesn't help enforce whatever behavior chart, chores lists, or other limits and boundaries I set up. That makes me the "heavy" all the time, and doesn't help the relationship with my DD.  So, to get DH's "buy in" I suggested that HE make a family Policy & Procedures Document, Family Quality Standards, and HR techniques & protocol to deal with our DD.  I saw the light bulb come on in his head.  He hasn't written anything yet, but I know he's thinking about it, which is a start.  Nothing happens fast with him.  -sigh--

I agree with you that the minute DD turns 18, a single power struggle may cause her to flee.  And the idea scares me because her behavior shows me on a daily basis that she won't make it on her own yet. She has AD/HD, and there is definitely a developmental lag in her executive function.  Can't spend time worrying about the future though.  Dealing with the NOW seems to help.

The good news is, DH had a long talk with her about how important it is that she be on equal footing with her BF when she moves out.  He explained that she'll need her own apartment, car, income, etc.  Whatever he said got through to her, at least for now.  It's frustrating because I was trying to explain the same thing to her.



 

[peace in steel town]

So, how is dh coming on his list of house rules? It's not rocket science, do unto others as you would be done by. Nobody wants to drive home from work with knots in your stomach, fearful of the drama you will face when you walk in the door, been there. And once he makes the rules, he has to back you up, no waffling. As far as dd is concerned, if she is ssssoo tired from work, that she can't carry a couple of extra plates into the kitchen, for fear of collapsing from sheer exhaustion, then she should have gone to bed and not joined dinner at all. Better still, go see a doctor.

[Rapt Reader]

With that said, I think I had some Divine intervention because I got an idea that I think will work with DH and DD.  DH is an engineer and he is positively OCD at work about following Policies & Procedures, Quality Standards, and Human Resource practices.  At home, it's another story.  He's too passive and he doesn't help enforce whatever behavior chart, chores lists, or other limits and boundaries I set up. That makes me the "heavy" all the time, and doesn't help the relationship with my DD.  So, to get DH's "buy in" I suggested that HE make a family Policy & Procedures Document, Family Quality Standards, and HR techniques & protocol to deal with our DD.  I saw the light bulb come on in his head.  He hasn't written anything yet, but I know he's thinking about it, which is a start.  Nothing happens fast with him.  -sigh--

I agree with you that the minute DD turns 18, a single power struggle may cause her to flee.  And the idea scares me because her behavior shows me on a daily basis that she won't make it on her own yet. She has AD/HD, and there is definitely a developmental lag in her executive function.  Can't spend time worrying about the future though.  Dealing with the NOW seems to help.

The good news is, DH had a long talk with her about how important it is that she be on equal footing with her BF when she moves out.  He explained that she'll need her own apartment, car, income, etc.  Whatever he said got through to her, at least for now.  It's frustrating because I was trying to explain the same thing to her.

That sounds like a great plan, HealingSpirit 

Have things settled down a little after that long talk? I find that the parent who has the best way of navigating the minefield of our child's emotions, should be the one taking the lead... . Sometimes that could be you, sometimes that could be your Husband, depending on the situation. I think your insights into this were great! Good job... .

[HealingSpirit]

Thank you Peace in Steel Town for checking up on us ,

You're helping me keep my DH accountable.  One of the challenges we have in our marriage is DH is full of "inertia" (potential energy - LOL!).  He is like a boulder sitting at the top of the hill.  It's very hard to get him moving, but once he does, he hyper-focuses until the job is finished.  (Also, "challenges" is my more positive synonym for "things that really piss me off."  So, here we are almost 2 weeks later and we STILL have no clear, written list.  I have checked in with him about it and he says, "I'm thinking about it."  I've been thinking about it too, as I think of situations that need to be included. 

For example, now that she's driving, but we still pay her insurance, if she gets a speeding ticket, we will stop paying for her insurance if the rates go up.  (Not fair for US to suffer the consequences of behavior she can prevent.)  I know we can't think of every scenario ahead of time, but the more she knows what the consequences are beforehand, the less arguing she can do if/when the situation does arise.  At least in theory, right?  (I'm counting on that helping.)

I agree with you 100% --writing out house rules and consequences is not rocket science!  But for an actual rocket scientist (or engineer in my case) it must seem like writing in Chinese.  DH has Aspergers, so his interpersonal and emotional skills are limited. It's probably time for me to set a deadline where if he hasn't finished it, HE gets a consequence. LOL!  The PLAN really needs to come from DH this time.  I can't tell you how many times I've set up rules and consequences, only to have them ignored.

For now, I'm working on changing MY skills and backing off our DD a lot.  It's helping keep the peace.  She still leaves her dirty dishes and drink bottles everywhere, and her room is a toxic waste dump (so is her car), but that's easier to live with then power struggles and rages.  On one hand, it feels like I'm letting her win and get away with murder.  On the other hand, I'm really beginning to see that when EVERYTHING LITTLE THING becomes a battle, it is less stressful to let most of them go. At least for now.  And she HAS been coming home by curfew and mostly letting me know when she comes & goes, so I'm counting my blessings.  Things could be a lot worse.

Our T has been telling me this for years, but it took coming to this site and reading other people's stories that drove the concept home for me.  So, I'm backing WAY off and concentrating on listening and validating, rather than her compliance.  So far, she hasn't attacked me once since I started backing off about a week ago.  That is HUGE progress for us!  Gotta celebrate the small things.  We've gone a week without an outburst, which is a new record for us.

Thanks again for helping keep me accountable.  It goes against my character to be so passive (for lack of a better term) but it is working... . for now.

Rapt Reader,

Thank you for your pat on the back!  I still feel very fragile in dealing with DD, so it feels great to get validation from you.  It's a big part of why I come to this board!

And you are absolutely right that the situation dictates which one of us steps forward!  Just had a perfect example last night... .   DD was driving home from a friend's house and she got lost.  The navigation in her phone failed, she got confused and started to panic, so she called home.  DH started asking her what street she was on and she didn't know.  He got frustrated & started yelling at her, which only increased her anxiety. Meanwhile, I opened up "Google maps" and asked him to give the phone back to me.  I reassured her that I would stay on the phone with her until she knew her way home.  I asked her to pull out of the parking lot where she was and drive to the nearest intersection and tell me the street names.  She did, and I was able to navigate her back to the freeway without any trouble.  She got home 20 minutes later in a good mood.  WHEW!  She also learned the hard way WHY I asked her to please drive home before dark last night.  Good ol' natural consequences!

I really felt like telling her, "See?  This is exactly why I asked you to come home before dark."  But I kept my mouth shut.  Today, we just had the first fun, peaceful day we've had together in years.  Progress, not perfection!