Rings of power

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My wife has been wielding her rings in a manner that makes me wonder what she is thinking.  Anyone else I would just ask, but that would be oh so much fun with her! 

The first recent incident was more blatant and can be found here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=227341.msg12448526.  In that case, she handed me her rings to hold onto, otherwise, she may do something drastic.  As usual, she comes at me (shame tactics) after a counseling session.  I was amused (not on my face) that she mentioned being single would allow her to have or desire sex without guilt.  Uh-huh.  Sex has not been very often due to her for most of the marriage.  However, for nearly a year, I have declined sex to remove that weapon against me.  Anyway, she decided after going to church without her rings, which I had left on my desk, that it felt weird not to wear them outside the house.

Last week, she seemed to test herself by going on a few short trips out of the house to take our son to daycare without her rings.  On longer trips, she did wear them.  The first time out of the house without them she said she had forgotten them upstairs and already had her shoes on.  She asked if it was OK since it was short.  I said sure.  I had been getting on my feet to fetch them when she said that.  For three days, she did not wear them.  I pretended not to notice.  I was not sure if it was bait for another argument or if she was testing herself.

Has anyone else experienced this or similar behavior?

[Zon]

My wife has been wielding her rings in a manner that makes me wonder what she is thinking.  Anyone else I would just ask, but that would be oh so much fun with her! 

The first recent incident was more blatant and can be found here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=227341.msg12448526.  In that case, she handed me her rings to hold onto, otherwise, she may do something drastic.  As usual, she comes at me (shame tactics) after a counseling session.  I was amused (not on my face) that she mentioned being single would allow her to have or desire sex without guilt.  Uh-huh.  Sex has not been very often due to her for most of the marriage.  However, for nearly a year, I have declined sex to remove that weapon against me.  Anyway, she decided after going to church without her rings, which I had left on my desk, that it felt weird not to wear them outside the house.

Last week, she seemed to test herself by going on a few short trips out of the house to take our son to daycare without her rings.  On longer trips, she did wear them.  The first time out of the house without them she said she had forgotten them upstairs and already had her shoes on.  She asked if it was OK since it was short.  I said sure.  I had been getting on my feet to fetch them when she said that.  For three days, she did not wear them.  I pretended not to notice.  I was not sure if it was bait for another argument or if she was testing herself.

Has anyone else experienced this or similar behavior?

[tbddbt]

My wife throws her ring to the ground (or at me) when she's mad, which is quite often. She also goes out to bars and to work without wearing a ring and lies to me about it.

[peiper]

Very much so. I lost my ring in the house for about a week and told her. She got ticked off and took hers off saying se wasnt wearing hers until I found and wore mine. I told her I didnt do it on purpose, that didnt matter.

[Soccerchic]

Weirdly my husband never wore his. I don't fear cheating. He is just that inconsiderate.  I feel embarrassed but when we purchased my wedding ring he was in a mood and picked a fight only to apologize by buying a big ring that was supposed to have the diamond replaced - it was a cz in a nice setting meant as a diamond place holder.  He never did it. I stopped wearing it and picked a ring I bought on my own. I feel like such a loser settling. I thought I was attractive and smart and settled for this. My self esteem really couldn't be lower now. My work is even effected.  However, I stopped wearing my ring and he doesn't seem to be bothered by it. He is so engulfed by his own moods and issues I am simply a receptacle for his projected self.

[imstronghere2]

Has anyone else experienced this or similar behavior?

Toward the end, when what I know now was when she had already decided to leave us, my exwBPD quit wearing her rings.  She had her excuses of course and I should have seen that as a HUGE  but I stayed in denial.  It was all so she could get more attention, just in case the rings MIGHT fend off an otherwise welcomed suitor.   

I personally can't stand jewelry.  I've hated it all my life.  I tried very hard to wear my wedding ring the first few years but finally gave up on it.  The ring itself will not stop the person from cheating.  It's a sign to the world that you're married but my sign was implanted deeply inside of me.  I didn't need a ring to know that I was married and to act accordingly.

But then, I'm not BPD either.

I would be very concerned if I was you.

[HopefulDad]

My wife took off her wedding ring, said we're done.  I was devastated.  She eventually put it back on.

My wife took off her wedding ring again, said we're done again.  I told her this time it must be serious because she did it again.  Eventually she put it back on after we smoothed things over.

Then there was the third time.  I think this time she threw it at me in a rage.

Then the fourth.  When we finally smoothed things over this time, I got down on a knee, "proposed" to her by saying something like, "No matter how angry we get with each other, this symbolizes our love and commitment to work things out."  She was touched, got all teary and really loved the gesture.

Then the fifth time happened.  When we finally worked things out again, I think she was expecting a similar response to the last time.  Instead I just handed her the ring and with clear disapproval in my voice said, "Please don't do that again."

Then the sixth time.

And then the seventh (and final) time.  I still have the ring as we're separated.

I know every situation is different and when I've told my story to others IRL, they immediately think she's planning on cheating on me or something similar.  That's usually after the first one or two times it happens.  After a few more, it comes across as she's playing head games to those unfamiliar with BPD.

In your particular situation, I do not know what her motives are.  She could simply be acting like my wife.  Or she could be looking to do something that really violates your marriage.  I do understand your concern because the first time it happened, I was deeply emotionally hurt and afraid of what she would do without me aware.

[Forestaken]

My wife throws her ring to the ground (or at me) when she's mad, which is quite often. She also goes out to bars and to work without wearing a ring and lies to me about it.

My Xw threw her wedding ring in a public trash can (public park) and made me look for it.

It never left her hand.

[Zon]

Has anyone else experienced this or similar behavior?

Toward the end, when what I know now was when she had already decided to leave us, my exwBPD quit wearing her rings.  She had her excuses of course and I should have seen that as a HUGE  but I stayed in denial.  It was all so she could get more attention, just in case the rings MIGHT fend off an otherwise welcomed suitor.   

I really doubt she would cheat on me as she made it sound that she would divorce me first, so she could have a relationship with someone more intimate (like I used to be with her).  Probably, more intimate until she breaks him too.

I personally can't stand jewelry.  I've hated it all my life.  I tried very hard to wear my wedding ring the first few years but finally gave up on it.  The ring itself will not stop the person from cheating.  It's a sign to the world that you're married but my sign was implanted deeply inside of me.  I didn't need a ring to know that I was married and to act accordingly.

But then, I'm not BPD either.

I would be very concerned if I was you.

She and I both do not like to wear rings at home but do outside the house.  It took a long time to get used to a ring as I do not wear jewelry otherwise.

I would be very concerned if the threat of divorce was new.  Now, I am pretty desensitized yet still puzzled by it.  Hence, I am in the undecided category.  I would be sad yet relieved if she left me.

[Zon]

My wife took off her wedding ring, said we're done.  I was devastated.  She eventually put it back on.

My wife took off her wedding ring again, said we're done again.  I told her this time it must be serious because she did it again.  Eventually she put it back on after we smoothed things over.

Then there was the third time.  I think this time she threw it at me in a rage.

Then the fourth.  When we finally smoothed things over this time, I got down on a knee, "proposed" to her by saying something like, "No matter how angry we get with each other, this symbolizes our love and commitment to work things out."  She was touched, got all teary and really loved the gesture.

Then the fifth time happened.  When we finally worked things out again, I think she was expecting a similar response to the last time.  Instead I just handed her the ring and with clear disapproval in my voice said, "Please don't do that again."

Then the sixth time.

And then the seventh (and final) time.  I still have the ring as we're separated.

How did that go?  She threw them in rage and what transpired?

I know every situation is different and when I've told my story to others IRL, they immediately think she's planning on cheating on me or something similar.  That's usually after the first one or two times it happens.  After a few more, it comes across as she's playing head games to those unfamiliar with BPD.

I am somewhat familiar with BPD, yet it could still be a head game.  She is about control.  It is a good way to control, at least, a few times.  After that, not so much.

In your particular situation, I do not know what her motives are.  She could simply be acting like my wife.  Or she could be looking to do something that really violates your marriage.  I do understand your concern because the first time it happened, I was deeply emotionally hurt and afraid of what she would do without me aware.

This is not the first time her rings or our marriage was brought up, so I am not hurt by it.  However, I feel like I need to be prepared for whatever is coming next.

[HopefulDad]

How did that go?  She threw them in rage and what transpired?

Just a more forceful way of her returning her ring than the other ways.  Nothing more, really.

We're on our 2nd MC and I've raised the "returning rings 7 times" issue to help paint the picture of what is going on here.  Our previous MC already diagnosed her with BPD.  Since marriage counseling really isn't effective to anyone with a personality disorder, I'm hoping to get a 2nd BPD diagnosis out of this.  Between the rings and the other incidents that we've told in therapy, I think that diagnosis is coming sometime this summer.

[HopefulDad]

My wife throws her ring to the ground (or at me) when she's mad, which is quite often. She also goes out to bars and to work without wearing a ring and lies to me about it.

My Xw threw her wedding ring in a public trash can (public park) and made me look for it.

It never left her hand.

Years ago this one would have really riled me up.  If this happened today, I'd just walk away.  If she countered with, "Aren't you going to look for my ring?"  I'd respond, "No.  You threw it, you can go find it."

[Zon]

How did that go?  She threw them in rage and what transpired?

Just a more forceful way of her returning her ring than the other ways.  Nothing more, really.

We're on our 2nd MC and I've raised the "returning rings 7 times" issue to help paint the picture of what is going on here.  Our previous MC already diagnosed her with BPD.  Since marriage counseling really isn't effective to anyone with a personality disorder, I'm hoping to get a 2nd BPD diagnosis out of this.  Between the rings and the other incidents that we've told in therapy, I think that diagnosis is coming sometime this summer.

I am also in MC (1st).  How long before the counselor diagnosed her?  My wife seems to have enough NPD to hide behind, so I am curious how long or what triggers worked to show the counselor?  Also, I cannot tell if he understands that she is not typical.  Maybe, my own issues are more obvious to work with.

[HopefulDad]

How did that go?  She threw them in rage and what transpired?

Just a more forceful way of her returning her ring than the other ways.  Nothing more, really.

We're on our 2nd MC and I've raised the "returning rings 7 times" issue to help paint the picture of what is going on here.  Our previous MC already diagnosed her with BPD.  Since marriage counseling really isn't effective to anyone with a personality disorder, I'm hoping to get a 2nd BPD diagnosis out of this.  Between the rings and the other incidents that we've told in therapy, I think that diagnosis is coming sometime this summer.

I am also in MC (1st).  How long before the counselor diagnosed her?  My wife seems to have enough NPD to hide behind, so I am curious how long or what triggers worked to show the counselor?  Also, I cannot tell if he understands that she is not typical.  Maybe, my own issues are more obvious to work with.

I'm not sure how long it took before he diagnosed her.  He did say something that she clearly showed signs early on in therapy.  He didn't reveal his diagnosis to me until my wife stopped attending sessions and until I asked, "Is there anything wrong with me or her that you can share?"

I should note that he's trained in DBT and is keenly aware to notice such signs.

[Forestaken]

My wife throws her ring to the ground (or at me) when she's mad, which is quite often. She also goes out to bars and to work without wearing a ring and lies to me about it.

My Xw threw her wedding ring in a public trash can (public park) and made me look for it.

It never left her hand.

Years ago this one would have really riled me up.  If this happened today, I'd just walk away.  If she countered with, "Aren't you going to look for my ring?"  I'd respond, "No.  You threw it, you can go find it."

She became my Xw

[HopefulDad]

My wife throws her ring to the ground (or at me) when she's mad, which is quite often. She also goes out to bars and to work without wearing a ring and lies to me about it.

My Xw threw her wedding ring in a public trash can (public park) and made me look for it.

It never left her hand.

Years ago this one would have really riled me up.  If this happened today, I'd just walk away.  If she countered with, "Aren't you going to look for my ring?"  I'd respond, "No.  You threw it, you can go find it."

She became my Xw

Yeah, mine's on her way to that, too, at the rate we're going.

[Soccerchic]

I stopped wearing my wedding ring a little bit before I found this site.  He would never wear his claiming hating to wear jewelry.  After the most recent back and forth dramalogue I just stopped. It may seem childish but I stopped wanting to "belong" to him.  Ironically my son found his ring at the bottom of a kiddie pool when the bath toys were dumped out. In typical fashion as soon as I pulled away/ shut down/ don't want to sleep with him he has begun to consistently wear his ring.  This is such a mind "f".  I don't get it. Why does it take me giving up for him to wield his ring of power holding onto it like gollum - my precious.  He is overly sweet and nice acting in all the ways I always wanted now that I'm almost done.  Aaarrgggh. Help. I'm being sucked back in the emotional riptide. How can I tell real change vs recycling. 

On a side note, I know a lot of friends who have thrown their rings in anger. It's the female equivalent of flipping her husband off ie giving him the ring finger. They weren't BPD but just needed their husband to appreciate them. I guess with BPD it's reenacted over and over?

[Zon]

We're on our 2nd MC and I've raised the "returning rings 7 times" issue to help paint the picture of what is going on here.  Our previous MC already diagnosed her with BPD.  Since marriage counseling really isn't effective to anyone with a personality disorder, I'm hoping to get a 2nd BPD diagnosis out of this.  Between the rings and the other incidents that we've told in therapy, I think that diagnosis is coming sometime this summer.

I am also in MC (1st).  How long before the counselor diagnosed her?  My wife seems to have enough NPD to hide behind, so I am curious how long or what triggers worked to show the counselor?  Also, I cannot tell if he understands that she is not typical.  Maybe, my own issues are more obvious to work with.

I'm not sure how long it took before he diagnosed her.  He did say something that she clearly showed signs early on in therapy.  He didn't reveal his diagnosis to me until my wife stopped attending sessions and until I asked, "Is there anything wrong with me or her that you can share?"

I should note that he's trained in DBT and is keenly aware to notice such signs.

Our counselor is trained in EFT, but I am not sure how well it covers her.  He has said to her, with me there, that she has some deeper issue.  My own therapist has said that a lot of counselors may focus on the person that is more willing to accept change at the start of counseling.  They then go after the more difficult person with the other person more stable.

I just need the counseling to stop to learn what he thinks.    Catch-22.

[Zon]

I stopped wearing my wedding ring a little bit before I found this site.  He would never wear his claiming hating to wear jewelry.  After the most recent back and forth dramalogue I just stopped. It may seem childish but I stopped wanting to "belong" to him.  Ironically my son found his ring at the bottom of a kiddie pool when the bath toys were dumped out. In typical fashion as soon as I pulled away/ shut down/ don't want to sleep with him he has begun to consistently wear his ring.  This is such a mind "f".  I don't get it. Why does it take me giving up for him to wield his ring of power holding onto it like gollum - my precious.  He is overly sweet and nice acting in all the ways I always wanted now that I'm almost done.  Aaarrgggh. Help. I'm being sucked back in the emotional riptide. How can I tell real change vs recycling.

That does not sound like fun.  I also shut down and no longer sleep with her due to her treatment of me.  Now, she is nicer and more considerate (to a point) to me.  Children are the next targets.

I will let you know about what is real change once I learn it myself.  The only suggestion I have is to observe how they treat others.  They may be sweeter with you, but others may get the old treatment or worse because they are the new outlets.

On a side note, I know a lot of friends who have thrown their rings in anger. It's the female equivalent of flipping her husband off ie giving him the ring finger. They weren't BPD but just needed their husband to appreciate them. I guess with BPD it's reenacted over and over?

I guess it is.  She did it because I would not just flat out agree with her.  I even said that I understood and agreed with her once I understood where the confusion was.  That was not enough for her.  How many wives throw/return/place in their husband's hands their rings AFTER the husband agrees with them?

[Soccerchic]

Yeah. That's a head scratcher. I would think the fight being over aka you agreeing would be the end and the rings would slide back on. However, I have noticed a weird tendency for my husband to agree but then recycle the same argument like he hadn't agreed at all. It's like temporary manipulative amnesia. I can never trust the fight to be over. Some one sent me a link about how to not fight. I am trying it out. Arguing is pointless and doesn't lead to a mutual understanding. I'm

Curious if you have dealt with this.  I'm so frustrated to because I am always attracted to him no matter how horrible he acts. That in itself is super duper embarrassing and sucks me in to premature reconciliation(no pun intended).

[Zon]

Yeah. That's a head scratcher. I would think the fight being over aka you agreeing would be the end and the rings would slide back on. However, I have noticed a weird tendency for my husband to agree but then recycle the same argument like he hadn't agreed at all. It's like temporary manipulative amnesia. I can never trust the fight to be over. Some one sent me a link about how to not fight. I am trying it out. Arguing is pointless and doesn't lead to a mutual understanding. I'm

Curious if you have dealt with this.  I'm so frustrated to because I am always attracted to him no matter how horrible he acts. That in itself is super duper embarrassing and sucks me in to premature reconciliation(no pun intended).

I resorted to not fighting but not necessarily agreeing with things except for this occasion.  Children running around and her seeing something that I was unable to see from where I stood made for a crazy situation.

However, she has gotten upset with me for not reacting more than just nodding, making acknowledging sounds or few word responses of acknowledgment to her complaints.  It is almost as if she wants me to make a longer comment for her to attack.

Sadly, the fight is never over.  At least, her main issues with me are never forgotten.  No need for me to remember them (and apologize again) with an elephant and its memory power in the room.  I was a different person 11 years ago, and that person was not all that bad.  I did not do enough chores back then.  Over the years, I have done more and more, but that memory is still in her.  That is in spite of the fact that she got angry with me for not doing chores while actually doing those very chores.  She killed the desire for me to clean.  Now, I do many chores inside the house and outside plus work full time.  I have received complaints about not doing enough chores, which happened to be inside the house.  Oops.  Sorry.  I was pulling weeds out of the flower gardens, so I could not do the other items.  OK.  Enough ranting by me.